Scotland's Sturgeon says: I can win an independence vote

[RuamRudy]

YOU forgot to mention that Tony WMD Blair and his deputy, Gordon Bigot Brown are also both Scottish. Therefore it's only right to mention that they did nothing for England, apart from damaging the country far more than Adolf Hitler.  

I don't think that their country of birth is particularly relevant in the above matter, but history will judge them both. Brown will probably come off less bad than Blair, but the true culprit cast as responsible for the demise of the UK will surely be Cameron?

[evadgib]

Its conceivable that UK allows Gibraltar to remain in the EU while remaining an overseas territory. This would allow trade to flourish and kick her chair away at a single stroke.

[overherebc]

15 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Or at least wait until oil prices improve?

?

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, nontabury said:

YOU forgot to mention that Tony WMD Blair and his deputy, Gordon Bigot Brown are also both Scottish. Therefore it's only right to mention that they did nothing for England, apart from damaging the country far more than Adolf Hitler.  

Well one hears some tripe on here but the above takes the prize for ignorance.

[Mansell]

14 hours ago, oxo1947 said:

There not the brightest people (financially wise) the Scots are they ?

I mean to go bankrupt by putting over 50% of all your countries money into trying to build a way to move goods from the east coast of S America to the West coast..... then forgetting just that little item of asking the people that actually owned the land .."is that OK' then ? .......No its not !! ........oh <deleted> -OK then we seem to have lost all our money ...best ask the English if they can bail us out.

 

When will Scots grow up and accept that they are not always victims, and that their own people messed up and bankrupted their nation. With no option other than to approach their counterparts in England to ask for help. Did they expect all the money for nothing, with no guarantees? The Union did come from the disaster of the Darien Scheme. Hubris does usually have a price!
I bet many Scots people are not even aware of the Darien Scheme. It is high time they learned of it; high time many stopped repeating myths and blaming the English for all their troubles. I won't be holding my breath though........................

.

 

An attempt, called the Darien scheme, sought to establish a new Scottish colony in the New World at the Isthmus of Panama. This scheme is often blamed for the virtual collapse of Scotland’s economy, and is cited as a key factor in the 1707 Treaty of Union between England and Scotland. ..............https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme

 

 

So you are quoting something from over 300 years ago.....yeah, that has real relevance to today's world................NOT. 

[oxo1947]

23 minutes ago, Mansell said:

So you are quoting something from over 300 years ago.....yeah, that has real relevance to today's world................NOT. 

 

I am quoting WHY Scotland ended up being part of Britain--- because there is a lot of Scots ignorance of their own history---Some really believe its because there was an invasion from England--/--Mel Gibson lost the battle etc.etc.

If you do not feel that it is relevant why the two countries are joined together -(BECAUSE SCOTLAND ASKED...Begged would be more appropriate) ---then you are either Scots......or...... .....yes Forum rules , don't let me expand any further.

[RuamRudy]

 

I am quoting WHY Scotland ended up being part of Britain--- because there is a lot of Scots ignorance of their own history---Some really believe its because there was an invasion from England--/--Mel Gibson lost the battle etc.etc.

If you do not feel that it is relevant why the two countries are joined together -(BECAUSE SCOTLAND ASKED...Begged would be more appropriate) ---then you are either Scots......or...... .....yes Forum rules , don't let me expand any further.

Then why cherry pick to paint us as a failed nation? The failure of the Darien scheme was very nuanced and hardly represented in your biased diatribe.

As for Scotland begging to be let into the union, you make it sound like there was a plebiscite to agree the issue, rather than being a hugely unpopular move by an effete elite.

But you are correct that Scottish history was woefully neglected by schools, at least when I attended in the 70s and 80s. I was forced to learn about the battle of Hastings and the war of the roses but very little about my own country and it's past. I believe the intent was deliberate cultural whitewashing.

But note that Scotland has always been part of Britain and will continue to be so, regardless of how the independence referendum goes. That is less to do with politics and more to do with plate tectonics.

[oxo1947]

16 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Then why cherry pick to paint us as a failed nation? The failure of the Darien scheme was very nuanced and hardly represented in your biased diatribe.

RR, If you see my expansion on the reasons Scotland found itself united with England--as a Biased Diatribe.Then my apologies. (but please feel free to elaborate on what part of the explanation on the Darien scheme was Biased) 

  The last post was in answer to Mansell telling my that the history of why Scotland is in this position (part of the union) is..Yeah, not relevant in today's world.

45 minutes ago, oxo1947 said:

.yeah, that has real relevance to today's world................NOT. 

Scotland a failed nation---no I don't believe I wrote that, (in fact I wrote in agreement with WAWD--that their inventions far outnumber any other sized population)-----I did write about the stupidity of the scheme (as I am sure you know the person who thought it up and sold it --so to speak- never went there. The money didn't come from the working people---but-as always- they bore the burden.

Yes I am a pupuil of the 50s school system, so I can certainly relate to the fact that "our Kingdom done no wrong" attitude.& the woeful lack of facts in the education system.

 

52 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

But note that Scotland has always been part of Britain and will continue to be so, regardless of how the independence referendum goes. That is less to do with politics and more to do with plate tectonics

I don't know if I can agree completely with you on that RR...... Germany is plate tectonic with Poland/France ...... Russia with Ukraine etc.

I think the frustration of late comes from your lady..... there just seems to be no end to the BRExit/Trump .....lets have a vote on it---Oh we lost...lets have another one philosophy.

[Keesters]

If she got all of the UK to vote rather than just Scotland she would definitely win. England and Wales can't wait to get rid of the winging Scots.

 

 

 

[kamahele]

I don't have a horse in this race, but I had wished the UK could have negotiated changes to the EU agreement rather than opt out and I would like to see Scotland stay in the EU. That being said, a mention  that most Scots voted in favor of staying in the UK is misleading . A majority of the population of Scotland did vote to stay in the union but native born Scots voted heavily in favor of leaving. Other members of the UK residing in Scotland tipped the scales in favor of staying in the Union. 

[Basil B]

8 hours ago, Mosha said:

Didn't Blair have the border at the N. Sea altered, in case independence happened?

Sent from my iris 505 using Tapatalk
 

immaterial... the bubble has burst.  

[nontabury]

8 minutes ago, kamahele said:

I don't have a horse in this race, but I had wished the UK could have negotiated changes to the EU agreement rather than opt out and I would like to see Scotland stay in the EU. That being said, a mention  that most Scots voted in favor of staying in the UK is misleading . A majority of the population of Scotland did vote to stay in the union but native born Scots voted heavily in favor of leaving. Other members of the UK residing in Scotland tipped the scales in favor of staying in the Union. 

Were you outside the polling stations,asking where they had been born?

If you had,you would know that citizens of the Irish republic, plus citizens from all EU countries,resident in Scotland were also entittled to vote. What I do not know,

is if they did.

 

 

[Basil B]

The Cranky woman wants the referendum before Brexit so Scotland can remain in the EU...

 

Can she not understand Scotland is in the EU as part of Great Britain so if Scotland were to became independent it would not be part of the EU so could not remain in the EU, Scotland would have to apply to join the EU.

 

What she is trying to do is cause trouble while Britain tries to negotiate the best exit deal, I consider what she is doing to be treasonous. 

[Basil B]

12 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

 

 

The Gretna to Glasgow Express...

 

Will be a climb down after travelling all the way from Brussels on a modern high speed train that stops at Gretna.

[Grouse]

26 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Were you outside the polling stations,asking where they had been born?

If you had,you would know that citizens of the Irish republic, plus citizens from all EU countries,resident in Scotland were also entittled to vote. What I do not know,

is if they did.

 

 

We have had more than enough lies from Brexiteers. Clean this up now. Reported.

[Grouse]

http://www.robertburns.org/works/344.shtml

 

Well put

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, Keesters said:

If she got all of the UK to vote rather than just Scotland she would definitely win. England and Wales can't wait to get rid of the winging Scots.

That's how a divorce should work but I believe we're better together.

 

What isn't negotiable is that UK voted to leave the EU and that they will be coming too.

[mommysboy]

There was a referendum 2 years ago and the Scots did not vote to leave UK. It was billed as a once and for all, which conventionally means once per generation.  Opinion polls don't even suggest a change, and indeed the majority of people don't want another referendum.  My conclusion is that it is an absurd request.

[mommysboy]

19 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

The Scots have clearly demonstrated that they want to remain in the EU. Brexit appears to be inevitable so no amount of waiting to see just how much of a disaster the future of a united GB&NI outside the EU is, will make up for that. Surely it is better to take all the pain in one go?

 

 

The Scots voted to remain in the UK. That was the issue in the referendum. There were no provisos.

 

 

[RuamRudy]

 
The Scots voted to remain in the UK. That was the issue in the referendum. There were no provisos.
 
 

One of the threats /bribes /inducements of the Bitter Together campaign was that the only way Scotland could remain in the EU was to remain in the UK.

Many of us saw that you be as much nonsense as the other London lies, but sadly many fell for it, a bit like the government backed lie of EU money being diverted to the NHS - a despicably cynical attempt to pervert the democratic process.

A referendum won on a basket of lies is nothing more than a travesty of democracy.

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, kamahele said:

I don't have a horse in this race, but I had wished the UK could have negotiated changes to the EU agreement rather than opt out and I would like to see Scotland stay in the EU. That being said, a mention  that most Scots voted in favor of staying in the UK is misleading . A majority of the population of Scotland did vote to stay in the union but native born Scots voted heavily in favor of leaving. Other members of the UK residing in Scotland tipped the scales in favor of staying in the Union. 

Can you back this up?

[mommysboy]

Just now, RuamRudy said:

One of the threats /bribes /inducements of the Bitter Together campaign was that the only way Scotland could remain in the EU was to remain in the UK.

Many of us saw that you be as much nonsense as the other London lies, but sadly many fell for it, a bit like the government backed lie of EU money being diverted to the NHS - a despicably cynical attempt to pervert the democratic process.

A referendum won on a basket of lies is nothing more than a travesty of democracy.

 

Politics changes. Nobody ever thought Brexit was likely. Scotland voted to remain in the UK, end of...

 

Scotland entered in to the Brexit referendum freely, knowing that it was a UK wide vote and that it is binding.

 

The independence vote is just that.  It is not a vote to join the EU.  There is no logic in attaching the issue of EU membership to the independence cause, because if The Nationalists were to get their way Scotland would not be a member of EU anyway, even if the UK subsequently decided to remain.

 

 

 

 

[Grouse]

To continue this rather weak metaphor:

 

The Scots voted in 2014 to stay wed to England following the shot gun wedding 300 years ago. Now, England has set fire to the marital home and refuses any discussion about putting the fire out.

 

Clearly this is a case of abuse and is certainly grounds for divorce.

 

I can assure contributors that weakened finances does not always prevent a divorce. 

 

It's all about happiness and contentment you see....

 

Following divorce, it's often a good move to stay close to family and friends particularly if they are of a similar mindset  ?

[mommysboy]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

To continue this rather weak metaphor:

 

The Scots voted in 2014 to stay wed to England following the shot gun wedding 300 years ago. Now, England has set fire to the marital home and refuses any discussion about putting the fire out.

 

Clearly this is a case of abuse and is certainly grounds for divorce.

 

I can assure contributors that weakened finances does not always prevent a divorce. 

 

It's all about happiness and contentment you see....

You did say it was a weak metaphor!

 

The marital home isn't on fire, is it?  Although unfortunately the wife's finances are in a bit of a state as usual.

 

 

[whatawonderfulday]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

To continue this rather weak metaphor:

 

The Scots voted in 2014 to stay wed to England following the shot gun wedding 300 years ago. Now, England has set fire to the marital home and refuses any discussion about putting the fire out.

 

Clearly this is a case of abuse and is certainly grounds for divorce.

 

I can assure contributors that weakened finances does not always prevent a divorce. 

 

It's all about happiness and contentment you see....

Pity the Scots could never really shake of the shame of Culloden and have had chips on their shoulders ever since

[Grouse]

14 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

You did say it was a weak metaphor!

 

The marital home isn't on fire, is it?  Although unfortunately the wife's finances are in a bit of a state as usual.

 

 

Oh it's burning now alright and the numpties are asleep upstairs! Goodnight everybody!?

[Grouse]

31 minutes ago, whatawonderfulday said:

Pity the Scots could never really shake of the shame of Culloden and have had chips on their shoulders ever since

You think shame lies with the Scots over Culloden? I think you should read up on Stinking Billy. 

 

There was was a terrific docudrama we were shown at school. I'll see if it's online...

 

This was actually a rebellion against Scotland being sold off to England. Watch this and get back to me about "shame"

 

more on stinking billy

http://www.historyhome.co.uk/people/cumber.htm

 

[RuamRudy]

Pity the Scots could never really shake of the shame of Culloden and have had chips on their shoulders ever since

After Thatcher, Scottish history was taken off the school curriculum and replaced with 1066 and all that. The old yins were the main supporters of the union in 2014 so your inference doesn't make sense.

[whatawonderfulday]

36 minutes ago, Grouse said:

You think shame lies with the Scots over Culloden? I think you should read up on Stinking Billy. 

 

There was was a terrific docudrama we were shown at school. I'll see if it's online...

 

This was actually a rebellion against Scotland being sold off to England. Watch this and get back to me about "shame"

 

more on stinking billy

http://www.historyhome.co.uk/people/cumber.htm

 

It actually was the Scottish Jacobite rebellion against England. but still guess some Scots are still trying to distort historical facts. The shame was some escaped.

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, whatawonderfulday said:

It actually was the Scottish Jacobite rebellion against England. but still guess some Scots are still trying to distort historical facts. The shame was some escaped.

Do read up on it. Watch the documentary / drama. Then get back to me.....

 

I used to live at Culloden when I was first married. My first ever telephone number was Culloden Moor 500!

 

Some escaped? Like at the Warsaw uprising? What a moronic comment. You should be ashamed.