British PM May to reject Scottish referendum demand - Times newspaper

[7by7]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Also, look into National Infrastructure Projects - the ones that we all pay for, but are not considered when the regional spending is doled out. Scots, Welsh and NI tax payers, for example, paid a proportinate share of the cost of the London olympics, but that expenditure wasn't reflected in their regional grants. Similarly, HS2 is a NIP - we all pay for it, but the benefit is solely England.

 

Mundell: Scotland set for £500m from infrastructure spending

Quote

Scottish Secretary David Mundell has said the Scottish government will get an extra £500m as a result of UK government plans to boost infrastructure spending.

Chancellor George Osborne has pledged an extra £5bn for transport, energy and housing projects.

Scotland will get a share through the Barnett formula but ministers at Holyrood can decide how it is spent.

 10% of the money for 8% of the population. Seems like Scotland gets more than it's fair share!

[7by7]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

How is this bashing England? My point is not an attack on any country, and not even an attack on the people who say that we are traitors - I merely point out that they see us as traitors because we want to leave the UK. My point where I used the highlighted and italicised you was directed at the OP. If you feel that this is an attack on your country and its people then I cannot help you, but I think you do need help.

 

You (as in 7by7) seem to be obsessed with finding any and every opportunity to criticise me in the most pathetic ways possible. I really do not have the ability to fathom you out - I read most of your post with utter bewilderment as I try to understand just what it is that drives you to behave in this manner. If you lived next door to me I would be seriously worried because you seem unhinged. Please put my profile on your ignore list because I find nothing constructive to any of the interactions we have had.

 How is it bashing England? If you cannot see that then you are either self delusional or believe the rest of us are morons!

 

The rest of your post is your typical bluster when you have been corrected, criticised and shown to be self contradictory.

 

I am not going to put you on my ignore list, and I am not going to stop responding when you post rubbish.

 

[nontabury]

4 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

But you still have not elaborated - a betrayal of whom? The UK is an agreement, an ancient piece of paper - nothing more. Are you saying that we are betraying a piece of paper written 300 years ago?

 

 

We also invested into the exchequer that doled out the money to pay for these projects, and we will assume our share of the debt for them when we depart.

While we are on infrastructure, you may want to look into how regional development budgets are devised among the regions. Also, look into National Infrastructure Projects - the ones that we all pay for, but are not considered when the regional spending is doled out. Scots, Welsh and NI tax payers, for example, paid a proportinate share of the cost of the London olympics, but that expenditure wasn't reflected in their regional grants. Similarly, HS2 is a NIP - we all pay for it, but the benefit is solely England.

So what. Yorkshire an area with a similar population to Scotland,with since the collapse of oil, a larger GDP. Also contributed to the Olympics in London,but do we go crying about it. London is the capital of the U.K. Exactly the same as when York was the capital of the ancient Kingdom of Northumbria,with Edinburgh just a small outpost. As I've pointed  out to you on numerous occasions. Over the last 100yrs, there have been a disproportionate % of P.M's who were Scots,did we protest,even when they were found to be incompetent.The answer of course is "NO". The only critism that has been regularly heard, relates to the Fact that due to the Barnett Formula, more is spent on Scotland than any other region, and the fact that Scotland is over representated in Westminster,even while voting on issues soly relating to England.

 

 

 

 

[citybiker]

The UK Government debt is now touted as 1.7 trillion pounds. I think Scotland's cut is around 10% of that.  It remains UK debt.  Scotland could walk away of course, but it would be an absolute pariah on the world's market, and I can't imagine UK doing anything other than exacting extreme revenge.

Correct, its a scary £1.7 trillion & counting.

So have the SNP worked out Scotland's independence leave percentage bear in mind their proposed referendum is likely to be around 2020/21 at the earliest.

So 10% of an increased figure upon leaving to be applied to their already restructured fiscal deficit.


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[citybiker]

Deleted.

[nontabury]

52 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

How is this bashing England? My point is not an attack on any country, and not even an attack on the people who say that we are traitors - I merely point out that they see us as traitors because we want to leave the UK. My point where I used the highlighted and italicised you was directed at the OP. If you feel that this is an attack on your country and its people then I cannot help you, but I think you do need help.

 

You (as in 7by7) seem to be obsessed with finding any and every opportunity to criticise me in the most pathetic ways possible. I really do not have the ability to fathom you out - I read most of your post with utter bewilderment as I try to understand just what it is that drives you to behave in this manner. If you lived next door to me I would be seriously worried because you seem unhinged. Please put my profile on your ignore list because I find nothing constructive to any of the interactions we have had.

 

  I think that is too far over the top. I have cross swords with 7by7 on many threads,while rarely agreeing with his point of view. Yet I have found him to be one of the fairest contributors to T.V. I cannot ever remember him given a biggoted opinion,unlike some I could mention. Always backing up his arguement with facts. 

 I suggest you make an apology.

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

So what. Yorkshire an area with a similar population to Scotland,with since the collapse of oil, a larger GDP. Also contributed to the Olympics in London,but do we go crying about it. London is the capital of the U.K. Exactly the same as when York was the capital of the ancient Kingdom of Northumbria,with Edinburgh just a small outpost. As I've pointed  out to you on numerous occasions. Over the last 100yrs, there have been a disproportionate % of P.M's who were Scots,did we protest,even when they were found to be incompetent.The answer of course is "NO". The only critism that has been regularly heard, relates to the Fact that due to the Barnett Formula, more is spent on Scotland than any other region, and the fact that Scotland is over representated in Westminster,even while voting on issues soly relating to England.

My knowledge of geography is pretty poor but I think Yorkshire is in the '19,000 to 20,999' band (GVA, not GDP)?  This map is from 2015 - the latest can be found here. Unfortunately it doesn't have a nice map of the country, but table 1 shows a simliar story - Scottish GVA exceeds that of NE England, NW England, Yorkshire & Humber, East Midlands, West Midlands, SW England, Wales or Northern Ireland. And that is with slump in oil.

 

The SNP has campaigned for the scrapping of the Barnett formula but that was rejected by Westminster.

The Tory Secretary of State for Scotland said, "An amendment that kills off the Barnett formula and ends the sharing of resources across the UK is about as far away from sensible as one can get."

 

As for the number of MPs, that is decided by Westminster but I have agreed here previously that we should see no more than 53 or 54 Scots MPs in London.

[evadgib]

Try watching this without laughing:

 

https://www.channel4.com/news/scottish-referendum-snps-eilidh-whiteford

[7by7]

55 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Try watching this without laughing:

 

https://www.channel4.com/news/scottish-referendum-snps-eilidh-whiteford

 It seems that Ms Whiteford has taken this seriously!

 

 

Or this

 Or both?

Edited March 19, 2017 by 7by7

[mommysboy]

Broadly speaking, I don't think anyone can say Scotland hasn't been treated fairly, and equally they have earned it.

 

But obviously they yearn for more, possibly more than just mere independence.  Certainly there's no way Scotland has a say on big matters: Brexit proves that.  At root, we have a socialist government sitting with a rapaciously Tory one.

 

Brexit does in fact illustrate that the hard right, a minority, seems to hold sway in just about anything.  It's a ridiculous situation.

 

 

[citybiker]

Broadly speaking, I don't think anyone can say Scotland hasn't been treated fairly, and equally they have earned it.

 

But obviously they yearn for more, possibly more than just mere independence.  Certainly there's no way Scotland has a say on big matters: Brexit proves that.  At root, we have a socialist government sitting with a rapaciously Tory one.

 

Brexit does in fact illustrate that the hard right, a minority, seems to hold sway in just about anything.  It's a ridiculous situation.

 

 

 

These spiritous claims about hard Brexit is simply over hyped media hysteria combined with some anti Brexit campaigners. I don't recall at any stage TM announcing any hard Brexit (excuse if wrong) but simply a red, white and blue Brexit & a Brexit fit the UK.

 

Nothing wrong with an individual country wanting ambition, it should be encouraged however political point scoring and simply attempting to interfere or deliberately damage the Union, especially as a current member is quite frankly ridiculous.

 

If Sturgeon is still being advised, pressured and pushed by Salmon then she only has herself to blame, due to her recent announcement the forthcoming 4th May local elections will be very interesting.

 

I'm aware your stating hard Brexit directly.

 

 

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[7by7]

47 minutes ago, citybiker said:

These spiritous claims about hard Brexit is simply over hyped media hysteria combined with some anti Brexit campaigners. I don't recall at any stage TM announcing any hard Brexit (excuse if wrong) but simply a red, white and blue Brexit & a Brexit fit the UK.

 

Negotiations haven't even started yet, so of course May has not yet announced any deal; soft, hard or somewhere in between.

 

But: Brexit: Theresa May tells EU that 'no deal is better than a bad deal for Britain'

 

If no deal is not a hard Brexit; what is it?

[citybiker]

I do like Jacob Reece-Mogg's BBC Question Time summary of the Scottish independence issue.

Sturgeon & the SNP want to surrender powers from Holyrood to Brussels of the EU.

So they'll be nicknamed the BNP, Brussels National Party....


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[sidgy]

I never got to see Question Time last night, but I understand that the crowd was very much a moderated version of the man in my video yesterday.
English racist abuse of non-Brits is already at alarming levels. Now, sadly, English racist abuse of fellow Brits seems to be acceptable also. Can I look forward to some delightful memes from you decrying this seemingly acceptable form of English racism?

Hmm,so you didn't actually watch it but understand the crowd was made up of English racists. Anything else you haven't seen that you would like to condemn the audience of being racist.



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[RuamRudy]

Hmm,so you didn't actually watch it but understand the crowd was made up of English racists. Anything else you haven't seen that you would like to condemn the audience of being racist.



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With regards the Question Time audience, I took my information from a source that I am satisfied is reliable and credible. If you dispute it, let me know and I will seek it on YouTube to verify for myself, but as I am confident in the source, I am confident I will merely verify their words.

I have also seen the video of the English gentleman calling us all sorts of unpleasant names. If I recall correctly, the strongest admonishment on the TVF thread was that he was 'a bit over the top', but that I should think carefully about just what it was that we Scots have done to upset him so.

[RuamRudy]

7 hours ago, citybiker said:

I do like Jacob Reece-Mogg's BBC Question Time summary of the Scottish independence issue.

Sturgeon & the SNP want to surrender powers from Holyrood to Brussels of the EU.

So they'll be nicknamed the BNP, Brussels National Party....


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That makes for a good soundbite, but it doesn't make any sense at all.

 

With the UK in the EU now, a certain amount of responsibility has been handed from Westminster to Holyrood. If it is acceptable for Westminster to dictate those powers at present, why would they be handed over in the future to Brussels? It is quite the opposite, an independent Scotland will assume the powers currently reserved by Westminster.

[redwinecheese]

I just can't express my deep happiness seeing the Brits separate, go Scotland vote for independence.

[transam]

3 minutes ago, redwinecheese said:

I just can't express my deep happiness seeing the Brits separate, go Scotland vote for independence.

Why...?

[sidgy]

With regards the Question Time audience, I took my information from a source that I am satisfied is reliable and credible. If you dispute it, let me know and I will seek it on YouTube to verify for myself, but as I am confident in the source, I am confident I will merely verify their words.

I have also seen the video of the English gentleman calling us all sorts of unpleasant names. If I recall correctly, the strongest admonishment on the TVF thread was that he was 'a bit over the top', but that I should think carefully about just what it was that we Scots have done to upset him so.

So you call an entire audience racist based on hearsay. Ok.



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[transam]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

With regards the Question Time audience, I took my information from a source that I am satisfied is reliable and credible. If you dispute it, let me know and I will seek it on YouTube to verify for myself, but as I am confident in the source, I am confident I will merely verify their words.

I have also seen the video of the English gentleman calling us all sorts of unpleasant names. If I recall correctly, the strongest admonishment on the TVF thread was that he was 'a bit over the top', but that I should think carefully about just what it was that we Scots have done to upset him so.

I have had a Scots stalker with a Scots sidekick.......nut jobs.....liars....I thought Scots were above that shit....I was wrong....BUT hey, I prevailed..

[RuamRudy]

So you call an entire audience racist based on hearsay. Ok.



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Entire audience? Of course not, just like I don't think that all English people are bigots based on the man in my video or the comments of some posters on here.

What I am saying is that it is becoming increasingly acceptable to stereotype Scots in the most insulting ways possible, with little fear of retribution.

All these TVF threads, for example, are littered with descriptions of whinging, scrounging, ungrateful, even stupid Scots, yet literally nobody suggests that these are unfair or uncalled for statements.

But similarly, I do not consider all English to be represented by TVF posters.

[RuamRudy]

I have had a Scots stalker with a Scots sidekick.......nut jobs.....liars....I thought Scots were above that shit....I was wrong....BUT hey, I prevailed..

Now you have lost me.

[baboon]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Entire audience? Of course not, just like I don't think that all English people are bigots based on the man in my video or the comments of some posters on here.

What I am saying is that it is becoming increasingly acceptable to stereotype Scots in the most insulting ways possible, with little fear of retribution.

All these TVF threads, for example, are littered with descriptions of whinging, scrounging, ungrateful, even stupid Scots, yet literally nobody suggests that these are unfair or uncalled for statements.

But similarly, I do not consider all English to be represented by TVF posters.

 

"All these TVF threads, for example, are littered with descriptions of whinging, scrounging, ungrateful, even stupid Scots, yet literally nobody suggests that these are unfair or uncalled for statements."

 

Fair comment. I think it it is out of line, for one. Not only that but it plays straight into the hands of the nationalists, quite understandably. 
 

[transam]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Now you have lost me.

That's OK......Many know about my problem...Scot nutters....Thankfully REAL Scots folk voted to remain in a union that has done well....

[evadgib]

3 hours ago, redwinecheese said:

I just can't express my deep happiness seeing the Brits separate, go Scotland vote for independence.

If the rest were asked they'd have gone at the first attempt...

[RuamRudy]

That's OK......Many know about my problem...Scot nutters....Thankfully REAL Scots folk voted to remain in a union that has done well....

We have nutters of all flavours - I don't think being a dick is particular to any one country or any one political persuasion.

[transam]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

We have nutters of all flavours - I don't think being a dick is particular to any one country or any one political persuasion.
 

 

How true in LOS...Face to face tells all....Done that...........

Edited March 20, 2017 by transam

[mommysboy]

36 minutes ago, baboon said:

"All these TVF threads, for example, are littered with descriptions of whinging, scrounging, ungrateful, even stupid Scots, yet literally nobody suggests that these are unfair or uncalled for statements."

 

Fair comment. I think it it is out of line, for one. Not only that but it plays straight into the hands of the nationalists, quite understandably. 
 

Yes, about as clever as booing the opposing teams anthem at the start of a football match.

[sidgy]

Entire audience? Of course not, just like I don't think that all English people are bigots based on the man in my video or the comments of some posters on here.

What I am saying is that it is becoming increasingly acceptable to stereotype Scots in the most insulting ways possible, with little fear of retribution.

All these TVF threads, for example, are littered with descriptions of whinging, scrounging, ungrateful, even stupid Scots, yet literally nobody suggests that these are unfair or uncalled for statements.

But similarly, I do not consider all English to be represented by TVF posters.

Go back to your post 164.
Sorry,you didn't say audience..you called them the "crowd". Much more fitting to suit your agenda. I'm still waiting for your evidence btw,you said you would find and post it. It is posted on the other thread,and you liked it and referenced it so it shouldn't be too difficult for you to find. But I agree,I find it most racist and bigoted of that man to dare ask the SNP MP what currency they are going to use....and some of that awful crowd to laugh at her inability to formulate words never mind a coherent policy


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[mommysboy]

13 hours ago, citybiker said:

 

These spiritous claims about hard Brexit is simply over hyped media hysteria combined with some anti Brexit campaigners. I don't recall at any stage TM announcing any hard Brexit (excuse if wrong) but simply a red, white and blue Brexit & a Brexit fit the UK.

 

Nothing wrong with an individual country wanting ambition, it should be encouraged however political point scoring and simply attempting to interfere or deliberately damage the Union, especially as a current member is quite frankly ridiculous.

 

If Sturgeon is still being advised, pressured and pushed by Salmon then she only has herself to blame, due to her recent announcement the forthcoming 4th May local elections will be very interesting.

 

I'm aware your stating hard Brexit directly.

 

 

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Quite true in most respects.

 

Perhaps we will end up with an acceptable deal.

 

I am quite sure however that a majority of Brexiteers wanted to remain in single market, and we can take it as read that most Remainers wanted this too. 

 

There is a very real possibility that we will end up with a Brexit that only a small minority (the hard right) wanted.

 

 I use the past tense, and it would be interesting to know what voters now feel about a hard Brexit.  It's odd that with opinion polls on just about every other aspect short of sock colour preferences that there is no such simple poll!  I can't explain this.

 

My sneaking feeling is that actually the leave vote in England would be higher, and possibly lower in Scotland.  But that an overwhelming majority would favour some form of associate status.