Foreign Radical Feminists In Thailand

[Yohan]

WELCOME FOREIGN RADICAL FEMINISTS IN THAILAND

I really like to see, what readers of this forum, men and women, Thais and non-Thais are thinking about farang emancipated power-ladies.

We all know, how badly foreign men living in Thailand are treating the local girls, who in return in despair and helplessness are calling on you as a cheap Charlie.

There is hope! Brave emancipated power-ladies, sometimes called the radical feminists or femi-nazis, will invade Thailand and will eliminate this unbearable situation and erase this terrible Southeast Asian patriarchial society.

Basic radical feminist guidelines for your information:

In fact, all heterosexual sex seems tantamount to rape.

Intercourse with men as we know them is increasingly impossible.

Unambiguous conventional heterosexual behavior is the worst betrayal of our common humanity (Dworkin 1974, p.184).

I certainly do not want the sex industry driven underground - I want it eradicated. Big difference. The closest we've come to an ideal model is the Swedish model whereby the women prostitutes are completely decriminalised and only the men, the buyers of sex, are criminalised. (MsNina, radical feminist, posting on Thaivisa, Wed 2004-04-28, 20:04:11)

Thank you for your vote and your comments,

Johann

[sbk]

George??? Maybe I will volunteer. Seems the heat is getting to some previously reasonably normal posters.

[Georgie-Porgie]

George??? Maybe I will volunteer. Seems the heat is getting to some previously reasonably normal posters.

[Yohan]

Hi, MsNina,

As we posted our opinions on feminists in Thailand into various threads (like bar-girls, living in Bangkok and so on), I made a new thread, where I will post from now on any related opinion about this subject.

Please post also here feminist-related stuff, it is not good to disperse our arguments into various other threads. It is better, to have all and everything together and not to mix it up with other Thailand related informations....OK?

I am happy to read in your last reply, that my postings are not any longer for you preposterous and hilarious, but you find them now to be peculiar and disturbing. Great, you make me happy!

Thank you,

Johann

[Basher]

George??? Maybe I will volunteer. Seems the heat is getting to some previously reasonably normal posters.

You should, then the sun will shine every day, it will never rain, there will be and end to world violence and all the bad guys will go away....

Bash

[mbkudu]

We shall be caged and sperm will only be extracted manualy for propagation; male children shall be caged as well. Sterile males will be exterminated. Any sex or physical contact between male and female is strictly prohibited and will be punished severely.

[Basher]

We shall be caged and sperm will only be extracted manualy for propagation; male children shall be caged as well. Sterile males will be exterminated. Any sex or physical contact between male and female is strictly prohibited and will be punished severely.

Ok where do i sign up?

Bash

[the gentleman]

Hi, MsNina,

As we posted our opinions on feminists in Thailand into various threads (like bar-girls, living in Bangkok and so on), I made a new thread, where I will post from now on any related opinion about this subject.

Please post also here feminist-related stuff, it is not good to disperse our arguments into various other threads. It is better, to have all and everything together and not to mix it up with other Thailand related informations....OK?

I am happy to read in your last reply, that my postings are not any longer for you preposterous and hilarious, but you find them now to be peculiar and disturbing. Great, you make me happy!

Thank you,

Johann

How much does she weigh Yohan?

[Boon Mee]

I suspect the majority of men who come to Thailand do so with the thought of escaping these radical feminazies. A pox on all of them.

[Jeepz]

I have nothing against capable women, even those with forceful personalities. I do own that I find Feminism rather repugnant. If it was simply a "girls network" of reliance and support, then not much to complain about, since we all need friends along the way.

But feminism has developed a gender facist streak that may appeal to some women and perhaps to a few masochistic guys as well. MsNina's comment about Sweden's non-criminal view of prostitutes while arresting their patrons is an example of that.

The feminist view of women as victims, blameless for their actions, compelled by a male dominated society, is the same sort of thinking that would exempt criminals due to the circumstances of their childhood, lack of opportunity, and so on. It ignores the fact that every individual makes choices and that they must then live with the result.

As I said in the opening paragraph, I think that capable women, including ones with a strong sense of identity and purpose are just fine. I grew up around some and came to appreciate them as unique individuals. But that is a far cry from the garbage plate feminists serve up.

Jeepz

[GuestHouse]

For those of you who have a problem with women deciding how they want to live their own lives, it gets worse, I personaly know a Thai woman who works in the UK and who distributes information to Thai brides who have arrived in the UK on how to get their rights to the matrimonial property..

[Snark]

I am waiting for someone to say 'joke!'.

Welcome to the LOS. Land of slime, that is. Where it is culturally accepted men have second wives or visit the 'girls'. Where butterfly has an entirely different meaning centuries old.

In turn, the average Thai woman thinks Thai men are, as a general rule, scumballs. Thus the reason they jump at the chance for a REAL relationship with a farang.

Unknown to most farangs, there is a very real possibility there are a larger number of lesbians per capita in Thailand than anywhere else in the world partly as a result of this.

Liberated women in Thailand? The land where women run the entire show, via Claud DeBalls?

Not ridiculing liberation here at all. I demand it. My standing rule: If she isn't up in my face on issues I made a mistake marrying her. No vegetables in my little weed patch, please.

[mbkudu]

Thai women in general are very clever. they know how to use a 'feminine touch'

to get what they want out of men. They don't use mass protest marches, bullhorns,

motorcycle parades or legislation to go forward in life. They use good looks, charm,

a sense of humor, intelligence (cunning) and wicked bedroom antics to get what they need.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Thai women in general are very clever. they know how to use a 'feminine touch'

to get what they want out of men. They don't use mass protest marches, bullhorns,

motorcycle parades or legislation to go forward in life. They use good looks, charm,

a sense of humor, intelligence (cunning) and wicked bedroom antics to get what they need.

Exactly. Gets 'em a lot further too.

[Amyji]

I am a foreign woman newly married to a wonderful Thai man. I have always disassociated myself from "feminists" when I lived in the USA because of their man hating antics, as most of middle American women have too. I just finished reading a book called "Who Stole Feminism" by Christina Hoff Sommers. Her well researched work shows us how these radical feminists' philosophies are weak and corrosive to society, yet many have a strong hold in the academy and have literally gone about to change the school curriculum from kindergarten through university. SCARY STUFF!! It is a small minority of extremely vocal, well organized hate mongers who have a strong hold on educators and administrators who blanch at the risk of being called a sexist (or racist or homophobe, for that matter) so when the radicals scream 'jump' they ask 'how high' without criticism of the agenda.

Most women, myself included, are what Hoff Sommers refer to as 'equity feminists', the good old fashioned feminist who believes that women simply want the same laws applied to them as men and have the same civic rights with regard to work and voting. No special laws for us, please, just equal protection. The radical feminists have come to distain anything and everything 'patriarchial' and remotely masculine. Equity feminists disdain this radical mindset; the radicals do not have the grassroots support they need, they do not represent anyone but themselves.

In Thailand I know that many of the foriegn men are escaping a homeland where they feel ostracized. They glare at farang women expats, or completely ignore us, lumping us in with the small group of radical feminists they have escaped from in their home countries. What is sad is that I am stereotyped this way. I am more traditional than many western women; I love to dress nicely, I don't leave the house without makeup, I keep my figure slim and I am NOT hairy! I am a girlie girl and I love being feminine. I also yearn to be the best wife I can be for my wonderful husband... believe me he wants to stay at home with me at nights, if you know what I mean...

I've been wanting to express this ever since I saw the first postings of this slant, so I am glad to finally get a chance to say that there may be more women on your side, guys. We don't all hate you, quite the opposite!!!!

[chonabot]

Nice pic....drool!

[sbk]

Well said, amyji, but then if they are going to lump all expat women (and all farang women for that matter) into the hairy, aggressive, radical feminist category then perhaps it is fair to lump all expat men into the fat, lazy, sexist, bigoted category?

I, personally, find it quite amusing that the men complaining about feminists are the same ones complaining about their Thai wives not getting equal treatment under Thai law. It is also quite funny that any woman who disagrees with their opinions is automatically labelled 'feminazi' regardless of what they know or think about that person. Any man who disagrees is labelled a wimp, henpecked etc.

In my relationship with my husband I do many things for him, wash his clothes, get him a drink when he asks etc. I do these things because I love him and want to do them not because I think I have to. Big difference guys. In return, my husband offers me love and respect, values my opinions and treats me as an equal partner with an intelligent say in our relationship. Do I consider myself a feminist? Not particularly. Do I think that women deserve equal rights under the law and respect? Absolutely. But then, I think all human beings deserve this.

Enough of the name calling and aggressive postings on this forum lately. It is getting very tiresome. Let's all try to be reasonable adults, shall we?

[Axel]

Agreed, let's all be reasonable. Humanity is like a zoo and it takes all kinds of animals to make one.

One thing, however, I abhore. Radicals in all forms shapes and colors.

Thailand, IMHO does not need any radicals. Let them live their own lifes and if a female Thai wants to run for parliament, why not?

Look over to the Philippines. That young lady is doing a good job in a very difficult environment. She did not need to be a radical or feminist, just used her brains.

[dkstoney]

"Even though the majority of Standard users appear to believe in the desirability of equality of the sexes, by no means all who support the position agree on what it may entail or are willing to be called feminists. So widely varied are the programs proposed under the banner of feminism, so intemperate some of their champions and adversaries, that both terms have pejorated to a point where they are no longer useful in most rational discussion."

The Columbia Guide to Standard American English. Copyright © 1993 Columbia University Press.

You know, I'll quote something I agree with to avoid getting hit with the usual derogatory labels bandied about by feminists when you won't agree with them--misogynist, misogamist, misanthrope. Most men are tired of the subject and wish you all luck. Would rather have someone there to take care of us, be our maternal replacements, and all that other rubbish.

[mbkudu]

I am a foreign woman newly married to a wonderful Thai man. I have always disassociated myself from "feminists" when I lived in the USA because of their man hating antics, as most of middle American women have too. I just finished reading a book called "Who Stole Feminism" by Christina Hoff Sommers. Her well researched work shows us how these radical feminists' philosophies are weak and corrosive to society, yet many have a strong hold in the academy and have literally gone about to change the school curriculum from kindergarten through university. SCARY STUFF!!  It is a small minority of extremely vocal, well organized hate mongers who have a strong hold on educators and administrators who blanch at the risk of being called a sexist (or racist or homophobe, for that matter) so when the radicals scream 'jump' they ask 'how high' without criticism of the agenda.

Most women, myself included, are what Hoff Sommers refer to as 'equity feminists', the good old fashioned feminist who believes that women simply want the same laws applied to them as men and have the same civic rights with regard to work and voting. No special laws for us, please, just equal protection. The radical feminists have come to distain anything and everything 'patriarchial' and remotely masculine. Equity feminists disdain this radical mindset; the radicals do not have the grassroots support they need, they do not represent anyone but themselves.

In Thailand I know that many of the foriegn men are escaping a homeland where they feel ostracized. They glare at farang women expats, or  completely ignore us, lumping us in with the small group of radical feminists they have escaped from in their home countries. What is sad is that I am stereotyped this way. I am more traditional than many western women; I love to dress nicely, I don't leave the house without makeup, I keep my figure slim and I am NOT hairy! I am a girlie girl and I love being feminine. I also yearn to be the best wife I can be for my wonderful husband... believe me he wants to stay at home with me at nights, if you know what I mean... 

I've been wanting to express this ever since I saw the first postings of this slant, so I am glad to finally get a chance to say that there may be more women on your side, guys. We don't all hate you, quite the opposite!!!!

Amyji, I think your submission here has been the most sensible and inteligent yet.

Lumping anybody together is always wrong. Who would want to be lumped anyway.

I think an independent thinking woman is a great thing. My wife is a very smart, independant thinking woman (I am not boasting here) and I heed her advice constantly. The women I have trouble relating to are the ones who dislike men just for the sake of disliking men. Maybe they have had bad experiences with men and have therefore lost all respect for them. They are the main lumpers. Erco is also a lumper. I also feel that the fact that you have a solid relationship with your Thai husband discredits lumpers who say Thai men make poor husbands. My father-in law is a good man who has worked his whole life in a rice field to support his wife and 8 children, never smokes or drinks.

[Nat]

I love to dress nicely, I don't leave the house without makeup, I keep my figure slim and I am NOT hairy! I am a girlie girl and I love being feminine.

Have to admit the western women I know here have the above philosophy – they are very feminine (also in loving relationships). At uni I did a semester of feminist theory and sure it was interesting, but personally not my cup of tea. I’d rather be in a beauty salon sipping champagne and being pampered (or pampering the one I love) than going on a woman’s lib march (sorry). However I do respect another person’s opinions and will not insult them even if I do not agree with their views.

Coincidentally a radical feminist friend in the west sent me this link: Which Western Feminist are you? It’s a good laugh and guys can also do it. Mine was Frida Kahlo

Which Western feminist icon are you?

[translator]

I love to dress nicely, I don't leave the house without makeup, I keep my figure slim and I am NOT hairy! I am a girlie girl and I love being feminine. I also yearn to be the best wife I can be for my wonderful husband... believe me he wants to stay at home with me at nights, if you know what I mean...

Radical Fem friends on way....

I bet they get off the plane with short hair, no shoes on and a backpack three times bigger than them !

Many lady boys love to dress nicely, wear makeup and have hairy chests all the way to there lumpies (some say...). their still girlie girlie and love to be a feminine.

Who is going to right there wrongs for them ?

[Pink Mist]

dont forget the hairy armpits, german greer you have a lot to answer for, but personally, I loved the bra burning

[Jeepz]

Amyji~

Equity feminist? Interesting term. I thought it was simply being a person. I have zero problem with equal pay for equal work. Most of my worklife has been spent in exactly those conditions. Your choice if you had 5 kids or No kids, got married once or every other year or not at all. Your pay check was based on the job you did and had nothing to do with your gender.

As a heterosexual, I find it more visually interesting when the opposite sex is slim and not too fuzzy (I do hate the sight of long leg hair in hose). But I don't use those criteria for judging them as people, just as what I find pleasant to look at.

I shy away from long pointless conversations with fundamentalist christians about creationism, from UFO devotees about alien abductions, and angry females about the misogyny of Western/Eastern/*Whatever* culture.

I admire couples of any age/sex/ethnic combo that take care of each, provide comfort and support, acknowledge and accept the other's weaknesses and strengths, and basically make life work better together. It sounds like that is just what you are doing.

Jeepz

[the gentleman]

I am a foreign woman newly married to a wonderful Thai man. I have always disassociated myself from "feminists" when I lived in the USA because of their man hating antics, as most of middle American women have too. I just finished reading a book called "Who Stole Feminism" by Christina Hoff Sommers. Her well researched work shows us how these radical feminists' philosophies are weak and corrosive to society, yet many have a strong hold in the academy and have literally gone about to change the school curriculum from kindergarten through university. SCARY STUFF!! It is a small minority of extremely vocal, well organized hate mongers who have a strong hold on educators and administrators who blanch at the risk of being called a sexist (or racist or homophobe, for that matter) so when the radicals scream 'jump' they ask 'how high' without criticism of the agenda.

Most women, myself included, are what Hoff Sommers refer to as 'equity feminists', the good old fashioned feminist who believes that women simply want the same laws applied to them as men and have the same civic rights with regard to work and voting. No special laws for us, please, just equal protection. The radical feminists have come to distain anything and everything 'patriarchial' and remotely masculine. Equity feminists disdain this radical mindset; the radicals do not have the grassroots support they need, they do not represent anyone but themselves.

In Thailand I know that many of the foriegn men are escaping a homeland where they feel ostracized. They glare at farang women expats, or completely ignore us, lumping us in with the small group of radical feminists they have escaped from in their home countries. What is sad is that I am stereotyped this way. I am more traditional than many western women; I love to dress nicely, I don't leave the house without makeup, I keep my figure slim and I am NOT hairy! I am a girlie girl and I love being feminine. I also yearn to be the best wife I can be for my wonderful husband... believe me he wants to stay at home with me at nights, if you know what I mean...

I've been wanting to express this ever since I saw the first postings of this slant, so I am glad to finally get a chance to say that there may be more women on your side, guys. We don't all hate you, quite the opposite!!!!

What a refreshing look at life, thanks!

You sound like a great lady and I think most of us would agree that an even relationship is all us men are after - do you have friends like yourself?

[Spee]

Thank you for your vote and your comments,

I could care less if they go to LOS or not. They are an extreme minority (albeit a vocal one) and anyone who believes in the cause is bound to be labeled as having an extremist viewpoint. If that is how someone wants to be labeled then so be it.

(It has worked out real well for the militant islamic wacko's so far .... just kidding to make a point, of course. All they've done is paint an extremists' view into many peoples' minds, for entire cultural populations that have nothing to do with the extremist movement.)

There are two ways to make changes, evolution and revolution. Not saying there's anything wrong with either, but in this debate, I prefer evolution over revolution.

My point is I could care less about wacko extremist feminists with one exception, which is if or when one or more of them start trying to force their radical views and opinions "down my throat." At that point I begin to rapidly develop into a state of very little vocal and physical patience.

[Spee]

Thank you for your vote and your comments,

I could care less if they go to LOS or not. They are an extreme minority (albeit a vocal one) and anyone who believes in the cause is bound to be labeled as having an extremist viewpoint. If that is how someone wants to be labeled then so be it.

(It has worked out real well for the militant islamic wacko's so far .... just kidding to make a point, of course. All they've done is paint an extremists' view into many peoples' minds, for entire cultural populations that have nothing to do with the extremist movement.)

There are two ways to make changes, evolution and revolution. Not saying there's anything wrong with either, but in this debate, I prefer evolution over revolution.

My point is I could care less about wacko extremist feminists with one exception, which is if or when one or more of them start trying to force their radical views and opinions "down my throat." At that point I begin to rapidly develop into a state of very little vocal and physical patience.

Forgot to add ...

Extremist wacko feminists may well be targeting Thailand ... though from what I can gather and have learned about Thailand and the Thai way .... they would be targeted as well, that is to persona non gratia status before they got too far.

If they really wanted to make a big change, why don't they first try going to all of the arabic countries where women are by and large treated far worse? That would be a huge dose of reality.

[Boon Mee]

Right. Let 'em head off to those middle east and African countries that still practice circumcision on women. We're talking about the complete removal of the clitoris here.

Too politically hot for them I suspect as Muslims are already in deep sh1t right now since 9/11.

[Khun Larry]

For those of you  who have a problem with women deciding how they want to live their own lives, it gets worse, I personaly know a Thai woman who works in the UK and who distributes information to Thai brides who have arrived in the UK on how to get their rights to the matrimonial property..

I believe it.

As far as sleezy unethical tactics to separate you from your hard earned nestegg I don't think radical femimists, as bad as they are, are any worse than the Thai Puying.

The Puying are probably worse in this regard. (pound for pound ofcourse )

[MsNina]

We need radical feminists everywhere.

If they really wanted to make a big change, why don't they first try going to all of the arabic countries where women are by and large treated far worse?

Spee, by saying that Arabic women are treated worse , you are saying that women in Thailand are treated badly. And there have already been huge feminist campaigns around female genital surgery, which have resulted in FGS being outlawed in a number of countries, Egypt being one example.

Amyji, who are these radical feminists controlling the education agenda?? They certainly don't control it here in Australia. And honestly, radical feminists do not control the academy in the US either. That's kind of inherent in being radical - you are automatically on the margins (though of course I find it sad that it is radical for women to have all their body hair, to call for an end to violence against women, to exercise autonomy etc.).

Equity feminist= liberal feminist. You want to be equal to men. Why be equal to men - and everything that entails, such as militarisation, state deregulation and liberal markets, colonialism/post-colonialism etc - when we could be liberated from all that?

And darling, you don't need make-up!! It's OK to be yourself! Love yourself as you are!

Jeepz, what's the relevance of individual choice when one suffers structural violence such as gender, race and class-based discrimination? When choices are extremely limited, it is more illuminating to look at structures in order to understand an individual's life than it is to look at their 'choices'.