New Bill: Punishment Against Beggar Gangsters

[george]

New Bill: Punishment against beggar gangsters

BANGKOK: -- "The key parts in the new bill are about punishments against those who force others to become beggars," an informed source at the Government House disclosed Monday.

According to the bill, anyone who seriously injure other person for begging benefits will face up to 10 years in jail and a maximum fine of Bt160,000. The punishments will be harsher if the assaults are made against children aged under 18 years old, the elderly, ailing people or pregnant women.

The bill prescribes up to three-year jail term and a maximum fine of Bt60,000 for those who encourage, hire, intimidate or force others to beg for money.

If this bill becomes enforceable, it will replace the Beggar Control Act of 1941.

Legislated more than half a century ago, the act did not cover the emergence of gangs reaping benefits by forcing others to become beggars.

The new bill will only issue warnings to beggars who beg on street for a living on the first arrest. Repeated offenders, according to the bill, will be sent to welfare centres or employment offices.

-- The Nation 2006-12-12

[sonnyJ]

Now, how many coups it took to figure this one out?

Now let's see it enforced, if it passes that is..

[Tony Clifton]

up to three-year jail term and a maximum fine of Bt60,000.

How long does it take a bunch of enslaved beggars to collect 60 000 baht? Even the maximum of three years is not enough.

Edited December 12, 2006 by Tony Clifton

[Scott]

The key parts in the new bill are about punishments against those who force others to become beggars,"

So does that mean that the gov't can be punished, since a lot of their policies "force other to become beggars."

[The Coder]

It's not the govt fault people become beggars. It is the fault of people giving money to them creating this career opportunity for the pitiful and inevitable interest by gangs to capitalize. There are better places for the people you see begging. They shouldn't be on the hot, filthy streets and wouldn't be there if people didn't think "oh how pitiful" and throw money at them all the time. When the giving stops, the begging can too.

[Tornado]

I think a person who cuts off a persons legs and arms, so they can profit, should be shot..

I spoke with a beggar quite a few years ago and his story was repulsive. The "mafia" cut off his arms and legs when he was an infant and put him another womans arms to sit on the streets to make money for these mongrels. The worst part of the story for me, was that his parents let this happen because they were paid.

A life for a life, I say.

[dvk1951]

Coder,

Agree 100%, why limit it to just beggers, let's stamp out caring and compassion throughout the world.

Yup one of the best known marketing strategies, eliminate the buyers and the sellers will disappear.

It's not the govt fault people become beggars. It is the fault of people giving money to them creating this career opportunity for the pitiful and inevitable interest by gangs to capitalize. There are better places for the people you see begging. They shouldn't be on the hot, filthy streets and wouldn't be there if people didn't think "oh how pitiful" and throw money at them all the time. When the giving stops, the begging can too.

edited to remove the excessive satire

Edited December 13, 2006 by dvk1951

[astral]

The penalty should be much harder on the pocket, 600K max would be closer to a reasonable mark.

[The Coder]

Agree 100%, why limit it to just beggers, let's stamp out caring and compassion throughout the world.

Giving to beggars gives gratification only to those who do not think about the long term consequences of their act. If you genuinely care about these people, throwing money at them is the worst thing you can do. They deserve better than be shackled by naive do gooders to such a terrible existence. Kind of ironic the ones thinking they are helping are the ones creating the miserable existence of so many. It’s always interesting to see what opens the pockets of do gooders, now it is pupply dogs beside the beggars. Care and compassion is concern past the 10 baht coin, not a drop and forget bandaid so you can go on with your life thinking you made a difference when you actually make it worse.

[Spenthouse]

why do we need such a bill in the country with lowest unemployment?

[pedro01]

Not all beggars are forced. I think that not giving to all beggars isn't the way to go.

Some of those on Silom Rd ARE forced - there are a number of young adults with mental problems there - around Soi Convent. They are dropped of in the morning & collected at night. It is an absolute disgrace. No $ from me.

That old girl in the mornings at the bottom of SalaDaeng BTS needs to be told to move on - there's nothing wrong with her - she's well dressed, a scam artist. No $ from me.

The guy with the burns on Silom Rd is doing it of his own free will - he's OK - just can't work 'cause he freaks people out. Gets $ from me.

The bands of blind musicians that sit outside Silom Complex occasionally are quite good & get my money. I don't know that they are forced - seems to me they would have not much chance of work & that blind girl with no eyes (just skin over where they should be) was born that way, not butchered. So they get my $.

Anyone with a severe physical disability/leprosy I will give a few Baht too - anyone that comes begging that has 2 hands, feet & could work gets told to look elsewhere. Anyone old and frail - perhaps no kids to support them - I have no problem with that.

Young kids at intersections are forced, same as those selling gum around the red light districts - they do not get my $$$.

I think you have to judge each case on it's own merits. You cannot say all beggars in Bangkok are forced. You just have to use your judgement - I am sure I get it wrong sometimes too.

[The Skipper]

Remember,

You are not helping poor when you drop money in the cup.

You are buying cold beer, women, cars, etc for the punks that run this disgusting enterprise.

Street punk travel far and wide to locate the most pitifull/repulsive specimens they can find and plop them off in the Tourist /Business district, then collect them at days end. The beggars don't get to keep much.

Any beggar not on the team gets told to move along by the cops or bosses.

Say, 10 baht per minute going into the cup =600/hour x 16 hours a day = 9,600 baht /day.

I'm guessing they have at least 100 spots =960,000baht /day.

It's a shame that there is that much generosity out there and hardly any actually gets to the poor.

[kmart]

Only thing I've ever given them is a bit of food. I gave a deformed old gal a couple of yogurt tubs, and she was seemingly pleased. At least she got to eat them herself.

The people that create this misery should be shot, imo.

[mittheimp]

yes, good advice I suppose is to buy these poor people a 20B plate of rice otherwise dont give and give to a decent charity helping the homeless in BKK.

Anyone know any?

[Scott]

There aren't very many people who make a "career choice" of begging. It is an extremely demeaning way to get money.

I've lived here for close to 20 years and I've seen some of these beggars go from young beggars to old beggars. I also watched the motorcycle taxi driver who used to give me a ride to work every morning (and earned OK money and took care of his family), but suffered from leoprosy, lose his feet (toes first and on up) then finger tips and finally fingers.

This guy worked 7 days a week, long days and did his job well. He can no longer drive and he is a beggar.

I don't think this is by choice.

[brahmburgers]

I give on a per-case basis. It I see a little kid jumping from place to place in a farang hangout area - I'll assume he/she is being used by adults to rake in money. In contrast, if I see someone in obvious need, I donate. Just as often, I give to needy people who are NOT begging. Example: the raggety trash-pickers/recyclers with bedraggled kids hanging on the sides of their carts - I'll give 20 to 50 baht. because it's likely the money will be used smartly - plus it gives a slight encouragement to A.not beg, and B.develop their gig, even if it's on the lowest rung of the ladder.

On the opposite end of the spectrum are families like the Shinawatras - who lie and cheat to suck in major portions of Thai wealth/resources - and give as little back as possible.

[isaanbrit]

I do agree about the whole gangster problem, very shiddy situation.

But another related point (not talking about the gangsters though,) the other day I gave some baht to some dude and my friend said "dude, he's just gonna spend that on beer and fags"

My reply was: "well, just 'cause he's poor and got a skin disease (good points pedro 1) why shouldnt he be allowed to enjoy a few drinks, if I was on the street i'd need a couple of bevvy's to get me through"

The same goes with kids who take your money and spend it in computer shops playing games. Just cause there poorer than other kids, why shouldnt they be allowed to play computer games? Especially as they can't exactly go through life without having the prospect rammed down there faces all over the place.

We does everyone think that people who are legitimate beggars should only spend their collected money on food?????

Remember,

You are not helping poor when you drop money in the cup.

You are buying cold beer, women, cars, etc for the punks that run this disgusting enterprise.

Street punk travel far and wide to locate the most pitifull/repulsive specimens they can find and plop them off in the Tourist /Business district, then collect them at days end. The beggars don't get to keep much.

Any beggar not on the team gets told to move along by the cops or bosses.

Say, 10 baht per minute going into the cup =600/hour x 16 hours a day = 9,600 baht /day.

I'm guessing they have at least 100 spots =960,000baht /day.

It's a shame that there is that much generosity out there and hardly any actually gets to the poor.

[isaanbrit]

I give on a per-case basis. It I see a little kid jumping from place to place in a farang hangout area - I'll assume he/she is being used by adults to rake in money. In contrast, if I see someone in obvious need, I donate. Just as often, I give to needy people who are NOT begging. Example: the raggety trash-pickers/recyclers with bedraggled kids hanging on the sides of their carts - I'll give 20 to 50 baht. because it's likely the money will be used smartly - plus it gives a slight encouragement to A.not beg, and B.develop their gig, even if it's on the lowest rung of the ladder.

On the opposite end of the spectrum are families like the Shinawatras - who lie and cheat to suck in major portions of Thai wealth/resources - and give as little back as possible.

How does giving them money encourage them to not beg? Surely their thinking - wow I can get 50 baht no problem without pushing this cart around all day - bukker this - I'll just beg :-)

Edited December 14, 2006 by isaanbrit

[isaanbrit]

I give on a per-case basis. It I see a little kid jumping from place to place in a farang hangout area - I'll assume he/she is being used by adults to rake in money. In contrast, if I see someone in obvious need, I donate. Just as often, I give to needy people who are NOT begging. Example: the raggety trash-pickers/recyclers with bedraggled kids hanging on the sides of their carts - I'll give 20 to 50 baht. because it's likely the money will be used smartly - plus it gives a slight encouragement to A.not beg, and B.develop their gig, even if it's on the lowest rung of the ladder.

On the opposite end of the spectrum are families like the Shinawatras - who lie and cheat to suck in major portions of Thai wealth/resources - and give as little back as possible.

How does giving them money encourage them to not beg? Surely there thinking - wow I can get 50 baht no problem without pushing this cart around all day - bukker this - I'll just beg :-)

[Tony Clifton]

On the opposite end of the spectrum are families like the Shinawatras - who lie and cheat to suck in major portions of Thai wealth/resources - and give as little back as possible.

They'll be begging for forgiveness soon.

[The Coder]

My understanding is the thai govt has a place for these people and provides them food, shelter, and help. They refuse to stay there, but rather make a beeline right back to people throwing money at them. So a sweat shop career going nowhere for the pitiful is created and supported by charitable givers. I also recall for APEC hundreds of Cambodian beggars in Bangkok were rounded up and sent back to cambodia in an effort to clean up the streets. As far as I can tell, the same ones made their way back to get their hand under the money again.

Similar is the little kids selling flowers. Several times I have seen people with their heart in the right place giving them substantial money to go home. Unfortunately, it just solidifies them being stuck in that line of work and these stories inevitably draw others children into it.

Same with elephants in Bangkok. I really want to give them food, but now I know better.