President Trump signs order to build Mexico border wall

[sioux2012]

13 hours ago, WaywardWind said:

The man got elected on his campaign promises. Up to this point he is doing everything he said he was going to do during that campaign.

 

your right....even if some people dislike him....he is starting to do what he promised.

 

13 hours ago, WaywardWind said:

Really?

 

Can you forward a copy of his tax returns since you obviously have access to them. 

 

And don't forget to include proof that his assets have been placed in a blind trust to avoid conflicts of interest.

grow up.....such a immature response to someones observation, and clearly an observation shared on this forum by more than this poster.

[funandsuninbangkok]

15 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

And, of course, if Trump goes ahead with pulling out of Nafta, the Mexicans have hinted that they wil no longer hinder Central Americans trying to cross the border into the USA.

In fiscal 2016 the US apprehended 530,000 illegal immigrants entering the US. A majority were from countries OTHER than Mexico, including Iraq, Iran, and other Middle Eastern countries.  

 

Thanks for for the offer of help Mexico but I think we'll take over now. 

 

Any other county on the planet would have build it long ago. 

Edited January 26, 2017 by funandsuninbangkok

[Opl]

12 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

The Wall portion of his decree is by far the least frightening section.

Thanks for the executive order  document you shared in your post ID63

 

In addition to the "immediate" construction of a wall on the border with Mexico, Trump pledged to fight illegal immigration by publishing a weekly list of crimes committed by illegal immigrants.

The aim is to put pressure on what he calls the "sanctuary" cities, namely those that have already expressed their willingness to prevent the evictions of undocumented migrants, such as Los Angeles or New York. The idea is to associate them with the "threats to public security" that would represent the illegal immigrants. Donald Trump has also created an office for victims of crimes committed by expelled immigrants. By the way, the "sanctuary" cities will also be deprived of federal funds.

 

 

The Scariest Portions of Trump’s Big Immigration Executive Orders

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/01/25/the_scariest_portions_of_trump_s_big_immigration_executive_orders.html

 

[Jingthing]

trump said he wanted to build a wall at the Mexican border.

 

Looks like he is building a WAR instead.

 

Has any new president caused this much DAMAGE so quickly?

 

This is how trump deals with a FRIENDLY country, our neighbor, a key trading partner.

 

 

Quote

Trump and America lose again: The Mexico blunder


Sen. Ben Cardin (Md.), the ranking Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee, blasted Trump in a written statement. “Less than one week after taking office, President Trump is already causing serious damage to one of our most important relationships in the world,” Cardin declared. “U.S. national security depends directly on cooperation with our neighbors. From addressing border security and drug trafficking to migration and economic issues, the United States is safer and stronger when we collaborate with Mexico.” He added, “President Trump’s divisive rhetoric and antagonistic policies are undermining our deepest values. His intention to waste billions of taxpayer dollars on a costly border wall that won’t work is misguided and only weakens our standing in the world.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/01/26/trump-and-america-lose-again-the-mexico-blunder/?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-e%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.bd8f3e2508d8

Edited January 26, 2017 by Jingthing

[WaywardWind]

11 hours ago, JackThompson said:

"All" = sell everything, because he knows what the assets are.  How would he put a "Trump Hotel" in a blind-trust?  This is not the same as someone with stocks.  

 

What Dick Cheney did with his Halliburton assets - retained while Halliburton had active govt-contracts generating a fortune on a war - was far more of a direct conflict of interest, yet was permitted by law. 

 

Do you really think, to grab a few measly more bucks, in the twilight of his life, Trump will weaken his presidency?  Be sure he will make a huge show of turning over those checks to show what a "great guy" he is.  Think about it.

He already is profiteering: the membership fee for the Mar-e-Largo club (which Trump owns in its entirety) was doubled from $100,000 to $200,000 effective 1 January 2017.

[funandsuninbangkok]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

trump said he wanted to build a wall at the Mexican border.

 

Looks like he is building a WAR instead.

 

Has any new president caused this much DAMAGE so quickly?

 

This is how trump deals with a FRIENDLY country, our neighbor, a key trading partner.

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/01/26/trump-and-america-lose-again-the-mexico-blunder/?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-e%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.bd8f3e2508d8

Only people who read Slate and WP would believe walls don't work. Why do they put them around prisons then?

 

mexico is a kleptocracy that has exported their own problems into the US for decades. Now they will have to deal with them. The feast is over baby!  Here comes the bill!

[WaywardWind]

6 hours ago, sioux2012 said:

19 hours ago, WaywardWind said:

The man got elected on his campaign promises. Up to this point he is doing everything he said he was going to do during that campaign.

 

your right....even if some people dislike him....he is starting to do what he promised.

 

19 hours ago, WaywardWind said:

Really?

 

Can you forward a copy of his tax returns since you obviously have access to them. 

 

And don't forget to include proof that his assets have been placed in a blind trust to avoid conflicts of interest.

grow up.....such a immature response to someones observation, and clearly an observation shared on this forum by more than this poster

You have edited the original post to which I had responded to make it appear that those obnoxious words were mine...that violates board rules and I hope the moderators take note...

 

As to your response, you are the one who needs to grow up....he made dozens of promises during the campaign, including ones which concerned his assets and release of his financial information, both of which he has now reneged upon.

 

However, you choose to focus only on the negative promises: building the wall, the Muslim ban, etc. Good luck with those - they will not work, and will not come to pass.

[Thakkar]

58 minutes ago, WaywardWind said:

He already is profiteering: the membership fee for the Mar-e-Largo club (which Trump owns in its entirety) was doubled from $100,000 to $200,000 effective 1 January 2017.

As a businessman, Trump's great at cutting out the middleman. 

 

Any corporation or foreign government wanting to bribe him can now easily & safely do so just by buying a whole bunch of memberships. No need to go through lobbyists whose activities are at least somewhat regulated and whose contributions and meetings are semi public records.

 

Buy 20 "memberships" then tell one of the sons what you want Trump to do. Son tells Trump at dinner time. Ka-Ching!

 

I could short a share. Tell trump to send out a tweet that would drop the share price. Easy money for everyone. 

 

Thats tge the absolute LEAST corrupt thing that could happen. 

[puck2]

10 hours ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

In fiscal 2016 the US apprehended 530,000 illegal immigrants entering the US. A majority were from countries OTHER than Mexico, including Iraq, Iran, and other Middle Eastern countries.  

 

Thanks for for the offer of help Mexico but I think we'll take over now. 

 

Any other county on the planet would have build it long ago. 

You are right.

The former communist DDR (= German "Democratic" Republic) did it to protect itself against the "enemy".

Trump does it now to protect his trumpis(s)m.

 

His schizoide character is going to become obvious day by day. Only one example. These before tolerated illegal immigrants are only a tiny part involved in US crimes. If he would be consequent in fighting crimes he initially had to fight the gun crimes in the USA, the absolutely highest in the world.

 

BTW, why does he not mind all illegal immigrants? The not-criminal immigrants seem to be very useful for the US economy, although they are illegal. Schizo-demeanor, illegal immigration is legal, if useful. What did we hear from Trump's underlings: there is an alternativ truth. The USA will need a new dictionary under Trump.

Edited January 27, 2017 by puck2

[lkn]

4 hours ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Only people who read Slate and WP would believe walls don't work. Why do they put them around prisons then?

You cannot buy ladders, rope, and bolt cutters in the prison shop, but you can in Mexico.

 

You cannot walk up to the prison guard and ask for asylum outside, yet this is actually how most immigrants enter the U.S. They do not climb the existing fence, they just tell the border guard that they are refugees and their life is in danger. They will get a hearing date, but because the system is backed up, it will be many years out into the future, at which point they are nowhere to be found.

Edited January 27, 2017 by lkn
Grammar

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, Thakkar said:

As a businessman, Trump's great at cutting out the middleman. 

 

Any corporation or foreign government wanting to bribe him can now easily & safely do so just by buying a whole bunch of memberships. No need to go through lobbyists whose activities are at least somewhat regulated and whose contributions and meetings are semi public records.

 

Buy 20 "memberships" then tell one of the sons what you want Trump to do. Son tells Trump at dinner time. Ka-Ching!

 

I could short a share. Tell trump to send out a tweet that would drop the share price. Easy money for everyone. 

 

Thats tge the absolute LEAST corrupt thing that could happen. 

And no one in the press would "follow the money" and put this on the front page of one of the many newspapers whose owners profit from the trade and immigration policies Trump is opposing?  If they have facts, it would stick.

 

The people opposed to Trump's policies - a bi-partisan cabal - have a lot of money, and a lot at stake in preserving the status-quo (killing the American Dream / blue-collar middle-class).  They already have David Brock (Media Matters) financed with a "war room" to find any tidbit of corruption on Trump and blow it up into a huge story.  Trump knows this.

 

Note that I am not making the argument that he is a "good guy" who "is above doing something like profiteering."  I am saying he is not going to walk into an obvious trap.  The belief that Trump is going to "get away with" using the presidency to get rich - the way the Clintons used the Lincoln Bedroom and the State Dept - while Trump's enemies are watching intently, seems highly unlikely.

[JackThompson]

5 minutes ago, puck2 said:

You are right.

The former communist DDR (= German "Democratic" Republic) did it to protect itself against the "enemy".

Trump does it now to protect his trumpis(s)m.

 

His schizoide character is going to become obvious day by day. Only one example. These before tolerated illegal immigrants are only a tiny part involved in US crimes. If he would be consequent in fighting crimes he initially had to fight the gun crimes in the USA, the absolutely highest in the world.

 

BTW, why does he not mind all illegal immigrants? The not-criminal immigrants seem to be very useful for the US economy, although they are illegal. Schizo-demeanor, illegal immigration is legal, if useful. What did we hear from Trump's underlings: there is an alternativ truth. The USA will need a new dictionary under Trump.

 

The East-German DDR's wall was to keep people "in" - not "out".  If Americans were getting shot trying to escape the USA, I would agree, but they aren't.

 

On "gun crimes" - I assume you are adopting the position of disarming the lawful people, who would abide by "gun laws"?  Note that "victim-disarmament zones" (so-called gun-free zones - but not "gun free" for the criminal) are where the worst mass-murder gun-crimes occur.

 

It will be sad if Trump does not keep his word completely, as defined precisely in his speech in Arizona, upon returning from his meeting in Mexico, and enforce All Immigration Laws as currently written.  This talk of "working with Congress" to allow some illegal-aliens to remain in the country and continue to occupy careers and university-slots, while American citizens are unemployed and/or underemployed, is horrible. 

[Thakkar]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

And no one in the press would "follow the money" and put this on the front page of one of the many newspapers whose owners profit from the trade and immigration policies Trump is opposing?  If they have facts, it would stick.

 

The people opposed to Trump's policies - a bi-partisan cabal - have a lot of money, and a lot at stake in preserving the status-quo (killing the American Dream / blue-collar middle-class).  They already have David Brock (Media Matters) financed with a "war room" to find any tidbit of corruption on Trump and blow it up into a huge story.  Trump knows this.

 

Note that I am not making the argument that he is a "good guy" who "is above doing something like profiteering."  I am saying he is not going to walk into an obvious trap.  The belief that Trump is going to "get away with" using the presidency to get rich - the way the Clintons used the Lincoln Bedroom and the State Dept - while Trump's enemies are watching intently, seems highly unlikely.

Let's hope you are right. 

 

For the sake sake of brevity, I laid out a simple scenario. In practice, no doubt things would be a lot more circumspect.

 

All I'm say is that if, the otherwise perfectly honest man that Trump is, wanted to be corrupt, he has already got the perfect infrastructure in place to do so. Better than any previous president could dream of. Not having released his tax returns also means that a lot of his businesses simply can't be tracked since no one knows what those businesses are.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Thakkar

[funandsuninbangkok]

2 hours ago, lkn said:

You cannot buy ladders, rope, and bolt cutters in the prison shop, but you can in Mexico.

 

You cannot walk up to the prison guard and ask for asylum outside, yet this is actually how most immigrants enter the U.S. They do not climb the existing fence, they just tell the border guard that they are refugees and their life is in danger. They will get a hearing date, but because the system is backed up, it will be many years out into the future, at which point they are nowhere to be found.

 

Ah!  The old ladder and rope trick!  Border Patrol will be completely bamboozaled!  

 

Yesterday Trump ordered the shut down most bogus asylum claims. Back to the real world now. Must claim asylum in first county you flee to, not one you favor. 

 

All those Central Americans with sob stories at the U S border will now be given Mexico's asylum program phone number. 

 

Viva Estados Unitos!

[Opl]

A new wave of immigration to America

 

"More than a third of the detainees being held in California immigration holding centers in September 2016 were from outside Latin America, U.S. officials say.   The number of long-distance migrants arriving here in Tijuana pales in comparison to the hundreds of thousands of Latin Americans who pass through each year. But the surge is challenging authorities on both sides of the border, who face difficulties accommodating so many people, languages and cultures."

 

http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fg-immigration-trek-america-tijuana/

Edited January 27, 2017 by Opl

[lkn]

2 hours ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Ah!  The old ladder and rope trick!  Border Patrol will be completely bamboozaled!  

If ropes and ladders are no issue for a wall, then what is the issue with the current fence?

 

As for rejecting asylum seekers, that can already be done without having to spend money on a wall.

 

[mrfill]

Well, if a 20% import tariff on Mexican goods is implemented (as is now suggested) it will mean higher prices for avocados in the US. And who will pay the increased price? Why, the American consumer, by way of this import tax.

[jcsmith]

Mexico is the third largest trading partner to the U.S.A. so a tariff on goods from Mexico would cost consumers a lot of money. It's more than avacados and beer, though Mexico is the second largest provider of American agriculture products. It's also machine, electrical and appliance parts, medical instruments, and quite a bit more than you'd think.
 

It would open opportunities for big business to fill some of the roles of goods that were imported, but due to higher labor costs, in the end it still means rising prices to the consumers. Like most of Trump's moves this would benefit the wealthy and damage everyone else.

Edited January 27, 2017 by jcsmith

[Chip Allen]

I have started identifying myself as Canadian. The Russians, Brits, Canadians and Australians who live in Thailand are laughing at Americans for electing this carnival barker as King. I have never been so ashamed to be  a Yank. Has ANY other country screwed up this badly??

[Chip Allen]

5 hours ago, puck2 said:

 

His schizoid character is going to become obvious day by day. Only one example. These before tolerated illegal immigrants are only a tiny part involved in US crimes. If he would be consequent in fighting crimes he initially had to fight the gun crimes in the USA, the absolutely highest in the world.

 

 

Not so sure he is "schizoid". He shows all the signs of being a sociopath. Narcissism is only part of the picture.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Chip Allen

[optad]

4 minutes ago, Chip Allen said:

Not so sure he is "schizoid". He shows all the signs of being a sociopath. Narciscism is only part of the picture.

He shows all the signs of being a narcissistic sociopath. Would not surprise me if he is functioning on the Asperger's spectrum too.  

 

 

[Jingthing]

I have started identifying myself as Canadian. The Russians, Brits, Canadians and Australians who live in Thailand are laughing at Americans for electing this carnival barker as King. I have never been so ashamed to be  a Yank. Has ANY other country screwed up this badly??

That is the best way to learn the truth about what people think because many people will be polite when you say you're American.

[Jingthing]

Not so sure he is "schizoid". He shows all the signs of being a sociopath. Narcissism is only part of the picture.

He's so unbalanced that he makes people having to deal with his insanity schizoid.

[Rob13]

A wall won't keep anybody out, just slow them down a little. A better approach would be to deal with the the reason they're crossing the borders in the first place  and go after the people employing the  illegal workers. Cheaper, easier and it'd bring in some revenue in the form of fines.

 

If he really wants to spend gov't money on construction projects maybe he could start with the infrastructure; plenty of bridges in need of repair.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Rob13

[Jingthing]

Better guest worker programs too. Citizens don't want to pick crops and wash dishes. Imagine the price of food without migrant labor.

[Chip Allen]

20 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Better guest worker programs too. Citizens don't want to pick crops and wash dishes. Imagine the price of food without migrant labor.

Exactly.  The "illegal immigrant problem".....is no problem. It is the mirror image of the "overstay problem" created by Thai bureaucrats. Illegal immigrants BENEFIT the US economy, just as western retirees and workers benefit the Thai economy. The "problems" are purely the creation of Thai authorities. They do not exist in any real sense. The idea of "making it worse for the rest of us" is just an extension of this simple-minded thinking that is completely rooted in xenophobia and nationalism.

[optad]

8 minutes ago, Rob13 said:

A wall won't keep anybody out, just slow them down a little. A better approach would be to deal with the the reason they're crossing the borders in the first place  and go after the people employing the  illegal workers. Cheaper, easier and it'd bring in some revenue in the form of fines.

 

If he really wants to spend gov't money on construction projects maybe he could start with the infrastructure; plenty of bridges in need of repair.

Rob, why would you apply sense to something inspired by xenophobic emotions?

 

A wall has never kept anyone in or out regardless but Trump getting puerile on election issues and demanding Mexico pay, is over the top. Retorting with a tariff, is just offensive to good neighbor anyhow. Cannot analogous these actions.

 

How will Donald be in a serious issue like the south china seas? Too impetus or too loaded with lobbyists? Hard to know. We are having this conversation in Australia regularly atm. Since 1943/4 and the battle for the Coral Sea, New Guinea and Guadalcanal, post bombing of Darwin and japanese subs in southern harbors in Australian cities, the American alliance has been key, the paramount foreign policy relationship. In return Australia has been a good friend of the US in its adventures from Korea, Vietnam and wherever else the state department has found cause to get aggressive. 

 

I doubt the relationship will intrinsically change, however, it is being fundamentally reassessed as adherence to a president who cannot be predicted has elicited distancing p'sov and less axiomatic definitions of the alliance's role. 

 

[rijb]

3 hours ago, Chip Allen said:

I have started identifying myself as Canadian. The Russians, Brits, Canadians and Australians who live in Thailand are laughing at Americans for electing this carnival barker as King. I have never been so ashamed to be  a Yank. Has ANY other country screwed up this badly??

What do you have against Canadians?  If you're going to wuss out, make up a nationality.  

 

But, it won't stop people from laughing at you.  

[farcanell]

3 hours ago, lkn said:

If ropes and ladders are no issue for a wall, then what is the issue with the current fence?

 

As for rejecting asylum seekers, that can already be done without having to spend money on a wall.

 

Ah.... it's not long enough???

[farcanell]

3 hours ago, Chip Allen said:

I have started identifying myself as Canadian. The Russians, Brits, Canadians and Australians who live in Thailand are laughing at Americans for electing this carnival barker as King. I have never been so ashamed to be  a Yank. Has ANY other country screwed up this badly??

Mmm... not only smarter than me, but now your also turning your back on your own kind... well done.... my puny intellect will never allow me to disavow my country.