Time Up For Some 30 Day Visa Runners

[george]

Time up for some 30 day visa runners

Farangs living in Thailand with a 30 day stamp on arrival, and renewing it by continuous monthly visa runs to the Cambodian border, face big problems from next month. New regulations introduced on October 1 2006 mean that these farangs will currently be on their third 30 days visa run (October, November and December) with the limit of 90 days in a 6 months’ block about to bite.

Since October, immigration officers at Thai airports and border posts have been underlining 30 days stamps in visitors’ passports with a yellow marker pen.

Once three such stamps have been issued in a 6 months’ period, entrants are likely to be refused another in the short term. They are likely to be given a temporary 7 days’ stamp and told to quit Thailand for at least three months. These changes had been introduced by the immigration bureau nationally as it was felt the discretion of the 30 days stamp on arrival was being abused by foreigners trying to turn it into an unofficial residency permit.

Bureau chief police lieutenant general Suwat Tumrongsrikul had indicated that he had evidence that some such “residents” were running bars illegally or abusing Thai hospitality in other ways. If the perpetual 30 days on arrival farangs wish to continue to live in Thailand they have to break the cycle by leaving the country and requesting a prior visa (60 or 90 days) at a Thai consulate or embassy abroad. The most popular destinations in Asia are Penang and Vientiane, but most applicants are currently being restricted there to a single entry tourist visa (60 days plus an extension of 30 days).

The British embassy Pattaya based officer, Barry Kenyon, said all of the options needed financial resources. “Foreigners over 50 can apply for a one year retirement option,” he said, “but they need to have at least 800,000 baht made up of a Thai bank book deposit and probably proof of income or pension in their first country.” He added that men under 50 wanting a one year visa were mostly restricted to the “married man’s extension” or a valid work permit issued by the Labour office. Another option for foreigners with funds is to return to their own countries to obtain a multiple entry tourist or non-immigrant visa.

It is increasingly the pattern that multiple entries are being given only in the applicant’s home country. The Thai government recently introduced a new three year business visa, again awarded only in the first country, but this requires the support of the Thai commerce ministry or board of investment as well as proof of liaison with business partners in Thailand. A Pattaya based visa and travel agent said that he thought that some impecunious farangs might go into overstay as they could not afford to leave the country, thus risking jail and deportation procedures. But he wondered whether the new rules might be softened later in the year. “The whole thing was introduced without much notice, “he said, “and it might not be long term as it stands. Nobody knows.” The immigration bureau stresses that the new rules about 30 days do not apply to holiday tourists or holders of prior visas issued in countries outside Thailand.

A spokesman said tourists were very welcome and there were procedures in place to permit long stays. “We are concerned only with the abuse of the 30 days stamp by foreigners who are renewing it month after month after month at border posts. It is not a residency permit,” he explained.

--Pattaya Today 2006-12-16

http://www.pattayatoday.net/index.php?acti...ews&id=2030

[lopburi3]

Once again wrong information if Immigration is to be believed. It is the number of days in Thailand that is to be counted - not the number of entries.

[loveandlaughter]

Stamps or days? Wait and see Lopburi, wait and see......

[markg]

Stamps or days? Wait and see Lopburi, wait and see......

I hear ya Lopburi - however for someone (not me by the way) who has stayed here for years by doing 30 day visa runs, there clearly will be no difference between the number of stamps and the number of days.

Of course, there are going to be some great arguments between imm and business men who (say) come here 6 or 7 times within a 6 month period, each visit being for only a week.......

I think counting the days is gonna be a lot harder than imm imagined. Then again, TiT.

[lopburi3]

For some there will be little difference but for many, especially weekend visitors it makes a very big difference. The Royal Thai Police Order 608/2549 is very clear that what counts is the number of days. That it may change at some point is always a possibility but as of now the rule is 90 days.

[John K]

Well we will see the impact. Check with Thai landlords as far as vacancy predictions, they should have a good feel now for how bad they will be hurting and how big the rallies will be in front of the Government house.

[columbo]

This topic is obviously of extreme importance to a great many as evidenced by 250 people coming out of the woodwork and viewing the topic right now. I've been making my 30 day runs for 15 years consecutively and my plans are to continue doing so right into this thing. I will not be intimidated

[rocky]

There have been stories of consulates in western countries refusing to give tourist visa as a resulf of missunderstanding of the rules, this has happened when the ocnsulate has looked in the passport and noted that the applicant has already been in thailand for an amount of Days, As a result tourist visa has been turned down becasue the consulate believes the passport holder would be staying in the kingdon to long. Thus confusing a VOA and tourist visa

Midnight is upon us.

I think the value of the western farang is about to be understood.

Interesting times coming in the following weeks and months

[rocky]

This topic is obviously of extreme importance to a great many as evidenced by 250 people coming out of the woodwork and viewing the topic right now. I've been making my 30 day runs for 15 years consecutively and my plans are to continue doing so right into this thing. I will not be intimidated

Very honourable sir, intimidated maybe not, by refused entry guaranteed.

[fourbaht]

This topic is obviously of extreme importance to a great many as evidenced by 250 people coming out of the woodwork and viewing the topic right now. I've been making my 30 day runs for 15 years consecutively and my plans are to continue doing so right into this thing. I will not be intimidated

Intimdated maybe not but not allowed in after 90 days consecutive almost definately

[altman]

i did my 3d run, since october 1st, yesterday

two things stand out in my mind:

1) when checking in on the thai side there was very little hesitancy about stamping my passport with another 30 day satmp. but, i did, somehow, have the impression that they had my history well documented on the computer. my conclusion is that it wouldn't be all that difficult to enhance existing computer programs to track the number of days a person spends in thailand.

2) while talking with one of the shop owners on the burmese side, and this will apply to the thai side as well, she asked when i would be back. i had always responded automatically, 'in a month', but this time i realized that i won't be back there for 4 months! me and several hundred other farangs are going to make a big difference in the eating habits of several thousand thais and burmeses dependent on our continuing business month after month.

there is going to be a big drop in income for the next 4 months...

[lannarebirth]

Are any Thai consulates/embassies in SE Asia offering more than single 60 day tourist visa? If so, which? TIA

[PK Engineering]

Stamps or days? Wait and see Lopburi, wait and see......

Actually and fo sure days. My business partner (European) entered Thailand since October about 6 times, always for 3 to 5 days. NO PROBLEM.

Means: play according to the rules and everything works out fine

[Kaojai]

I think the value of the western farang is about to be understood.

The value of the western farang who comes here to do legitimate business or has the financial resources to obtain a retirement visa or comes as a tourist is already understood and Thailand continues to welcome them.

The western farang who hasn't the resources to do anything other than scurry across the border every 30 days before returning to some work that generates minimal income but no foreign exchange is also understood, which is why they want them to go home.

[Artisan]

This topic is obviously of extreme importance to a great many as evidenced by 250 people coming out of the woodwork and viewing the topic right now. I've been making my 30 day runs for 15 years consecutively and my plans are to continue doing so right into this thing. I will not be intimidated

Get stuck in there mate...show them that you mean business.

[rocky]

I think the value of the western farang is about to be understood.

The value of the western farang who comes here to do legitimate business or has the financial resources to obtain a retirement visa or comes as a tourist is already understood and Thailand continues to welcome them.

The western farang who hasn't the resources to do anything other than scurry across the border every 30 days before returning to some work that generates minimal income but no foreign exchange is also understood, which is why they want them to go home.

YOU ARE WRONG WRONG WRONG

The only people the Thais can view in this light are the old or the working.

I am 37, not married to a Thai, Independently wealthy, do not work here in Thailand. I return to my home country, wish to stay here for 11 months of the year. There are no provisions for this situation.

Take your blinkers off, there are more than 3 shelves of long term visitors in Thailand.

Here is another.

My friends is retired here and married. His daughter recently from the UK has had problems, so my friend has invited his daughter to stay with him here in Jomtien so she can take some time out of life. The only visa she can obtain is a 3 month tourist visa.

Her father is wealthy and can keep her financially. She will not be working, But after 3 months will need to return to England. Where is the provision for this.

This new rules will cost more than Thailand ever imagined. It will hurt many individual Thai families, local economies, business both small and large, government Tax.

Here is another.

Wealthy travelers, between commitments (maybe redundant with cash) in the west visits southeast asia with the thought of traveling throughout. Get to Thailand and decide to stay and not visit the other countries. After three months has to leave. Cannot be bothered to go back to their home country so just continue with their travels around asia taking spending money in other countries.

Here is another

Student 12 months traveling, same as above

GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE WORLD HAS MANY DIFFERNET PEOPLE WISHING TO TRAVEL THAT CANNOT NOW STAY IN THAILAND LONG TERM. And the biggest loser will be Thailand

[LivinLOS]

Once again wrong information if Immigration is to be believed. It is the number of days in Thailand that is to be counted - not the number of entries.

My brother is a prime example.. He doesnt live here, he does however visit me a lot and go in and out a lot.

He came to Thailand from his home in Bali (with his TGF) on route to UK.. Spent about 1 week in country Mid / Late Oct..

Back from UK approx mid Nov and stayed a full month and recently did his first overland (over water) visa run to Ranong with me. He did a visa run before the end of his 30 day stamp as it was convenient to go together and I wanted no overstay. Perhaps day 21 - 25.

The Ranong Office stamped his passport and wrote a 3 next to it and told him thats his last.. Despite having not used 90 days.. So far its 1 week and low 20 days, plus his second 30 as yet unused fully..

Hes now good until mid Jan but then will leave Thailand for Bali (would prefer to wait until early feb if truth be told) as he cannot be bothered with going and getting a tourist visa to then return for only a couple of weeks.. Between Indo restruicting him and Thailand restricting him he really is getting it both ways with loads of Sing or KL stops likely..

They clearly told him that was his 3rd stamp despite only 1st time it being a land border, and not using his 90 days in full. To Ranong 3 stamps meant 3 stamps even if they were not fully used.

Of course until it happens you can say but they wrote a 3 and said absolutely 100% 'no more'.. I sure wouldnt go to Burma based on that advise !!!

[LivinLOS]

Stamps or days? Wait and see Lopburi, wait and see......

I hear ya Lopburi - however for someone (not me by the way) who has stayed here for years by doing 30 day visa runs, there clearly will be no difference between the number of stamps and the number of days.

Of course, there are going to be some great arguments between imm and business men who (say) come here 6 or 7 times within a 6 month period, each visit being for only a week.......

I think counting the days is gonna be a lot harder than imm imagined. Then again, TiT.

I have said all along..

With only 15 of 55 border points computerised and networked.. And the volume of traffic and staff the Thais are not able to implement this system in an effective way.. They just are not up to the task..

I would guess the first place to stop would be air traffic.. No way new airport immigration can handle the high season loads..

Selective and partial enforcement is the best I can see.. Nong Khai / Ranong / Sadao / etc.. The main border hopper points.. even then it will be somchai trying to remember how many days in feb on a leap year..

Chaos

Edited December 16, 2006 by LivinLOS

[LivinLOS]

I think the value of the western farang is about to be understood.

The western farang who hasn't the resources to do anything other than scurry across the border every 30 days before returning to some work that generates minimal income but no foreign exchange is also understood, which is why they want them to go home.

And how about the wealthy young farang ?? Putting >2mil baht into the Thai economy per year ?? Wont marry, have money why work ??

Whats my visa class ??

Of course its not hard to scam a B visa or similar but bit of a joke no ??

[rocky]

I think the value of the western farang is about to be understood.

The western farang who hasn't the resources to do anything other than scurry across the border every 30 days before returning to some work that generates minimal income but no foreign exchange is also understood, which is why they want them to go home.

And how about the wealthy young farang ?? Putting >2mil baht into the Thai economy per year ?? Wont marry, have money why work ??

Whats my visa class ??

Of course its not hard to scam a B visa or similar but bit of a joke no ??

Over 50 with 800,000 can get visa, under 50 with the same money cannot

Married to a Thai with income can get visa, GAY or not married with the same money cannot

Have a bigger income than the pension requirement but below 50 cannot

At some consulates obtaining an O visa under the age of 50 is very difficult.

Blinkers off and look, the world is bigger than the over 50 and working people

[LivinLOS]

Agree totally...

I sit here on a non imm and have done for years.. Simply as I dont like doing visa runs and if you pay a bit its easy to scam a visa I shouldnt get..

But effectively they are telling me.. No sorry Mr Multi Millionaire, we can see you spend 50k USD per annum here, we can see you employ people, we can see your only a net gain for us.. But we got all freaked out with the Mark Karr thing and we are not smart enough to make rules that dont throw the baby out with the bathwater, so we have invented this half assed system, that no one clearly understands, that doesn't actually stop anyone being here (2 passports, 3x 30 and 1x tourist and extension, lose consuls Non-O's, whatever) that in fact we are not even sure how we are going to implement..

Fine.. No bother.. Still easy to fake non imm applications, still easy to form a company and do nothing with it.. But really I would rather give my money to Thailand than fill some accountant and lawyers pockets.. Just sell me a visa for 100k per year.. Do all the same vetting they do at the consuls.. Whats the issue ??

[aznyron]

This topic is obviously of extreme importance to a great many as evidenced by 250 people coming out of the woodwork and viewing the topic right now. I've been making my 30 day runs for 15 years consecutively and my plans are to continue doing so right into this thing. I will not be intimidated

Get stuck in there mate...show them that you mean business.

Just a idea for those who do 30 day border runs I went to Malaysia more than a year ago for a non im/o visa and getting off the plane they gave me 90 days so why not use them in malaysia and do a Singapore run after 90 and then return to Thailand that will give you your 6 months away from Thai. with the thai baht over valued maybe you would be better off going to malaysia were the ringit is stable If I did not have a investment here I would look in to Malaysia for living there it was very clean and it looked very nice to me and people spoke english which is a + for me since I do not speak thai.

[frenchFARANGbkk]

Still wondering why people need to speak again about something we all know and have been speaking since october ?! People might like old stories!

[LivinLOS]

I find Malaysia clean and interesting in a multi cultural kind of way.. Impressive KL.. Etc..

But would be looking to Cambodia for the visa runners more.. Presume money is an issue (otherwise form a dormant company or get a B via invite letters) and its got that wilder streak..

[LivinLOS]

Still wondering why people need to speak again about something we all know and have been speaking since october ?! People might like old stories!

Because they move the goalposts..

Because they have not started the implementation..

Because no one knows what they will really do..

[Lake]

Once again wrong information if Immigration is to be believed. It is the number of days in Thailand that is to be counted - not the number of entries.

Brit I met here came to Thailand in September, planning to stay until mid-January...had return ticket as he had planned his trip, got a 30 day on arrival at airport. November on his 60 day, he planned to take a run to Ranong, but his friend who was taking him couldn't go right away, so he got a 10 day extension. 10 days later in Ranong, they don't give anything, not even a 30 day unless you stay one night so they stayed over nite, maybe 2 at Beach Hotel. Upon coming over Thai side, they stamped his passport for 90 from the Sept. arrival date (before the law changed) which turned out to be Boxing Day. He had to change his ticket home (paid fee) but could only get a seat on Christmas nite.

Btw, looks like its not actually 90 full days as we lose a day each month. So if they are counting from Before Oct. 1, they could be counting from Oct. 1st for those of us who were here before Oct. 1st. I'm thinking even tho my Oct run was 22 Oct, and I thot I had til 17 Jan. we may all have only until Dec. 27 which is a lovely time to travel, right between Christmas and New Year, uh huh. Crap shoot depending where you go and the officer.

[isaanbrit]

This topic is obviously of extreme importance to a great many as evidenced by 250 people coming out of the woodwork and viewing the topic right now. I've been making my 30 day runs for 15 years consecutively and my plans are to continue doing so right into this thing. I will not be intimidated

Well done mate,

Intimidated????? If you can ride with their rules I fully support them in throwing you out. Can't you read - 30 day stamps are not a residency permit! You still seem to think they are - I think it is completely understandable that the Thais want to start taking note of who the hel_l is coming through their country, especially when you look at some of the stink bags that haunt some of the more ferang populated places.

You seem to think that it is your right, your basic human right, to live in Thailand completely unregistered for as long as you want - is that true?

[h90]

This topic is obviously of extreme importance to a great many as evidenced by 250 people coming out of the woodwork and viewing the topic right now. I've been making my 30 day runs for 15 years consecutively and my plans are to continue doing so right into this thing. I will not be intimidated

Very honourable sir, intimidated maybe not, by refused entry guaranteed.

I guess he'll get a 1 week visa, maybe later the give him only 2 days.

No problem if you live next to the border and you preorder passports per kg from your embassy

[isaanbrit]

Hi,

A couple of options for you:

1) In london you can get 3, 3 month tourists visas at the same time (effectively) http://www.thaiembassyuk.org.uk/tov.htm

So if you apply in London, show you have the funds, you could stay here for nine months no problems, not including extensions, getting a further 60 day from Laos and then 3, 30 day stamps.

2) For people wanting to live here permanently, I have learned a trick which I am reluctant to share but will - volunteer. If you volunteer for even one day a week in your local school they are then allowed to issue you with a visa and work permit to do so. So for just one or two days work a week, or if you can find one day's paid work a week even better - then you can stay as long as you like aswell as giving something back to the Thai community.

I think the value of the western farang is about to be understood.

The value of the western farang who comes here to do legitimate business or has the financial resources to obtain a retirement visa or comes as a tourist is already understood and Thailand continues to welcome them.

The western farang who hasn't the resources to do anything other than scurry across the border every 30 days before returning to some work that generates minimal income but no foreign exchange is also understood, which is why they want them to go home.

YOU ARE WRONG WRONG WRONG

The only people the Thais can view in this light are the old or the working.

I am 37, not married to a Thai, Independently wealthy, do not work here in Thailand. I return to my home country, wish to stay here for 11 months of the year. There are no provisions for this situation.

Take your blinkers off, there are more than 3 shelves of long term visitors in Thailand.

Here is another.

My friends is retired here and married. His daughter recently from the UK has had problems, so my friend has invited his daughter to stay with him here in Jomtien so she can take some time out of life. The only visa she can obtain is a 3 month tourist visa.

Her father is wealthy and can keep her financially. She will not be working, But after 3 months will need to return to England. Where is the provision for this.

This new rules will cost more than Thailand ever imagined. It will hurt many individual Thai families, local economies, business both small and large, government Tax.

Here is another.

Wealthy travelers, between commitments (maybe redundant with cash) in the west visits southeast asia with the thought of traveling throughout. Get to Thailand and decide to stay and not visit the other countries. After three months has to leave. Cannot be bothered to go back to their home country so just continue with their travels around asia taking spending money in other countries.

Here is another

Student 12 months traveling, same as above

GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE WORLD HAS MANY DIFFERNET PEOPLE WISHING TO TRAVEL THAT CANNOT NOW STAY IN THAILAND LONG TERM. And the biggest loser will be Thailand

[sanook mai?]

Well I am on my 2nd tourist visa stamp and am due next week to get my 3rd. I been going to Poi Pet for the previous 2 stamps and plan to go to the same place this time. I am assuming I should not have a problem but you never know............

I am wondering if it would make a difference if I go to a different border? I have nothing to hide. I just want my 3rd visa.

Edited December 16, 2006 by sanook mai?