Baby Seats

[manjara]

Does this poster earn a prize for possibly the stupidest question ever on TV? Goldfish sums it up well - he is an adult and the choice is his. Most of us have have done reckless things as adults, mine include transferring between moving vehicles at about 50 mph, doing a ton plus on a Norton in just T-shirt and jeans, doing wheelies with the intention of damaging the car in front and cycling down high Alpine passes at over 65 mph.

Children do not get such choices and as a parent it is your duty to protect them. There has been a recent law passed in the UK that states that children under a certain age/weight must be in a child restraint. http://www.childcarseats.org.uk/law/fromseptember06.htm

If your child or any child dies as a result of your negligence, how would you feel?

There was also a report that said the law was bordering on ridiculous government interference and that the Brits are now a risk-averse nation.

There are at least a million things in this world that can kill or injure you or your children, life is full of risks. Personally I do(did) put my kids in child seats in the car, but I would not demand or even expect that everyone would do the same.

In the UK, as soon as there is some accident involving loss of life, the public immediately cries out for regulation to prevent it happening again. Words like 'negligence', 'reckless' are used with abandon, where 20 years ago almost everyone could have been categorised that way, on the same measure. The 'risk-averse' noose tightens ever more.

It's very politically incorrect to take a fatalistic approach to safety and accidents, but let's face it, people are going to do stupid things and it's impossible to rule out every possible cause of injury.

You pay your money and you take your chances...

I prefer to spend my life NOT expecting the worst to happen.

[jbowman1993]

The best baby seats for the very young are the rear-facing ones, take a look at the consumer guides, they vary tremendously on how effective they are, some really flash ones have glaring attachment faults.

When it comes to "adults"....Im not even sure that's the right word - The “up me, I’m over 21” attitude doesn’t really cut it for me....

We all know that driving in Thailand is quite risky and requires a pretty high level of skill and concentration and we are all aware of the vagaries of failing to attend to this...

However if you don’t take the maximum precautions provided for you - seatbelts, helmets etc., what happens...out of no fault of your own you end up in an accident.

No seat belt...you are thrown around like an egg in a box, receive injuries that may or may not be fatal.

If not you get a hospital bill...this might be paid for by your insurance...in other words US! Our premiums as well as yours pay for your hospital treatment, so it directly affects others...

Your family are put through the hassle of anxiety, financing your treatment; you take up a hospital bead that you might have avoided if you’d worn a seatbelt. Ambulances are called, roads are blocked, people are late for work etc etc...If you have an accident of course you affect others.

And if you die..... or are permanently disabled, what about your family, dependants and loved ones, if you ask me it’s showing little respect for them. They have to pick up the pieces, they have to survive without the number one breadwinner and if you’re insured the same thing applies again the money comes from ALL our premiums...all this hassle because you think it’s “up to me” if I wear a seatbelt or helmet or whatever.

Governments don’t introduce these laws because they want to “nanny” people it’s for sound financial reasons, they cut down on hospital bills and all the related social and health costs that ensue.

The idea that driving slower will help is also misleading when it comes to injuries; imagine if some walked passed you with a lump hammer over their shoulder and caught you a passing blow....it could fracture your skull....and that’s at walking pace, when a car stops suddenly in an accident , your body wants to continue at the same speed, without a seat belt it does, that means you will hit the dash, steering wheel windscreen etc at 40 kmph...a lot more than walking pace....that can cause easily enough damage to be fatal, the same applies to a side on collision from another motorist.

And one more thought....rear seat passengers....ever thought what it's like to head-butt a driver at 40 kmph?, or what a drivers' seat/headrest tastes like? just don't wear a seatbelt - but not in my car - OK?

Agree 100% Great Post Wilko!

[PeaceBlondie]

We don't expect the governments of Thailand to pass child safety laws, or to enforce them often. It's an individual thing. It's a parent's responsibility. I will never forget the face and the wailings of the Thai mother when her only child died in a wreck without a helmet. The bike was stopped, and he just fell to the ground. Babies probably die more easily when they are thrown about like a ragdoll.

[wilko]

Does this poster earn a prize for possibly the stupidest question ever on TV? Goldfish sums it up well - he is an adult and the choice is his. Most of us have have done reckless things as adults, mine include transferring between moving vehicles at about 50 mph, doing a ton plus on a Norton in just T-shirt and jeans, doing wheelies with the intention of damaging the car in front and cycling down high Alpine passes at over 65 mph.

Children do not get such choices and as a parent it is your duty to protect them. There has been a recent law passed in the UK that states that children under a certain age/weight must be in a child restraint. http://www.childcarseats.org.uk/law/fromseptember06.htm

If your child or any child dies as a result of your negligence, how would you feel?

There was also a report that said the law was bordering on ridiculous government interference and that the Brits are now a risk-averse nation.

There are at least a million things in this world that can kill or injure you or your children, life is full of risks. Personally I do(did) put my kids in child seats in the car, but I would not demand or even expect that everyone would do the same.

In the UK, as soon as there is some accident involving loss of life, the public immediately cries out for regulation to prevent it happening again. Words like 'negligence', 'reckless' are used with abandon, where 20 years ago almost everyone could have been categorised that way, on the same measure. The 'risk-averse' noose tightens ever more.

It's very politically incorrect to take a fatalistic approach to safety and accidents, but let's face it, people are going to do stupid things and it's impossible to rule out every possible cause of injury.

You pay your money and you take your chances...

I prefer to spend my life NOT expecting the worst to happen.

A nape of the neck and clichéd response.

Any time you hear the expression "PC" spat out it is from someone who really doesn’t have a clue what it means - and no I'm not going to define it for you.

If someone is negligent, it's a perfectly simple word - they should be held responsible for their negligence - 20 years ago was exactly what it says - 20 years ago - history - we live and learn from our mistakes yet some people seem to want to repeat them over and over again....this is not just your personal world, what you do affects others and they have every right to expect you to consider the ramifications of your actions......

Edited December 20, 2006 by wilko

[Jared]

or make the baby seat loose

Sorry but I think that is very bad advice. The child seat is loose, gets hit by the airbag then what will happen to the child?

Duhh, I didnt say to make the baby seat loose what would be the point of that. The OP asked why he needs to switch off the passenger airbags and i told him that if the airbag goes off it will either crush or make the car seat loose, which would result in the babyseat flying around the car. Maybe I could of restructured my sentance better but anyone with half a brain would know what i ment.

[gpt]

or make the baby seat loose

Sorry but I think that is very bad advice. The child seat is loose, gets hit by the airbag then what will happen to the child?

Duhh, I didnt say to make the baby seat loose what would be the point of that. The OP asked why he needs to switch off the passenger airbags and i told him that if the airbag goes off it will either crush or make the car seat loose, which would result in the babyseat flying around the car. Maybe I could of restructured my sentance better but anyone with half a brain would know what i ment.

That is what it sounded like, I'll put it down to bad grammar and I apologise but did you really have to use that half a brain insult?

[PeaceBlondie]

Let's keep the personal attacks out of here, okay? Some of us have shared serious opinions about parent's responsibilities, but there's no need for name calling.

[Jared]

My apologies, this is a very serious thread and discussion.

[bkkexplorer]

Parents who have the knowledge and means of protecting their children should do so. Never take their lives in your hands by thinking you're a safe driver and assuming you won't be in an accident. For those who need reminding, an accident is an unfortunate event which occurs unexpectedly and unintentionally. No parent would want harm to their kids, carseats are meant to protect them. Ever heard of the term better safe than sorry. That's my take on it, and it doesn't end at children, mine or the sister's/brother's/cousin's baby. Even an adult passenger sitting in my vehicle is reminded to wear a seat belt...

[Nawtilus]

We don't expect the governments of Thailand to pass child safety laws, or to enforce them often. It's an individual thing. It's a parent's responsibility. I will never forget the face and the wailings of the Thai mother when her only child died in a wreck without a helmet. The bike was stopped, and he just fell to the ground. Babies probably die more easily when they are thrown about like a ragdoll.

Why dont we expect the government to provide such a law ??

How is it an individual thing when you get into a taxi and there are no seatbelts in it ?

[gpt]

How is it an individual thing when you get into a taxi and there are no seatbelts in it ?

The choice is yours, take it, wait for one that has belts fitted or get a different type of transport. If you are travelling alone, sit in the front passenger seat and belt up.

[Nawtilus]

We are talking about kids here, how many taxis have you seen with seat belts. I use them daily almost and maybe one in 50 will have a usable belt.

So, the choice is yours arguement just does not work I am afraid. It is an imperfect world, here more so than some.

[PeaceBlondie]

We don't expect the governments of Thailand to pass child safety laws, or to enforce them often. It's an individual thing. It's a parent's responsibility. I will never forget the face and the wailings of the Thai mother when her only child died in a wreck without a helmet. The bike was stopped, and he just fell to the ground. Babies probably die more easily when they are thrown about like a ragdoll.

Why dont we expect the government to provide such a law ??

How is it an individual thing when you get into a taxi and there are no seatbelts in it ?

My point about the Thai govt. is that they don't consider themselves to be our nanny, as some western govt.'s do. Taxidrivers won't take care of you, either. You'd be lucky to get a $11 helmet from a motorcycle taxi. We chose to live in a country that doesn't protect its citizens from hazards that our home countries protect us from. We moved ourselves (and in some cases, made babies here) where it's risky. We should not expect to get rescued or protected. But we should protect our own as much as possible. Is it only the original poster here, who hesitates about buying a car seat? Is it only because he doesn't want to spend the cash?

[Nawtilus]

Thats ridiculous...the governement provides and tries to enforce the law for seatbelts in the front...why not the rear ?? Why not at least for taxis...where travelling in them you do not have the 'individual choice' to wear it or not as it is not even there.

Yes we choose to live here, yes we have kids here and yes we are faced with far more dangers here because of it than possibly in your home country. But using your arguement, then they should not have ever introduced front seat belt regulations at all, also drink driving and many more.

It cannot be an individual thing or a parents responsibilty if you do not have the choice to wear a seat belt or not in the first place simply because it does not exist in a taxi.

Granted I do have the choice to flag down 50 taxis till I find one, or take a bus for 3 hours, or just stay home....but then we also live in a real world and have to get <deleted> done. I cringe everyday my kids are in the back of a taxi. I have gotten out of taxis for not driving safe and I constantly threaten my wife if she ever lets a taxi drive recklessly and speed etc without saying something and getting out if it continues.

[gpt]

Thats ridiculous...the governement provides and tries to enforce the law for seatbelts in the front...why not the rear ?? Why not at least for taxis...where travelling in them you do not have the 'individual choice' to wear it or not as it is not even there.

Yes we choose to live here, yes we have kids here and yes we are faced with far more dangers here because of it than possibly in your home country. But using your arguement, then they should not have ever introduced front seat belt regulations at all, also drink driving and many more.

UK, compulsory fitting of front seatbelts in cars 1967 but not compulsory wearing until 1983

The compulsory fitting of rear seatbelts in cars 1987 but not compulsory wearing until 1989 (child) 1991 (all)

Check your countries history of when they had to be fitted and when they had to be worn, you may find similar gaps. Back in our own country, we have the opportunity to write to our MPs to get laws passed but here we do not. I assume your wife is Thai, then she can write to her MP. I admit that this will not solve your immediate problem and any law passed may take years to come into force.

Edited December 21, 2006 by gpt

[Neeranam]

Is it only the original poster here, who hesitates about buying a car seat? Is it only because he doesn't want to spend the cash?

It's because I don't have the cash. Please, no responds of, "if you can't afford a seat, you shouldn't have a baby".

When I have the cash, I'll buy one straight away, of course.

I have certain priorities and decisions to make - should I pay for a good hospital for my newborn, or buy a carseat - what's the most important?

Should I never take the baby in the car? When many of my friends and relatives are taking their babies on bikes, I would rather take them in a car driven by myself, even if it didn't have a safety seat, than on a tuk tuk. I took my daughter from Bamrungrad up Sukhumvit - no seat - am I a negligent parent?

Because I've been in Thailand most of my adult life, maybe I think differently than those who haven't - hence the OP. I don't know or really care about govt. legislation, but just see what is around me. Maybe Thai people are uneducated in these matters, I guess I am. Maybe they have some kind of understanding that Westerners don't - some kind of belief or faith.

[Nawtilus]

You know what, this faith and if its gunna happen its gunna happen and so on....what do you think a thai mum thinks when her kid is killed in an accident on a bike or in a car that if the same accidnet had happened in a country with a regualtion to enforce, or at least provide the ability to have the 'individual choice' and the child was unharmed...what do you think she would be thinking ??

What if I was travelling in a car with my child in a car seat and I had an accident with a thai family with a child in their car but jumping around free. My child lived, theirs died, how would they feel then ??

[gpt]

Most taxis in Thailand, as you have pointed out, do not have seat belts.

There is no compulsory fitting of rear belts in Thailand

There is no Thai law stating that, if fitted, seat belts must be worn

You can write as many 'what if' scenarios but will these change the three lines above? No.

[wilko]

You know, I can only recall one time ever going in a taxi in Thailand without a seat belt. I booked a "limo" to Don Muang and a 60s Merc turned up .... it was 4 or 5 in the morning and nothing I could do about it until I returned to Pattaya and gave the agent a bollocking. I felt really uncomfortable all the way to the airport.

There are times when you have to do what you have to do, but I think people can be really inept when it comes to assessing risk and its ramifications.They are not just risking themselves it affects others.

thailand is still a developing country and as such, does not have the same luxury of taking precautions that we have. The alternative to riding 4 to a bike is not getting there at all. When they have more money they can afford safer roads and vehicles...it all costs money....we as westerners however, come here as realively wealthy people and with the benefit of a a greater education in risk limitation. For me the concept of when in Rome simply doesn't apply....I clunk-click, wear a skidlid, even down to the corner shop....I've seen people dead on the ground apparently with not a mark on them....just a tiny blow to the head and that's it.

Edited December 22, 2006 by wilko

[PeaceBlondie]

Is it only the original poster here, who hesitates about buying a car seat? Is it only because he doesn't want to spend the cash?

It's because I don't have the cash. Please, no responds of, "if you can't afford a seat, you shouldn't have a baby".

When I have the cash, I'll buy one straight away, of course.

I have certain priorities and decisions to make - should I pay for a good hospital for my newborn, or buy a carseat - what's the most important?

Should I never take the baby in the car? When many of my friends and relatives are taking their babies on bikes, I would rather take them in a car driven by myself, even if it didn't have a safety seat, than on a tuk tuk. I took my daughter from Bamrungrad up Sukhumvit - no seat - am I a negligent parent?

Because I've been in Thailand most of my adult life, maybe I think differently than those who haven't - hence the OP. I don't know or really care about govt. legislation, but just see what is around me. Maybe Thai people are uneducated in these matters, I guess I am. Maybe they have some kind of understanding that Westerners don't - some kind of belief or faith.

I apologize, Neeranam, if I've been too harsh on you. I'm sure you care about your baby, and will do everything you can. Surely somebody at ThaiVisa might have a car seat they can lend you. We used to lend out our infant crib in between our babies. It's still in the family, after 3 generations. Good luck.

[helicoptor]

This is a no-brainer. Ask yourself, "How Important is the safety of your child?" You may have faith in your OWN driving ability but seeing as we are in Thailand with everyone speeding around with a 'Devil may care' attitude, you cannot guarantee someone will not crash into you.

We arrived with our own child seat from the UK. No compromise. The option of buying a car seat in Thailand was out of the question as we had to travel from the airport to Chonburi so a child seat was essential. Also we have a seat we know has a EU kite mark for safety standards. The baby seats we have seen here have not got any kind of label on them to determine whether they have undergone stringent safety checks. To further prove the need for a seat we have only been here a month and we have had a collision already (only a minor one - thank goodness).

We see Thai people on their scooters every day, 3 sometimes 4 of them, some wear helmets, some don't. Every time its the youngest member at the front (akin to a 'infant airbag') the mind boggles. But that's their choice.

Never in a million years would I compromise the safety of my family, you cannot predict what MAY happen and it's pointless worrying as such, but I have peace of mind to a degree that I am at least MINIMISING the risk of serious injury (or worse).

[indothai]

Is it only the original poster here, who hesitates about buying a car seat? Is it only because he doesn't want to spend the cash?

It's because I don't have the cash. Please, no responds of, "if you can't afford a seat, you shouldn't have a baby".

When I have the cash, I'll buy one straight away, of course.

I have certain priorities and decisions to make - should I pay for a good hospital for my newborn, or buy a carseat - what's the most important?

Should I never take the baby in the car? When many of my friends and relatives are taking their babies on bikes, I would rather take them in a car driven by myself, even if it didn't have a safety seat, than on a tuk tuk. I took my daughter from Bamrungrad up Sukhumvit - no seat - am I a negligent parent?

Because I've been in Thailand most of my adult life, maybe I think differently than those who haven't - hence the OP. I don't know or really care about govt. legislation, but just see what is around me. Maybe Thai people are uneducated in these matters, I guess I am. Maybe they have some kind of understanding that Westerners don't - some kind of belief or faith.

I apologize, Neeranam, if I've been too harsh on you. I'm sure you care about your baby, and will do everything you can. Surely somebody at ThaiVisa might have a car seat they can lend you. We used to lend out our infant crib in between our babies. It's still in the family, after 3 generations. Good luck.

Alright, those with GOOD baby seats just laying around collecting dust... donate or sell them cheap. Can someone in this forum post details on where to donate. Better yet, is there a "auto group", "swap meet", for users in the forum?

All this advice is useless if nothing is done about it.

Happy New Year !!! Stay Safe.

[JimmyGreaves]

Ok raising this one as I cannot find a decent baby seat here.

Any recommendations, where to buy?

[torrenova]

Bangkok, Singapore, etc.

Emporium, Central, Mothercare, Robinsons etc.

Edited December 9, 2007 by torrenova

[bino]

Emporium, Central, Mothercare, Robinsons etc.

Agreed- I saw them in Robinsons when I was in there last Monday. So- it stands to reason that they would have them in Central stores too. Another place would be "The Mall" department stores (Ngamwongwan, BangKapi). I recently saw a Thai couple in the parking garage at The Mall Bangkapi- the wife was hugely pregnant- pulling a car seat out of the box and putting it in their car.

[JimmyGreaves]

Just found some in the mall in Hua Hin, however they are running at between 28,000 - 32,000 Baht. Is this taking the piss or are they on the same import duties as BMW cars?

Not being funny but group 1 seats can be found for about 7000 baht in the UK. OK don't mind paying more but 3 times the price seems a bit of a rip off.

I'm off to Bangkok in a couple of weeks, am I looking at the same price there?

Cheers

[torrenova]

Maxi Cosi baby seats should run about Bt8000. Total systems with leave in the car bases and pushchairs taking the carry cot can run to Bt60,000+

If possible, get a leave the base in the car system, so much easier. However, you may want to wait for 9 months or so and get a system which will last for a few years rather than changing all the time. Do your homework.

Edited December 10, 2007 by torrenova

[JimmyGreaves]

Maxi Cosi baby seats should run about Bt8000. Total systems with leave in the car bases and pushchairs taking the carry cot can run to Bt60,000+

If possible, get a leave the base in the car system, so much easier. However, you may want to wait for 9 months or so and get a system which will last for a few years rather than changing all the time. Do your homework.

Trying to do my homework, but it's difficult when your out in the sticks and have to work through UK websites to understand whats best and the standards involved, then swithch back to Thailand mode to see whats available.

If the cosi models are here at 8,000 Baht then that's fine. My daughter is 1 year so am looking for 1-4 year old here in LOS.

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/...ategoryrn_76828

Prefer this

http://www.argos.co.uk/ProductDisplayTRK01...tNumber=0983581 as it's classed as group 1.

Thanks

[thoongfoned]

hi,

yeah gotta say that im 100% for the child seat but after looking it is hard to find a decent seat that is within cost range. yes i know what is the range?? but like people have said 25-35 thousand is crazy, for what standard of seat?

only seen them in robinson and the wife thinks im crazy to even look at them. (little one hardly ever in car) but for me we must buy! anyone got any info where they sell a good seat? (im around udon thani)

cheers.

[Petesear]

Is this baby seat for a car or a motorcycle?

For the car - already got one for the motorcycle, although I've said I don't ever want it being used again. I'd rather use a car with no baby seat than that.

Why must you disengage the air bag?

Where can I get a good cheap baby seat? I'll be going to Bangkok next week.

Anyone selling one?

PM me and I can let you have a 'new born' car seat cheap as chips..... My daughter is 4 now so she's been in a forward facing seat for a while and I never really knew what to do with the rear facing one......