piersbeckett Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Disrupt as they may, the American quasi, left-wing dream is already shattered: 'There is a time in every man's life when he arrives at the conviction that envy is ignorance; that imitation is suicide; that he must take himself for better or worse as his portion; that though the wide universe is full of good, no kernal of nourishing corn can come to him but through his toil bestowed on that plot of ground which is given to him to till.' - from Self-Reliance by Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike324 Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 21 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said: To attempt to stop the celebration is not to stop him being made president, everyone in their right mind wants to stop him being president, but they can't do that but what they can do is shame him at his inauguration, that is their democratic right whether you like it or not. Well said, something pro trump supporters here can't seem to get past their head. 2 minutes ago, sanemax said: You say they just want to stop the celebration, they say they want to stop the process , they are not trying to "shame him" or stop any celebration they are trying to stop him from taking office . He got voted in and people are trying to stop a democratic process from happening You and I and the whole USA knows that nobody can stop Trump from taking office now. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcsmith Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 1 minute ago, sanemax said: Many Far right Americans said the same about Obama Explain to me how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Just now, Berkshire said: While I understand this reasoning--at least from some of the Trump supporters--and the idea of wanting to vote for a "wild card," all I can say is "Why Trump?" Heck, some unknown homeless guy with a few marbles missing would do less damage than Trump will. And before some start saying "wait and see," just look at what he's already doing to the free press and the morale of the Intel community....for starters. But sure, I'll wait and see. Because the choice ended up between Hillary and Trump - not an unknown, homeless guy with a few missing marbles.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcsmith Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: Because the choice ended up between Hillary and Trump - not an unknown, homeless guy with a few missing marbles.... Sorry but that excuse doesn't fly. Ignoring Hillary for a moment, people also choose him over every other nominee the Republicans put up. He's in there because a lot of people bought into what he was selling. Which is scary in itself. Edited January 13, 2017 by jcsmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn0000 Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 10 minutes ago, sanemax said: You say they just want to stop the celebration, they say they want to stop the process , they are not trying to "shame him" or stop any celebration they are trying to stop him from taking office . He got voted in and people are trying to stop a democratic process from happening Did you even get past the headline? They plan to stop people moving on roads leading to the inauguration, they plan to stop the celebration. In their own words they plan to "ruin Trumps inauguration". Do you really think they would give them the protest permit to stop the actual inauguration? Funny Republicans, if only they could be bothered to read they could set themselves straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said: Because the choice ended up between Hillary and Trump - not an unknown, homeless guy with a few missing marbles.... Yeah, I know. In hindsight, I suppose. What's now coming to light, Trump's ties to Russia, his massive conflicts of interest, his nominee list full of insiders and rich folks, his unwillingness to let the press do their jobs, his thin skin, etc., it's just a big disappointment. I never liked Trump, but sort of hoped that he would change and be better than he was in the elections. A President for all Americans. Maybe after 20 Jan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianf Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 20 minutes ago, piersbeckett said: Disrupt as they may, the American quasi, left-wing dream is already shattered: 'There is a time in every man's life when he arrives at the conviction that envy is ignorance; that imitation is suicide; that he must take himself for better or worse as his portion; that though the wide universe is full of good, no kernal of nourishing corn can come to him but through his toil bestowed on that plot of ground which is given to him to till.' - from Self-Reliance by Ralph Waldo Emerson Nothing to do with a left wing dream. Or a right wing takeover. The Americans have chosen an absolute nutter, yes a madman as it's leader and the rest of the world is aghast. You only have to look at his track record and his behaviour: It doesn't inspire confidence does it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianf Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 20 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: Because the choice ended up between Hillary and Trump - not an unknown, homeless guy with a few missing marbles.... I have met people who live on the street who have less marbles missing than Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 8 minutes ago, ianf said: I have met people who live on the street who have less marbles missing than Trump. This post makes it clear why discussion is largely pointless..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDave Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 42 minutes ago, jcsmith said: I don't get why it's so hard to understand the difference between Obama and Trump. Whether you like Obama or not, he wasn't presenting policies that were based on hatred for other Americans. His cabinet wasn't saying that the religious group of a large number of citizens was a cancer, threatening to ban a religious group from entering the country, nor was he appointing people to his cabinet with shady backgrounds and little experience at all related to the jobs they were doing. Obama was certainly a democrat, but he wasn't a radical. He wasn't taunting republican citizens, ridiculing Bush every chance he got, he was trying to bring people together. He wasn't defending a foreign government who tried to hack the American election system, attacking the press, or giving Christmas greetings to all of his "many enemies who fought him and lost so badly that they don't know what to do." He wasn't threatening to break up families whose children were American citizens. Nor was he routinely lying to the American people, calling into question the intelligence community. He wasn't riding into office on a campaign built on hateful rhetoric. Etc. That's a wee bit different than what we're seeing from Trump. To many people Trump's rhetoric is a direct threat to their way of life. And that inspires a bit more passion and resistance than someone who they simply disagree with. My post (which you quoted) had nothing to do with Obama vs Trump, but everything to do with the tactics that people employ to support their agenda. These are same people who scream bloody murder when an opposing group uses the same tactics to support their opposing agenda. They play the "ends justify the means" card in support of their actions, while condemning those who employ the same actions to support an opposing agenda. You can't have it both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canceraid Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Get the army involved. Declare a law a that mobs or protesting in public is not allowed and punishable by death. Shoot the bloody demonstrators dead. Enough is enough. We do not need another Thailand with the mob rule started by Sondthi, the yellow shirts and supported by the political party that have never won any elections. Sore losers all these demonstrators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcsmith Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 8 minutes ago, DrDave said: My post (which you quoted) had nothing to do with Obama vs Trump, but everything to do with the tactics that people employ to support their agenda. These are same people who scream bloody murder when an opposing group uses the same tactics to support their opposing agenda. They play the "ends justify the means" card in support of their actions, while condemning those who employ the same actions to support an opposing agenda. You can't have it both ways. Your post said... Quote Had the same kind of protest been organized for Obama's inauguration, the organizers most likely would have been labeled intolerant fascists, or worse. It seems to me that these "ends justify the means" types are pathetic losers, applying this logic if and only if the outcome supports their goals. So unless you are suggesting that people should not be allowed to protest at all, it was directly relevant. And on the suggestion that they would be labeled facists, it would depend on what their reasons for the protests. Obama certainly faced some racially motivated criticism. But unless you are suggesting that any criticism of Obama would get treated as if it was racially motivated then I would have to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn0000 Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, Canceraid said: Get the army involved. Declare a law a that mobs or protesting in public is not allowed and punishable by death. Shoot the bloody demonstrators dead. Enough is enough. We do not need another Thailand with the mob rule started by Sondthi, the yellow shirts and supported by the political party that have never won any elections. Sore losers all these demonstrators. Gets a bit more tricky when the mob is the one who gets the army involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcsmith Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Canceraid said: Get the army involved. Declare a law a that mobs or protesting in public is not allowed and punishable by death. Shoot the bloody demonstrators dead. Enough is enough. We do not need another Thailand with the mob rule started by Sondthi, the yellow shirts and supported by the political party that have never won any elections. Sore losers all these demonstrators. So far in this thread we have multiple Trump supporters suggesting civil war. I would think nobody would want that, but I also think we are probably closer to it now than we have been at any point since the civil war. That's what happens when you run a campaign based on hate. If Trump doesn't want to face protests, he needs to be a president for all Americans. So far he has shown zero interest in that. If you support that, then it says a lot about your character, or lack thereof. Edited January 13, 2017 by jcsmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDave Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 10 minutes ago, jcsmith said: Your post said... So unless you are suggesting that people should not be allowed to protest at all, it was directly relevant. And on the suggestion that they would be labeled facists, it would depend on what their reasons for the protests. Obama certainly faced some racially motivated criticism. But unless you are suggesting that any criticism of Obama would get treated as if it was racially motivated then I would have to disagree. OK, one last attempt to see the forest past the trees. I only used Obama as a reference since he was the previously elected president. Nothing to do with race. You can substitute Hillary Clinton (in the event that she had been elected) for Obama in my comments. My point is, then, Clinton supporters would scream bloody murder if Trump supporters would play the "ends justify the means" card and try to shut down Clinton's inauguration. Regarding whether people should be allowed to protest - of course they should. Should they be allowed to commit unlawful acts in the course of protesting? Of course not. The protest organizer has publicly stated that he aims to shut down all 12 security checkpoints which would most likely require a confrontation with law enforcement and/or the military. I don't see this ending well for the protesters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcsmith Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, DrDave said: OK, one last attempt to see the forest past the trees. I only used Obama as a reference since he was the previously elected president. Nothing to do with race. You can substitute Hillary Clinton (in the event that she had been elected) for Obama in my comments. My point is, then, Clinton supporters would scream bloody murder if Trump supporters would play the "ends justify the means" card and try to shut down Clinton's inauguration. Regarding whether people should be allowed to protest - of course they should. Should they be allowed to commit unlawful acts in the course of protesting? Of course not. The protest organizer has publicly stated that he aims to shut down all 12 security checkpoints which would most likely require a confrontation with law enforcement and/or the military. I don't see this ending well for the protesters. I would disagree that people would scream bloody murder if there were protests against Hillary. Or if they were against Obama so long as they had a valid reason and it's not something like a white power rally. There were a small number of protesters at Obama's inauguration. Trump himself suggested protests after Obama won a second term.Obama also faced protests during his presidency (as have most presidents), but they were never on the scale that Trump is facing. And there is a reason for that. The bottom line, and the point I was making in my response to you was that Trump's campaign was based on hateful rhetoric that is a direct attack on many of his own citizens. So that is going to bring people out to protest him.This isn't an end to justify the means, nobody expects Trump to step down due to protests. It is a reminder to him though that those people exist and they won't just roll over quietly and pretend that everything is okay. I don't think there will be any issues with law enforcement or the military. Nobody wants another Kent State. The protests can accomplish some things though. First off they serve as a reminder that much of the country not only dislikes Donald Trump, but that they truly despise him. They also suggest that he will see more of the same, and that members of congress will need to answer to their citizens when it comes time to be re-elected. And that can have an influence when it comes time for members of congress to pass some of the more radical proposals. Edited January 13, 2017 by jcsmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) When you have a president elect with the worst approval rating in decades, and probably the majority of the population who think he's a narcissistic, egotistical, spoilt juvenile, I hardly find it surprising that people wish to protest. And it's their right after all, First Amendment and all that. Edited January 13, 2017 by Chicog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 1 hour ago, ianf said: Nothing to do with a left wing dream. Or a right wing takeover. The Americans have chosen an absolute nutter, yes a madman as it's leader and the rest of the world is aghast. The rest of the world really wasnt aghast because USA voted for Donald , although reading the lefty media, you would come to the impression that the only people who supported Trump were his Family and Putin . Donald had widespread support around the World . Typical lefty attitude though , only they have the correct opinion and everyone who disagrees with them should be silenced , attacked or verbally abused . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn0000 Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 18 minutes ago, sanemax said: The rest of the world really wasnt aghast because USA voted for Donald , although reading the lefty media, you would come to the impression that the only people who supported Trump were his Family and Putin . Donald had widespread support around the World . Typical lefty attitude though , only they have the correct opinion and everyone who disagrees with them should be silenced , attacked or verbally abused . Who from? I am yet to meet one person who does not think Trump is a dangerous fool. Have you not seen the comedy from around the world mocking Trump? https://news.vice.com/story/the-whole-world-is-making-a-mockery-of-donald-trump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said: Who from? I am yet to meet one person who does not think Trump is a dangerous fool. I do not claim to speak on the Worlds behalf and I have no idea about the worlds opinion on Trump , but from my limited observations, Left Wingers are against him and Right wings are in favour of him . Im not even going to suggest any figures, but its incorrect so say that "the rest of the world as aghast" at Trumps election win . IMO, the majority of the rest of the world took little or no interest in the USA elections and had no idea which candidate stood for what Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, sanemax said: I do not claim to speak on the Worlds behalf and I have no idea about the worlds opinion on Trump , but from my limited observations, Left Wingers are against him and Right wings are in favour of him . Im not even going to suggest any figures, but its incorrect so say that "the rest of the world as aghast" at Trumps election win . IMO, the majority of the rest of the world took little or no interest in the USA elections and had no idea which candidate stood for what My conversations with foreigners indicate they think trump is very unpredictable and dangerous to the world, and their opinion of the USA in general (which is usually already low) has now gone done even more notches. Yes, of course it varies but to suggest that the world hasn't noticed this clown is just wrong. No nation in their right mind would be looking to the USA now for an example of a functioning democracy to emulate any more than they would looking at Russia or Thailand for that. As trump might tweet -- Sad. But he wouldn't see the problem, given he's an authoritarian demagogue. Edited January 13, 2017 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Jingthing said: Yes, of course it varies but to suggest that the world hasn't noticed this clown is just wrong. I didnt say that . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Just now, sanemax said: I didnt say that . Sure thing, mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Jingthing said: Sure thing, mate. OK, but dont suggest that I did next time, cheers . Im sure that you know the difference between "the majority of the rest of the world " (3,5 Billion people) and "the rest of the world " (7 Billion people ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawan Dok Krating Daeng Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 2 hours ago, Canceraid said: Get the army involved. Declare a law a that mobs or protesting in public is not allowed and punishable by death. Shoot the bloody demonstrators dead. Enough is enough. We do not need another Thailand with the mob rule started by Sondthi, the yellow shirts and supported by the political party that have never won any elections. Sore losers all these demonstrators. Trump nihilists and their disregard of the law. You may want to review the Posse Comitatus Act 1878. Then there is the small matter of the Constitution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 16 minutes ago, Jingthing said: No nation in their right mind would be looking to the USA now for an example of a functioning democracy to emulate any more than they would looking at Russia or Thailand for that. What was "undemocratic" about the USA elections . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn0000 Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 17 minutes ago, sanemax said: I do not claim to speak on the Worlds behalf and I have no idea about the worlds opinion on Trump , but from my limited observations, Left Wingers are against him and Right wings are in favour of him . Im not even going to suggest any figures, but its incorrect so say that "the rest of the world as aghast" at Trumps election win . IMO, the majority of the rest of the world took little or no interest in the USA elections and had no idea which candidate stood for what How could they when the campaign was nothing but sleaze? No one ever know what either candidate stands for in US elections, they know who has the most balloons. But the world really was aghast with many of Trumps comments, the recording of him bragging about sexual assault, the interview that surfaced of him condoning statutory rape, his association with a convicted pedophile, his association with the KKK and of course the latest, pissgate. Of course the world is aghast that the US have elected this weirdo as president, it is shocking stuff, can you think of another case worldwide of someone as sleazy as Trump being elected? Perhaps Berlusconi, he is the only one I can think of, and of course the sleaze came out after he was elected not before! And you might have noticed that a lot of right wingers are actually against Trump, he is the least popular president elect in history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn0000 Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 1 minute ago, sanemax said: What was "undemocratic" about the USA elections . They didn't say it was undemocratic, they said it was not a functioning democracy. Any state who has their election process interfered with by another state does not have a functioning democratic process.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said: his association with the KKK In what way was Trump associated with the KKK ? He denounced them, not sure that you could classify that as "association " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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