Australian PM describes frank call with Trump after Washington Post reports angry exchange

[giddyup]

2 minutes ago, JaySonic said:

Dubai is a Muslim country in which the locals are a minority. Over 85% of Dubai's population are transients and expats. No discrimination against religion there. 

9% are actually Christian.

[mikebike]

Dubai is a Muslim country in which the locals are a minority. Over 85% of Dubai's population are transients and expats. No discrimination against religion there. 

You should ask Shia in UAE about religious discrimination.

[IAMHERE]

Oh, I see the headlines now; Australia gets in bed with new allies China and Russia. Sure, get in a huff and end your relations with the USA. It'll turn out great for Australia in the end, I am positive.

Australia did not want those 1200 Muslims and got America to accept them. Good trade off for Australia, bad end of the stick for the USA. I.E. it was a good deal for Australia and not so much for America. Why would Australian PM get upset that Trump pointed out to him the Australians got the better deal? Heck, isn't that a compliment in the deal making world?

[JaySonic]

11 minutes ago, giddyup said:

9% are actually Christian.

9% of what ? Dubai citizens? That's more accepting and integrated than Australia's 2.3% of Muslims, yet all the white racists scream "they're taking over !"

 

Hilarious. an uprising from 2.5% of the population, half of which are children. 

Edited February 3, 2017 by JaySonic

[elgordo38]

17 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Agreed, the insane clown president deserves NO respect. Electing him was a horrible mistake. Have patience ... there will be hope to legally remove the mistake. 

I think what you state will happen in time after tremendous damage has been done. The Republican goal was to reclaim the presidency by hook or by crook. 

[JaySonic]

6 minutes ago, mikebike said:

You should ask Shia in UAE about religious discrimination.

 

Sure, I'll ask him what he thinks about a white French Canadian man roaming into a Quebec Mosque and murdering six people last week. I'm sure he'll say that was religious discrimination

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/02/quebec-mosque-attack-canada

[giddyup]

4 minutes ago, JaySonic said:

9% of what ? Dubai citizens? That's more accepting and integrated than Australia's 2.3% of Muslims, yet all the white racists scream "they're taking over !"

 

Hilarious. an uprising from 2.5% of the population, half of which are children. 

Read what's happening in Melbourne now with the Somalis, and have you forgotten the Cronulla riots, begun by young muslim men groping women on the beach because they see them as sluts. These are young muslims born in Australia.

[Prbkk]

29 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Thank you for this and it helped me understand Australia's position better.I can fully understand why the deal was beneficial for Australia.But I still don't really comprehend why Australia's refusal to accept boat people directly should be seenas some kind of virtuous position.The argument about lives being saved is valid but one suspects has been invoked ex post facto.Other countries like Italy/Greece have to deal with much the same problem and on a much greater scale.On top of this the Australian record on off shore holding zones is very poor.I don't nevertheless reject the policy but I do find it odd - let's be clear moronically undiplomatic - that the Australian PM should feel it right to start discussing the Obama deal on his first conversation with Trump.I'm not surprised Trump blew a fuse - especially taking into account he would have been well aware of Turnbull's publicly expressed contempt pre-election.

 

Thousands died trying to reach Australia by boat; organised by people smugglers, aided and abetted by the rotten-to-the-core Indonesian military. Since the no entry policy, no one has drowned....the smugglers understand that they can't make $$$ any longer. The policy is the lesser of 2 evils: Australia has a very significant LEGAL refugee intake and even more assisted migrants. Something in the order of 50 % of the Australian population has a parent or grandparent born overseas.

The Greek and Italian situation is slightly different to the extent that fewer smugglers are involved and would-be refugees often set out in groups organised among themselves or individually.

The Australian policy is far from perfect but it has worked.

[mfd101]

42 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Thank you for this and it helped me understand Australia's position better.I can fully understand why the deal was beneficial for Australia.But I still don't really comprehend why Australia's refusal to accept boat people directly should be seenas some kind of virtuous position.The argument about lives being saved is valid but one suspects has been invoked ex post facto.Other countries like Italy/Greece have to deal with much the same problem and on a much greater scale.On top of this the Australian record on off shore holding zones is very poor.I don't nevertheless reject the policy but I do find it odd - let's be clear moronically undiplomatic - that the Australian PM should feel it right to start discussing the Obama deal on his first conversation with Trump.I'm not surprised Trump blew a fuse - especially taking into account he would have been well aware of Turnbull's publicly expressed contempt pre-election.

Well, obviously the argument about lives saved is making a virtue from necessity as far as the pollies and public opinion are concerned. But that doesn't make the argument illegitimate:

 

(1) Australia is an island continent with a vast, largely uninhabited and difficult-to-police coastline. This is both an advantage & a disadvantage - compared to Usofa with its much-discussed southern border, and the hapless Europeans with a geography that invites penetration (so to speak). The fact is that a strict policy in Oz has shut down the smuggling networks and had the effect of saving lives. I don't think Oz needs to apologize for this. The country accepts some 20,000 refugees thru the UN systems every year. It also accepts and successfully integrates 200,000-300,000 migrants every year, who meet set points criteria, both economic & social - education & English language skills, skills sets required for the economy, family reunion ...

(2) As in every 'Western' country and probably more explicitly in Oz than in most, there is a 'deal' between political leaders and the voters: You keep control over our borders, carefully selecting who comes here, and we'll accept the large migrant intake each year without too much huffing 'n puffing. When governments lose control over their borders, as happened under the Labor governments a few years ago, and as has obviously occurred over the last 2 or 3 years across Europe, the 'deal' with voters breaks down very quickly. Noone should be surprised by that: Brexit and DT are Partly) outcomes of such breakdowns.

(3) We should also be careful about demonizing people who feel uncomfortable with large numbers of foreigners settling in their country. Their discomfort is a universal human phenomenon, that can break down trust and sociality. It's easy for comfortably-off middle & upper class people with comfortable incomes and the education to allow for them to be multi-travelled and multi-cultural and so on. But, as Brexit & DT demonstrate, their complacent acceptance of the globalized world makes them blind to the fears and actual suffering of large numbers of their fellow citizens who do not benefit - or don't think they do - from this new world. And many of whom lose their jobs in mid-life as their factory moves to another poorer country moving up the ladder ...

 

 

[JackThompson]

19 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Many decent Americans are working hard to get the insane clown president impeached. First he did a hostile takeover of the republican party and now he's installed in the white house and acting the dictator. He's a disaster and the USA is in a national crisis which will get much worse before it gets better. Australians ... please realize this MADMAN trump does NOT represent the majority of the American people. 

I'll take that seriously when I see serious criticism of Bill Clinton, backed by the Koch Bros funded DLC (Democratic Leadership Conference) taking over the Democratic Party, thereby denying working-class Americans ANY voice in DC for decades. 

 

With regard to those posting support for Bernie - if he had any principles he would not have backed Hillary Clinton.  She and her husband are far to the right of Nixon in many areas.  Trump, by contrast, is to the Left of the Republican-Democrat establishment "tag-team" on many policies which directly affect the lives of American working-class folks.

[ilostmypassword]

20 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I'll take that seriously when I see serious criticism of Bill Clinton, backed by the Koch Bros funded DLC (Democratic Leadership Conference) taking over the Democratic Party, thereby denying working-class Americans ANY voice in DC for decades. 

 

With regard to those posting support for Bernie - if he had any principles he would not have backed Hillary Clinton.  She and her husband are far to the right of Nixon in many areas.  Trump, by contrast, is to the Left of the Republican-Democrat establishment "tag-team" on many policies which directly affect the lives of American working-class folks.

You mean like opposing a rise in the minimum wage?  Appointing a viciously anti-labor person as head of the labor department?  Cutting back on health and safety regulations?  Slashing taxes on the wealthy and corporations? And the big one: slashing regulations on wall street firms and the big banks so we can have another financial disaster and more working people can be thrown out onto the street by the likes of Steve Mnuchin our new secretary of the treasury?

Edited February 3, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[oval]

52 minutes ago, IAMHERE said:

Oh, I see the headlines now; Australia gets in bed with new allies China and Russia. Sure, get in a huff and end your relations with the USA. It'll turn out great for Australia in the end, I am positive.

Australia did not want those 1200 Muslims and got America to accept them. Good trade off for Australia, bad end of the stick for the USA. I.E. it was a good deal for Australia and not so much for America. Why would Australian PM get upset that Trump pointed out to him the Australians got the better deal? Heck, isn't that a compliment in the deal making world?

The Australian PM didn't get in a huff, he merely stated a deal is a deal, and held the Australian line. It was President Trump who got in a huff, and had a whinge on Twitter like a sulky teenager, turning this non-story into a headline.

[mikebike]

 
Sure, I'll ask him what he thinks about a white French Canadian man roaming into a Quebec Mosque and murdering six people last week. I'm sure he'll say that was religious discrimination

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/02/quebec-mosque-attack-canada

You do realize that Shia is a religious subset, not a person, right?

[elgordo38]

18 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Turnbull told reporters the call with Trump at the weekend had been frank and candid but refused to give further details.

 

Ah yes the old political 2 step. Never wash your dirty linen in public old chap. Trump has walked all over Turnbull, Nieto, Merkel (currency manipulation China ditto) His circle of trust is constantly getting smaller. This guy has no political decorum whatsoever. I think he has watched the DeNiro movie "Raging Bull" to many times. Trump the business man is surely out trumping Trump the president. 

[Thechook]

8 hours ago, katana said:

Seems a strange affair. Australia didn't want these 1000s of illegal immigrants so dumped them on an island offshore, some of them for years. Then they were foisted off on the USA with Obama agreeing to take them shortly before he left office, like a parting gift to Trump to sort out. Then when Trump moves to cancel it, the media are up in arms.

The deal was America take them in exchange Australia takes 3,500 Central Americans who tried getting into the U.S.  Australia gets double and if trump doesn't like those from Iran then they can stay on Manus or go home and Trump can build his wall.

[Baerboxer]

17 hours ago, jayboy said:

Yes yes we get it.Trump is a spectacularly naughty boy.Nevertheless I can't help feeling he has a point here.Isn't the real issue Australia's rotten immigration policies and its hellish off shore processing camps? Why exactly is the US or any other country expected to take in refugees that might normally be expected to be accommodated by the major power in the area, ie Australia.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-28189608

 

Spot on. And don't forget Australia paid people traffickers to take some illegals they were transporting elsewhere, wherever that may be. That little "incident" was reported on then quickly swept under the carpet.

 

Bit like Germany inviting open door and then wanting to impose quotas on others as some of those refugees might not be so desirable after all.

 

The hypocrisy of the West - doesn't change much,

[simple1]

11 minutes ago, Thechook said:

The deal was America take them in exchange Australia takes 3,500 Central Americans who tried getting into the U.S.  Australia gets double and if trump doesn't like those from Iran then they can stay on Manus or go home and Trump can build his wall.

 

Has it ever come out in the open what other agreements were sealed with the Turnbull /Obama agreement e.g. additional facilities for US military on Australian soil in support of trying to contain China

[Baerboxer]

18 minutes ago, elgordo38 said:

Ah yes the old political 2 step. Never wash your dirty linen in public old chap. Trump has walked all over Turnbull, Nieto, Merkel (currency manipulation China ditto) His circle of trust is constantly getting smaller. This guy has no political decorum whatsoever. I think he has watched the DeNiro movie "Raging Bull" to many times. Trump the business man is surely out trumping Trump the president. 

 

I think Trump genuinely couldn't give a crap about other leaders, who he upsets or what their opinions are. He's an isolationist who thinks as he's the POTUS, leader of the biggest super power, he can do and say whatever he likes. And if anyone doesn't like the content or the way it's said then hard luck. 

 

He's certainly different! 

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, Prbkk said:

 

Thousands died trying to reach Australia by boat; organised by people smugglers, aided and abetted by the rotten-to-the-core Indonesian military. Since the no entry policy, no one has drowned....the smugglers understand that they can't make $$$ any longer. The policy is the lesser of 2 evils: Australia has a very significant LEGAL refugee intake and even more assisted migrants. Something in the order of 50 % of the Australian population has a parent or grandparent born overseas.

The Greek and Italian situation is slightly different to the extent that fewer smugglers are involved and would-be refugees often set out in groups organised among themselves or individually.

The Australian policy is far from perfect but it has worked.

I am not suggesting the Australian policy hasn't worked - though as you know it is deeply controversial within Australia.My point was that notwithstanding the Obama deal, it's not hard to understand why it might be questioned by other countries "enlisted" to do Australia's dirty work.I'm surprised to find myself on Trump's side here particularly as it was foolish for Turnbull to make this a centre piece of his opening conversation with the incoming President.

[louse1953]

13 hours ago, Pdaz said:

Can always return all the refugees  back to Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia or wherever else they were from. They tried to illegally ( and paid criminal people smugglers )   circumvent the correct procedure to gain entry to Australia. What about the thousands of people waiting patiently in their home countries who have applied in correct manner ? Why give these queue jumpers precedence ?

Why does the Western World have to shoulder the burden ? Plenty of safe developing countries with room to spare who could benefit. After all according to the media these people are all highly qualified and decent. The developing World should be welcoming them with open arms..

Stop repeating lies,it is not illegal to seek asylum.Aust with our allies caused these people to be refugees by bombing their countries based on a lie.

[louse1953]

5 hours ago, giddyup said:

There are immigrants that contribute to a country economically and assimilate, and then there are those from muslim countries.......

Rubbish,i know plenty of muslims that work and drink VB.

[louse1953]

2 hours ago, giddyup said:

Read what's happening in Melbourne now with the Somalis, and have you forgotten the Cronulla riots, begun by young muslim men groping women on the beach because they see them as sluts. These are young muslims born in Australia.

You been listening to The Parrot to much.The riots where started by red neck Australians on the piss,picking on muslims,incited by mealy mouthed radio presenters.

[simple1]

7 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

Rubbish,i know plenty of muslims that work and drink VB.

There was a study carried out in Oz about a year ago where people with same qualification / experience submitted their CV's for job opportinties with Muslim sounding names and non Muslim names; guess who were not invited for interviews - bigotry is a self fulfilling prophecy

[Thechook]

27 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

Stop repeating lies,it is not illegal to seek asylum.Aust with our allies caused these people to be refugees by bombing their countries based on a lie.

Crap.  The conflicts in the middle east have been going on for a 1000 years, before Australia became  nation in 1901 and well befor the british set foot in the Americas.  Conflict in the middle east was never started by the west. The people have got smarter and seen oppertunities abroad and thought lets blame them because we soiled our country, its their fault for the last thousand years and these developed new countries owe us for what we created.

[giddyup]

33 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

Rubbish,i know plenty of muslims that work and drink VB.

How many, 100, 1000, 10,000?

[optad]

10 minutes ago, simple1 said:

There was a study carried out in Oz about a year ago where people with same qualification / experience submitted their CV's for job opportinties with Muslim sounding names and non Muslim names; guess who were not invited for interviews - bigotry is a self fulfilling prophecy

I watched a student teacher do a class ESL class on banning cigarettes. It was just a topic to elicit spoken word then a short written piece. This group was all Syrian and Iraqi refugees. More smokers than not  amongst males in the class. Vocal debate and they agreed with the ban. Solid result for her lesson plan/ Good class. 

 

This teacher thought she would run the debate again, this time on alcohol. Banning alcohol. I suggested she not do this one because I really did not want the  fall out nonetheless she ran the discussion and ironically, all the males were indignant. They loved a beer or two when they could. Great class.

 

The female refugees were the ones in support of the alcohol ban but these wowsers could be true anywhere!! These guys are all refugees from about thirty to sixty five participating in settlement programs, most only three months since arrival. Twenty in that student teacher's class and super expressive. Reason for the cigarette affirmation was that it was expensive and they needed to give up!! but beer was okay.

 

Alcohol and muslims is a myth perpetuated by those that prefer the stereotype. 

 

[Neurath]

20 hours ago, zorro1 said:

No hope at all. You can't impeach the guy just because he is a dick head. He needs to break some laws and hanging up on a guy doesn't qualify. I lost a lot of respect for the DT today though.

Does his hair breaking the Laws of Nature qualify?

 

The Aussies are all in a huff about this. Seem to be pretty pissed off. Funny thing is that it's the Aussie Nationalists that are most pissed off, and they're the one's who's views most correspond to Trump's. 

 

Imagine if Trump pulled this sort of BS on that other Aussie Prime Minister Keating. 

[DriveByTrucker]

14 minutes ago, Thechook said:

Crap.  The conflicts in the middle east have been going on for a 1000 years, before Australia became  nation in 1901 and well befor the british set foot in the Americas.  Conflict in the middle east was never started by the west. The people have got smarter and seen oppertunities abroad and thought lets blame them because we soiled our country, its their fault for the last thousand years and these developed new countries owe us for what we created.

Your answer to the post of louse1953 is a bit weird. Of course Australia wasnt bombing the ME 1000 years ago. But there were the Romans, Greeks and crusaders, who all started conflicts there. But more to our own time, are you actually saying that loony George W didnt start the latest major conflict in the ME?

[Neurath]

3 hours ago, giddyup said:

Australia changed as a result of the immigrants. The immigrants changed as a result of living in the Australian culture. The process was sometimes messy. I see nothing different about immigrants who follow Islam.

 

The immigrants you are talking about were mostly Christian with compatible lifestyles and capitalist and democratic values.

Nonsense. Most of them are from India, China, Vietnam and other parts of Asia. Lot's of English and New Zealanders too, but they don't qualify as Christians - well, good ones anyway.

[mikebike]

24 minutes ago, Thechook said:

Crap.  The conflicts in the middle east have been going on for a 1000 years, before Australia became  nation in 1901 and well befor the british set foot in the Americas.  Conflict in the middle east was never started by the west. The people have got smarter and seen oppertunities abroad and thought lets blame them because we soiled our country, its their fault for the last thousand years and these developed new countries owe us for what we created.

1. Yes, we are aware that conflict has existed since the beginning of time in ALL parts of the world. What does that have to do with the current middle-eastern conflict and its origins (oil)?

2. "Conflict in the middle-east was never started by the west." Huh? Crusades come to mind...