Britain's Brexit bill clears first legislative hurdle

[7by7]

36 minutes ago, teatree said:

It is very simple.

 

The Commission proposes regulations, which are then rubber stamped by the EU parliament and then become law throughout the EU.  The UK parliament has no say on the matter and this is where the lack of sovereignty is.

 

The Commission proposals new laws in the same way that the British civil service does; but it can't make laws.

 

Only the Council and Parliament can do that, and, of course, the UK is represented on both; see link in my previous.

 

From UK Membership in the European Union: Undermining Parliamentary Sovereignty? (page 2)

Quote

Parliamentary Sovereignty Remains Intact

To suggest that the European Union undermines Parliamentary sovereignty ignores the foundations of British constitutional law and the realities of the geopolitical world. Legislative sovereignty in Parliament, due to the lack of a codified constitution, can never truly be challenged. No Parliament can restrict the sovereignty of future Parliaments, thus making any delegation of power to the European Union voluntary and ultimately retractable. And while in some cases reversing certain types of legislation would come at enormous political and economic cost, the legal right of Parliament to do so remains intact regardless.

These delegated powers to the European Union, although a voluntary reduction in Parliamentary power, are also monitored by a number of scrutiny institutions both within the House of Commons and House of Lords. Such safeguards provide a check on EU power, and strengthen Parliament’s ability to supervise its delegated legislation.

 

Also, the EU only legislates on matters effecting the EU; all other matters, such as defence, foreign policy etc., are entirely the concern of the individual member state's government. Although, of course, in some matters we, like the others, seek a consensus with our allies; whoever they may be.

 

Indeed, the terms of our membership of other organisations, such as NATO, the WTO etc., has effected British sovereignty in exactly the same way as membership of the EU has! Because parliament has delegated it in the areas covered by those organisations to those organisations.

 

But whichever organisation we are talking about; the UK Parliament remains supreme because it has only delegated those powers, and can take them back at any time.

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

The Commission proposals new laws in the same way that the British civil service does; but it can't make laws.

 

Only the Council and Parliament can do that, and, of course, the UK is represented on both; see link in my previous.

 

From UK Membership in the European Union: Undermining Parliamentary Sovereignty? (page 2)

 

Also, the EU only legislates on matters effecting the EU; all other matters, such as defence, foreign policy etc., are entirely the concern of the individual member state's government. Although, of course, in some matters we, like the others, seek a consensus with our allies; whoever they may be.

 

Indeed, the terms of our membership of other organisations, such as NATO, the WTO etc., has effected British sovereignty in exactly the same way as membership of the EU has! Because parliament has delegated it in the areas covered by those organisations to those organisations.

 

But whichever organisation we are talking about; the UK Parliament remains supreme because it has only delegated those powers, and can take them back at any time.

Thank you for that clear explanation!

[jpinx]

13 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

The Commission proposals new laws in the same way that the British civil service does; but it can't make laws.

 

Only the Council and Parliament can do that, and, of course, the UK is represented on both; see link in my previous.

 

From UK Membership in the European Union: Undermining Parliamentary Sovereignty? (page 2)

 

Also, the EU only legislates on matters effecting the EU; all other matters, such as defence, foreign policy etc., are entirely the concern of the individual member state's government. Although, of course, in some matters we, like the others, seek a consensus with our allies; whoever they may be.

 

Indeed, the terms of our membership of other organisations, such as NATO, the WTO etc., has effected British sovereignty in exactly the same way as membership of the EU has! Because parliament has delegated it in the areas covered by those organisations to those organisations.

 

But whichever organisation we are talking about; the UK Parliament remains supreme because it has only delegated those powers, and can take them back at any time.

"........ at any time "  ?   Great - can we have them back tomorrow morning ? :)

[7by7]

3 minutes ago, jpinx said:

"........ at any time "  ?   Great - can we have them back tomorrow morning ? :)

 

The process will, of course, take time; but as the quote from my previous link says

Quote

And while in some cases reversing certain types of legislation would come at enormous political and economic cost, the legal right of Parliament to do so remains intact regardless.

 

Once Article 50 is triggered, we will have started the process as far as the EU is concerned.

 

From which other organisations would you like us to take back the powers we have delegated?

 

 

[Laughing Gravy]

On ‎04‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 5:05 PM, 7by7 said:

 If your crystal ball is as accurate as you think, can you give me next week's lottery numbers?

Just put all the money on you have  you will be a winner.

 

Your pessimism is typical.

[7by7]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Just put all the money on you have  you will be a winner.

On what? Your prediction that in 10 years the UK economy will be

 

On ‎03‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 11:31 PM, Laughing Gravy said:

doing much better than it did whilst in the EU

or the lottery?

 

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Your pessimism is typical.

Typical of whom?

 

I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist.

 

A quality you seem to lack; as all your posts show that you swallowed all the lies of the Brexit campaign hook, line and sinker (forgive the pun) the latest example being the nonsense you spouted about fishing. That you leap on any positive economic move and every positive economic prediction since the referendum as proof that Brexit is right, whilst ignoring all the negative ones.

 

As has been said many times by many people, experts and laymen; it is impossible to accurately predict what will happen to the UK economy post Brexit: the ups and downs since the result of the referendum are no guide to the future,

 

Both positive and negative predictions are merely predictions. What will happen to the UK economy in the future not only depends on what deals we can do with both the EU and others over trade but also on many other factors, most of which are outside our control; such as the world economy as a whole.

 

The 2008 recession was the worst since the war. It had little to do with the EU; it was a world wide recession. The origins of the financial crisis

 

One could argue, as The Economist does, that the European Central Bank could and should have done more to reduce it's effects on the Euro and so in the Eurozone; but as the UK is not in the Eurozone and never has been, that would have had little, if any, effect here.

 

You may be right, the UK economy may go from strength to strength post Brexit; but you could equally be totally wrong.

 

 

[Laughing Gravy]

21 hours ago, 7by7 said:

On what? Your prediction that in 10 years the UK economy will be

 

or the lottery?

 

Typical of whom?

 

I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist.

 

A quality you seem to lack; as all your posts show that you swallowed all the lies of the Brexit campaign hook, line and sinker (forgive the pun) the latest example being the nonsense you spouted about fishing. That you leap on any positive economic move and every positive economic prediction since the referendum as proof that Brexit is right, whilst ignoring all the negative ones.

 

As has been said many times by many people, experts and laymen; it is impossible to accurately predict what will happen to the UK economy post Brexit: the ups and downs since the result of the referendum are no guide to the future,

 

Both positive and negative predictions are merely predictions. What will happen to the UK economy in the future not only depends on what deals we can do with both the EU and others over trade but also on many other factors, most of which are outside our control; such as the world economy as a whole.

 

The 2008 recession was the worst since the war. It had little to do with the EU; it was a world wide recession. The origins of the financial crisis

 

One could argue, as The Economist does, that the European Central Bank could and should have done more to reduce it's effects on the Euro and so in the Eurozone; but as the UK is not in the Eurozone and never has been, that would have had little, if any, effect here.

 

You may be right, the UK economy may go from strength to strength post Brexit; but you could equally be totally wrong.

 

 

You certainly sound bitter. Take a chill pill and relax. As you have all the answers then you have nothing to worry about do you.

FYI, I would have voted out of the EU in the 1980s if there was an opportunity, once I saw what the then common market was becoming, So no I didn't swallow anything on the referendum. The EU is nothing more than a dictatorship and club that is about control. If you are happy about that, then why don't you go and find one of the 27 countries that are left in the EU and live there, as you are so upset that the UK is leaving. I would hurry up whilst there are some countries left.

 

[jpinx]

2 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

You certainly sound bitter. Take a chill pill and relax. As you have all the answers then you have nothing to worry about do you.

FYI, I would have voted out of the EU in the 1980s if there was an opportunity, once I saw what the then common market was becoming, So no I didn't swallow anything on the referendum. The EU is nothing more than a dictatorship and club that is about control. If you are happy about that, then why don't you go and find one of the 27 countries that are left in the EU and live there, as you are so upset that the UK is leaving. I would hurry up whilst there are some countries left.

 

Don't go to France or Holland.... 

[Laughing Gravy]

6 minutes ago, jpinx said:

Don't go to France or Holland.... 

[7by7]

3 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

You certainly sound bitter. Take a chill pill and relax.

 Not bitter.

 

Although I still believe that we would be better in the EU than out, I have, as I have said many times, accepted the result.

 

3 hours ago, jpinx said:

As you have all the answers then you have nothing to worry about do you.

I do not have all, or indeed any, answers about the future.

 

I am worried, yes; we don't know what the future holds. But you seem just as, if not more, worried; as evidenced by your continuous attempts to convince yourself that the voters made the right decision last June.

[jpinx]

4 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Not bitter.

 

Although I still believe that we would be better in the EU than out, I have, as I have said many times, accepted the result.

 

I do not have all, or indeed any, answers about the future.

 

I am worried, yes; we don't know what the future holds. But you seem just as, if not more, worried; as evidenced by your continuous attempts to convince yourself that the voters made the right decision last June.

".....I do not have all, or indeed any, answers about the future....."  --  there you have it.

 

Actually you *do* have answers, because you have a much better than average grasp of the current laws, rules, and regulations.  Because of this knowledge you are well positioned to know what needs to be changed in order to make this Brexit thing work well, and not leave a bitter taste in mouths anywhere.  It's a serious bit of juggling, the prime aim is to brexit, but that does not mean to ride rough-shop over the remainers, and we also need to stay on geed terms with EU because we need a healthy trading neighbour. 

 

There is a natural fear of the unknown when there is so much at stake, and so much of the existing rulebook to rewrite.  Here's hoping the brexit team are clever enough to be brave.......

[Laughing Gravy]

13 hours ago, jpinx said:

There is a natural fear of the unknown when there is so much at stake, and so much of the existing rulebook to rewrite.  Here's hoping the brexit team are clever enough to be brave.......

These are very wise words and I agree. I am hoping for the day that those who voted remain and leave can start working together and not wanting or hoping for the UK to go into a recession so a justification and victory can be said by saying ' we told you so'.

 

I won't go back into the whole why we should leave but the fact is we are so do the best job possible for the UK.

[dick dasterdly]

On 2/7/2017 at 2:08 PM, jpinx said:

Don't go to France or Holland.... 

I expect its the same as when I visited Ireland many decades ago.

 

Had a great time and was only really worried whilst in a bar (we'd been happily chatting to the owner), and the TV showed a news item about Bobby Sands dying. The bar owner quickly warned us to keep quiet, not that we needed warning .