On 1/4/2017 at 10:39 PM, clickyclick said:

I'd like to move to Thailand for 6 months to a year just to avoid the winter and spring here.

 

I'd recommend avoiding the hassle of METV -- just get the SETV before leaving home, extend it, leave Thailand after 90 days, then get a second SETV. That's based on your preference of staying here 6 months out of the year. I got my most recent SETV in Hong Kong -- the most efficient Thai government office I've ever seen, minimal hassle, and I also happen to like Hong Kong. If I were in your situation, I'd get the second SETV there... and break up the trip with a week in Hong Kong for a little change of pace, then fly back to Thailand :-)

 

Another option I've heard of -- yesterday, I met a US citizen who comes and goes more frequently, but ends up spending about 4-6 months per year in Thailand. He never bothers with a visa at all, only visa exempt entries, and he's older than 50... told me he's never had a problem entering the country -- more than twice per year.

 

Good luck!

2 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

 

Ah this continual red herring.. Immigration is not responsible for labor law.. Asking immigration about work issues is like asking your mechanic about a root canal, unlikely to get correct or accurate advice. 

 

What was said was along the lines of 'we are not bothered about that' which, considering immigration isnt responsible for it, makes perfect sense. This was an informal Q&A session putting a immigration officer on the spot requiring an answer, he didnt say 'it is legal' as stated without quotes there, he simply said, 'not our responsibility / concern'. A very different thing. 

 

See the constant and clear statements by labor officers on the subject.. Statements which state clearly that online work for non Thai clients is still work requiring a work permit, even uploading a blog post to a monetized blog or youtube account from within the kingdom is working. 

There is nothing murky about the law, only the practical difficulties of enforcing the law. 

But it is immigration's responsibility to check that visa rules are not being broken.

 

The last statement that I can remember was that, at present, digital nomads will be able to continue what they are doing. There was also a mention that there may be a new visa category for such people.

On ‎05‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 1:30 PM, yellowboat said:

Or you can work in Cambodia without the slightest bit of trouble.  Working here is not an issue at all.  Thailand a good place to start for the less initiated. 

and then go to Thailand every week to do your shopping or see a proper doctor

3 hours ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

Surely then the most straightforward, succinct and informative response to the OP would have been something along the lines of "The visa is irrelevant. Immigration don't care if you're a digital nomad. The department that does care is the Labor Department, so it's a matter of getting caught by them. Shut your mouth, shut your door and you should be fine"

 

Exactly.. 

 

I have no real issue with people breaking the law.. Its their choice.. I do take issue when people spread miss information.. 

1 hour ago, puchooay said:

But it is immigration's responsibility to check that visa rules are not being broken.

 

The last statement that I can remember was that, at present, digital nomads will be able to continue what they are doing. There was also a mention that there may be a new visa category for such people.

 

1) Well visa rules are being broken if they applied for a tourist visa.. They specifically signed a form agreeing not to work.. However basically you are correct, the laws which are broken are not the visa laws, rather the labor laws. 

 

2) Do you have a link saying where a new visa category was being considered.. Not only have I not seen anything, it would open a huge can of worms for a labor department who would have no way to verify income declarations and hence taxes (which is why they demand you work for a Thai company).

9 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Do you have a link saying where a new visa category was being considered

Maybe this, " A long-discussed plan to offer five-year visas for foreigners was floated again Tuesday by the nation’s top tourism official." http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/2016/10/26/tourism-minister-talks-5-year-visas/

Although this may not be a new idea (2004): http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/22763-new-5-years-visas-for-long-term-residents/

 

 

58 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Maybe this, " A long-discussed plan to offer five-year visas for foreigners was floated again Tuesday by the nation’s top tourism official." http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/2016/10/26/tourism-minister-talks-5-year-visas/

Although this may not be a new idea (2004): http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/22763-new-5-years-visas-for-long-term-residents/

 

 

 

No hint of any right to work though as claimed  "digital nomads will be able to continue what they are doing. There was also a mention that there may be a new visa category for such people"

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

2) Do you have a link saying where a new visa category was being considered.. Not only have I not seen anything, it would open a huge can of worms for a labor department who would have no way to verify income declarations and hence taxes (which is why they demand you work for a Thai company).

 

I have never seen anything of this sort floated in Thailand, though it does exist in the Philippines. 

 

The solution for the labor and tax issues would be to allow those who only obtain working-income only from abroad, to obtain a permission-of-stay for a fee (maybe 10K or 20K Baht / yr), and this would only remain valid while they pay tax on a set minimum amount per quarter.  Failure to pay the taxes would cancel one's permission-of-stay, same as one's permission-of-stay based on working is voided the day a foreigner loses their Thai job.

 

The only from abroad is important for two reasons in this context:

• No Thai customers, so not competing with Thai businesses any more than if living in one's passport-country, or Cambodia, Vietnam, etc.
• No Thai liabilities, so no need to register capital in Thailand to offset them.

I would not hold my breath, though.

2 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

 

1) Well visa rules are being broken if they applied for a tourist visa.. They specifically signed a form agreeing not to work.. However basically you are correct, the laws which are broken are not the visa laws, rather the labor laws. 

 

2) Do you have a link saying where a new visa category was being considered.. Not only have I not seen anything, it would open a huge can of worms for a labor department who would have no way to verify income declarations and hence taxes (which is why they demand you work for a Thai company).

I don't have a link. It was in the Bangkok post. It was shortly after the online teachers were busted in ChiangMai. They were not digital nomads as they were working in Thailand and receiving Thai Baht. This event did however lead on to discussions about the matter.

 

The immigration chief explained that there was a need for something to be done with regards to facilitating digital nomads. He admitted that neighbouring countries allow this and Thailand should look into it. He also said that immigration law, yes indeed immigration law, was very vague on the matter.

 

As an aside...if your visa says "employment prohibited" and you work then surely immigration laws have been broken.

 

 

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

 

I have never seen anything of this sort floated in Thailand, though it does exist in the Philippines. 

 

The solution for the labor and tax issues would be to allow those who only obtain working-income only from abroad, to obtain a permission-of-stay for a fee (maybe 10K or 20K Baht / yr), and this would only remain valid while they pay tax on a set minimum amount per quarter.  Failure to pay the taxes would cancel one's permission-of-stay, same as one's permission-of-stay based on working is voided the day a foreigner loses their Thai job.

 

But in this situation.. How do they police the declarations.. You could make a million usd a year, and declare 2000.. As they have no access to company records, for revenue, salary etc.. Its a huge black hole.. 

 

Surely you cant expect them to simply operate on trust ?? With no enforcement mechanism ??? 

1 minute ago, LivinLOS said:

Surely you cant expect them to simply operate on trust ?? With no enforcement mechanism ??? 

TIT

12 hours ago, clickyclick said:

Thanks for all the responses guys, I just have a further question...

If I organised an educational visa (as there are some legitimate courses I could complete in Thailand that would be genuinely profitable to my education) does that make the situation even murkier than working on a Tourist visa?

IMO it does. Thai authorities clearly, by their inaction, have no problem with 'tourists' keeping up with their work while holidaying in Thailand, and the few comments coming from immigration or department of labour representatives, although not formal announcements, backs that up. As long as you have permission to stay on the basis of tourism they can't really prosecute otherwise they would have to prosecute millions of tourists.

 

If you enter using a Non-Immigrant visa, for a reason other than tourism, you cannot claim to be a tourist and it opens a whole new can of worms.

21 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

But in this situation.. How do they police the declarations.. You could make a million usd a year, and declare 2000.. As they have no access to company records, for revenue, salary etc.. Its a huge black hole.. 

Thailand only taxes the income you bring into the country not all of it. Not hard to check for transfers into a bank account.

1 hour ago, puchooay said:

As an aside...if your visa says "employment prohibited" and you work then surely immigration laws have been broken.

 

For the purposes of this stamp prohibiting employment on the TR visa, 'employment' never has been and never will mean the same as 'work'. Thus the propagation of this famous grey area and frequent misinformation by people who chose to argue that if something is not specifically stated as prohibited (such as work), then it must be OK to work as they consider themselves for the most part to be 'self-employed'. It would be so much easier if the embassies and consulates replaced the word 'employment' with 'work' on their red stamps or even easier "Work and/or employment prohibited".

8 hours ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

Has this announcement been rescinded? https://asiancorrespondent.com/2014/08/thai-immigration-officials-say-digital-nomads-ok-to-work-on-tourist-visas/

That asiancorrespondent.com article misquotes the actual chianmaicitylife.com article that quotes an unnamed officer from Chiang Mai Immigration. However, the message was basically that anyone entering as a 'tourist' can work their remote business.

Quote; "What if I want to work in Thailand?"

"If you are a ‘digital nomad’ running your own business on the internet, the immigration office says you can do this on a tourist visa."  http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/new-visa-rules-explained/

 

Because Thailand doesn't currently have a published limit on the time one can spend in Thailand as a tourist a loophole exists that can be exploited by Digital Nomads and other remote workers.

The OP is from the UK so he would fill out the Tourist Visa application form at the Thai Embassy in London or Thai Consulate elsewhere which includes:

 

Purpose of Current Visit: _________________________

For Attention of Applicant:
I hereby confirm that the purpose of my visit to Thailand is already identified in this application form and the information given is correct and complete.

Signature..........................................................................................
Date...................................................................................................

 

So, as long as he says that the purpose of his current visit is that while in Thailand he intends to work remotely online for his large multinational employer, as he notes on Post #1, everything should be OK.

Edited January 7, 20179 yr by JLCrab

4 hours ago, JLCrab said:

The OP is from the UK so he would fill out the Tourist Visa application form at the Thai Embassy in London or Thai Consulate elsewhere which includes:

 

Purpose of Current Visit: _________________________

For Attention of Applicant:
I hereby confirm that the purpose of my visit to Thailand is already identified in this application form and the information given is correct and complete.

Signature..........................................................................................
Date...................................................................................................

 

So, as long as he says that the purpose of his current visit is that while in Thailand he intends to work remotely online for his large multinational employer, as he notes on Post #1, everything should be OK.

 

Why would this be ok? The Embassy would not write on the Tourist Visa that he intends to work remotely online so if by a slim chance he were to get caught what good would it do? It will not help him here

 

If anything they could refuse the visa as he will be stating he will be working and the Embassy will know that it is illegal to work on a TV

6 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

 

But in this situation.. How do they police the declarations.. You could make a million usd a year, and declare 2000.. As they have no access to company records, for revenue, salary etc.. Its a huge black hole.. 

 

Surely you cant expect them to simply operate on trust ?? With no enforcement mechanism ??? 

 

Thailand can either: collect significant visa-fees, plus taxes at a set-minimum, plus all the funds brought into the country and the economy with vat taxes on that - or: get nothing, because the remote-worker lives elsewhere and spends elsewhere.   Seems like a clear cut choice to me - all upside with no downside. 

5 hours ago, darrendsd said:

 

Why would this be ok? <snip>

If anything they could refuse the visa as he will be stating he will be working and the Embassy will know that it is illegal to work on a TV

You're  right -- he should just go ahead and sign where it says that he confirms that all the information given is complete and correct when it isn't.

5 hours ago, JackThompson said:

 

Thailand can either: collect significant visa-fees, plus taxes at a set-minimum, plus all the funds brought into the country and the economy with vat taxes on that - or: get nothing, because the remote-worker lives elsewhere and spends elsewhere.   Seems like a clear cut choice to me - all upside with no downside. 

The Thai MICT wants to:

4. Promote and support the development of personnel performing work concerned with information and communication technology and personnel of all sectors and divisions to be able to use information and communication technology efficiently. 
http://www.mict.go.th/view/10/home

A foreign person working alone on his computer even if for clients outside Thailand does nothing to promote this which is maybe why there are no incentives currently in place as per the above.

Edited January 7, 20179 yr by JLCrab

15 hours ago, elviajero said:

IMO it does. Thai authorities clearly, by their inaction, have no problem with 'tourists' keeping up with their work while holidaying in Thailand, and the few comments coming from immigration or department of labour representatives, although not formal announcements, backs that up.

 

Which statements from the department of labor are you referring to ?? 

4 hours ago, JLCrab said:

You're  right -- he should just go ahead and sign where it says that he confirms that all the information given is complete and correct when it isn't.

 

So do you really suggest that him stating that he will be working on his tourist visa application is a good option? Really?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

15 hours ago, elviajero said:

As long as you have permission to stay on the basis of tourism they can't really prosecute otherwise they would have to prosecute millions of tourists.

 

You mean like the people they prosecuted for working on a tourist visa recently working online (porn) ??

 

http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/chinese-porn-website-gang-arrested-at-faham-home/

 

Quote

Police raided a house being used by a group of Chinese nationals holding tourist visas as an illegal pornography website operation centre based in Thailand – a criminal offence under pornography laws and immigration laws.

 

Quote

 They will be charged under the Computer Crime Act BE 2550 for disseminating pornography from within the Kingdom, and for working without the correct visa and work permits.

 

Nomads keep repeating "but they havent arrested or charged anyone" when thats false. 

5 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

 

So do you really suggest that him stating that he will be working on his tourist visa application is a good option? Really?

It says that the information on the form you declare to be correct and complete. If you want to supply information and declare that it is correct and complete when it is not, that is up to you or him

Edited January 8, 20179 yr by JLCrab

I think this topic has run its course . Just another digital nomad topic which is one of dozens done on this forum.

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