opalred Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 i have been now living in the north for 14 yrs we used have 2 months of cold weather so i built a fireplace in the house and bought a truck load of firewood then the cold went to 1mth the 2 weeks last year 1 week this year 1 day last year was the hottest and driest i have seen our dam dried up the wife had never seen that inhere 48yrs life i believe this year people will be fighting over water but there was a bright side the white ants got a good feed and eat half the wood heap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 weather and climate are 2 separate things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 I built a fireplace this year too. I am using it right now. But you are right that this was a mild winter and last year was a very strong drought. But climate change cannot be detected by human recollection. The weather is different every year. Always. So enjoy the mild winter, and if your worried drill a well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onthesoi Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Quote last year was the hottest and driest i have seen Same for me, the autumn monsoon simply didn't happen. Never seen anything like it before in SEA! MY money is on AGW and possibly El Nino effect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisakiman Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Of course the climate is changing. It always has, and it always will. We've had ice ages, global tropics, mini ice ages, the medieval warm spell etc etc. That's the way this planet works. The question is whether the minuscule amount (on a global scale) of carbon dioxide we are adding to the atmosphere is going to cause cataclysmic change to the climate patterns, which are anyway chaotic. The 'climate scientists' have really no more idea than you or I, whatever they may say. They simply don't have enough data, nor knowledge of the mechanisms at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starky Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 8 hours ago, onthesoi said: Same for me, the autumn monsoon simply didn't happen. Never seen anything like it before in SEA! MY money is on AGW and possibly El Nino effect! I thought we were in la Nina now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onthesoi Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, starky said: I thought we were in la Nina now https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014–16_El_Niño_event Edited February 4, 2017 by onthesoi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 3 hours ago, nisakiman said: Of course the climate is changing. It always has, and it always will. We've had ice ages, global tropics, mini ice ages, the medieval warm spell etc etc. That's the way this planet works. The question is whether the minuscule amount (on a global scale) of carbon dioxide we are adding to the atmosphere is going to cause cataclysmic change to the climate patterns, which are anyway chaotic. The 'climate scientists' have really no more idea than you or I, whatever they may say. They simply don't have enough data, nor knowledge of the mechanisms at work. You overate the knowledge of you and I and seriously underrate the knowledge of scientists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerojero Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Of course the climate is changing. It always has, and it always will. We've had ice ages, global tropics, mini ice ages, the medieval warm spell etc etc. That's the way this planet works. The question is whether the minuscule amount (on a global scale) of carbon dioxide we are adding to the atmosphere is going to cause cataclysmic change to the climate patterns, which are anyway chaotic. The 'climate scientists' have really no more idea than you or I, whatever they may say. They simply don't have enough data, nor knowledge of the mechanisms at work.Yes hundreds of experts have got it wrong and have no idea. That time lapse aerial pictures of the Artic and Antarctic ice shrinking is an obvious hoax. Join Trump in blaming the Chinese and keep your head in the sand. Sheesh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starky Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 17 minutes ago, onthesoi said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014–16_El_Niño_event Yeah thats right. Did you read that? El Nino dissapated in June last year so were in La Nina... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 I think there's something not quite right with climate change deniers. On the one hand they claim that science doesn't have the facts, knowledge, ability or talent to prove global warming and/or that it's man made. YET they, as laymen and casual observers, late comers to the subject matter if you will, appear to have the facts, knowledge, ability and talent to assure us the experts are wrong! Hmm, what's wrong with that picture I ask myself!! If this were a simple case of one group believing a particular thoroughbred horse was better than another I would feel comfortable it was just a matter of opinion on something that was largely inconsequential. But the subject is potential of massive consequence and it's not just a case of differing opinions alone, the knowledge gap between the scientists and the masses is gargantuan. I see popular opinion of the climate change issue as being not dissimilar to other headlines of current times, a population that voted a billionaire real estate investor into the office of the President, a population that voted to shrink the economy by voting to leave the EU, the disenfranchised looking to stir things up and change the status quo. Wow, well you certainly will change the status quo if you're wrong on the climate change issue, do you play Russian roulette often! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mesquite Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 6 hours ago, chiang mai said: I think there's something not quite right with climate change deniers. On the one hand they claim that science doesn't have the facts, knowledge, ability or talent to prove global warming and/or that it's man made. YET they, as laymen and casual observers, late comers to the subject matter if you will, appear to have the facts, knowledge, ability and talent to assure us the experts are wrong! Hmm, what's wrong with that picture I ask myself!! If this were a simple case of one group believing a particular thoroughbred horse was better than another I would feel comfortable it was just a matter of opinion on something that was largely inconsequential. But the subject is potential of massive consequence and it's not just a case of differing opinions alone, the knowledge gap between the scientists and the masses is gargantuan. I see popular opinion of the climate change issue as being not dissimilar to other headlines of current times, a population that voted a billionaire real estate investor into the office of the President, a population that voted to shrink the economy by voting to leave the EU, the disenfranchised looking to stir things up and change the status quo. Wow, well you certainly will change the status quo if you're wrong on the climate change issue, do you play Russian roulette often! The time scale is miniscule even if they went back a billion years, the Earths about 4 billion old I like this chart and when it was WAY WAY hotter way way faster..............some of the biggest animals and plants lived in those very hot times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 Just now, kannot said: The time scale is miniscule even if they went back a billion years, the Earths about 4 billion old I like this chart and when it was WAY WAY hotter way way faster..............some of the biggest animals and plants lived in those very hot times And, are you saying the scientists don't know that, if so you might want to tell them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 6 hours ago, chiang mai said: I think there's something not quite right with climate change deniers. On the one hand they claim that science doesn't have the facts, knowledge, ability or talent to prove global warming and/or that it's man made. YET they, as laymen and casual observers, late comers to the subject matter if you will, appear to have the facts, knowledge, ability and talent to assure us the experts are wrong! Hmm, what's wrong with that picture I ask myself!! If this were a simple case of one group believing a particular thoroughbred horse was better than another I would feel comfortable it was just a matter of opinion on something that was largely inconsequential. But the subject is potential of massive consequence and it's not just a case of differing opinions alone, the knowledge gap between the scientists and the masses is gargantuan. I see popular opinion of the climate change issue as being not dissimilar to other headlines of current times, a population that voted a billionaire real estate investor into the office of the President, a population that voted to shrink the economy by voting to leave the EU, the disenfranchised looking to stir things up and change the status quo. Wow, well you certainly will change the status quo if you're wrong on the climate change issue, do you play Russian roulette often! Something else "everyone" was once looking for but never found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminiferous_aether Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 Just now, chiang mai said: And, are you saying the scientists don't know that, if so you might want to tell them! didnt say that at all did I ?otherwise surely i would have written "maybe scientists dont know about this" DID I?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 1 minute ago, kannot said: Something else "everyone" was once looking for but never found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminiferous_aether It doesn't change my argument one jot, it's you (and others) versus the scientific world, excuse me if I don't bet on you regarding matters of science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 1 minute ago, kannot said: didnt say that at all did I ?otherwise surely i would have written "maybe scientists dont know about this" DID I?? OK fair enough, then why did you post it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 1 minute ago, chiang mai said: OK fair enough, then why did you post it? Because its been WAY WAY hotter with much more Co2 than present for a WAY WAY longer in the last half billion years, in fact its been much hotter for such a huge length of time compared to todays temps I find it rather odd that "now were doomed" Half a billion years , todays temps are relatively cool looking at that history wouldnt you say? NOW THATS A QUESTION for you, wouldnt you agree in the last half billion years OVERALL its been MUCH HOTTER with MUCH more Co2 regardless of the cause Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 1 minute ago, kannot said: Because its been WAY WAY hotter with much more Co2 than present for a WAY WAY longer in the last half billion years, in fact its been much hotter for such a huge length of time compared to todays temps I find it rather odd that "now were doomed" Half a billion years , todays temps are relatively cool looking at that history wouldnt you say? NOW THATS A QUESTION for you, wouldnt you agree in the last half billion years OVERALL its been MUCH HOTTER with MUCH more Co2 regardless of the cause So you're saying that the noise being made today about global warming being man made is nonsense, you know more than the scientists do, that's cool! (no pun intended) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 6 minutes ago, chiang mai said: It doesn't change my argument one jot, it's you (and others) versus the scientific world, excuse me if I don't bet on you regarding matters of science. For a long LONG time Luminiferous Aether was "the" explanation of how light travelled until Relativity came along..............what if "they" are barking up the wrong tree like Luminiferous Aether and there is a better but not yet understood or known solution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 Just now, kannot said: For a long LONG time Luminiferous Aether was "the" explanation of how light travelled until Relativity came along..............what if "they" are barking up the wrong tree like Luminiferous Aether and there is a better but not yet understood or known solution? Don't divert, that's not the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, chiang mai said: So you're saying that the noise being made today about global warming being man made is nonsense, you know more than the scientists do, that's cool! (no pun intended) Do you agree its been way hotter with way more Co2 for most of the last half billion years than todays temps? it looks pretty clear to me, once again your'e putting words into my mouth. Edited February 5, 2017 by kannot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 Just now, chiang mai said: Don't divert, that's not the discussion. BUT IT IS if they are barking up the wrong tree after all they spent hundred + years trying to find the Luminiferous Aether Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 (edited) 40 minutes ago, kannot said: Something else "everyone" was once looking for but never found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminiferous_aether WMDs in Iraq?? Edited February 5, 2017 by LongTimeLurker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisakiman Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 What amuses me is the supporters of the current orthodoxy on climate change declaring that "The Science is Settled"; "There is Consensus"; "97% of Scientists agree" (which is actually BS, but leave that aside for now). All those statements are the very antithesis of scientific method. Real science puts a theory (and climate change predictions are only that - unverifiable theory) out for open discussion. It doesn't try to shut down debate by labelling those that disagree as heretics. In the 16th century, there was 'scientific consensus' that the Sun orbited the Earth. The science was settled. 97% of scientists agreed that yes, the Sun, beyond a shadow of a doubt, revolved around the Earth. Galileo was labelled a heretic and a 'denier' for suggesting that in fact, the Earth was in orbit around the Sun. Galileo's championing of heliocentrism and Copernicanism was controversial during his lifetime, when most subscribed to either geocentrism or the Tychonic system.[10] He met with opposition from astronomers, who doubted heliocentrism because of the absence of an observed stellar parallax.[10] The matter was investigated by the Roman Inquisition in 1615, which concluded that heliocentrism was "foolish and absurd in philosophy, and formally heretical since it explicitly contradicts in many places the sense of Holy Scripture."[10][11][12] Galileo later defended his views in Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, which appeared to attack Pope Urban VIII and thus alienated him and the Jesuits, who had both supported Galileo up until this point.[10] He was tried by the Inquisition, found "vehemently suspect of heresy", and forced to recant. He spent the rest of his life under house arrest. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei Note the part "...formally heretical since it explicitly contradicts in many places the sense of Holy Scripture..." AGW has become a religion for many, and the very idea that someone might disagree with their worldview gives them fits of the vapours. Hence the vitriol and cries of "Denier!", and the attempts to personally discredit them. 'Climate Change' has become a cult which has no tolerance for dissenters. Inconvenient facts are buried and tenuous possibilities declared fact. This isn't science, it's religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 1 hour ago, kannot said: Do you agree its been way hotter with way more Co2 for most of the last half billion years than todays temps? it looks pretty clear to me, once again your'e putting words into my mouth. I don't know, I defer to experts for the answer to such questions, scientists and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 1 hour ago, kannot said: BUT IT IS if they are barking up the wrong tree after all they spent hundred + years trying to find the Luminiferous Aether Tell me, if you know that to be fact, why don't the cumulative brains who are studying this issue know also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 2 hours ago, chiang mai said: Tell me, if you know that to be fact, why don't the cumulative brains who are studying this issue know also? I dont know if its fact or not but "consensus" can be wrong, very wrong sometimes, which is why I pointed out Luminiferous Aether as one example where "everyone" was looking to find it and it simply wasnt there, they all jumped to the wrong conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 2 hours ago, chiang mai said: I don't know, I defer to experts for the answer to such questions, scientists and the like. It doesnt take an expert to look at that graph to see that temps have been way higher, way faster, way longer than the current "shock story" also similar for Co2 a virtual "demonized" gas now............hysterical, the graph shows it very clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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