PM Prayut denies the government is broke

[Destiny1990]

4 hours ago, OldSiamHand said:

Not true.  Foreigners can own homes and other buildings indefinitely - it's the underlying land that's an issue, but there are ways around that at well (usufructs, superficies, long term leases).   As for owning a business, well that depends on the type of business for one.  If you want to open a manufacturing business for example it can be 100% foreign owned.  There are also creative (and acceptable) ways to structure the 49% ownership limitation so that you as the foreigner effectively control your business.

I think by making the rules more fair u might get some investors back.

[ExpatOilWorker]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

No, I've given you the logical answer to a simple economics problem and you don't believe it, I'm now asking you for your version of how the deficit was funded, how was it paid for?

 

Here's the budget in case you want to peek!

 

http://www.bb.go.th/budget_book/e-Book2559/FILEROOM/CABILIBRARY59/DRAWER01/GENERAL/DATA0000/inBrief2016.pdf

Interesting. Look at page 105. Maybe the big swings in treasure balance is normal.

 

[chiang mai]

8 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Interesting. Look at page 105. Maybe the big swings in treasure balance is normal.

 

 

Well spotted. I think it probably is a cyclical thing where the reserves get replenished each year, albeit in 2016 they decided on a much lower contribution to those reserves, it was however stated as such at the start of the year hence it's not a surprise finding. Eric, are you paying attention to this!

Edited February 8, 2017 by chiang mai

[Get Real]

1 minute ago, Destiny1990 said:

Apparently not anymore because why else the foreigner investors have stopped investing then here?

Ok, and that has absolutely not anything to do with the market, it´s ups and downs. Nothing to do with the instability both in Thailand and in EU and US. Also never ever can have anything to do with that the Thai Bath is overvalued, and there are other countries that start to can offer same opportunities. It only has to do with all the "not fair" thing that the investors can see.

[onthesoi]

6 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Interesting. Look at page 105. Maybe the big swings in treasure balance is normal.

 

If the chart is accurate it means government income/deficit have made year on year gains since the military took charge.

 

The Thai bashers won't be happy with that...

[WhizBang]

On Tuesday, February 07, 2017 at 2:29 PM, candide said:

If he feels the need to deny it, it must be really worrying.....

 

 

Absolutely.  I also have to wonder how the 2 TRILLION baht infrastructure projects factor in.  Something tells me that Thailand is in deep kimchee.   All they can do is deny it until the proverbial poop hits the fan, by which time these pillars of government will be hiding abroad somewhere.  Dubai, perhaps?  

 

[Destiny1990]

6 minutes ago, Get Real said:

Ok, and that has absolutely not anything to do with the market, it´s ups and downs. Nothing to do with the instability both in Thailand and in EU and US. Also never ever can have anything to do with that the Thai Bath is overvalued, and there are other countries that start to can offer same opportunities. It only has to do with all the "not fair" thing that the investors can see.

So now they want more foreign investors how exactly then? I have suggestions example  99 year land leases.full control ur company no shareholdings,workpermit simplified,alble to work in ur bar or hotel..this might make it more interesting to invest.etcetc

[JAG]

Well I suppose that they would say that they are not broke, since they control the printing presses....

[Prbkk]

2 hours ago, Eligius said:

'PM Prayut denies the government is broke ...'

 

In the immortal words of Mandy Rice-Davies: 'Well he would, wouldn't he!'

 

We are long overdue for a really juicy and salacious sex scandal. The Tories are letting the side down.

[MorristheRunt]

The end is nigh..........

[dcnx]

16 hours ago, candide said:

If he feels the need to deny it, it must be really worrying.....

When they say, don't panic, then it's time to panic.

[dabhand]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

 

Well spotted. I think it probably is a cyclical thing where the reserves get replenished each year, albeit in 2016 they decided on a much lower contribution to those reserves, it was however stated as such at the start of the year hence it's not a surprise finding. Eric, are you paying attention to this!

The graph (yes, well spotted by EOW) appears to match fairly well with expected corporate tax inflows on a yearly basis. Given that most companies tend to have 31Dec yearends, the tax payments are due by months 5 and 8 of the yearly cycle (some may pay early/late). Section 2 of the linked CIT guide refers:

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6044.0.html

 

That would account for the peaks clearly indicated on the graph. Similarly, the lows are in Q1 of each year, a period when net outflows are the norm. Would that be a simple explanation as to why the currently reported balance, as of end Jan17, is at a low level?

 

Other taxes, such as VAT and Personal Income tax are probably less cyclical so will provide some degree of cover for regular monthly expenditures. But the main revenue bumps seem to coincide with the likely corporate tax revenue stream. 

 

So, just maybe, there is nothing much to see here at all.

 

[Prbkk]

Spending like drunken sailors, running down the reserves for populist policies, causing hurt to the country though mismanagement/failure to give adequate oversight. Who was that? Where are they now? Why am I confused?

[Alan Deer]

13 hours ago, The Dark Lord said:

.............. or you have jumped on the "Love trumps hate" bandwagon.

I wonder what posts you are reading.....You clearly aren't responding to anything in the quotes you gave chosen.

[Get Real]

10 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

So now they want more foreign investors how exactly then? I have suggestions example  99 year land leases.full control ur company no shareholdings,workpermit simplified,alble to work in ur bar or hotel..this might make it more interesting to invest.etcetc

Yeah! I thought we were talking investors. Like I see it a bar isn´t much of an investment. Usually turns out to a place for all buddy´s and drinking hole for the owner/owners. Been in that business and know how it looks and works. Why can´t you work in the bar? For working in the bar you will need to set up a company registered to an amount of 2M Bath, and have a work permit. You then see to that you meet the requirements of 4 Thai employees for every farng working, and plainly employ yourself based on that.

 

Regarding the full control of and ownership of company, there are actually many countries that have a lot of restrictions about starting and running a company without a residency, citizenship or a green card. Maybe not in all cases about the shares, but in many. If you took the time to read that, instead of maybe just compare to a dream and single alternative available you might see the light.

About the leases. It´s fully possibly to lease for 99 years, Just not at a single time. The lease must be renewed, but in can stand in a 30 year contract that you are the first in line upon a new lease and if you want to continue your lease you are in control over the choise. Also there most of the countries in the world work similar with a lease agreement. Not many places where you see 99 year, which is not good for any part in the contract.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Get Real

[The Dark Lord]

1 hour ago, Alan Deer said:

I wonder what posts you are reading.....You clearly aren't responding to anything in the quotes you gave chosen.

Suggest you re read

[Get Real]

5 hours ago, Prbkk said:

Spending like drunken sailors, running down the reserves for populist policies, causing hurt to the country though mismanagement/failure to give adequate oversight. Who was that? Where are they now? Why am I confused?

The part that regards confused might be that you are not aware of that a country sometimes spend more in a short period, and after rebuild the amount again. Also the last couple of years it has been happening much in many areas regarding corruption and unlawful behaviour. Just looks like most of the posters here are not aware of the time frame needed to get rid of a deeply rooted system with missuse and corruption. Not something that happens in 1 or 2 year. We are in reality talking about 20-30 years. When that fact sinks in, then it´s suddenly time to voice an opinion based on information you can trust.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Get Real

[Destiny1990]

1 hour ago, Get Real said:

Yeah! I thought we were talking investors. Like I see it a bar isn´t much of an investment. Usually turns out to a place for all buddy´s and drinking hole for the owner/owners. Been in that business and know how it looks and works. Why can´t you work in the bar? For working in the bar you will need to set up a company registered to an amount of 2M Bath, and have a work permit. You then see to that you meet the requirements of 4 Thai employees for every farng working, and plainly employ yourself based on that.

 

Regarding the full control of and ownership of company, there are actually many countries that have a lot of restrictions about starting and running a company without a residency, citizenship or a green card. Maybe not in all cases about the shares, but in many. If you took the time to read that, instead of maybe just compare to a dream and single alternative available you might see the light.

About the leases. It´s fully possibly to lease for 99 years, Just not at a single time. The lease must be renewed, but in can stand in a 30 year contract that you are the first in line upon a new lease and if you want to continue your lease you are in control over the choise. Also there most of the countries in the world work similar with a lease agreement. Not many places where you see 99 year, which is not good for any part in the contract.

U know what instead of trying convincing others about that these current investors conditions are totally fabulous overhere.i advice u to keep investing your own money here much as u want your self and good luck with it.Then let other investors decide for them selves where and how to invest do u understand??

 

[metisdead]

Some nonsense posts and replies have been removed. 

[Get Real]

55 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

U know what instead of trying convincing others about that these current investors conditions are totally fabulous overhere.i advice u to keep investing your own money here much as u want your self and good luck with it.Then let other investors decide for them selves where and how to invest do u understand??

 

Really think it´s you that not understand. Never tried to tell anybody to invest anywhere. Never said it was fabulous conditions. Just pointing out that some of the information is incorrect.
You can work in your bar or hotel. You can lease for 99 years, just not in one period. And you have a descent control of a company compared to many other countries with foreigners in the same situation too. One good example of that is using the options regarding A-shares and B-shares, and that only the person that is representing the company can have access to the accounts.

Never talked about changing anybody´s decision about investment. That´s totally up the the individual it regards. I am just pointing out the information that is obviously wrong in some of the post. If that makes the conditions better or worse, is not the point. The point is to not provide false information, that might confuse people regarding the reality.

 

The fact is also that everybody think that Thailand is the way to go, and in their believes want this country to give them all they want for doing what they want. Just to look at the simple hard truth. Everyone can´t move abroad, get like they want in a foreign country and start a life and a company there. Things needed for that is economical means, a good idéa and local knowlegde about rules and regulations. After that is clear, then you also need to accept them for having a chance in a foreign country. A lot of people unfortunately have a long way to go, when it comes to that important part of an investment in a foreign country. Sad, but true.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Get Real

[brucec64]

PM denies the government is broke.

They may not be broke, but they certainly are morally bankrupt.

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[Jai Dee]

Several off-topic troll posts and replies have been removed from this thread.

[tukkytuktuk]

Spending like drunken sailors, running down the reserves for populist policies, causing hurt to the country though mismanagement/failure to give adequate oversight. Who was that? Where are they now? Why am I confused?

The junta government had spent more on various infrastructure and economic stimulus measures for the benefit of the country. Such as new railway's, public buses, cycling lanes, roads, bridges, etc.
Welfare stimulate packages, up grading and maintaining the armed forces. New submarine's, and armed personel carriers. A new airforce 1 jet for government VIP business. A year long free tourist visa policy. Natural disasters and terrorism to account for. And the payment of a national mourning events .

The list is endlest. You should also include the losses incurred by the mismanagement of the previous government.

[Jai Dee]

More off-topic argumentative posts have been removed from this thread.

 

The two protagonists may take up the issue via PM, not in open discussion in the News Forum.

 

Continue the public bickering, and you face posting suspensions.

[brucec64]

1 hour ago, tukkytuktuk said:

The junta government had spent more on various infrastructure and economic stimulus measures for the benefit of the country. Such as new railway's, public buses, cycling lanes, roads, bridges, etc.
Welfare stimulate packages, up grading and maintaining the armed forces. New submarine's, and armed personel carriers. A new airforce 1 jet for government VIP business. A year long free tourist visa policy. Natural disasters and terrorism to account for. And the payment of a national mourning events .

The list is endlest. You should also include the losses incurred by the mismanagement of the previous government.

 

 

Haha  - I actually thought you were serious but then saw that this was satirical.

 

New submarines and a VIP jet for benefit of the country? And why exactly does the military require upgrading? It seems that their ability to stage a coup is fully functional, which has been their only role since 1932.

 

Where exactly is the new railway? Last I heard they couldn't even sort out the 3km test track.

 

Please keep the comedy coming!

[jayboy]

Just a quick clarification and warning that some of the procedures referred to above whereby foreigners can control companies have not been fully tested in the courts.Lawyers will advise and even help implement arrangements whereby Thai law is respected yet the foreign minority shareholder remains in control.

It may be ok but the prudent might ponder what is the Thai law trying to achieve, and whether arrangements recommended by lawyers breach the spirit if not the letter of the law.

As noted it will probably be ok but in the Thai environment where - let us say - the law can be manipulated,the foreigner cannot be entirely secure especially when there are Thai interests that have been crossed or more generally there are nationalistic or xenophobic forces in play.


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[OldSiamHand]

14 hours ago, jayboy said:

Just a quick clarification and warning that some of the procedures referred to above whereby foreigners can control companies have not been fully tested in the courts.Lawyers will advise and even help implement arrangements whereby Thai law is respected yet the foreign minority shareholder remains in control.
 

The procedures referred to above (assuming you are referring to the ones in my post) have been tried and tested in the Thai courts.   They are widespread, and I'd dare to say they might be responsible for a significant minority (if not majority) of the FDI brought into Thailand.  A few years back there was a proposal by the government of the day to put in place further restrictions in the Foreign Business Act (the main law limiting foreign ownership of businesses here), but these were shot down, mainly after outcries from the various -Chams stating that FDI would dry up.   Since then, it's been business as usual.  

[Alan Deer]

rte problem with any unelected government without an opposition is they tend to appoint "friends" to positions of power. Often these people are not up to the job and there is no opposition to point this out nor a system of meritocracy to ensure the right people are doing the right jobs. The last coup government brought about a stock market crash with they mishandling of the economy and the current government has some very familiar faces - so one could be forgiven for worrying that mistakes can be make again.

 

Big spending by a govt is not a bad thing per se....but profligacy is and one has to be concerned about the motivation for spending - is it to benefit the country both short and long term or is it to improve the image/popularity of a government that has already stayed in power considerably longer than they originally declared their intention?

 

 

 

[jayboy]

The procedures referred to above (assuming you are referring to the ones in my post) have been tried and tested in the Thai courts.   They are widespread, and I'd dare to say they might be responsible for a significant minority (if not majority) of the FDI brought into Thailand.  A few years back there was a proposal by the government of the day to put in place further restrictions in the Foreign Business Act (the main law limiting foreign ownership of businesses here), but these were shot down, mainly after outcries from the various -Chams stating that FDI would dry up.   Since then, it's been business as usual.  

My intention was simply to introduce a note of caution where arrangements compliant with the letter of the law do not comply with its spirit.In fact some of these arrangements have not been tested in the courts.Even those that have shouldn't give complete comfort unless one has a belief in continuing even handed and non politicised Thai justice.

I'm not sure you are right about the amount of FDI coming through these structures.I will check but do you have some figures?

By the way the Chambers of Commerce in Thailand are of very limited effectiveness and influence - with the exception of the American one.The British Chamber though bloated is particularly feeble and confused about its role.


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[OldSiamHand]

On 2/12/2017 at 11:59 AM, jayboy said:

By the way the Chambers of Commerce in Thailand are of very limited effectiveness and influence - with the exception of the American one.The British Chamber though bloated is particularly feeble and confused about its role.

 

 

I would say that even the American one is of limited effectiveness and influence.  A couple of months ago the joint chambers hosted a talk by the PM about Thailand being open for business.  He talked nonstop for about an hour.  Afterwards, there was supposed to be a short break followed by a Q and A session.  Surprise surprise, but it was announced that he had to attend a meeting and thus his various cabinet members would answer questions.  A few minutes after that it was announced that the entire cabinet had to leave for an "urgent meeting".  Complete disrespect for the chambers of commerce here and a sad reflection of the current government.