Netanyahu calls for pardon of convicted soldier

[sanemax]

3 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

Yet the Prime Minister of the nation wants him pardoned? Is that 'one person' representative of a country? I think he is, that is why he holds the office of Prime Minister.

 

   Although, which other Country actually prosecutes its soldiers for killing terrorists?

[Morch]

3 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

Yet the Prime Minister of the nation wants him pardoned? Is that 'one person' representative of a country? I think he is, that is why he holds the office of Prime Minister.

 

Really? So does Trump represent all US citizens and the entirety of US society? Does the same go for each and every country? How about the Palestinians, then - is Abbas their "true" representative?

[stevenl]

10 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

These comments are no different than the usual stock nonsense brought up whenever anything to do with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict comes up. Most of the posters commenting in this manner single out Israel as if it's supposed to be the paragon of Western ideals. That's not so much an honest perception, but rather a set up for contrived failure.

 

Noticeably, whenever comparisons with other societies (or whatever generalization is used) aren't supportive of the criticism, they are dismissed and rejected as off topic. Not so when negative comparisons are used for further bashing.

"Most of the posters commenting in this manner single out Israel as if it's supposed to be the paragon of Western ideals. That's not so much an honest perception, but rather a set up for contrived failure."

That is the usual deflection and your opinion, but does not change the fact that Israel's behaviour is the way it is. And since we're not discussing the UN or any other nation here, this discussion is only about the attempts to pardon this soldier by some of Israel's most prominent citizens.

[Morch]

33 minutes ago, stevenl said:

"Most of the posters commenting in this manner single out Israel as if it's supposed to be the paragon of Western ideals. That's not so much an honest perception, but rather a set up for contrived failure."

That is the usual deflection and your opinion, but does not change the fact that Israel's behaviour is the way it is. And since we're not discussing the UN or any other nation here, this discussion is only about the attempts to pardon this soldier by some of Israel's most prominent citizens.

 

It is in no way a deflection. I would have no problems with posters wishing to comment thus, as long as they would not insist on framing their arguments in a way which rejects any comparisons not in line with their views. Doubt I was the one introducing comparisons to other countries, societies or Western ideals.

[Andaman Al]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

 

   Although, which other Country actually prosecutes its soldiers for killing terrorists?

The United Kingdom.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

It is in no way a deflection. I would have no problems with posters wishing to comment thus, as long as they would not insist on framing their arguments in a way which rejects any comparisons not in line with their views. Doubt I was the one introducing comparisons to other countries, societies or Western ideals.

And again deflections.

[Morch]

45 minutes ago, stevenl said:

And again deflections.

 

You compare Israel to other countries (or societies). When a different comparison is suggested, it is rejected. Who is deflecting?

[stevenl]

 
You compare Israel to other countries (or societies). When a different comparison is suggested, it is rejected. Who is deflecting?

No, I did not compare anything. You answered me and referred to others making statements in that answer.

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[Morch]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

No, I did not compare anything. You answered me and referred to others making statements in that answer.

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And you bring  up deflections?!

[Grouse]

I am reading Simon Sebag Montefiore's impressive tome: Jerusalem the biography amongst other sources of history and opinion. I expect to finish it this year and will then hand down my verdict on all of this ?

[stevenl]

 
And you bring  up deflections?!

I give up, no point discussing with someone who doesn't read posts.

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[sanemax]

2 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

The United Kingdom.

 

  Could you provide a link to UK soldiers who have been jailed for commuting crimes whilst serving in the army ?

[Rimmer]

An inflammatory troll post has been removed

[Morch]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

 

  Could you provide a link to UK soldiers who have been jailed for commuting crimes whilst serving in the army ?

 

2011 Helmand Province incident

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Helmand_Province_incident

[DaddyWarbucks]

It is no coincidence that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu - who was then followed by a slew of ministers and Knesset members - has called for a presidential pardon for Israeli soldier Elor Azaria.

This striking mobilization to exonerate Azaria, which cuts across party lines and includes MKs from Labor, should actually come as no surprise, since the desired pardon is not really about absolving one lone murderer, but rather an effort to vindicate Israel's 50 year occupation.

Consciously or unconsciously, each and every government official calling for such absolution understands that Azaria is in no way an aberration of Israel's occupation of Palestine, but a clear symptom of its very structure.

The bystanders are testimony to the structure's effect. The video released by the Israeli human rights organization B'Tselem first depicts al-Sharif lying on the ground, wounded, as scores of soldiers and settlers stand near his body chatting, talking on the phone and taking pictures. Several medics are at the scene, but they, too are oblivious to the injured Palestinian. Indeed one of these medics is the killer.

The laid-back everydayness of those standing just metres away from an execution can certainly be understood as a manifestation of what Hannah Arendt has called the "banality of evil." Yet, it also profoundly captures something crucial about the structure of Israel's colonial project.

[Morch]

40 minutes ago, DaddyWarbucks said:

It is no coincidence that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu - who was then followed by a slew of ministers and Knesset members - has called for a presidential pardon for Israeli soldier Elor Azaria.

This striking mobilization to exonerate Azaria, which cuts across party lines and includes MKs from Labor, should actually come as no surprise, since the desired pardon is not really about absolving one lone murderer, but rather an effort to vindicate Israel's 50 year occupation.

Consciously or unconsciously, each and every government official calling for such absolution understands that Azaria is in no way an aberration of Israel's occupation of Palestine, but a clear symptom of its very structure.

The bystanders are testimony to the structure's effect. The video released by the Israeli human rights organization B'Tselem first depicts al-Sharif lying on the ground, wounded, as scores of soldiers and settlers stand near his body chatting, talking on the phone and taking pictures. Several medics are at the scene, but they, too are oblivious to the injured Palestinian. Indeed one of these medics is the killer.

The laid-back everydayness of those standing just metres away from an execution can certainly be understood as a manifestation of what Hannah Arendt has called the "banality of evil." Yet, it also profoundly captures something crucial about the structure of Israel's colonial project.

 

Netanyahu hardly led the calls for pardon, but rather, was the one of those who followed suit. And like many of his fellow politicians, the motivations probably have more to do with pandering to voter base. The "profound" insight suggested sounds more like the opinions of the poster. 

[Andaman Al]

3 hours ago, sanemax said:

 

  Could you provide a link to UK soldiers who have been jailed for commuting crimes whilst serving in the army ?

 

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

2011 Helmand Province incident

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Helmand_Province_incident

 

There have been many. Why don't you just do some googling sanemax , it is easy.

 

Also this now rears its ugly head

 

Quote

After 44 years, hero ex-British Paras now aged 67 and 65 face murder charges for shooting IRA suspected killer dead
 

 

Former-British-soldiers-prosecuted-alleged-murder-Official-IRA-man-

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, Andaman Al said:

 

 

There have been many. Why don't you just do some googling sanemax , it is easy.

 

Also this now rears its ugly head

 

 

Former-British-soldiers-prosecuted-alleged-murder-Official-IRA-man-

 

  I did google but nothing came up .

One has been shown , which I accept .

Now you claim there are "many"

Please show the others .

P.S. the link that you provided is "facing prosecution"  , which is different to being jailed .

  So, please provide links to the "many" UK soldiers who have been jailed for killing terrorists

 

[Thorgal]

 

  I did google but nothing came up .

One has been shown , which I accept .

Now you claim there are "many"

Please show the others .

P.S. the link that you provided is "facing prosecution"  , which is different to being jailed .

  So, please provide links to the "many" UK soldiers who have been jailed for killing terrorists

 

http://www.stopwar.org.uk/index.php/news/1216-what-is-terrorism-and-who-are-the-real-terrorists-in-gaza

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-soldiers-face-prosecution-over-55-iraq-war-deaths-a6803211.html

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[sanemax]

1 minute ago, Thorgal said:

 

http://www.stopwar.org.uk/index.php/news/1216-what-is-terrorism-and-who-are-the-real-terrorists-in-gaza


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   That is the same soldier as preciously mentioned , or are you going to provide numerous reports of the same incident  and claim that that is many :)

[Thorgal]

 

   That is the same soldier as preciously mentioned , or are you going to provide numerous reports of the same incident  and claim that that is many :)

Quote from my previous link that you've deleted in your reply or ignored :

Dozens of cases in which British soldiers are accused of unlawfully killing Iraqi civilians have already been referred to prosecutors, The Independent can reveal, with more than 50 deaths set to be examined

p>"The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat) has sought advice from the Service Prosecuting Authority (SPA) on unlawful death cases involving 35 alleged killings, and 36 cases of alleged abuse and mistreatment, it can be disclosed."

"The SPA – the military equivalent of the Crown Prosecution Service – is preparing to advise on an additional 20 cases of unlawful killing and 71 cases of mistreatment in the near future."

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[sanemax]

42 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

Quote from my previous link that you've deleted in your reply or ignored :

Dozens of cases in which British soldiers are accused of unlawfully killing Iraqi civilians have already been referred to prosecutors, The Independent can reveal, with more than 50 deaths set to be examined

p>"The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat) has sought advice from the Service Prosecuting Authority (SPA) on unlawful death cases involving 35 alleged killings, and 36 cases of alleged abuse and mistreatment, it can be disclosed."

"The SPA – the military equivalent of the Crown Prosecution Service – is preparing to advise on an additional 20 cases of unlawful killing and 71 cases of mistreatment in the near future."

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Jeezz, We are NOT talking about possible prosecutions , we are talking about actual prosecutions, verdicts , found guilty and punished .

  We are talking about what has happened, rather than what may happen in the future .

  It was stated that "many" UK soldiers have been jailed for certain things , saying that they MAY be prosecuted for those certain things  isnt showing that they have been jailed !!!!!! 

[Andaman Al]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

 

Jeezz, We are NOT talking about possible prosecutions , we are talking about actual prosecutions, verdicts , found guilty and punished .

  We are talking about what has happened, rather than what may happen in the future .

  It was stated that "many" UK soldiers have been jailed for certain things , saying that they MAY be prosecuted for those certain things  isnt showing that they have been jailed !!!!!! 

Private Clegg 4 years wrongly jailed. There are more. Use google. I think the number of prosecutions now being undertaken is also an indicator. You asked "and what other country would jail its soldiers for killing terrorists", I answered - The United Kingdom.

[bandito]

23 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

Remember that society has nuclear weapons which makes the attitudes of the supporters of this soldier something you should be very afraid of.

.

Are you threatening? Tell the Iraeli PM personally, by phone or otherwise, he will surely appreciate it.

You think Israel is afraid of a bunch of Palestinian Arabs?

These two tried to murder Isreali soldiers and got what was coming to them and they knew it.

[Rimmer]

A personal attack and a couple of replies have been removed

[sanemax]

10 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

Private Clegg 4 years wrongly jailed. There are more. Use google. I think the number of prosecutions now being undertaken is also an indicator. You asked "and what other country would jail its soldiers for killing terrorists", I answered - The United Kingdom.

 

  Private Clegg had his conviction overturned .

You also stated that the UK has jailed "many" soldiers for killing terrorists .

I have searched google and only found ONE case .

You stated that there ere many others .

Possible future prosecutions do not count as "prosecuted and jailed"

[ilostmypassword]

7 hours ago, bandito said:

.

Are you threatening? Tell the Iraeli PM personally, by phone or otherwise, he will surely appreciate it.

 

These two tried to murder Isreali soldiers and got what was coming to them and they knew it.

How many times do you denialists have to be told before it sinks in.

The Israeli military court disagrees with you.

The Isreali military court disagrees with you.

The Israeli military court disagrees with you.

[bandito]

13 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

How many times do you denialists have to be told before it sinks in.

The Israeli military court disagrees with you.

The Isreali military court disagrees with you.

The Israeli military court disagrees with you.

 

67% of the Israeli population calls for a pardon of the soldier.

67% of the Israeli population disagrees with the militairy court.

How many times have you to be told that these 2 Palestinians tried to murder Israeli soldiers.

Why are you looking away from that?

[stevenl]

 
67% of the Israeli population calls for a pardon of the soldier.
67% of the Israeli population disagrees with the militairy court.
How many times have you to be told that these 2 Palestinians tried to murder Israeli soldiers.
Why are you looking away from that?

Doesn't matter what they were trying to do, an execution is not allowed.

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[Ulysses G.]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Doesn't matter what they were trying to do, an execution is not allowed.
 

 

But a pardon very well might be. The people of Israel understand why he was driven to commit a crime against someone who had just murdered his friends.