Tragedy played out on Facebook as sick and uninsured Bangkok expat dies on the way to hospital

[elektrified]

2 hours ago, LannaGuy said:

it's not worth the risk.... believe me... sitting in a hospital bed (or worse) paralysed with little money to get the best treatment and your whole life ruined?  forget it, sell the bike and find another less dangerous hobby and if you don't... good luck coz you are going to need heaps of it

Couldn't agree more. Riding a motorcycle in Thailand is a death wish. Just look around you. I couldn't count on my hands and toes how many fatal motorcycle accidents I've seen over the last 10 years.

[Gonefortea]

2 hours ago, LannaGuy said:

it's not worth the risk.... believe me... sitting in a hospital bed (or worse) paralysed with little money to get the best treatment and your whole life ruined?  forget it, sell the bike and find another less dangerous hobby and if you don't... good luck coz you are going to need heaps of it

Well I've been risking it then for 27 years !Think I'll carry on as well but I don't see it as a risk at all I see it as normal everyday living. Lost count of how many car drivers in the UK pulled out in front of me because they couldn't be bothered looking properly. Exactly the same here in Thailand you all say oh don't risk it death on two wheels, Lost count of fatal accidents with bikes. I wonder how many expats let's not include the tourists who jump on a bike for the first time are actually killed whilst riding a bike here compared to Thais who 99% of them haven't got a clue how to ride a bike and handle her.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Gonefortea

[LannaGuy]

1 hour ago, Gonefortea said:

Well I've been risking it then for 27 years !Think I'll carry on as well but I don't see it as a risk at all I see it as normal everyday living. Lost count of how many car drivers in the UK pulled out in front of me because they couldn't be bothered looking properly. Exactly the same here in Thailand you all say oh don't risk it death on two wheels, Lost count of fatal accidents with bikes. I wonder how many expats let's not include the tourists who jump on a bike for the first time are actually killed whilst riding a bike here compared to Thais who 99% of them haven't got a clue how to ride a bike and handle her.

 I admire your belief in reincarnation and hope you stay well

Edited February 28, 2017 by LannaGuy

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, Gonefortea said:

Well I've been risking it then for 27 years !Think I'll carry on as well but I don't see it as a risk at all I see it as normal everyday living. Lost count of how many car drivers in the UK pulled out in front of me because they couldn't be bothered looking properly. Exactly the same here in Thailand you all say oh don't risk it death on two wheels, Lost count of fatal accidents with bikes. I wonder how many expats let's not include the tourists who jump on a bike for the first time are actually killed whilst riding a bike here compared to Thais who 99% of them haven't got a clue how to ride a bike and handle her.

 

Nobody's doubting your competence and I'm sure many if not most accidents are down to other road users.  That knowledge is of little comfort or protection when the accident happens, and they often do as you acknowledge.  Look what is at stake here.

 

That said, I swear one day there will be a story of a man exiting 7-11, turning left, and getting struck by lightning.  And you know what? At least half a dozen posters will come on the forum and say: "He should've turned right".

 

 

[Gonefortea]

16 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

Nobody's doubting your competence and I'm sure many if not most accidents are down to other road users.  That knowledge is of little comfort or protection when the accident happens, and they often do as you acknowledge.  Look what is at stake here.

 

That said, I swear one day there will be a story of a man exiting 7-11, turning left, and getting struck by lightning.  And you know what? At least half a dozen posters will come on the forum and say: "He should've turned right".

 

 

If I was to worry about if and when an accident might happen on the road or walking, then I wouldn't be living a fulfilling life at all. I don't worry about what might happen in an hour or a day I live for now. One could easily say you could die of a heart attack (thousands of those all over the world every day) whilst typing a reply on here but do you concern yourself with that! So I will carry on ridding my motor bike and push bike and running on roads without to much worry.

Lannaguy I don't belive in reincarnation once your ash your ash blowing in the wind.

[billd766]

11 hours ago, paulbj2 said:

The facts are plain: as we get older, the demands we place on the healthcare system tend to increase almost exponentially. So, even if the Thai government were to allow retired "farangs" to join the Thai healthcare system, the rate at which they would need to be charged for that privilege would necessarily be very high indeed. To do otherwise would be grossly unfair to the rest of the Thai population who will have been paying in from an early age when their drain on the system will, on average,  have been negligible.

 

 

 

Not every Thai pays into the system especially in rural Thailand though they do pay a 30 baht charge for treatment at primary care centres. If the treatment is not available there they get transferred to the regional hospital and in the worst cases they can be transferred to the best hospitals available. All for the same 30 baht.

 

I am registered at the local primary hospital though depending on what I go there for I certainly pay more than Thais though it is far cheaper than if I went for example to Bumrungrad in BKK. Even if I go to the local doctors and there are quite a few in the big village I pay more than a Thai but it is not that expensive.

 

[mommysboy]

6 minutes ago, Gonefortea said:

If I was to worry about if and when an accident might happen on the road or walking, then I wouldn't be living a fulfilling life at all. I don't worry about what might happen in an hour or a day I live for now. One could easily say you could die of a heart attack (thousands of those all over the world every day) whilst typing a reply on here but do you concern yourself with that! So I will carry on ridding my motor bike and push bike and running on roads without to much worry.

Lannaguy I don't belive in reincarnation once your ash your ash blowing in the wind.

Your choice.  We have a life to lead. Personally, I wouldn't compare typing a reply with riding a bike!

[billd766]

4 hours ago, elektrified said:

I will never understand why foreigners come to Thailand to ride a motorcycle!

 

If you don't understand then nobody can explain it to you.

 

I used to ride a motorbike in the UK and in Singapore also. I live in Thailand and I have done for many years and at 72 I still enjoy riding my motorbike though I tend not to take long trips anymore.

[paulbj2]

4 hours ago, Gonefortea said:

I have lived and been treated in many countries I never implied anything. I said first hand experience.  I have no idea why you posted all this you obviously didn't read my post correctly. I really don't care if your brother/sister/dog worked at hospitals I said Ino my first hand experience it's second to none. My experience ok. As for dentist in wherever and eye care wherever. I just pay to go private easy no waiting lists ect ect ect.

So please leave me out of your obvious attempt to rubbish a health care system that has not only looked after all of my family indeed still does and when the chips were down did me proud. Thankyou

Good, in which countries have you lived and what was your experience of the healthcare systems there?

 

Bully for you, if you can afford to pay privately for dental and optical services (and can afford prescription charges as well) but let's not forget the majority of ordinary people (in this instance in the UK)  who can't afford to pay privately for such services; they don't matter at all, no?

[cheapskatesam]

I don't think there's a fine line between living live to the max and being safe.. but  I would NEVER ride a motorbike in Thailand.. its just wayy wayy too dangerous.. Thai's have scant regard for human life .. they just don't give a toss...Most Thai girls I've been with have had scars on their legs.. from.. you guessed it  "motorbike accident" It's a national past time to have motorcycle accidents in that country lol.

 

I do take some risks though.. but its calculated risks..

I will take a minivan to Pattaya.. driven by a Thai male maniac at 100mph. for a bit of excitement 

[mommysboy]

58 minutes ago, paulbj2 said:

Good, in which countries have you lived and what was your experience of the healthcare systems there?

 

Bully for you, if you can afford to pay privately for dental and optical services (and can afford prescription charges as well) but let's not forget the majority of ordinary people (in this instance in the UK)  who can't afford to pay privately for such services; they don't matter at all, no?

 

Most people can only comment on what they have experienced.  He is the buyer after all.

 

The health service is often reflective of the economy as a whole.  UK is struggling to retain first world status imo.  Perhaps it has to be adjudged alonside Spain rather than Switzerland.

 

 

 

 

[Gonefortea]

1 hour ago, paulbj2 said:

Good, in which countries have you lived and what was your experience of the healthcare systems there?

 

Bully for you, if you can afford to pay privately for dental and optical services (and can afford prescription charges as well) but let's not forget the majority of ordinary people (in this instance in the UK)  who can't afford to pay privately for such services; they don't matter at all, no?

No not to me they don't, my family does and they can also afford to see a dentist and pay to see boots opticians. Let's not forget if you can't afford it in UK there's lots of help. So of your high horse please. 

[Gonefortea]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

Your choice.  We have a life to lead. Personally, I wouldn't compare typing a reply with riding a bike!

No and I expect the poor guy this thread issue about thought about that he might die on a bike when he asked for help by typing on a forum!

[mommysboy]

2 minutes ago, Gonefortea said:

No not to me they don't, my family does and they can also afford to see a dentist and pay to see boots opticians. Let's not forget if you can't afford it in UK there's lots of help. So of your high horse please. 

 

Agreed. If you are poor then NHS represents outstanding value.  If you own your property, and need long term care then be prepared to sell it as NHS wont cover you for long term chronic sickness.  If you are working, NHS is good value but increasingly you will pay more, and more for the extras, which aren't really extras in my view.

[Galactus]

1 hour ago, cheapskatesam said:

I don't think there's a fine line between living live to the max and being safe.. but  I would NEVER ride a motorbike in Thailand.. its just wayy wayy too dangerous.. Thai's have scant regard for human life .. they just don't give a toss...Most Thai girls I've been with have had scars on their legs.. from.. you guessed it  "motorbike accident" It's a national past time to have motorcycle accidents in that country lol.

 

I do take some risks though.. but its calculated risks..

I will take a minivan to Pattaya.. driven by a Thai male maniac at 100mph. for a bit of excitement 

probabilities of getting killed in your bathroom by sliding and hitting your head is more than probability of getting killed in a motorbike accident.

Plus, greasy food, cholesterol and related health problems are more dangerous than motorbike accidents as well.

and every breath you inhale creates oxidation in your body slowly killing you too.

so, you know, just live your life!

 

Edited February 28, 2017 by Galactus

[JAFO]

2 hours ago, Gonefortea said:

If I was to worry about if and when an accident might happen on the road or walking, then I wouldn't be living a fulfilling life at all. I don't worry about what might happen in an hour or a day I live for now. One could easily say you could die of a heart attack (thousands of those all over the world every day) whilst typing a reply on here but do you concern yourself with that! So I will carry on ridding my motor bike and push bike and running on roads without to much worry.

Great Point. Far too many people sit around stifled about "What might happen" or "What could happen". I see that as a huge compromise to living life. There are folks who just go do what they do. Sure there are elements of risk anywhere. But I rode in the states virtually all my life and have a moto here and if you are a competent rider, aware of your surroundings, ride responsibly you are likely OK. Do I pay closer attention riding here...you bet but that keeps me spry and alert. I like the fun. But then again I am an adrenaline junky. 

 

Back to the thread. A friend linked me to video of the accident the other day. Weird deal. Looks like he stood the moto straight up and skidded along the guardrail like a NASCAR that had a tire go down at speed then he just disappeared over the edge. Sad event.

[mommysboy]

49 minutes ago, JAFO said:

Great Point. Far too many people sit around stifled about "What might happen" or "What could happen". I see that as a huge compromise to living life. There are folks who just go do what they do. Sure there are elements of risk anywhere. But I rode in the states virtually all my life and have a moto here and if you are a competent rider, aware of your surroundings, ride responsibly you are likely OK. Do I pay closer attention riding here...you bet but that keeps me spry and alert. I like the fun. But then again I am an adrenaline junky. 

 

Back to the thread. A friend linked me to video of the accident the other day. Weird deal. Looks like he stood the moto straight up and skidded along the guardrail like a NASCAR that had a tire go down at speed then he just disappeared over the edge. Sad event.

 

Do it because you want to, but don't go minimising the risk.  That's just plain misleading: it's a risky thing to do outside of small villages and towns.

[Gonefortea]

28 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

Do it because you want to, but don't go minimising the risk.  That's just plain misleading: it's a risky thing to do outside of small villages and towns.

I don't think he did mention minimising anything a well balanced post worry about life v living life my vote as you wl know is living life for today. The one thing I sacrifice here on the bike is speed compared to other countries. But the need for Speed left me a long long time ago, now it's when I get there no plans no timetable.

[mommysboy]

2 minutes ago, Gonefortea said:

I don't think he did mention minimising anything a well balanced post worry about life v living life my vote as you wl know is living life for today. The one thing I sacrifice here on the bike is speed compared to other countries. But the need for Speed left me a long long time ago, now it's when I get there no plans no timetable.

 

Comparing it to prosaic things like slipping in the bathroom or a heart attack when typing is minimizing the risk: making it seem a prosaic reality of life we all must do.

 

Of course, it's great to have a philosophy to live life to the full and that means accepting risk.  I can well understand the appeal. 

 

And yes, life is full of risk whether we like it or not.

 

 

[Gonefortea]

2 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

Comparing it to prosaic things like slipping in the bathroom or a heart attack when typing is minimizing the risk: making it seem a prosaic reality of life we all must do.

 

Of course, it's great to have a philosophy to live life to the full and that means accepting risk.  I can well understand the appeal. 

 

And yes, life is full of risk whether we like it or not.

 

 

Well I wouldn't say it's unimaginable or dull  or commonplace  to say it's like slipping in the shower or having a heart attack whilst typing. A risk is a risk regardless yes some are more so but all differ person to person. A newbie bikers risk factor would be much much higher than a seasoned biker. Same as everything in life. In fact life as a whole is a risk. You buy a house with a mortgage taking a calculated risk your not going to lose your job, just live life forget the worry let it happen remember the best laid plans fail miserably. Where as an off the cuff decision is usually the best decisions.

[JAFO]

23 minutes ago, Gonefortea said:

Well I wouldn't say it's unimaginable or dull  or commonplace  to say it's like slipping in the shower or having a heart attack whilst typing. A risk is a risk regardless yes some are more so but all differ person to person. A newbie bikers risk factor would be much much higher than a seasoned biker. Same as everything in life. In fact life as a whole is a risk. You buy a house with a mortgage taking a calculated risk your not going to lose your job, just live life forget the worry let it happen remember the best laid plans fail miserably. Where as an off the cuff decision is usually the best decisions.

Adding to your point Gonefortea, Some decisions are calculated, some not. Its a balance and I think we all do some sort of risk assessment when doing things. I have met so many who have passed up on some incredible experiences due to their perceived danger/risk/unknown. They tell me and said, "Man I should have done this, should have done that". Also to your point, Moving here having never rode a motorcycle or rode minimally is a large risk. Age would be another factor in that moto riding. If having spent a good number of years on a moto and moving here, riding is second nature. Yes there are additional elements involved but easily picked up.

 

I did find it rather amusing Mommysboy responses only because it aligns with his user name. 55

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, JAFO said:

Adding to your point Gonefortea, Some decisions are calculated, some not. Its a balance and I think we all do some sort of risk assessment when doing things. I have met so many who have passed up on some incredible experiences due to their perceived danger/risk/unknown. They tell me and said, "Man I should have done this, should have done that". Also to your point, Moving here having never rode a motorcycle or rode minimally is a large risk. Age would be another factor in that moto riding. If having spent a good number of years on a moto and moving here, riding is second nature. Yes there are additional elements involved but easily picked up.

 

I did find it rather amusing Mommysboy responses only because it aligns with his user name. 55

 

The name is just a laugh.

 

Well, I guess I used to smoke and drink heavily so that is the same sort of calculated risk.  You get a second chance though!

 

I dont know what I can say without getting in to a polarized back and forth when I pretty much agree with the freedom to do what you want: my only objection was in normalizing motorbike riding on Thai roads (let alone 3 lane highways) as if it was one of those risks inherent in life like having to go to the bathroom, or eat. 

[paulbj2]

Human kind are not that good at assessing risk really.

 

I went to my doctor a few years back, to get the results of some routine blood/urine tests and she sat me down and said:

 

"Are you aware how grave your risk of a heart attack or stroke is?".

 

I was a bit taken aback when she produced a chart that showed that, with all the risk factors that I had - Type II diabetes, 30 cigarettes a day, BMI close to 30, family history of heart disease, bad cholesterol levels, gout, lifestyle etc, etc, I had a one in five chance of having a major heart attack or stroke in the following 5 years. I replied that I really wasn't that bothered whether I lived or died as I was coming up to retirement and not looking forward to trying to scrape by on a very meagre pension to which she replied: 

 

"Yes, I can understand that. You're not by any means the first patient who has said that to me BUT are you prepared to become a cardiac cripple or to be partially paralysed for what is left of your life; does life in a wheelchair appeal to you? Often the first heart attack or stroke doesn't kill, it maims." 

 

She gave me the address of a website where I could go and work out my own risk, which I did and actually, taking everything into account and being completely honest about my lifestyle on this site, my risk turned out to be significantly greater even than what she had told me initially.

 

So what is the point of all this? Well, the risks of riding a motor cycle in a country where the accident and death rate amongst riders of two-wheeled transport is as high as it is here, are obvious, but how many people consider the risk that their lifestyle poses for their well being. How many of the keyboard-warriors accusing motor-cycle riders of being irresponsible by riding here, are grossly overweight, smoke cigarettes, drink to excess, take little or no exercise, have an appalling diet, have unprotected paid-for sex or any permutation of one, some or all of these risk factors. Depending on your particular combination of genetic factors and lifestyle, you could be at greater risk of imminent death than any motorcyclist.

 

Me? I fixed all the things about my lifestyle that were fixable. I stopped smoking, I changed my diet, I lost a huge amount of weight, I started exercising and I cut down my drinking drastically. Do I miss any of it: not really. Do I feel better; yes a million times better.  I did have a cigarette on New Years Eve or rather part of a cigarette, I had two puffs on it, coughed like a trooper, nearly threw up and asked myself why and how I had smoked the damned repulsive things for 50 years!  

[mommysboy]

Well done in pulling back from the brink.  That was some achievement. I found giving up smoking and remaining off it for 6 years rather difficult, to the extent that I now vape and hope it is as safe as is claimed.

 

The big elephant in the room is stress, which doesnt really get talked about, but it is behind a lot of illness as a direct or indirect factor. It seems it is ok to ruin your health through work, but not through recreation!

 

Yes I can well understand our biker friends.  At least they are out and about enjoying themselves.  Back in Blighty recently I had a sort of crisis.  Now I was going through a tough time with mum and dad's grave illness, but more than that it seemed that pleasure was hard to find, and even simple things kept going wrong.  At first I thought it was me, but as time transpired I realized it wasn't.  It seems the main recreation is drinking yourself to death.

 

 

[Ankerwerfer]

My post in the Facebook group "Foreign Teacher in Thailand - Informations for and from Teachers"

 

The story behind that is more serious.

He asked for help in an Expat online group but none got it that he is feeling really helpless.

Instead of offering help to provide some money to get a good treatment everybody is only giving "good advices" instead of say "let's collect some money and let's help".
I closed my facebook accounts for several days because I'm bored of this always BLABLABLA ... it is exactly the things I read every day from us Expats. If there is somebody who needs help none will offer him his help. It happens everywhere in the world. The COMMUNITY is only a collection of SELFSISH INDIVIDUALS.

You might think about my comment what you want. Look in the mirror and you see exactly that one individual I am talking off.

I see it already - the community will be able to collect money for the funeral but you all are not willing to give something to avoid that it happens.

If you ask me - the accident has been suicide. Grabbed the opportunity and jumped from the bridge. WE ALL ARE SUBJECTS WHO SHOULD BE OPEN AND WILLING TO MAKE THE WORLD BETTER BUT INSTEAD OF THAT WE ALL ARE ONLY HOPELESS LOSERS

Ingo

[Travel2003]

On 2/27/2017 at 9:57 AM, Gonefortea said:

Was was the point? Can't own a motor bike? Why because he had no money for hospital treatment?. Circumstances change from one day to the next. Maybe he was waiting for a pension to be paid to him soon. Maybe he didn't have a lot of money, and panicked thinking it was going to cost a fortune. (Reading posts on here I can see why he might have been worried about costs of medical care) in reality it's not expensive if you go to a government hospital. This he can have a bike but can't afford hospital care is rubbish. 

That he could afford that much for a bike, but not for his own health.

Thats it, nothing to it.

[Gonefortea]

11 minutes ago, Travel2003 said:

That he could afford that much for a bike, but not for his own health.

Thats it, nothing to it.

Do you know when he bought the bike? Do you know if it was his bike?. Do you know anything about the guy (RIP) apart from what you read?

Hard times can come in a flash when you least expect it. Do you know if it was his bike that he wasn't going to sell it to fund treatment? Do you know how much if it was his, he paid for it? You insinuate you do!

Edited March 1, 2017 by Gonefortea

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Travel2003 said:

That he could afford that much for a bike, but not for his own health.

Thats it, nothing to it.

 

Did it occur to you that he might have had his bike for quite a while? I have had my Honda Phantom for 7 years and the Honda CB 400 for 4 years.

 

Now if you want to sell your bike for a fair price it might take some time or you may be able to sell your bike quickly but for a lot lower price which may not be enough for your needs.

 

So, in that case, what would YOU do?

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, Ankerwerfer said:

My post in the Facebook group "Foreign Teacher in Thailand - Informations for and from Teachers"

 

The story behind that is more serious.

He asked for help in an Expat online group but none got it that he is feeling really helpless.

Instead of offering help to provide some money to get a good treatment everybody is only giving "good advices" instead of say "let's collect some money and let's help".
I closed my facebook accounts for several days because I'm bored of this always BLABLABLA ... it is exactly the things I read every day from us Expats. If there is somebody who needs help none will offer him his help. It happens everywhere in the world. The COMMUNITY is only a collection of SELFSISH INDIVIDUALS.

You might think about my comment what you want. Look in the mirror and you see exactly that one individual I am talking off.

I see it already - the community will be able to collect money for the funeral but you all are not willing to give something to avoid that it happens.

If you ask me - the accident has been suicide. Grabbed the opportunity and jumped from the bridge. WE ALL ARE SUBJECTS WHO SHOULD BE OPEN AND WILLING TO MAKE THE WORLD BETTER BUT INSTEAD OF THAT WE ALL ARE ONLY HOPELESS LOSERS

Ingo

 

What really killed him was a truly tragic bike accident.

 

What he really needed was a family or friends around to calm him down and get him the treatment he required under his insurance policy.  None of us know the finer details of his life.

 

Just what mental state he was in at the time of the tragedy none of us know.  Anxiety can cause all sorts of lapses, and make you do things too quickly and badly.  But we just don't know.

[seank]

Very sad news as he still had a lot of life left in him.