Visa Difficult? So Now Farangs Feel What Asians Feel!

LaoPo · December 16, 2006

The OP has good points, very good!
Most of you are talking about the USA versus Thailand but I didn't see a post yet about 'Fortress Europe'....

It's extremely difficult for any Asian to get a tourist visa, even business Visa are hard to get. Some EU countries are more easy than others but in most cases it's extremely frustrating to get a Visa.

What visa for a -love-partner is concerned........it's a NIGHTMARE I tell you !

Basically it's more easy for any Westerner to get (if necessary at all) a visa for Thailand than for a Thai to get a visa for any Western country.

And: the latter counts for most Asian people with the exception of Japanese and South Koreans

LaoPo

LaoPo, my friend, can you think of any reasons why this here might be so?

That question is not appropriate as we all know why that is.

It was the OP's point that so many Farang are complaining about Thai Visa laws.

LaoPo

kudroz · December 17, 2006

apples and oranges

Krub · December 17, 2006

I agree with the OP. It is a disgrace the way western embassies treat the visa applications especially in Asia. It is a lottery at best a very humiliating experience a worst.

sting01 · December 17, 2006

Hi!
I'm not here to say that this is some sort of "good revenge" on western people, as many of these farangs in this forum had nothing to do with their own country's visa rules applied towards Asians.

However, this is interesting:

Case: Farang complains that while he has lived here for years, he is "not" illegally working here, so Thai government ppl are imbacils by making it hard for ALL farangs to get visas.

Comment: Even for legitimate Asian tourists from rich Asian families, do you know how ###### hard it is for us to get a visa in "your" countries USA, Australia, Canada, NZ, etc???

Even with our "complete documents" and proof that we are only going to visit your countries, your embassies deny us outright. We just take it with a grain of salt, accept that it's "your" country's "right and prerogative", and accept and admit that many of our fellow Asians decide to overstay in your countries to find illegal work, ... and so we just accept the USA visa denial.

Despite this, I've never heard of Farangs complaining that legitimate Asian tourists have a hard time getting visas in the West.

Well, wake up, smell the coffee! It's the same thing here in Thailand. So many farangs working illegally, and so Thai government makes it hard for "all" farangs, including "legitimate" ones.

The "legitimate" farangs complain that the "hard" rules shouldn't be applied to them, and that it should only be applied to the "non-legitimate" farangs.

These "legitimate" want the Thai government to go through the "painstaking trouble" of "carefully" studying each and every case of each and every farang and to make sure that it's applied to only the "bad" ones.

Well I agree with them.

However, following that logic, shouldn't Western governments such as yours also extend the same courtesy, and also go through the "painstaking trouble" of carefully studying each and every case of each and every Asian tourist, and make sure that only the "bad" ones are singled out???

Instead of also (just like the current Thai government) giving a difficult set of "blanket" rules for all Southeast Asians ??? (except Singapore passport)

I'm not saying that the current difficult set of rules is correct, nor am I saying that Farangs "deserve" this revenge (As I said earlier, it's your government who is doing this to Asians, not necessarily you directly).

I'm just showing the big picture, and that this is a mirror of what your Asian friends go through when applying for visas in your "first world" countries.

Point to ponder.

To answer about MY COUNTRY policy toward some other countries :

Citizens from Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam usually have no problem to apply for a visa to the French consulate, mostly those people or go to France to visit their familly, or they apply as migrants and as usually they are hard working person they are accepted.

For Thai people it's a bit more tricky I do agree, simply because the past it was a hel_l a problem with them. In 1999, the police had to close 12 massages parlors, 3 restaurants and one hotel in Port Frejus (Var, France). Those businesses were illegally open by thais people who applied for visas tourist (not migrant visas) , were not conform to the usual rules on hygiene, security and with the social laws. They were also more related to prostitution than massage or restauration. Rather than to comply when the fire soldiers went there the firs time, they (thai culture I suppose) tried to pay tea money to some local political men ...

So yes, it can be difficult for thai people to go in France because we do not need extra hookers (we have enought already), massage is a medical act and you have to study several years before to have the right to do it, we do prefer the taste of viet and chinese food , we love chilly but definitively we love the african chilly that are more tasteful. People willing to enter in france have tp proove they have a work in their homecountry (to be sure they will go back), or they have a contact in France (have to give official documentation) who can take care of them in case of overstaying. On the other hand, when you are in France and if you want to stay more, you just go to the police and ask for a new visa (3 month), if you land a job then that is your boss who will sign some papers and the police will deliver you a 10 years work visa ... Difficult? I do nt think so as long as you follow the rules. Complicate? I do not think so, and you should ask the hundreds of thousand of migrants who choose to livei n France every years, or the millions of tourist who come to visit with their familly France every year. I do have more hassle to stay in Thailand, even if I have a business here (legally registred, paying taxes too). Fact is Thailand and Thai people is willing to get my money, but is not willing to have me here.

On the other hand, I do support the move made since some month by Thai authorities to kick out those so called tourist who do in Thailand the exact same things that I described. Kick those who open illegal business, kick those who do not stay legally, kick those who do not comply to the laws. But on the same time, make it simple for those who have a life to stay here. No legal immigrant in France have to live the country to beg a new visa non b from an embassy abroad .... it's wasting time and money. In france a legal migrant will simply go to the police and apply there (a sunday or a saturday will be fine). Even in some difficult case, the police can go to the working place to collect the signature from the person to not make him/her to go to the police station (case of foreigner who speak french a little and who mostly are scare to go to the police).

And the lover visa .............. How can I apply for any kind of visa about my love life as the person I love is a Ladyboy? Does any Thai laws can make things smooth? If she want to go in France, she simply show the PACS we signed and she is entitle to a visa (can NOT be refused), she can apply also as French, as she got SRS she can also choose to have Miss (And not Mister) if oneday she decide to be french ... Where is thailand here?

Forget to say that I am out of this misery this week, me, my business, my money and my LB girlfriend we move to Laos ....

Heng · December 17, 2006

Hi!
I'm not here to say that this is some sort of "good revenge" on western people, as many of these farangs in this forum had nothing to do with their own country's visa rules applied towards Asians.

However, this is interesting:

Case: Farang complains that while he has lived here for years, he is "not" illegally working here, so Thai government ppl are imbacils by making it hard for ALL farangs to get visas.

Comment: Even for legitimate Asian tourists from rich Asian families, do you know how ###### hard it is for us to get a visa in "your" countries USA, Australia, Canada, NZ, etc???

In the big picture, IMO it balances out well in our (Asians) favor. It's more difficult for us to visit, true. But it's easier for us to settle down once there. It's easier for foreigners to visit, but more difficult for them to settle down. Just look at the numbers of Asians permanently living in western countries vs. the number of foreigners permanently living in Asia (over the past say... 200 or so years). In terms of numbers, there's a huge imbalance.

And that's just talking about the numbers. If you want to talk about the outflow of wealth and assets + investment in one's local environment: given the nature (broad generalization alert, and it varies of course) of Asian cultures vs. western cultures, this results in an outflow of wealth and assets from western countries more than it does from Asian countries. In short: they tend to burn their bridges, we don't. Sure, Asians invest in our local communities and businesses in western countries, but we also transfer a lot of it home to Asia. Most western foreigners don't do this.

Edited December 17, 2006 by Heng

sting01 · December 17, 2006

Hi!
I'm not here to say that this is some sort of "good revenge" on western people, as many of these farangs in this forum had nothing to do with their own country's visa rules applied towards Asians.

However, this is interesting:

Case: Farang complains that while he has lived here for years, he is "not" illegally working here, so Thai government ppl are imbacils by making it hard for ALL farangs to get visas.

Comment: Even for legitimate Asian tourists from rich Asian families, do you know how ###### hard it is for us to get a visa in "your" countries USA, Australia, Canada, NZ, etc???

In the big picture, IMO it balances out well in our (Asians) favor. It's more difficult for us to visit, true. But it's easier for us to settle down once there. It's easier for foreigners to visit, but more difficult for them to settle down. Just look at the numbers of Asians permanently living in western countries vs. the number of foreigners permanently living in Asia (over the past say... 200 or so years). In terms of numbers, there's a huge imbalance.

And that's just talking about the numbers. If you want to talk about the outflow of wealth and assets + investment in one's local environment: given the nature (broad generalization alert, and it varies of course) of Asian cultures vs. western cultures, this results in an outflow of wealth and assets from western countries more than it does from Asian countries. In short: they tend to burn their bridges, we don't. Sure, Asians invest in our local communities and businesses in western countries, but we also transfer a lot of it home to Asia. Most western foreigners don't do this.

One more Time Heng is right, and describe cleary the reality. Maybe he forget one point, Asian comunity at home are basically harder to accept foreigner then european (still Thai Chi people have hard time to mix with thai thai; or chinese in Malaysia ...).

dr_Pat_Pong · December 17, 2006

Brilliant observation and I couldn't agree with you more.

Seconded.

Krub · December 17, 2006

Hi!
I'm not here to say that this is some sort of "good revenge" on western people, as many of these farangs in this forum had nothing to do with their own country's visa rules applied towards Asians.

However, this is interesting:

Case: Farang complains that while he has lived here for years, he is "not" illegally working here, so Thai government ppl are imbacils by making it hard for ALL farangs to get visas.

Comment: Even for legitimate Asian tourists from rich Asian families, do you know how ###### hard it is for us to get a visa in "your" countries USA, Australia, Canada, NZ, etc???

Even with our "complete documents" and proof that we are only going to visit your countries, your embassies deny us outright. We just take it with a grain of salt, accept that it's "your" country's "right and prerogative", and accept and admit that many of our fellow Asians decide to overstay in your countries to find illegal work, ... and so we just accept the USA visa denial.

Despite this, I've never heard of Farangs complaining that legitimate Asian tourists have a hard time getting visas in the West.

Well, wake up, smell the coffee! It's the same thing here in Thailand. So many farangs working illegally, and so Thai government makes it hard for "all" farangs, including "legitimate" ones.

The "legitimate" farangs complain that the "hard" rules shouldn't be applied to them, and that it should only be applied to the "non-legitimate" farangs.

These "legitimate" want the Thai government to go through the "painstaking trouble" of "carefully" studying each and every case of each and every farang and to make sure that it's applied to only the "bad" ones.

Well I agree with them.

However, following that logic, shouldn't Western governments such as yours also extend the same courtesy, and also go through the "painstaking trouble" of carefully studying each and every case of each and every Asian tourist, and make sure that only the "bad" ones are singled out???

Instead of also (just like the current Thai government) giving a difficult set of "blanket" rules for all Southeast Asians ??? (except Singapore passport)

I'm not saying that the current difficult set of rules is correct, nor am I saying that Farangs "deserve" this revenge (As I said earlier, it's your government who is doing this to Asians, not necessarily you directly).

I'm just showing the big picture, and that this is a mirror of what your Asian friends go through when applying for visas in your "first world" countries.

Point to ponder.

To answer about MY COUNTRY policy toward some other countries :

Citizens from Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam usually have no problem to apply for a visa to the French consulate, mostly those people or go to France to visit their familly, or they apply as migrants and as usually they are hard working person they are accepted.

For Thai people it's a bit more tricky I do agree, simply because the past it was a hel_l a problem with them. In 1999, the police had to close 12 massages parlors, 3 restaurants and one hotel in Port Frejus (Var, France). Those businesses were illegally open by thais people who applied for visas tourist (not migrant visas) , were not conform to the usual rules on hygiene, security and with the social laws. They were also more related to prostitution than massage or restauration. Rather than to comply when the fire soldiers went there the firs time, they (thai culture I suppose) tried to pay tea money to some local political men ...

So yes, it can be difficult for thai people to go in France because we do not need extra hookers (we have enought already), massage is a medical act and you have to study several years before to have the right to do it, we do prefer the taste of viet and chinese food , we love chilly but definitively we love the african chilly that are more tasteful. People willing to enter in france have tp proove they have a work in their homecountry (to be sure they will go back), or they have a contact in France (have to give official documentation) who can take care of them in case of overstaying. On the other hand, when you are in France and if you want to stay more, you just go to the police and ask for a new visa (3 month), if you land a job then that is your boss who will sign some papers and the police will deliver you a 10 years work visa ... Difficult? I do nt think so as long as you follow the rules. Complicate? I do not think so, and you should ask the hundreds of thousand of migrants who choose to livei n France every years, or the millions of tourist who come to visit with their familly France every year. I do have more hassle to stay in Thailand, even if I have a business here (legally registred, paying taxes too). Fact is Thailand and Thai people is willing to get my money, but is not willing to have me here.

On the other hand, I do support the move made since some month by Thai authorities to kick out those so called tourist who do in Thailand the exact same things that I described. Kick those who open illegal business, kick those who do not stay legally, kick those who do not comply to the laws. But on the same time, make it simple for those who have a life to stay here. No legal immigrant in France have to live the country to beg a new visa non b from an embassy abroad .... it's wasting time and money. In france a legal migrant will simply go to the police and apply there (a sunday or a saturday will be fine). Even in some difficult case, the police can go to the working place to collect the signature from the person to not make him/her to go to the police station (case of foreigner who speak french a little and who mostly are scare to go to the police).

And the lover visa .............. How can I apply for any kind of visa about my love life as the person I love is a Ladyboy? Does any Thai laws can make things smooth? If she want to go in France, she simply show the PACS we signed and she is entitle to a visa (can NOT be refused), she can apply also as French, as she got SRS she can also choose to have Miss (And not Mister) if oneday she decide to be french ... Where is thailand here?

Forget to say that I am out of this misery this week, me, my business, my money and my LB girlfriend we move to Laos ....

France indeed seems like heaven on earth for the immigrants. that is why there is so much unrest in the outskirts of Paris.....

Roger Dodger · December 17, 2006

The OP has good points, very good!
Most of you are talking about the USA versus Thailand but I didn't see a post yet about 'Fortress Europe'....

It's extremely difficult for any Asian to get a tourist visa, even business Visa are hard to get. Some EU countries are more easy than others but in most cases it's extremely frustrating to get a Visa.

What visa for a -love-partner is concerned........it's a NIGHTMARE I tell you !

Basically it's more easy for any Westerner to get (if necessary at all) a visa for Thailand than for a Thai to get a visa for any Western country.

And: the latter counts for most Asian people with the exception of Japanese and South Koreans

LaoPo

LaoPo, my friend, can you think of any reasons why this here might be so?

That question is not appropriate as we all know why that is.

It was the OP's point that so many Farang are complaining about Thai Visa laws.

LaoPo

I don't see my question as being inappropriate in response to your post, though i do believe that we all know WHY.

Now, to come to this here forum to point out that "Farang are complaining about Thai Visa Laws" might be inappropriate since that's the general function of this forum.

Edited December 17, 2006 by Roger Dodger

junkofdavid2 · December 17, 2006

There is a very good reason why Thai people sometimes find it hard to get overseas visas.They tend to overstay a lot more than most nations.
While immigration can be very tough,they do have their reasons.

That's right. David, If you could get a visa to a first world country, you'd see that we got our undesirables over there too.

I agree with you. Following your logic, it would also be a "very good reason" for Thailand to make it hard for farangs to get visas, since just like many Asian tourists in America, many farangs find work illegally using the VOA with border runs.

I totally understand the "undesirable Asians" problem you have there, and I am admittedly embarassed when I travel to the US (or even just Singapore!) where I see my fellow countrymen (i'm not Singaporean) acting uncivilized and giving me a bad name... the same as decent farangs who get embarrassed when they see their fellow countrymen acting undesirable too.

ya know,i reakon I would get embarrassed if I had to talk to you for more than say...2 seconds.

Wow! You're so super witty man! I can't believe it! Whoo! You must have a PHD in debate or something...

junkofdavid2 · December 17, 2006

JOD2, out of interest - what asian country are you from?

Interesting question... interesting question indeed.

The Dan Sai Kid · December 17, 2006

So, would you like to answer it?

papakapbaan · December 17, 2006

JunkofDavid: As other posters already pointed out here: you compare apples with peers.

(Or oranges. In French, they say peers)

As far as I am concerned (egoistically), I do not have any problem with Thailand enforcing a 90 days IN/90 days OUT policy for "tourists". I am NOT a tourist.

I just notice that it does not make much sense economically.

Without old semantic like First and Third World...

Thailand NEEDS tourism income. Most Western countries DON'T.

(That's why you mix apples with peers, JunkofDavid)

THE POINT I AM COMPLAINING ABOUT IS: THAILAND MAKES IT INCREASINGLY AND INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT FOR ANYBODY TO *STAY* LONG TERM.

WHATEVER your reasons for being here PERMANENTLY (AS A "NON IMMIGRANT", thus):

-Marriage

-Children

-Business

IT IS BECOMING INCREASINGLY AND INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT.

Everywhere in the West, the above reasons are usually VERY VALID for PERMANENT stay (or extended stay, at least).

NOT IN THAILAND.

The only category that is truly welcome here... yeah... you guessed it (if you read my other posts today)...

are the ABOVE 50 YEARS OLD!

IT REALLY SEEMS LIKE ALL THE REST OF THE "ALIEN" POPULATION WOULD GET THE BOOT IF THE AUTHORITIES HAD THEIR WAY.

Bottom line these days.

---

Back to original topic: Thailand WILL BE WELL EMBARASSED WITH ITS STRICT POLICIES ON TOURIST VISAS.

They made it so hard for ordinary Westerners (EVEN THE WEALTHY WESTERNERS, I MEAN) to stay here long term that MANY (MANY!) OF THEM -- FOR DECADES -- HAD TO USE THE RECOURSE OF TOURIST VISAS TO BECOME DE FACTO RESIDENTS.

Laws have to be FAIR to be respected (and enforced!). AND TO FULLFIL THEIR INTENT.

The Thai Immigration authorities always wanted the impossible: keep as many NON-TOURIST foreigners as possible OUT. And as many TOURISTS as possible IN.

NOW THEY HAVE A MESS.

See... It's quite ironic and and of course it's going to come back again and again to bite them in the b-tt.

Over the years, a lot of de facto full time residents were never integrated into the system.

Today, we are told the Thai autorities suddenly want to clear their act and boot illegal workers out (and others who fall into grey areas! The baby with the bathwater!) .

AND THEY CLEARLY RISK LOSING THEIR TOURISTS AND FINANCIALLY SELF-SUFFICIENT FARANGS who are, as things stand, LOST IN THE MIX UP (not to say: MESS).

If this really happens BIG TIME: Som Nam Na!

junkofdavid2 · December 17, 2006

THE POINT I AM COMPLAINING ABOUT IS: THAILAND MAKES IT INCREASINGLY AND INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT FOR ANYBODY TO *STAY* LONG TERM.
WHATEVER your reasons for being here PERMANENTLY (AS A "NON IMMIGRANT", thus):

-Marriage

-Children

-Business

IT IS BECOMING INCREASINGLY AND INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT.

Everywhere in the West, the above reasons are usually VERY VALID for PERMANENT stay (or extended stay, at least).

NOT IN THAILAND.

The only category that is truly welcome here... yeah... you guessed it (if you read my other posts today)...

are the ABOVE 50 YEARS OLD!

IT REALLY SEEMS LIKE ALL THE REST OF THE "ALIEN" POPULATION WOULD GET THE BOOT IF THE AUTHORITIES HAD THEIR WAY.

Bottom line these days.

---

Back to original topic: Thailand WILL BE WELL EMBARASSED WITH ITS STRICT POLICIES ON TOURIST VISAS.

They made it so hard for ordinary Westerners (EVEN THE WEALTHY WESTERNERS, I MEAN) to stay here long term that MANY (MANY!) OF THEM -- FOR DECADES -- HAD TO USE THE RECOURSE OF TOURIST VISAS TO BECOME DE FACTO RESIDENTS.

Laws have to be FAIR to be respected (and enforced!). AND TO FULLFIL THEIR INTENT.

The Thai Immigration authorities always wanted the impossible: keep as many NON-TOURIST foreigners as possible OUT. And as many TOURISTS as possible IN.

NOW THEY HAVE A MESS.

See... It's quite ironic and and of course it's going to come back again and again to bite them in the b-tt.

Over the years, a lot of de facto full time residents were never integrated into the system.

Today, we are told the Thai autorities suddenly want to clear their act and boot illegal workers out (and others who fall into grey areas! The baby with the bathwater!) .

AND THEY CLEARLY RISK LOSING THEIR TOURISTS AND FINANCIALLY SELF-SUFFICIENT FARANGS who are, as things stand, LOST IN THE MIX UP (not to say: MESS).

If this really happens BIG TIME: Som Nam Na!

I agree with you... no argument there...

"Thailand NEEDS tourism income. Most Western countries DON'T"

Yup, I agree with you there. Unfortunately for most on this forum (including me before, until I got a 1-year multiple non-, it's their discretion on how and when to get that tourism income, as silly as it may seem

jumnien · December 17, 2006

The reality is it is getting easier and easier to stay in Thailand for foreigners. I've been here 9 years and seen it change a lot. In Hua Hin 9 years ago were very few foreigners, maybe 150; now there are many, many thousands. It was hard to find a Bangkok Post, no real coffee shop, no supermarket, no mall, no conveniences that a foreigner is used to. Now, a middle class woman from Finland or Norway can move in quite comfortably and have all the conveniences of home. And the visa situation is not stopping anyone, with the elimination of visa runs every 30 days it's improving. If foreigners can't get to Penang every 2 or 3 months or get a proper one year visa, perhaps they shouldn't be here. Who really liked going to Burma every 30 days. It's kind of like the nostalgia for Don Muang Airport - I don't think it will last.

lopburi3 · December 17, 2006

If foreigners can't get to Penang every 2 or 3 months or get a proper one year visa, perhaps they shouldn't be here.

FYI: One year visas are not available in Penang.

papakapbaan · December 17, 2006

mdland: Yes, there surely are a lot of more of Farangs staying permanently in Thailand than, say, 10 years ago (I was there already as a tourist)

But please make a difference between DE FACTO residents and 100% LEGAL residents (read: in other words: residents on YEARLY EXTENSIONS granted by a local Immigration office).

My point is exactly this!

Because -for decades- the processes to say permanently in Thailand (THUS: to stay with better than so called VOA, TOURIST VISAS and continuous NON-IMMIGRANT VISAS) were so CUBERSOME and RESTRICTIVE for a MAJORITY of foreigners, we now have a situation where a MAJORITY of Farangs somehow RUN TO THE BORDERS EVERY 30 or 90 DAYS.

This bunch of de facto permanent stayers include some real long term tourists and financially self-sufficiant long term stayers below 50 years old (including some fathers/mothers of Thai citizens BTW!)

If the Thai Immigration only had more realistic/open policies towards the majority of long term stayers, they would not have to clean their mess today with unrealistic rules that are going to throw the baby away with the bathwater!

Added:

Baby = the tourists, the financially self-sufficient below 50, including financially self-sufficient parents of Thai children below 50 and other the shades of gray, surely, benefitial to Thailand.

Bathwater = illegal workers and obviously undesired characters that, for decades, were allowed under a porous system BLINDLY AIMED AT MAXIMIZING THE NUMBERS OF TOURISTS AND MINIMIZING THE NUMBERS OF LONG TERM STAYERS.

(Creating a huge messy bunch of DE FACTO stayers)

Edited December 17, 2006 by papakapbaan

jumnien · December 17, 2006

Don't want any babies tossed out with the bathwater, agreed. What I am saying is that more and more people are coming to live here in Thailand and they do find relatively simple ways to comply with the visa situation. For the ever-increasing majority of foreigners in Thailand this doesn't seem to be a problem.

"This bunch of de facto permanent stayers include some real long term tourists and financially self-sufficiant long term stayers below 50 years old (including some fathers/mothers of Thai citizens BTW!)" You hit the nail on the head, that's me!

Roger Dodger · December 17, 2006

There is a very good reason why Thai people sometimes find it hard to get overseas visas.They tend to overstay a lot more than most nations.
While immigration can be very tough,they do have their reasons.

That's right. David, If you could get a visa to a first world country, you'd see that we got our undesirables over there too.

I agree with you. Following your logic, it would also be a "very good reason" for Thailand to make it hard for farangs to get visas, since just like many Asian tourists in America, many farangs find work illegally using the VOA with border runs.

I totally understand the "undesirable Asians" problem you have there, and I am admittedly embarassed when I travel to the US (or even just Singapore!) where I see my fellow countrymen (i'm not Singaporean) acting uncivilized and giving me a bad name... the same as decent farangs who get embarrassed when they see their fellow countrymen acting undesirable too.

ya know,i reakon I would get embarrassed if I had to talk to you for more than say...2 seconds.

Wow! You're so super witty man! I can't believe it! Whoo! You must have a PHD in debate or something...

I'm embarrassed Already.

thai_narak · December 17, 2006

To answer about MY COUNTRY policy toward some other countries :
Citizens from Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam usually have no problem to apply for a visa to the French consulate, mostly those people or go to France to visit their familly, or they apply as migrants and as usually they are hard working person they are accepted.

For Thai people it's a bit more tricky I do agree, simply because the past it was a hel_l a problem with them. In 1999, the police had to close 12 massages parlors, 3 restaurants and one hotel in Port Frejus (Var, France). Those businesses were illegally open by thais people who applied for visas tourist (not migrant visas) , were not conform to the usual rules on hygiene, security and with the social laws. They were also more related to prostitution than massage or restauration. Rather than to comply when the fire soldiers went there the firs time, they (thai culture I suppose) tried to pay tea money to some local political men ...

So yes, it can be difficult for thai people to go in France because we do not need extra hookers (we have enought already), massage is a medical act and you have to study several years before to have the right to do it, we do prefer the taste of viet and chinese food , we love chilly but definitively we love the african chilly that are more tasteful. People willing to enter in france have tp proove they have a work in their homecountry (to be sure they will go back), or they have a contact in France (have to give official documentation) who can take care of them in case of overstaying. On the other hand, when you are in France and if you want to stay more, you just go to the police and ask for a new visa (3 month), if you land a job then that is your boss who will sign some papers and the police will deliver you a 10 years work visa ... Difficult? I do nt think so as long as you follow the rules. Complicate? I do not think so, and you should ask the hundreds of thousand of migrants who choose to livei n France every years, or the millions of tourist who come to visit with their familly France every year. I do have more hassle to stay in Thailand, even if I have a business here (legally registred, paying taxes too). Fact is Thailand and Thai people is willing to get my money, but is not willing to have me here.

On the other hand, I do support the move made since some month by Thai authorities to kick out those so called tourist who do in Thailand the exact same things that I described. Kick those who open illegal business, kick those who do not stay legally, kick those who do not comply to the laws. But on the same time, make it simple for those who have a life to stay here. No legal immigrant in France have to live the country to beg a new visa non b from an embassy abroad .... it's wasting time and money. In france a legal migrant will simply go to the police and apply there (a sunday or a saturday will be fine). Even in some difficult case, the police can go to the working place to collect the signature from the person to not make him/her to go to the police station (case of foreigner who speak french a little and who mostly are scare to go to the police).

And the lover visa .............. How can I apply for any kind of visa about my love life as the person I love is a Ladyboy? Does any Thai laws can make things smooth? If she want to go in France, she simply show the PACS we signed and she is entitle to a visa (can NOT be refused), she can apply also as French, as she got SRS she can also choose to have Miss (And not Mister) if oneday she decide to be french ... Where is thailand here?

Forget to say that I am out of this misery this week, me, my business, my money and my LB girlfriend we move to Laos ....

I totally agree with this post. Well said my friend...

Additionally, LOS has the most inhumane VISA rules for married couples. In the US and EU, if you are married to locals it is as easy as pie to get a VISA to stay with your family. In LOS, they treat you like dirt... WHAT A SHAME!

Edited December 17, 2006 by thai_narak

deathmetalxxx · December 17, 2006

You can keep your Los Angeles.
Pile of poo

haha i agree

Heng · December 17, 2006

Thailand NEEDS tourism income. Most Western countries DON'T.

Thailand WANTS tourism income. Thailand wants tourists who take their vacations like normal folks (less than 3 months... and without spending the rest of their lives at their vacation destinations on tourist visas). For immigrants, there are other options that have nothing to do with tourism.

Krub · December 17, 2006

Additionally, LOS has the most inhumane VISA rules for married couples. In the US and EU, if you are married to locals it is as easy as pie to get a VISA to stay with your family. In LOS, they treat you like dirt... WHAT A SHAME!

You should spend some time reading the followig threads : Visas and migration to other countries

Then come back and read your statement that it is easy to get visa to US and EU

it is not easy it is either a lottery or a humiliating experience they have to got through

sbk · December 17, 2006

Additionally, LOS has the most inhumane VISA rules for married couples. In the US and EU, if you are married to locals it is as easy as pie to get a VISA to stay with your family. In LOS, they treat you like dirt... WHAT A SHAME!

You should spend some time reading the followig threads : Visas and migration to other countries

Then come back and read your statement that it is easy to get visa to US and EU

it is not easy it is either a lottery or a humiliating experience they have to got through

Funnily enough, it was neither a lottery nor humiliating for my husband and I when we applied after we first got married. Oddly enough, we were both quite young, I had no job in the US, had just finished University and we planned on living with my parents and getting it was no huge difficulty. Lots of paperwork, yes, but eventually, because we qualified and my husband had no criminal record, it came through.

I often wonder how many people who have difficulties find they do so because they don't actually qualify?

davidjtayler · December 17, 2006

Additionally, LOS has the most inhumane VISA rules for married couples. In the US and EU, if you are married to locals it is as easy as pie to get a VISA to stay with your family. In LOS, they treat you like dirt... WHAT A SHAME!

You should spend some time reading the followig threads : Visas and migration to other countries

Then come back and read your statement that it is easy to get visa to US and EU

it is not easy it is either a lottery or a humiliating experience they have to got through

Funnily enough, it was neither a lottery nor humiliating for my husband and I when we applied after we first got married. Oddly enough, we were both quite young, I had no job in the US, had just finished University and we planned on living with my parents and getting it was no huge difficulty. Lots of paperwork, yes, but eventually, because we qualified and my husband had no criminal record, it came through.

I often wonder how many people who have difficulties find they do so because they don't actually qualify?

I haven't had any issues to complain about Thai beaurocracy since getting married here in Thailand and am now on my third 'Thai wife' visa ... last year applied for a US visa for my wife (I'm from the UK and she's Thai of course) and my experience with the US embassy was great ... very nice guy who conducted the interview and within 2 days my wife had a 10 year multi tourist visa ... so it's not all bad news

Edited December 17, 2006 by davidjtayler

LaoPo · December 17, 2006

Funnily enough, it was neither a lottery nor humiliating for my husband and I when we applied after we first got married. Oddly enough, we were both quite young, I had no job in the US, had just finished University and we planned on living with my parents and getting it was no huge difficulty. Lots of paperwork, yes, but eventually, because we qualified and my husband had no criminal record, it came through.
I often wonder how many people who have difficulties find they do so because they don't actually qualify?

Maybe so, sbk, and you were both fortunate.

The USA is not the same USA anymore since you married and that was quite some time ago. But you know better than me.

The US has become an unfriendly country to visit. The number of tourists is in sharp decline and even the number of business visitors is going down.

I read an article that the US ministry of tourism is talking now with Disney about HOW to stop this trend...

Not so long ago many Europeans were visiting the US for a holiday...not anymore.

I always enjoyed visiting the US untill some 10-12 years ago; I even built my own business in SF/California but it's no fun anymore since people do NOT enjoy handing over all their private information to the US authorities and waiting in line for hours once arriving at the airport(s) greeted by unfriendly customs/passport authorities asking (again) so many questions.

Sad but true.

LaoPo

Roger Dodger · December 17, 2006

Funnily enough, it was neither a lottery nor humiliating for my husband and I when we applied after we first got married. Oddly enough, we were both quite young, I had no job in the US, had just finished University and we planned on living with my parents and getting it was no huge difficulty. Lots of paperwork, yes, but eventually, because we qualified and my husband had no criminal record, it came through.
I often wonder how many people who have difficulties find they do so because they don't actually qualify?

Maybe so, sbk, and you were both fortunate.

The USA is not the same USA anymore since you married and that was quite some time ago. But you know better than me.

The US has become an unfriendly country to visit. The number of tourists is in sharp decline and even the number of business visitors is going down.

I read an article that the US ministry of tourism is talking now with Disney about HOW to stop this trend...

Not so long ago many Europeans were visiting the US for a holiday...not anymore.

I always enjoyed visiting the US untill some 10-12 years ago; I even built my own business in SF/California but it's no fun anymore since people do NOT enjoy handing over all their private information to the US authorities and waiting in line for hours once arriving at the airport(s) greeted by unfriendly customs/passport authorities asking (again) so many questions.

Sad but true.

LaoPo

What does a tourism decline in the US have to do with obtaining a visa? What role does Walt Disney play in the issuing of visas? What do new European holiday trends have to do with US visas? What does you thinking that the US is "no fun anymore" have to do with US visa policies??

Both you and the OP have obtained the visas that you're complaining it's too hard to obtain... was the paperwork THAT difficult?

BTW, there is no Ministry of Tourism in the US.

and customs officials are not meant to be friendly.

Sad but true.

DrDweeb · December 17, 2006

Hi!
I'm not here to say that this is some sort of "good revenge" on western people, as many of these farangs in this forum had nothing to do with their own country's visa rules applied towards Asians.

However, this is interesting:

Case: Farang complains that while he has lived here for years, he is "not" illegally working here, so Thai government ppl are imbacils by making it hard for ALL farangs to get visas.

Comment: Even for legitimate Asian tourists from rich Asian families, do you know how ###### hard it is for us to get a visa in "your" countries USA, Australia, Canada, NZ, etc???

Even with our "complete documents" and proof that we are only going to visit your countries, your embassies deny us outright. We just take it with a grain of salt, accept that it's "your" country's "right and prerogative", and accept and admit that many of our fellow Asians decide to overstay in your countries to find illegal work, ... and so we just accept the USA visa denial.

Despite this, I've never heard of Farangs complaining that legitimate Asian tourists have a hard time getting visas in the West.

Well, wake up, smell the coffee! It's the same thing here in Thailand. So many farangs working illegally, and so Thai government makes it hard for "all" farangs, including "legitimate" ones.

The "legitimate" farangs complain that the "hard" rules shouldn't be applied to them, and that it should only be applied to the "non-legitimate" farangs.

These "legitimate" want the Thai government to go through the "painstaking trouble" of "carefully" studying each and every case of each and every farang and to make sure that it's applied to only the "bad" ones.

Well I agree with them.

However, following that logic, shouldn't Western governments such as yours also extend the same courtesy, and also go through the "painstaking trouble" of carefully studying each and every case of each and every Asian tourist, and make sure that only the "bad" ones are singled out???

Instead of also (just like the current Thai government) giving a difficult set of "blanket" rules for all Southeast Asians ??? (except Singapore passport)

I'm not saying that the current difficult set of rules is correct, nor am I saying that Farangs "deserve" this revenge (As I said earlier, it's your government who is doing this to Asians, not necessarily you directly).

I'm just showing the big picture, and that this is a mirror of what your Asian friends go through when applying for visas in your "first world" countries.

Point to ponder.

To answer about MY COUNTRY policy toward some other countries :

Citizens from Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam usually have no problem to apply for a visa to the French consulate, mostly those people or go to France to visit their familly, or they apply as migrants and as usually they are hard working person they are accepted.

For Thai people it's a bit more tricky I do agree, simply because the past it was a hel_l a problem with them. In 1999, the police had to close 12 massages parlors, 3 restaurants and one hotel in Port Frejus (Var, France). Those businesses were illegally open by thais people who applied for visas tourist (not migrant visas) , were not conform to the usual rules on hygiene, security and with the social laws. They were also more related to prostitution than massage or restauration. Rather than to comply when the fire soldiers went there the firs time, they (thai culture I suppose) tried to pay tea money to some local political men ...

So yes, it can be difficult for thai people to go in France because we do not need extra hookers (we have enought already), massage is a medical act and you have to study several years before to have the right to do it, we do prefer the taste of viet and chinese food , we love chilly but definitively we love the african chilly that are more tasteful. People willing to enter in france have tp proove they have a work in their homecountry (to be sure they will go back), or they have a contact in France (have to give official documentation) who can take care of them in case of overstaying. On the other hand, when you are in France and if you want to stay more, you just go to the police and ask for a new visa (3 month), if you land a job then that is your boss who will sign some papers and the police will deliver you a 10 years work visa ... Difficult? I do nt think so as long as you follow the rules. Complicate? I do not think so, and you should ask the hundreds of thousand of migrants who choose to livei n France every years, or the millions of tourist who come to visit with their familly France every year. I do have more hassle to stay in Thailand, even if I have a business here (legally registred, paying taxes too). Fact is Thailand and Thai people is willing to get my money, but is not willing to have me here.

On the other hand, I do support the move made since some month by Thai authorities to kick out those so called tourist who do in Thailand the exact same things that I described. Kick those who open illegal business, kick those who do not stay legally, kick those who do not comply to the laws. But on the same time, make it simple for those who have a life to stay here. No legal immigrant in France have to live the country to beg a new visa non b from an embassy abroad .... it's wasting time and money. In france a legal migrant will simply go to the police and apply there (a sunday or a saturday will be fine). Even in some difficult case, the police can go to the working place to collect the signature from the person to not make him/her to go to the police station (case of foreigner who speak french a little and who mostly are scare to go to the police).

And the lover visa .............. How can I apply for any kind of visa about my love life as the person I love is a Ladyboy? Does any Thai laws can make things smooth? If she want to go in France, she simply show the PACS we signed and she is entitle to a visa (can NOT be refused), she can apply also as French, as she got SRS she can also choose to have Miss (And not Mister) if oneday she decide to be french ... Where is thailand here?

Forget to say that I am out of this misery this week, me, my business, my money and my LB girlfriend we move to Laos ....

France indeed seems like heaven on earth for the immigrants. that is why there is so much unrest in the outskirts of Paris.....

I did not notice the buddhists or christians or taoists or hindus or shintos or lutherans rioting.

Am I being clear ?

I live in Europe - you want that discussion, take it another thread and we will be happy to educate you

Dweeb

papakapbaan · December 17, 2006

Thailand NEEDS tourism income. Most Western countries DON'T.

Thailand WANTS tourism income. Thailand wants tourists who take their vacations like normal folks (less than 3 months... and without spending the rest of their lives at their vacation destinations on tourist visas). For immigrants, there are other options that have nothing to do with tourism.

Sorry Heng, it's not just a desire: it's a NEED.

In 2006 it is STILL A NEED for a developing country like Thailand.

(Fast developing, OK)

Anyway. Did you read my post??

Of course there must be a differenciation betwen tourists and "immigrants".

I keep repeating: I am NOT a TOURIST.

I even REFUSE DOUBLE ENTRY TOURIST VISAS offered by the Thai embassy in my country.

I'd still prefer SINGLE ENTRY NON-O (I am a man of principles) (LOST in LOS!).

I say: THIS is EXACTLY the problem faced by the Thai authorities (Immigration) today:

(1) For decades, they made it close to impossible for immigrants to stay permanently:

As of today: (Called "non-immigrant" BTW)

-Anyway: at best: permitted to stay for one year at a time (married for 20-30 years: same: 20-30 yearly extensions)

-Below 50 years old: we don't want to hear about your money!

-Father/mother below 50 years old: we don't even want to consider your case! Money is not the issue.

-Working with less than 65,000/m salary: run to the border every 3 months and renew your work permit every 3 months!

-Working without 4 Thai employees in your company (or your employer CO): same.

-Did I forget anything? Oh... Surely! Like volunteers and NGO workers: getting all the hassles of the world here!

(BTW HENG, WHO CAN NOT SEE IT? THE XENOPHOBIA, the morbid fear of the white foreigner, of the round eyes............)

(2) In the same time, for decades, they made it easy as pie for tourists to visit and re-visit.

(3) END RESULT: A LOT OF DE FACTO RESIDENTS UNABLE TO LEGALISE THEIR SITUATION MASQUERADING AS TOURISTS AND RUNNING TO THE BORDER EVERY 30 OR 60 DAYS. (PLUS ANOTHER HUGE BUNCH OF "NON-IMMIGRANTS" DOING THE SAME ON MULTIPLE ENTRY VISAS EVERY 90 DAYS)

ONLY PROBLEM NOW WHEN THE THAI AUTHORITIES WANT TO CLEAN THE MESS:

There are a lot of VERY GOOD, VERY DESIRABLES people in this bunch of the facto permanent stayers, including many financially self-sufficient people who, I am absolutely convinced, contribute to the Thai economy.

They are throwing the baby away with the bathwater.

HENG:

If only you had REASONABLE REGULATIONS FOR LONG TERM STAY FROM THE BEGINNING: you would not have this mess and mix up of DESIRABLES AND UNDESIRABLES IN THE VERY SAME BOAT!!!

(Give it a thought? I'm telling YOU because... well... I think you know why I speak to "you"...)

Krub · December 17, 2006

Hi!
I'm not here to say that this is some sort of "good revenge" on western people, as many of these farangs in this forum had nothing to do with their own country's visa rules applied towards Asians.

However, this is interesting:

Case: Farang complains that while he has lived here for years, he is "not" illegally working here, so Thai government ppl are imbacils by making it hard for ALL farangs to get visas.

Comment: Even for legitimate Asian tourists from rich Asian families, do you know how ###### hard it is for us to get a visa in "your" countries USA, Australia, Canada, NZ, etc???

Even with our "complete documents" and proof that we are only going to visit your countries, your embassies deny us outright. We just take it with a grain of salt, accept that it's "your" country's "right and prerogative", and accept and admit that many of our fellow Asians decide to overstay in your countries to find illegal work, ... and so we just accept the USA visa denial.

Despite this, I've never heard of Farangs complaining that legitimate Asian tourists have a hard time getting visas in the West.

Well, wake up, smell the coffee! It's the same thing here in Thailand. So many farangs working illegally, and so Thai government makes it hard for "all" farangs, including "legitimate" ones.

The "legitimate" farangs complain that the "hard" rules shouldn't be applied to them, and that it should only be applied to the "non-legitimate" farangs.

These "legitimate" want the Thai government to go through the "painstaking trouble" of "carefully" studying each and every case of each and every farang and to make sure that it's applied to only the "bad" ones.

Well I agree with them.

However, following that logic, shouldn't Western governments such as yours also extend the same courtesy, and also go through the "painstaking trouble" of carefully studying each and every case of each and every Asian tourist, and make sure that only the "bad" ones are singled out???

Instead of also (just like the current Thai government) giving a difficult set of "blanket" rules for all Southeast Asians ??? (except Singapore passport)

I'm not saying that the current difficult set of rules is correct, nor am I saying that Farangs "deserve" this revenge (As I said earlier, it's your government who is doing this to Asians, not necessarily you directly).

I'm just showing the big picture, and that this is a mirror of what your Asian friends go through when applying for visas in your "first world" countries.

Point to ponder.

To answer about MY COUNTRY policy toward some other countries :

Citizens from Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam usually have no problem to apply for a visa to the French consulate, mostly those people or go to France to visit their familly, or they apply as migrants and as usually they are hard working person they are accepted.

For Thai people it's a bit more tricky I do agree, simply because the past it was a hel_l a problem with them. In 1999, the police had to close 12 massages parlors, 3 restaurants and one hotel in Port Frejus (Var, France). Those businesses were illegally open by thais people who applied for visas tourist (not migrant visas) , were not conform to the usual rules on hygiene, security and with the social laws. They were also more related to prostitution than massage or restauration. Rather than to comply when the fire soldiers went there the firs time, they (thai culture I suppose) tried to pay tea money to some local political men ...

So yes, it can be difficult for thai people to go in France because we do not need extra hookers (we have enought already), massage is a medical act and you have to study several years before to have the right to do it, we do prefer the taste of viet and chinese food , we love chilly but definitively we love the african chilly that are more tasteful. People willing to enter in france have tp proove they have a work in their homecountry (to be sure they will go back), or they have a contact in France (have to give official documentation) who can take care of them in case of overstaying. On the other hand, when you are in France and if you want to stay more, you just go to the police and ask for a new visa (3 month), if you land a job then that is your boss who will sign some papers and the police will deliver you a 10 years work visa ... Difficult? I do nt think so as long as you follow the rules. Complicate? I do not think so, and you should ask the hundreds of thousand of migrants who choose to livei n France every years, or the millions of tourist who come to visit with their familly France every year. I do have more hassle to stay in Thailand, even if I have a business here (legally registred, paying taxes too). Fact is Thailand and Thai people is willing to get my money, but is not willing to have me here.

On the other hand, I do support the move made since some month by Thai authorities to kick out those so called tourist who do in Thailand the exact same things that I described. Kick those who open illegal business, kick those who do not stay legally, kick those who do not comply to the laws. But on the same time, make it simple for those who have a life to stay here. No legal immigrant in France have to live the country to beg a new visa non b from an embassy abroad .... it's wasting time and money. In france a legal migrant will simply go to the police and apply there (a sunday or a saturday will be fine). Even in some difficult case, the police can go to the working place to collect the signature from the person to not make him/her to go to the police station (case of foreigner who speak french a little and who mostly are scare to go to the police).

And the lover visa .............. How can I apply for any kind of visa about my love life as the person I love is a Ladyboy? Does any Thai laws can make things smooth? If she want to go in France, she simply show the PACS we signed and she is entitle to a visa (can NOT be refused), she can apply also as French, as she got SRS she can also choose to have Miss (And not Mister) if oneday she decide to be french ... Where is thailand here?

Forget to say that I am out of this misery this week, me, my business, my money and my LB girlfriend we move to Laos ....

France indeed seems like heaven on earth for the immigrants. that is why there is so much unrest in the outskirts of Paris.....

I did not notice the buddhists or christians or taoists or hindus or shintos or lutherans rioting.

Am I being clear ?

I live in Europe - you want that discussion, take it another thread and we will be happy to educate you

Dweeb

I live in Asia and I know first hand how Asians are treated at various western embassies when they try to get visas for 'normal' visits ans we westerners should be ashamed of what's going on a daily basis.

That was my point.

I agree riots in France is out of topic in this thread but it is another real picture of the 'Douce France' you described.

I will decline your offer of education thank you

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