Scotland's Sturgeon says: I can win an independence vote

[snoop1130]

Scotland's Sturgeon says: I can win an independence vote

 

Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon poses for a photograph at SSE's new Pitlochry Dam Visitor Centre, in Pitlochry, Scotland, Britain, February 6, 2017. REUTERS/Russell Cheyne/Files

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said on Monday that she believed she could win a second independence vote which she has demanded to be held before the United Kingdom leaves the European Union.

 

When asked if she thought she could win such a vote, she said she believed she could.

 

Up to now, most polls show support for independence in Scotland has barely shifted from around 45 percent since 2014, and that most Scots do not want another vote on secession.

 

(Reporting by Elisabeth O'Leary, writing by Guy Faulconbridge; editing by Alistair Smout and Costas Pitas)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-3-13

[ddavidovsky]

Someone tell this woman that she can't keep calling for referendums every few years.

If she says the goalposts have changed because of Brexit, well, Brexit hasn't happened yet. They should wait several years at least to gauge the effects of Brexit, then she might be able to say things have changed enough.

[mfd101]

Brexit, Scottish independence, Quebec, Corsica, Brittany, Catalania and on and on - if you hold enough referenda on any particular subject, sooner or later you end up actually falling over the cliff - to everyone's astonishment and some dismay.

 

That's democracy for you.

[whatawonderfulday]

Scotland should hold a  referendum every 4 years  just like the world cup. They may be able to qualify for a referendum, as they can't for the world cup.

 

 

[RuamRudy]

Someone tell this woman that she can't keep calling for referendums every few years.
If she says the goalposts have changed because of Brexit, well, Brexit hasn't happened yet. They should wait several years at least to gauge the effects of Brexit, then she might be able to say things have changed enough.

The Scots have clearly demonstrated that they want to remain in the EU. Brexit appears to be inevitable so no amount of waiting to see just how much of a disaster the future of a united GB&NI outside the EU is, will make up for that. Surely it is better to take all the pain in one go?

[NanLaew]

7 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

The Scots have clearly demonstrated that they want to remain in the EU. Brexit appears to be inevitable so no amount of waiting to see just how much of a disaster the future of a united GB&NI outside the EU is, will make up for that. Surely it is better to take all the pain in one go?

Or at least wait until oil prices improve?

[ddavidovsky]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

The Scots have clearly demonstrated that they want to remain in the EU. Brexit appears to be inevitable so no amount of waiting to see just how much of a disaster the future of a united GB&NI outside the EU is, will make up for that. Surely it is better to take all the pain in one go?

They should be legally obliged to wait because nobody knows what will happen as a result of Brexit and it may conceivably turn out to be to Scotland's advantage.

 

What if they vote now for independence, then Brexit proves highly beneficial to the UK? Then Scotland will want back in again. It's ridiculous. Just wait.

[rockingrobin]

3 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

They should be legally obliged to wait because nobody knows what will happen as a result of Brexit and it may conceivably turn out to be to Scotland's advantage.

 

What if they vote now for independence, then Brexit proves highly beneficial to the UK? Then Scotland will want back in again. It's ridiculous. Just wait.

To wait would risk EU membership

[RuamRudy]

They should be legally obliged to wait because nobody knows what will happen as a result of Brexit and it may conceivably turn out to be to Scotland's advantage.
 
What if they vote now for independence, then Brexit proves highly beneficial to the UK? Then Scotland will want back in again. It's ridiculous. Just wait.

I am not sure if obliged is the right term, but they are unable to hold a referendum without TM giving prior approval. The timing is also up to the PM. She may approve the referendum but delay it until after Brexit.

[whatawonderfulday]

12 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

To wait would risk EU membership

It is the UK that has EU membership, not Scotland. Shortly the UK will be advising the EU that it intends to leave. Assuming Scotland is permitted another independence vote , and the vote goes the way SNP would like, then Scotland shall have to apply for membership of the EU.  Assuming the remaining 27 countries of the EU approve Scotland joining, then this process will still take some years until Scotland has totally devolved from the UK. In that interim period they will neither have the support of England nor that of the EU.

 

You can forget England buying expensive offshore oil, its cheaper from elsewhere. Same goes for gas which England can buy from overseas via the interconnector.

 

If Scotland votes for independence it will be a bit like turkeys voting for Xmas.  Mind you Nicola Sturgeon does show similar traits IMO

[cheapskatesam]

I love how the £ starts to rise after sturgeon announced the referendum.. the markets know Scotland is economically dead weight... Everyone knows this except Scot nationalists of courses :D

[whatawonderfulday]

2 minutes ago, cheapskatesam said:

I love how the £ starts to rise after sturgeon announced the referendum.. the markets know Scotland is economically dead weight... Everyone knows this except Scot nationalists of courses :D

Absolutely true. I read many years ago that from the taxes received via national insurance throughout the UK, Scotland, approx. 9% of the total population at that time, received 25% of the entire UK's welfare benefit schemes.

[vogie]

[darksidedog]

We built a wall to keep them out. They have kept coming south ever since.

They harp on about Bannockburn,  (1314), which is probably the last time they won anything, including soccer, so let them vote and leave us in peace for the first time in 700 years.

[Prbkk]

Does this mean they will take off air the BBC presenters who speak Scottish?....one of them I only catch 2 words in 5 . 

[rockingrobin]

33 minutes ago, whatawonderfulday said:

It is the UK that has EU membership, not Scotland. Shortly the UK will be advising the EU that it intends to leave. Assuming Scotland is permitted another independence vote , and the vote goes the way SNP would like, then Scotland shall have to apply for membership of the EU.  Assuming the remaining 27 countries of the EU approve Scotland joining, then this process will still take some years until Scotland has totally devolved from the UK. In that interim period they will neither have the support of England nor that of the EU.

 

You can forget England buying expensive offshore oil, its cheaper from elsewhere. Same goes for gas which England can buy from overseas via the interconnector.

 

If Scotland votes for independence it will be a bit like turkeys voting for Xmas.  Mind you Nicola Sturgeon does show similar traits IMO

Slightly incorrect, under the EU  fundamental treaties, the EU is obliged to start negotiations with the aim  of accession. It is very probable and almost a certainty that transitional agreement will be  put in place to maintain their membership 

[oxo1947]

There not the brightest people (financially wise) the Scots are they ?

I mean to go bankrupt by putting over 50% of all your countries money into trying to build a way to move goods from the east coast of S America to the West coast..... then forgetting just that little item of asking the people that actually owned the land .."is that OK' then ? .......No its not !! ........oh <deleted> -OK then we seem to have lost all our money ...best ask the English if they can bail us out.

 

When will Scots grow up and accept that they are not always victims, and that their own people messed up and bankrupted their nation. With no option other than to approach their counterparts in England to ask for help. Did they expect all the money for nothing, with no guarantees? The Union did come from the disaster of the Darien Scheme. Hubris does usually have a price!
I bet many Scots people are not even aware of the Darien Scheme. It is high time they learned of it; high time many stopped repeating myths and blaming the English for all their troubles. I won't be holding my breath though........................

.

 

An attempt, called the Darien scheme, sought to establish a new Scottish colony in the New World at the Isthmus of Panama. This scheme is often blamed for the virtual collapse of Scotland’s economy, and is cited as a key factor in the 1707 Treaty of Union between England and Scotland. ..............https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme

 

 

[whatawonderfulday]

7 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

Slightly incorrect, under the EU  fundamental treaties, the EU is obliged to start negotiations with the aim  of accession. It is very probable and almost a certainty that transitional agreement will be  put in place to maintain their membership 

Really then you must know more then this professor,

 

Professor Neil Walker, an expert on constitutional theory and holder of the regius chair of public law at the University of Edinburgh, believes it is extremely unlikely a third way could be found to allow Scotland to accomodate both its place in the UK and the EU.“If you put the question in black and white - can Scotland remain a member of the EU, at the same time as being part of the UK, while the rest of the UK leaves the EU? The answer has to be plainly no,” he said.“The member state is the UK. If the UK is leaving, and Scotland remains part of the UK, it’s improbable, bordering on inconceivable, that Scotland can remain in the Europpean Union.”

Read more at: http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/could-scotland-legally-remain-a-member-of-the-eu-post-brexit-1-4191495

 

[whatawonderfulday]

6 minutes ago, oxo1947 said:

There not the brightest people (financially wise) the Scots are they ?

I mean to go bankrupt by putting over 50% of all your countries money into trying to build a way to move goods from the east coast of S America to the West coast..... then forgetting just that little item of asking the people that actually owned the land .."is that OK' then ? .......No its not !! ........oh F@#k -OK then we seem to have lost all our money ...best ask the English if they can bail us out.

 

When will Scots grow up and accept that they are not always victims, and that their own people messed up and bankrupted their nation. With no option other than to approach their counterparts in England to ask for help. Did they expect all the money for nothing, with no guarantees? The Union did come from the disaster of the Darien Scheme. Hubris does usually have a price!
I bet many Scots people are not even aware of the Darien Scheme. It is high time they learned of it; high time many stopped repeating myths and blaming the English for all their troubles. I won't be holding my breath though........................

.

 

An attempt, called the Darien scheme, sought to establish a new Scottish colony in the New World at the Isthmus of Panama. This scheme is often blamed for the virtual collapse of Scotland’s economy, and is cited as a key factor in the 1707 Treaty of Union between England and Scotland. ..............https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme

 

 

But to give credit where credit is due the number of discoveries or inventions directly attributable to a Scottish person is exceptionally high given the size of the nation.  

[strikingsunset]

I am really insulted by the way we English are always having to " cow tow" to the constant whinging and whining of the scots - for the first time here I say it- don't let the door hit your arse on the way out and don't try and come back...


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[scubascuba3]

If she wins, isn't best out of 3 only fair?

[siam2007]

2 minutes ago, strikingsunset said:

I am really insulted by the way we English are always having to " cow tow" to the constant whinging and whining of the scots - for the first time here I say it- don't let the door hit your arse on the way out and don't try and come back...


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

 

Exactly what the mainland Europeans told the English a few months ago  ;-)

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, strikingsunset said:

I am really insulted by the way we English are always having to " cow tow" to the constant whinging and whining of the scots - for the first time here I say it- don't let the door hit your arse on the way out and don't try and come back...


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

In all fairness, it's not all the Scots, just the nationlistic SNP.

[oxo1947]

12 minutes ago, whatawonderfulday said:

But to give credit where credit is due the number of discoveries or inventions directly attributable to a Scottish person is exceptionally high given the size of the nation

Yes that is true.....I don't know just where on the list the " GLASGOW KISS " fits in, I discovered it while walking into a pub in Easter house in the 60s, when Scotland where playing England on the TV--I obviously cheered for the wrong side,

Yes they have invented a lot re the size of their population, & deserve the credit for that..............

[rockingrobin]

15 minutes ago, whatawonderfulday said:

Really then you must know more then this professor,

 

Professor Neil Walker, an expert on constitutional theory and holder of the regius chair of public law at the University of Edinburgh, believes it is extremely unlikely a third way could be found to allow Scotland to accomodate both its place in the UK and the EU.“If you put the question in black and white - can Scotland remain a member of the EU, at the same time as being part of the UK, while the rest of the UK leaves the EU? The answer has to be plainly no,” he said.“The member state is the UK. If the UK is leaving, and Scotland remains part of the UK, it’s improbable, bordering on inconceivable, that Scotland can remain in the Europpean Union.”

Read more at: http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/could-scotland-legally-remain-a-member-of-the-eu-post-brexit-1-4191495

 

Look at what he said

The member state is the UK. If the UK is leaving, and Scotland remains part of the UK, it’s improbable, bordering on inconceivable, that Scotland can remain in the Europpean Union.”

 

Scotland remaining part of UK. 

The referendum is to become independent prior to UKs departure of EU

[RuamRudy]

We built a wall to keep them out. They have kept coming south ever since.
They harp on about Bannockburn,  (1314), which is probably the last time they won anything, including soccer, so let them vote and leave us in peace for the first time in 700 years.

I am not so sure that you or yours built it, unless you have a bit of Roman in you.

[RuamRudy]

It is the UK that has EU membership, not Scotland. Shortly the UK will be advising the EU that it intends to leave. Assuming Scotland is permitted another independence vote , and the vote goes the way SNP would like, then Scotland shall have to apply for membership of the EU.  Assuming the remaining 27 countries of the EU approve Scotland joining, then this process will still take some years until Scotland has totally devolved from the UK. In that interim period they will neither have the support of England nor that of the EU.
 
You can forget England buying expensive offshore oil, its cheaper from elsewhere. Same goes for gas which England can buy from overseas via the interconnector.
 
If Scotland votes for independence it will be a bit like turkeys voting for Xmas.  Mind you Nicola Sturgeon does show similar traits IMO

You really don't understand how the oil markets work, do you?

[whatawonderfulday]

1 minute ago, rockingrobin said:

Look at what he said

The member state is the UK. If the UK is leaving, and Scotland remains part of the UK, it’s improbable, bordering on inconceivable, that Scotland can remain in the Europpean Union.”

 

Scotland remaining part of UK. 

The referendum is to become independent prior to UKs departure of EU

Yes and I would wager it is impossible for Scotland to be totally devolved by March 2020 due to legal and constitutional hurdles,  after a "yes"  vote late 2018/early 2019 for that to become absolute.

[whatawonderfulday]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

You really don't understand how the oil markets work, do you?

 

Clearly you don't by your response.

[RuamRudy]

Clearly you don't by your response.

Well I have worked for one of the largest integrated oil and gas companies in the world for close to 30 years in various roles in various countries so I am going to go out on a limb here and say that I know more than the OP, and if you think that his comments made sense, then you too.