Payap University - Are Their Degrees Internationally Recognized?

[Slated]

Like the topic says.....

Their prices are nice, and their course lists seem up to par.....

Will the degrees be recognized by companies or other graduate schools?

Thanks!!!

[lannarebirth]

Like the topic says.....

Their prices are nice, and their course lists seem up to par.....

Will the degrees be recognized by companies or other graduate schools?

Thanks!!!

Payap is really for Thais with money, whose children don 't have good enough test scores to get into good universities. Some of the girls there are stunners though. If you're going the International student route, I think you'd find CMU or Chula or Mahidol or Khon Kaen to offer a more valuable degree.

Edited December 11, 2006 by lannarebirth

[lannarebirth]

If I were in your shoes, I'd query someone in Admissions to see if credit hours accumulated at Payap will get you a degree from one of the Oregon state schools. Make them map your pathway to same. An OU or OSU or P. State degree means something.

http://ic.payap.ac.th/partners/partner.htm

Edited December 11, 2006 by lannarebirth

[kash]

Payap is rubbish, I was admited last year per phone, no problems whatsoever - came over and got the contra...no no, my fault as nothing in writing but I thought I could trust the US lady in the intl. office...crap. And even more crappy, every student who english is not native, must take a full english course every weekend with the thai students...even the fact that I have degrees from Australia and the UK....way to go, waste of time and money : -) Go CMU if you have the chance!

[Slated]

How does tuition compare?

[Casanundra]

How does tuition compare?

Fees be they high or low don't often denote any form of quality in the tuition or the course.

ABAC for example has high fees yet low entry standards and all that does is encourage rich spoilt kids with no brains to get a degree because it was simply paid for.

Going to a Sprogit and Sons type University is not really a good idea.

Out of the top 200 Universities ranked in the WORLD only Chula was ranked in the top 200 and even then they came out at number 163, a drop of 20 from the previous year.

Payap was probably not even listed in the top 10,000

Edited December 12, 2006 by Casanundra

[Slated]

Just got off the phone with Chulalongkorn.

They said they do not accept any transfer credits, and I will have to start as a first semester student.

Sorry, no thanks (I didn't spend 60k USD at a private US Uni to have the credits ALL turned down.

I'm meeting with the dean of BKK Uni tomorrow, and still considering Payap, since BKK only has a BBA in marketing

[Casanundra]

Just got off the phone with Chulalongkorn.

They said they do not accept any transfer credits, and I will have to start as a first semester student.

Sorry, no thanks (I didn't spend 60k USD at a private US Uni to have the credits ALL turned down.

I'm meeting with the dean of BKK Uni tomorrow, and still considering Payap, since BKK only has a BBA in marketing

Actually that's not entirely true as Chula does accept credit transfers for similar type programs. The questions that need asking are: a) What degree are you looking to study at Chula, Does it have similar content to the course you wish to study at Chula, c) Who did you actually talk to at Chula because depending on who you spoke to will get you a very different answer and d) what credits from previous study are you specifically hoping to transfer?

[john b good]

Like the topic says.....

Their prices are nice, and their course lists seem up to par.....

Will the degrees be recognized by companies or other graduate schools?

Thanks!!!

As for the question "will the degrees be recognized by companies or other graduate schools" the simple answer is probably "no" but then again depending what you are applying for.

If you are looking for a job answering the telephone it might give you an advantage.

As for the comment "some of the girls there are stunners though" this may have more relevence.

There was a thread a couple of years back relating to how some of the students at Payup (but then it might apply to any institution of higher learning in the realm) worked their way through their studies.

I don't see any reason for anything to have changed.

Whilst this may raise some debate it was common opinion amongst "educated" Thais

Edited December 13, 2006 by john b good

[Storekeeper]

Hey Slated ... any more feedback ? Did you make a decision ?

I started off a few years back thinking about getting a MBA from BUIC ... then found out ABAC had alot more international programs to pick from. Assumption has a couple of easy sounding liberal arts type PHD programs and of course the MED or MA in ELT. Also checked out Webster University ...

Only recently discovered Payap on the internet ... smaller campus than the Bangkok schools ... something like about 8500 students compared to 20,000 + at the schools in BKK. I'm interested in their MA in TESOL but if their MA in Divinity is even easier then I might do that.

Like to hear what you've decided if you're still posting.

Just got off the phone with Chulalongkorn.

They said they do not accept any transfer credits, and I will have to start as a first semester student.

Sorry, no thanks (I didn't spend 60k USD at a private US Uni to have the credits ALL turned down.

I'm meeting with the dean of BKK Uni tomorrow, and still considering Payap, since BKK only has a BBA in marketing

[Maejo Man]

When a BA in "somethingology" is a prerequisit for just about any job in Thailand, do you really think that Thai degrees are of any significant value? What other recognised international universities have 100% pass rates?

The only exception to this being Chulalongkorn University, where degrees are not up for bids by wealthy students.

[Ta22]

some school is set up to please the market and digest those with money but have kids who fail to pass the main steam result

channel .

so payap is a school for rich kids . who can't make it to CMU or others major Uni .

Cmu would be a better choice .

[richard10365]

Payap is graduating the first ever class from its BA program in May. Although Payap University has been around for quite a while, this is the 4th year of the international college being open. Anyone can speculate what will happen but until the first BA class actually graduates it is hard to tell.

[PeaceBlondie]

Storekeeper - keep in mind that payap & cmu are on opposite sides of chiang mai - that makes for a long commute if you are on the wrong side

please forgive my punctuation - computer acting up

and we do not know if cmu has the same arrangement with the va educational benefits

but do come study here!!

also - it is often misleading to judge any university by its undergrad programs when you will be pursuing a master"s degree in a specific field of study

[PeaceBlondie]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=97259

is good also

[Storekeeper]

Hey PN: From what I understand my midget Welsh buddy lives close to Payap ... like 10-15 minutes away. So if I go this route then I need to be close enough to be able to pester the heck out of that little bugger

Thanks for not lecturing me on the quality of the program ... I could care less about the quality of the program. The easier the better. I just want to burn up those VA bennies. I do wish Payap had an international doctorate program though.

[PayapIntlAdmissions]

Hello everyone. I don't visit this site much but someone referred this thread to me as it directly relates to what I do. I am the Head of the Office of International Admissions here at Payap University. I took over the position in Oct 2006, so I can't talk to any issues that occurred before that time. While there are some strong indictments about our program(s) that I don't agree with, I certainly welcome the discussion. But to set the record straight, the following are some facts:

• Payap University currently has four International (read classes taught in English) undergraduate programs and four International graduate programs. All are fully accredited with the Thailand Ministry of Education. This accreditation was a recent event and certainly wasn't a given. They ran us through the grinder. As someone correctly pointed out, our International undergrad programs are fairly new (just inside four years) and will be graduating our first graduates this coming May. Our computer and business programs are as strong as any international programs you'll find in Thailand…and are comparable to a typical bachelor's degree program in the west. Our international curriculum is based upon the US model, after all.
  

• Regarding English proficiency, all non-native English speakers are required to pass the TOEFL (or equivalent IELTS) exam. This is really for the students protection. A student with weak English skills will have a difficult time in our international college programs. If they do not have the minimum requirements, we'll require a semester or more in our Intensive English Program (IEP) to prepare them for the undergrad curriculum.
  

• Credits earned in our programs are readily transferable to other universities, although in Thailand, some schools may not be equipped to accept transfer credits (relates to continuing education). But we have exchange students from the USA and other countries every semester and they are able to take their credits earned at Payap directly back home towards their degrees.
  

• Regarding CMU, well they're certainly the biggest and most reputable in Chiang Mai. They're also cheaper than Payap, so it stands to reason that the best students will at least try to get in. We're talking the Thai programs now, not the international ones as CMU has been slow to enter the international scene (quickly changing, however). Payap does have a strong reputation in certain Thai programs, namely law, nursing, and music. The new School of Pharmacy is also garnering rave reviews. Business and hospitality aren't far behind. So to say that Payap receives only rejects from CMU is misleading and grossly unfair to many of the outstanding Thai students in attendance who chose to come.
  

• Regarding the VA (for American vets), we are also VA approved and with a Certificate of Eligibility in hand, I can hook you right up in short order.
  

• Lastly—and more my personal opinion than fact—a bachelor's degree earned at Payap is as good as any other bachelor's degree. Let me explain. While I understand that a Harvard MBA will certainly mean more than the same from say, North Texas State University or some other obscure US school, not every job looks at your education that way. All most employers' care about is that you have a bachelor's degree. Unless you intend to land a job in some high-powered Wall Street firm or teach at Harvard, the source of your degree is secondary. In my previous life, I worked for the US government and I can assure you that the reputation of your school meant little when it comes to senior level GS positions.
  

I would invite anyone interested to visit our website at (www.payap.ac.th/english/) but I'll concede that it needs work. In fact, it's being overhauled as I speak although it'll be a few months before we get the new one online. You can also stop by anytime and talk to our staff at the Office of International Admissions in the Graduate Studies Center, main campus. Regards, Sam.

[PeaceBlondie]

Sam, thanks. I agree about degrees from obscure Texas universities. I made it to GS-12 (a fairly high middle position) with a degree from an unknown uni, alongside a lady with an Ivy League degree (Cornell). Our boss who made it to GS-15 probably graduated from UTEP or Sul Ross (don't even ask ). My son's MBA-Economics from UTSA works fine, too. So, it all depends.

Sam, your school has taken flack on these threads in the past year, so I'll copy your statement onto the Teaching in Thailand thread, as well.

[spectrum]

Good to see you taking part here, Payap Int. Admissions.

I am curious - is it still the case that native English speakers are required to take English classes alongside non-native English speakers, as one poster above stated was his/her experience ?

By the way, IELTS cannot be "passed" or "failed". It is a system which rates students' English language skills, for reading, writing, listening and speaking, on a scale of 0 to 9. What overall IELTS band is minimum for your program ?

Also, what's the minimum TOEFL score ?

Thanks.

P.S. Regarding your last para,

Lastly—and more my personal opinion than fact—a bachelor's degree earned at Payap is as good as any other bachelor's degree. Let me explain. While I understand that a Harvard MBA will certainly mean more than the same from say, North Texas State University or some other obscure US school, not every job looks at your education that way. All most employers' care about is that you have a bachelor's degree. Unless you intend to land a job in some high-powered Wall Street firm or teach at Harvard, the source of your degree is secondary. In my previous life, I worked for the US government and I can assure you that the reputation of your school meant little when it comes to senior level GS positions.

while this may be true (so far as long-term outcomes are concerned) it would not exactly go far in assuring a potential student of the high quality of your program, if high quality is what they are seeking.

Edited January 29, 2007 by spectrum

[meadish_sweetball]

And even more crappy, every student who english is not native, must take a full english course every weekend with the thai students...even the fact that I have degrees from Australia and the UK....way to go, waste of time and money : -) Go CMU if you have the chance!

I am curious - is it still the case that native English speakers are required to take English classes alongside non-native English speakers, as one poster above stated was his/her experience ?

Spectrum, if you meant kash, by his own admission, he is not a native English speaker, although he did state he has degrees from Australia and the UK. Nevertheless, I agree it does seem a bit odd that previous academic merits from two English-speaking countries would not be deemed sufficient to qualify for taking courses taught in English at a Thai university.

Regarding English proficiency, all non-native English speakers are required to pass the TOEFL (or equivalent IELTS) exam. This is really for the students protection. A student with weak English skills will have a difficult time in our international college programs. If they do not have the minimum requirements, we'll require a semester or more in our Intensive English Program (IEP) to prepare them for the undergrad curriculum.

That sounds a bit different from what kash was saying... or is the IEP taught on weekends?

[spectrum]

Spectrum, if you meant kash, by his own admission, he is not a native English speaker, although he did state he has degrees from Australia and the UK. Nevertheless, I agree it does seem a bit odd that previous academic merits from two English-speaking countries would not be deemed sufficient to qualify for taking courses taught in English at a Thai university.

Thanks m_s. My error - completely misread that (possibly because kash's English is, in fact, native-like.)

Indeed, not all native speakers of English would test at the levels Universities require of foreign students . There's an argument for testing everyone, whether native or non-native speaker, with an instrument like IELTS or TOEFL, but of course that's not what usually occurs.

However, the English levels required for overseas students applying to Universities in English-speaking countries usually vary according to the course. Computing/engineering courses are popular with foreign students in English-speaking countries because the language demands are less than those in courses such as Law or Literature. If previous degrees required a lower language level, I can understand the testing and teaching of English skills.

I am also interested in a comment (from the Payap representative) on m_s's other observation :

That sounds a bit different from what kash was saying... or is the IEP taught on weekends?

.

If the students' language levels are inadequate, teaching the content course and the language simultaneously is not good practice. Standard practice is to give intensive language classes until the student tests at the required level. A great money-earner, too .

Edited January 29, 2007 by spectrum

[lannarebirth]

Hey, that's some good marketing : "All most employers' care about is that you have a bachelor's degree" "the source of your degree is secondary."

Anyway, if a resume landed on my desk with a degree from Payap; in the bin it goes. Why should I assume they'd do a better job for me than they did for themselves when seeking an education?

Edited January 29, 2007 by lannarebirth

[up-country_sinclair]

It would be interesting to know how payapintladmissions reacted to this bit....

I could care less about the quality of the program. The easier the better. I just want to burn up those VA bennies. I do wish Payap had an international doctorate program though.

[lannarebirth]

It would be interesting to know how payapintladmissions reacted to this bit....

I could care less about the quality of the program. The easier the better. I just want to burn up those VA bennies. I do wish Payap had an international doctorate program though.

Probably happily, as I believe people like that are the very people they target.

[up-country_sinclair]

Probably happily, as I believe people like that are the very people they target.

i don't have any first hand experience with payap, but i can't imagine that to be true.

in his post payapintladmissions stated his case well...but went a bit far when he claimed their degree is as 'good as any other bachelors degree'. i understand his point about govt. jobs and lesser known american universities but he admitted as much himself when he said that CMU was 'more reputable'.

[lannarebirth]

Probably happily, as I believe people like that are the very people they target.

i don't have any first hand experience with payap, but i can't imagine that to be true.

in his post payapintladmissions stated his case well...but went a bit far when he claimed their degree is as 'good as any other bachelors degree'. i understand his point about govt. jobs and lesser known american universities but he admitted as much himself when he said that CMU was 'more reputable'.

From my knowledge, I know of 2 farangs who sent their bargirl girlfriends there to "clean'em up" and present them as "uni" girls when they returned overseas. Another was a farangs kid, who entered this year. had less than a C average at Int. school (now that's hard) and they took him anway.

[BlackArtemis]

I plan on getting my MA TEFL (now TESOL) at Payap. :shrug: Then when I return to the states I will back that up with a Teaching cert from Pennsylvania. (PA is one of the states that allows you to teach in any state after you get a cert there)

[richard10365]

Hey, that's some good marketing : "All most employers' care about is that you have a bachelor's degree" "the source of your degree is secondary."

Anyway, if a resume landed on my desk with a degree from Payap; in the bin it goes. Why should I assume they'd do a better job for me than they did for themselves when seeking an education?

You get an application from a Thai student who studies totally in English for 4 years, earns a Bachelors degree from it and you throw it in the trash just because it says Payap on it. Maybe you don't need Thai employees who have spent the last 4 years studying a subject totally in English. Maybe you just need foreign employees who earn their degrees from institutions located in countries where English is the native language.

Who your business hires is totally up to your organization but it sure sound potentially flawed. Chances are you might be throwing out applications of individuals who might have the ability to contribute greatly to your organization.

How many graduates from all the other excellent Thai educational institutions have gone on to be successful? How many have failed?

[bungalowbill]

Just got off the phone with Chulalongkorn.

They said they do not accept any transfer credits, and I will have to start as a first semester student.

Sorry, no thanks (I didn't spend 60k USD at a private US Uni to have the credits ALL turned down.

I'm meeting with the dean of BKK Uni tomorrow, and still considering Payap, since BKK only has a BBA in marketing

Payap does accept credits.....I'm attending there now and they accepted and transfered all my credits from two years worth of courses I took in The US..all that is needed is the trancsript of your grades and the course description so they can match them up to the courses that you will be required to take for your particular major.

Edited January 30, 2007 by bungalowbill

[Casanundra]

This all reminds me of a saying that a mentor used to give me on frosty winter nights when I had my head in a book trying to get through the nuances of some obscure mathematical formulae or other and complaining bitterly about the worth of learning such mad mathematics.

"Young man, do you want a degree or an education?"

He was right of course.

I think attending Payap will get you a degree...

Just for info, almost all of the Thai professors at Chulalongkorn University (or at least in my Faculty) have overseas degrees with the vast majority being obtained from Cambridge, Oxford, Harvard, Stanford, Tokyo, and NUS. All of which are recognised as top universities and not one single one of them has a degree from somewhere like payap or the Thai open University or ABAC or any other Sproggit and son type university that is out there either. Now what does that tell you?

You can debate the nuances of getting a VA supported degree all you like but educational snobbery will always be educational snobbery and the higher institutes of quality do put a lot of emphasis on where you got your education and depending on your goals in life, it most certainly is something worth taking into consideration.

Edited January 30, 2007 by Casanundra