Refugees in Greece and Serbia forced to endure sub-zero temperatures

[DM07]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You appear to be talking about people seeking a better life by paying vile people traffickers to take them to rich countries in expectation of jobs etc.

The OP is about refugees, and your post is off topic.

 

BTW Saudi Arabia is not in a similar situation and is very rich. It is also culturally similar. Why do they not go there? 

Mostly because Saudi Arabia (as UAE among others) treat THEIR OWN way better than any foreigner.

Just do some research on the working conditions for low income jobs in Qatar (building the stadiums for the next football world cup) or the UAE (haven your passport taken away, basically being a slave at the mercy of your master).

Maybe YOU would like to work and live like that?

Many people still do, because it is STILL BETTER, than what they have at home!

[DavidVincent]

Just now, Shawn0000 said:

 

If that were the case then they would not on average succeed at a higher rate and raise children who do better on average at school, would they?   No, they would become the benefits class who are actually by a far higher ratio British born people.  Your imagination has gotten the better of you, the scrounges are the British, not the immigrants.  The immigrants pay far higher taxes than they take back in benefits and help feed the British benefits scrounges.

Impossible to make them understand the basic of economy and how the movement of money is what help them stay afloat

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, DM07 said:

Mostly because Saudi Arabia (as UAE among others) treat THEIR OWN way better than any foreigner.

Just do some research on the working conditions for low income jobs in Qatar (building the stadiums for the next football world cup) or the UAE (haven your passport taken away, basically being a slave at the mercy of your master).

Maybe YOU would like to work and live like that?

Many people still do, because it is STILL BETTER, than what they have at home!

So, why do you apparently think that Europeans are obligated to give them a better life than they would get in Saudi? Just curious.

[DavidVincent]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

So, why do you apparently think that Europeans are obligated to give them a better life than they would get in Saudi? Just curious.

One more time : Sunni and Shia

[Shawn0000]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You appear to be talking about people seeking a better life by paying vile people traffickers to take them to rich countries in expectation of jobs etc.

The OP is about refugees, and your post is off topic.

 

BTW Saudi Arabia is not in a similar situation and is very rich. It is also culturally similar. Why do they not go there? 

 

They do, Saudi took 2.5 million refugees, people in the UK are moaning about a pledge to take 20,000 over the next 4 years, and they feel the need to lie about how many other countries have taken in attempt to take the attention away from their own lack of humanity, shameful stuff.

[Shawn0000]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

So, why do you apparently think that Europeans are obligated to give them a better life than they would get in Saudi? Just curious.

 

We are obligated to offer asylum to anyone whose life is in danger from returning, a better life means one without ISIS, nothing about comparisons to any country than the one they are fleeing from, understand? 

[billd766]

31 minutes ago, DM07 said:

Remind me again: from which war torn hellhole did you flee to Thailand?

 

 

I don't have to remind you of anything.

 

Remind me again of all of the wives, parents and children left behind in those war torn hell holes by the brave refugees so that they can get away instead of fighting for their own country and families.

 

Remind me once again how many refugees you are supporting and that live with you.

 

If you were paying attention I was replying to posts #16, 19 and 20 which you had previously replied to.

Edited January 12, 2017 by billd766
Added extra text

[tubby johnson]

Not refugees, but migrants 

 

Refugees are women, children, sick, elderly. I pity them.

 

These are young, healthy men aged 20-30. Opportunists, welfare whores and primitive islamists. First they ruined their own countries, now they want to take their violent and inbred behaviour to civilised countries.

[billd766]

29 minutes ago, DM07 said:

I was answering to a post, in which the poster bragged about how he managed his life to well and he chose to live in Thailand.

Care to read?

 

IF you were talking about ME please include ALL the text. If you bothered to read it nowhere was I bragging about anything.

 

If you were not I apologise.

[DavidVincent]

38 minutes ago, tubby johnson said:

Not refugees, but migrants 

 

Refugees are women, children, sick, elderly. I pity them.

 

These are young, healthy men aged 20-30. Opportunists, welfare whores and primitive islamists. First they ruined their own countries, now they want to take their violent and inbred behaviour to civilised countries.

One more ignorant of the reality of things...and sound a bit racist as well

Most of the time their countries are ruined by US, Europe and UK...

Edited January 12, 2017 by DavidVincent

[tubby johnson]

17 minutes ago, DavidVincent said:

One more ignorant of the reality of things...and sound a bit racist as well

Most of the time their countries are ruined by US, Europe and UK...

 

Nope.

 

Ruined by islam and centuries of inbreeding.

[Morch]

On 1/11/2017 at 3:25 PM, simple1 said:

 

If you and others posting in this topic would invest a few minutes doing some research there would not be so many uniformed posts. At the URL below are some stats talking to child refugees in Greece.

 

https://data.unhcr.org/mediterranean/documents.php?page=1&view=grid&Type[]=3

 

With regards to funding millions have been provided to support refugee camps in Greece for the winter period, but have been very poorly managed / disbursed by the Greek government. As I said some basic research will quickly provide facts as opposed to fact less speculation.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/22/thousands-of-refugees-left-in-cold-as-un-and-eu-accused-of-mismanagement

 

Many are stuck in Greece due to the very leghty wait times for assessment of asylum seeker status and of course very limited access to resettlement places for those positively vetted.

 

I would guess the same scenarios apply to Serbia

 

The ratio of children to adults seems to be low, according to the first link. At least in comparison to such ratios in migrants/refugees home countries. There could be various reasons for that, but I don't think that public perception is that off mark on this point.

 

The EU blaming the Greek government for being inefficient is just lame. Not as if the EU had no idea who they are dealing with. And not as if EU policies had nothing to do with contributing to the migrant/refugee situation in Greece. As for screening comment - the other option would be not to screen them and let everyone in. Wouldn't that be fun.

 

The wording of the OP's headline is unfortunate. Could have used other terms than "forced" to convey the same meaning, resulting with less antagonism.

[DavidVincent]

2 minutes ago, tubby johnson said:

 

Nope.

 

Ruined by islam and centuries of inbreeding.

Thanks to confirm my point about racism...and your lack of knowledge about Sirya, Libya, Iraq...

Edited January 12, 2017 by DavidVincent

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You appear to be talking about people seeking a better life by paying vile people traffickers to take them to rich countries in expectation of jobs etc.

The OP is about refugees, and your post is off topic.

 

BTW Saudi Arabia is not in a similar situation and is very rich. It is also culturally similar. Why do they not go there? 

You should try reading non fake news sometimes. If you did, you'd know that Saudi Arabia has been slashing pay and cutting jobs for its own citizens. Their economy is in deep trouble.

[tubby johnson]

21 minutes ago, DavidVincent said:

Thanks to confirm my point about racism

 

Inbred comment, devoid of facts or logic.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, DM07 said:

By the way: I saw the documentary, from which the picture in OP is taken.

To those who complain about the lack of women and children in "these camps" and among those "alleged refugees" (who - of course only send their young men to infiltrate European societies, hollow them out with Sharia and become terrorists..):

LITERALLY the passage before AND after this picture, shows women and children in this same camp, freezing!

Just sayin'...

 

Link?

[DavidVincent]

Just now, tubby johnson said:

 

Inbred comment, devoid of facts or logic.

Just re-read yourself, what you think and then go have a look at the common racist opinions on the web...you fit perfectly the spot..anyway this discussion is useless and obviously it is not the only thing which it is....have a nice day, ignorance is a bliss I guess

[Shawn0000]

43 minutes ago, tubby johnson said:

Not refugees, but migrants 

 

Refugees are women, children, sick, elderly. I pity them.

 

These are young, healthy men aged 20-30. Opportunists, welfare whores and primitive islamists. First they ruined their own countries, now they want to take their violent and inbred behaviour to civilised countries.

 

Why do you value the lives of women, children, sick and elderly more than healthy men, a life is a life, and personally I pity anyone whose lives are destroyed by ISIS.  Not that the refugees from Syria are predominantly men, they are actually predominately women and children, so you are coming from nowhere anyway.  I guess you are confused by the total numbers of refugees, which includes Eritreans of whom the vast majority are young men, but they are given asylum due to escaping slavery at the hands of their own government, quite different to the reason the Syrians are leaving.  And they did not ruin their own country, their country was doing quite well until we invaded Iraq, fueled extremism and gave rise to ISIS, we ruined their country.  And they do not want to export violent behavior, those few you have seen commit atrocities in Europe are ISIS following the real refugees, they are angered by the fact that the people they want to be their Islamic State citizens do not want to be ruled by them, and the are attempting to halt the intake of refugees and force these people to live in their medieval ideology.  Please stop being ISIS's mug and wake up and stop helping them to win.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

We are obligated to offer asylum to anyone whose life is in danger from returning, a better life means one without ISIS, nothing about comparisons to any country than the one they are fleeing from, understand? 

 

"We" who?

The point made is that not all of the migrants/refugees hail from countries in which their lives are threatened. Nor do all come from countries where ISIS is major factor. Another point made was that refugees are to be afforded a safe haven at the first country available, not quite the pick your choice thing some imagine. There is no obligation to offer asylum to anyone and everyone arriving from whatever third world country, just on the basis of their nationality or economic situation.

 

[Shawn0000]

10 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

"We" who?

The point made is that not all of the migrants/refugees hail from countries in which their lives are threatened. Nor do all come from countries where ISIS is major factor. Another point made was that refugees are to be afforded a safe haven at the first country available, not quite the pick your choice thing some imagine. There is no obligation to offer asylum to anyone and everyone arriving from whatever third world country, just on the basis of their nationality or economic situation.

 

 

Stop mixing migrants with refugees.  All accepted refugees cannot return due to fear of persecution, fact.  Many come seeking asylum and do not attain refugee status and are returned, more are returned than accepted, fact.  Refugees are to be afforded a safe haven at the first country they choose to apply in, not quite the way around that some imagine, such as yourself.  Just imagine if they had to seek asylum at the first safe country, it just wouldn't work, time and again we would see mass genocides as the victims could only skip the border and be easily found in nearby camps just ready for the slaughter.  And, no, there is no need to offer asylum to anyone and everybody arriving from whatever third world country just on the basis of their nationality or economic situation, and nobody does, so what is your point exactly or were you just seizing on the opportunity to spout a load of hyperbole?

Edited January 12, 2017 by Shawn0000

[ozmeldo]

Much warmer in Turkey than Serbia.

 

#economicmigrantsgamingsystem

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

Stop mixing migrants with refugees.  All accepted refugees cannot return due to fear of persecution, fact.  Many come seeking asylum and do not attain refugee status and are returned, more are returned than accepted, fact.  Refugees are to be afforded a safe haven at the first country they choose to apply in, not quite the way around that some imagine, such as yourself.  Just imagine if they had to seek asylum at the first safe country, it just wouldn't work, time and again we would see mass genocides as the victims could only skip the border and be easily found in nearby camps just ready for the slaughter.  And, no, there is no need to offer asylum to anyone and everybody arriving from whatever third world country just on the basis of their nationality or economic situation, and nobody does, so what is your point exactly or were you just seizing on the opportunity to spout a load of hyperbole?

 

From the OP: "In Serbia, hundreds of migrants lined up in the freezing snow at a make-shift shelter in the capital Belgrade to receive a warm meal." I believe this is a reference to the picture appearing in the OP, but could be wrong.

 

Refugees cannot illegally enter a country, cross another and opt for asylum in another. Your "mass genocides" ravings are nonsense - in fact, most of the refugees are living on camps in surrounding countries - Turkey, Jordan, Lebanon and Saudi Arabia to name the obvious ones. Mass slaughters are not a feature of these camps. So, in fact, that is how it works.

 

My point was that not all of these people arriving in Europe are refugees, not all of them come from countries which are recognized as having a state of things meriting treatment of people as refugees. Some of these people aren't even from countries anywhere near Europe (Afghanistan was mentioned).

[ozmeldo]

Ship them all to Saudi. Nice and warm there. Oh...no welfare system to mooch from. Doh!

[LammyTS1]

On 11 January 2017 at 3:37 PM, DavidVincent said:

 

I said that more than one time, I am tired to repeat myself while you are not genuinely interested..if you are then tell me what you think of the last 30 years of war in middle east orchestrated by western countries, go have a look at the political and economical history of african countries...then you will know.

But I know it is hard to convince someone who do not want to listen...

The Middle East has been at war for over 1000 years.

You state, only the past 30  years has been orchestrated by the West?

Sorry but the Middle East requires no help from Western countries to be at war....

Edited January 12, 2017 by LammyTS1

[Shawn0000]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

From the OP: "In Serbia, hundreds of migrants lined up in the freezing snow at a make-shift shelter in the capital Belgrade to receive a warm meal." I believe this is a reference to the picture appearing in the OP, but could be wrong.

 

Refugees cannot illegally enter a country, cross another and opt for asylum in another. Your "mass genocides" ravings are nonsense - in fact, most of the refugees are living on camps in surrounding countries - Turkey, Jordan, Lebanon and Saudi Arabia to name the obvious ones. Mass slaughters are not a feature of these camps. So, in fact, that is how it works.

 

My point was that not all of these people arriving in Europe are refugees, not all of them come from countries which are recognized as having a state of things meriting treatment of people as refugees. Some of these people aren't even from countries anywhere near Europe (Afghanistan was mentioned).

 

What has that to do with giving people asylum?  Stop mixing the two up, some are migrants some are refugees, and the latter are not classified by you, they are classified by agreements signed in Geneva.

 

A refugee can move through a safe country, you are talking nonsense, they do it everyday, where they claim asylum could send them back to where to entered but that does not mean they cannot travel through and claim wherever they like, you really have been mixed up with this one.

 

Attacks on refugee camps are a regular reality, you could try watching the news before making silly assumptions.

 

Not all those arriving are refugees, I think everyone knows that already.  And no, not all are from countries near to Europe, but so what?  What is your point?  Afghani's are probably hoping to seek asylum, by the way, and contrary to your previous assertion, they can seek asylum where ever they please, so have we solved it now and demonstrated that you didn't have a point at all?

[LammyTS1]

On 11 January 2017 at 4:01 PM, DavidVincent said:

As for the people living on benefits...What do you have to say of  more than 30k UK citizen living in UE on benefits...and I am sure we can find some numbers linked to Thailand as well...

 

Please enlighten me as to how a farang can claim benefits here in Thailand? Which office can I apply for unemployment benefit here in Pattaya?

[Shawn0000]

16 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

Ship them all to Saudi. Nice and warm there. Oh...no welfare system to mooch from. Doh!

 

No welfare system in Saudi?  They all get paid for doing nothing!

And they have already taken 2.5 million refugees, so what are you on about?

[LammyTS1]

On 11 January 2017 at 5:11 PM, overherebc said:

I worked in and around Damascus when it was one of the most tolerant cities in the whole area to other religions. I can remember seeing on the same street or near enough a mosque a synagoge and other places of worship. I enjoyed my time there and the people were mostly friendly.

When ISIS or whatever started taking over the local population as far as I'm concerned made no or very little effort to defend anything or their way of life until it was too late. I don't think the oil companies like Shell and Total had a lot to do with that. In both cases they paid some very good salaries and wages to the the local people who worked for them. However once the locals managed to get an office job in 99% of cases they decided that was the end of their need to do anything and many would disappear for week and return just to check their money was going in the bank.

 

Similar to West Africa. Oil company I worked for had to employ locals for office jobs. The head Finance manager was a highly paid local with no intention of actually working. Would disappear for most of the day if we were even lucky enough to even see him. I guess he was looking for another office job with more pay. 

Funnily, he was a very nice gentleman and I enjoyed talking to him over a coffee but didn't happen very often.

Edited January 12, 2017 by LammyTS1

[ozmeldo]

8 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

No welfare system in Saudi?  They all get paid for doing nothing!

And they have already taken 2.5 million refugees, so what are you on about?

"THEY"

 

Well, it's the center of Sunni Islam, they should take them all especially when it's Saudi meddling that caused the drama in the first place.

 

This war was the best thing that ever happened to scores of those people. Notice how none stay in Greece or Turkey? Headed to northern EU.

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

What has that to do with giving people asylum?  Stop mixing the two up, some are migrants some are refugees, and the latter are not classified by you, they are classified by agreements signed in Geneva.

 

A refugee can move through a safe country, you are talking nonsense, they do it everyday, where they claim asylum could send them back to where to entered but that does not mean they cannot travel through and claim wherever they like, you really have been mixed up with this one.

 

Attacks on refugee camps are a regular reality, you could try watching the news before making silly assumptions.

 

Not all those arriving are refugees, I think everyone knows that already.  And no, not all are from countries near to Europe, but so what?  What is your point?  Afghani's are probably hoping to seek asylum, by the way, and contrary to your previous assertion, they can seek asylum where ever they please, so have we solved it now and demonstrated that you didn't have a point at all?

 

Once again, the OP itself mixes the terms, not my invention. I would suggest that this confusion is not merely the media's doing, but does reflect the unclear status of many of these people. Not all are refugees, not all are accorded asylum.

 

Borders exist for refugees as well, although some posters seem oblivious to it. Entering a country in an illegal manner, while practiced, is  not their right.

 

You should try to come up with actual massacres, such as you warned about, happening with regard to the current crisis. As far as I recall, there weren't any. A regular reality? In Turkey, Jordan, Lebanon and Saudi Arabia - I think not.

 

What you mostly demonstrate is rudeness, not much else.