20 percent of critically-ill patients in Thailand die in ambulances while being rushed to hospitals

[hobz]

27 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

Possibly two main factors for this statistic,
First most EMS crews scrape up the patient and blaze a trail to a hospital, giving no road-side care/stabalisation or life saving practices within the ambulance, they just try to get you to a doctor before you bleed out & expire or run out of oxygen!

Second, blazing a trail on some roads is reduced to a crawl depending on time of the day, ie office hours, school runs etc

Thai people in the most might move an inch but not more, in heavy traffic they either hold their position or simply cannot move!

 

In my home country most police listen to emergency response calls with ambulances, a police car in the area will often attend the vicinity to make sure the ambulance has a clear path.

Having said that ambulances always carry highly trained paramedics and or doctors if deemed necessary, the patient is examined and stabalised at the scene before transporting anywhere, also patient info/condition is radioed ahead to the hospital team so that the correct personnel are in attendance to minimise any delays on arrival!

You forgot the third factor, that Thai people drive extremely selfishly.

*edit*
You also forgot the fourth factor. Thai people believe that the emergency vehicles are abusing the sirens and using them to pass through traffic even when there's no emergency. Not sure how often they are right.

Edited January 17, 2017 by hobz

[hobz]

1 hour ago, disambiguated said:

 

It is, however, wholly Asian.

Explain Japan.

[BSJ]

Sad when a whole race of people are oblivious to the suffering of others and the life or death struggle of ambulance crews to get people to the emergency room..  

[HHTel]

The main problem on the highways is that local drivers have no common sense.  In heavy traffic (which may be caused by and accident further down) then fill up the hard shoulder, a lane designed to allow emergency vehicles access.  It's "me first" and to hell with the consequences.  Police should attend the congestion on the highways and fine the pants off the dozens of cars using the hard shoulder as an extra lane.  It's not rocket science so why can't the Thais get another brain cell to rub with the one they have  and understand?

 

[elgordo38]

18 hours ago, Get Real said:

No matter if have a law or not have a law that tells people so move aside for an ambulance. Here are people so ignorant and have so poor driving skills so it´s really unbelievable.
Nothing will change that, more than a total turn in the way of thinking and showing respect to people and human life. Something that´s really lacking here. Just to look at how much changed

in the way of thinking and living in the last 20 years in Thailand. Got the picture already. No need for more. Totally hopeless! Just simple luck that the number is as low as 20 percent. Thought it was much higher.

When I watch a video of one cop in a car hitting another cop I agree the  20% figure seems low. 

[TSF]

Saw it myself just a couple days ago, driving along Highway 304 in Pak Thong Chai with my wife, I look in rear view mirror and see an ambulance coming up behind me with lights flashing, so I immediately pull over to the left and actually stopped for several seconds to let the ambulance get past, then I take off driving again, can see ambulance in front of me, boxed in on the 2-lane highway, driver trying hard to get through but all these Thais clogging up both lanes. I said to my wife...you see the difference here? What I just did and these gormless clowns?

[tukkytuktuk]

Do ambulances turn up for everyone?
Sometimes I see a pickup or SUV turn up.
Is it whose closer that takes the patient to hospital?

[flyingdoc]

Samui may fall in for a lot of criticism, but here is reality.  An accident!  Samui rescue were called and arrived long before the police ! Asked which hospital ?  Rushed to the Government Hospital in Nathon, well treated and at nominal cost !

[Anon999]

The majority are much more likely to be intentionally blocking an emergency vehicle. They are afraid that another driver will slot in behind it and they will lose a few places in the queue or they are just pig ignorant. From what I have seen those unintentionally blocking an ambulance move out the way when realising it. 

[marquis22]

Agree with this seeing how cars do not give a shishenhousen when seeing or hearing an Ambulance.

I was in a taxi and over took a near stationary Ambulance in the lane beside us with its lights and siren blaring while endeavouring to  travel in  traffic jam.

It was obvious the taxi driver and others were not in the least worried about clearing a path for the Ambulance.

I guess the person being transported was one of the 20% !!!!!!

[SunsetT]

21 hours ago, daveAustin said:

A lot of truth in that; the me thing, which is wholly un-Buddhist. See it all the time, not giving way to ambulances. Unfortunately, it's the type of thing that would take generations to change. Big fines and vehicle impoundings are the only way to go... as long as they're not Mercedes. 

.......With wats and monks everywhere?.........So what are they teaching?...........Thailand's religion is failing it's people!

 

Thailand follows the original Theravada Buddhism' unlike most Buddhist countries who have evolved to follow the more 'selfless' Mahayana Buddhism where those believed to have achieved enlightenment renounce  nirvana and their right to escape from rebirth to return to Earth to help others along the path. Theravada Buddhism advocates following the founders example of seeking one's own nirvana only.  Can this be construed as selfish? He is said to have abandoned his wife, child, and wordly responsibilities to seek his own salvation......Does that ring any bells for Thailand? What kind of role model is this for Thai men? Maybe this goes some way to explain perceived selfish behaviour by Thai people.

 

The West also, the advertising industry excepted, gravely underestimates the power of role models.

[Thaidream]

The Thai Government; schools; temples and business needs to start an education campaign about safe and responsible driving.  the media needs to place releases about safe and responsible driving on TV; Radio and newspapers. It will still take a generation for it to sink in but it has to start somewhere.

[manrogi]

Training crews to top paramedic standards would probably pay off more than increasing number of doctors ,and enhance status and professionalism,Does anyone know what the wage of an ambulance driver is?

 

Re making way for ambulance,I have that as one item on my list of ten things by which we might judge a country CIVILISED.Thailand scores low

[peter48]

Government should make it an offence when emergency vehicles are obstructed by others. Simple big fines. 

[peter48]

Spoke once to Aussie academic who went frequently in advisory capacity to most Countries on this side of Asia and he always said Thailand was the most chaotic of them all including China, Malaysia , Vietnam and Indonesia etc., Its probably the educational level of many Thais which is below other counties and of course will hold them back economically and culturally.

 

Trouble is I think 2 problems there 1. The upper middle class, elites Bangkok based , business class etc want to keep their power and wealth as is . 2. Their kids in Bangkok, Hau Hin etc get into either private schools or top selective/ academic local schools. There is no concept of socially progressive politics as in Scandinavia or Germany or France where the common good helps all. Unfortunately the AngloSaxon countries Brexit Hard Right UK and Trump USA will get more unequal and so more division will happen there too 

Edited January 17, 2017 by peter48
Refined

[dunroaming]

When I was wiped out by a hit and run driver on the Hang Dong road in Chiang Mai the ambulance arrived quick (so my wife told me as I was unconscious at the time).  It whisked me off to the hospital which was further up the road in Chiang Mai.  It was only afterwards that we discovered that the ambulance was heading for another motorbike accident further down the road but assumed we were them.

 

The hospital we were taken to (can't remember the name) had an impressive fatality rate so my wife got me transferred post haste to Lanna where I was taken care of brilliantly!

[free123]

dont bash me  but in my place central europe if a heavy accident occurs and it is obvious that a.) we have an utter emergency b.) traffic in the area is worse and/ or transport to nearest hospital is to far they send in one or two helicopters that are set up like miniclinics ....  in addition to this bus lanes can be used for ambulances and on highways they have extra lanes .... if misorganisation happens somewhere in the process often it gets picked up by media and finds the way into public discussion so those responsible get exposed....and yes there is a general help attitude....all these should be easy possible within thailand too ...my wife works in a public hospital the stuff are great people, good friends, so change to the better is possible....

[dunroaming]

free123

 

I agree and that is the case in much of the western world.  However Thailand is lacking in so many ways.  Bus lanes and air ambulances are not priorities for Thai's.

[kjhbigv]

On 1/16/2017 at 4:18 PM, Briggsy said:

An ambulance in a developed country is equipped to the max. The paramedics are very well trained.

 

A Thai ambulance typically has nothing but a stretcher although recently defibrillators have become the toy du jour which the ambulance staff love to use even when completely unnecessary. Effectively it is a taxi to the hospital.

 

Some comparable statistics, independently verified, would be enlightening.

 

Absolutely! I have been scraped up once, having come off my bike. Having been knocked unconscious (from hitting unmarked roadworks) until the ambulance and co arrived.....they just proceeded to attend to my "road rash" which didn't inspire me with confidence, bearing in mind I had been unconscious for 10 mins or so, I would have thought the priority would be to check "vital signs", not move me, don't take my helmet off etc etc.

 

If you have an accident here, the ambulance really is a taxi service to hospital, don't expect much more than that. I guess that's why the figure is 20%!

 

Not criticising, just the way it is, I accept that risk living here and accept that I am responsible for my own well being should something happen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[smotherb]

23 hours ago, hanuman2543 said:

Because they bring the patients to the hospital which pays the biggest commission. 2 years ago I had a motorbike accident in CM. Instead of bringing me to a government hospital 200m down the road, they first drove me home to pick up my insurance details and then to a private hospital. The hospital charged for cleaning the wounds, some plaster, pain killers, bandages and a 30 second visit from one of their doctors in the ER 4500 Baht. The ambulance drivers only left after they were paid for the "delivery" of me.

Funny, when I had a motorcycle accident, the ambulance personnel asked me to which hospital I wanted to go. If you had said, take me to the cheapest hospital, they may have.

[hanuman2543]

2 hours ago, smotherb said:

Funny, when I had a motorcycle accident, the ambulance personnel asked me to which hospital I wanted to go. If you had said, take me to the cheapest hospital, they may have.

Good for you that your accident was not so serious that you had been able to talk. I was in a lot of pain and covered in blood, so I was thankful that we finally arrived at the hospital without me having a second accident with the ambulance.

Edited January 17, 2017 by hanuman2543

[sioux2012]

this just goes back to not having any sense of a road code and more evidence of lack of law enforcement of what road code Thailand has...just an ongoing saga

[SiSePuede419]

Why is this topic relevant to Farang?

 

Farang have perfect health, not need ambulance.

 

Farang too smart to be stuck in traffic with other dumb people.

 

5555+.  JK. ?

[selftaopath]

On 1/16/2017 at 6:39 PM, fruitman said:

 

Those voices were not in your head only, BKK ambulances really have a speakersystem so they can yell to other drivers by them.

 

I see it often, it doesn't help much though. They have no idea what to do when they hear an ambulance coming, not strange if you only get 5 hours of drivinglessons to get a license.

I would bet at least 85% of people operating motor vehicles in Thailand could NOT pass a drivers test in any Western/developed country.

[SABloke]

Here in Chiang Mai, we have traffic lights actually creating the traffic jams. You get red light for like e.g. 4-5 minutes and then green light for 15 seconds, if you are lucky.
 
Every time I sit and wait at the red light, I wonder if there might also be some high-end police boss who is also sitting there in his car and maybe thinking... "I could make this smarter and will send a person out to fix this..." (would require a minimum of brain-activity and effort)
 
But so far I guess no Police Boss seem to have figured it out yet. So we all just sit there happily waiting, while the traffic jam builds up... I guess the waiting is overwhelmed by the great feeling of pure joy and excitement, when being 1 of the 3 cars allowed to cross the road, when the green light finally turns on.
 
Not sure if this could save lives.. Might need a large committee set up and some expert statements to figure that out.
 
 

4 - 5 minutes? That sounds like bliss. Come to Bangers where some of the bloody lights only go green 4 - 5 times an hour. No, I'm not exaggerating

[fruitman]

59 minutes ago, selftaopath said:

I would bet at least 85% of people operating motor vehicles in Thailand could NOT pass a drivers test in any Western/developed country.

 

I agree but they are allowed to drive in the West. 

 

Cut somebody off in the West (Thai style) and you can expect a serious fight. Minivan drivers would have an accident within an hour i guess.

 

In the West you have to be carefull though, there are people looking for another driver to make a mistake so they can crash their leasecar and get a new one (newest model) the next day.

[Langsuan Man]

Thai Ambulances and flashing lights are the adult equivalent of the little boy who cried wolf  here in Thailand 

 

I was recently hospitalized for Pneumonia and the hospital I was in did not have a working CT scan machine so they made arrangements to have it done at another hospital on the other side of town

 

Next thing I know I am in an ambulance being taken to the other hospital;  this was not an emergency or in any way life threatening.  The ambulance was just acting like a taxi, yet they had to turn on the lights and sirens and people wonder why no one treats ambulances as emergency vehicles in the country

 

Probably because most drivers know that the lights and sirens don't mean an emergency but just another Thai driver with the me, me, me,  more important than you syndrome

 

[01322521959]

I see it all the time. If you block the path of any emergency vehicle in the UK you are in deep doos doos.
Here there's never been an information program. They could stick it on in the adverts when those crap Thai soap operas are on.
But we all know the powers that be can't be arsed to do that.

Sent from my i-mobile_i-STYLE_219 using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[Keesters]

On 1/16/2017 at 3:27 PM, hanuman2543 said:

Me, me and me

 

I recall a headline in a newspaper many years ago

 

ME 1ST

 

Hasn't changed...if anything it has got worse

 

[elliss]

On 1/16/2017 at 4:18 PM, Briggsy said:

 

A Thai ambulance typically has nothing but a stretcher although recently 

 

       They  are  now  carry  a  state of the  art machine , 

       to  read  the   patients  ATM  card,  could be a live or die  decision ,

       depends on the  funds available .

Edited January 26, 2017 by elliss