Can my Thai wife apply for schengen visa in the UK

[neilscolt]

My Thai wife already has a UK family visit visa, for a visit to the UK later this month. We are just exploring the options of visiting Paris, i am aware she would need a schengen visa to do this, must she apply for this in Thailand or is it something we could arrange in the UK.

 

We did not mention this possible trip in her UK visa application, if we went to France without having mentioned it in the recent application would this effect future UK visa applications? 

[7by7]

35 minutes ago, neilscolt said:

My Thai wife already has a UK family visit visa, for a visit to the UK later this month. We are just exploring the options of visiting Paris, i am aware she would need a schengen visa to do this, must she apply for this in Thailand or is it something we could arrange in the UK

If you are a British, or other EEA national; yes. Although you may have difficulties convincing the French embassy in London! Not all embassies play by the rules.

 

If you are not an EEA national; probably not; unless you can show a need for urgent travel to France from the UK.

 

Whichever, if you have the time it may simpler to obtain one in Bangkok before you leave.

 

38 minutes ago, neilscolt said:

We did not mention this possible trip in her UK visa application, if we went to France without having mentioned it in the recent application would this effect future UK visa applications

Shouldn't do.

 

If concerned, then simply say that while in the UK you and she decided to take a trip to France.

 

[MaprangHolmes]

When I contacted the French embassy they insisted that my wife would need to have a settlement visa. Same with the Spanish.

[nickboyuk]

As far as i know She will need to apply for a schengen visa in Bangkok before she comes over. That's what my wife did  before she came over for a visit. She can apply if she has a UK visit visa.

[Andyfez]

Even if you managed to get a schengen visa, will her UK visa allow her to return to the uk after the French visit?

[7by7]

36 minutes ago, Andyfez said:

Even if you managed to get a schengen visa, will her UK visa allow her to return to the uk after the French visit?

 

Unless there is a specific reason to restrict the number of entries, all UK visit visas are multiple entry; so almost certainly yes. Provided, of course, it has not expired.

 

To check: the visa will either show the number of entries allowed or have the word 'MULT;' which means multiple entries..

[English Engineer]

She must get the Schengen visa in Bangkok. The only exception is if she has UK settlement visa.

[Donutz]

7by7 is spot on. By the book.its perfectly fine to apply from the UK if a Thai national on holiday and UK spouse wish to apply for a free visa (if one does of course meet the few requirements of directive 2004/38).

 

But as you can see from the other replies, some embassies such as apparently the French and Spanish in the UK do not wish to abide the rules due to either poor knowledge (which one could set straight if the officer is willing) or more worrying reasons. 

 

So if you do think about getting a visa, its best to do so far in advance and contact the embassy to see if you indeed get a knowledgable and friendly response or a more negative and cold one.

 

The information provided by Engineer is incorrect, violating EU law, but sadly some embassy staff does claim this to be the case.

Edited March 18, 2017 by Donutz

[Donutz]

If you do wish to have a discussion with embassy staff you may wish to forward their negative response to the EU:

JUST-CITIZENSHIP {at} ec.europa.eu

 

As far as the rules go, any properly trained embassy staff should be aware of the Schengen Code on Visa, EU directibe 2004/38. The directive takes presidence over the Schengen Visa Code. 

 

You may need to.point out the Schengen convention:

-------------

Article 134

 

The provisions of this Convention shall apply only in so far as they are compatible with Community law.

--------------

 

The directive 2004/38 is community law. Therefore you as an eligible family member can apply at any embassy in the world if one is covered by the directive. 

 

Also see:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/961389-schengen-visa/?page=2

------

 

 

[AloisAmrein]

Once a Schengen visa is given, people can travel freely in all Schengen countries, even if not member of the EU, for ex. Switzerland, as long as the visa is valid.

[7by7]

1 hour ago, AloisAmrein said:

Once a Schengen visa is given, people can travel freely in all Schengen countries, even if not member of the EU, for ex. Switzerland, as long as the visa is valid.

 Indeed; and one does not even have to first enter the Schengen area via the country which issued the visa.

 

For example, you can obtain a visa from the Dutch and then use it to go directly to Spain.

 

But be prepared for some questioning by immigration if you do this. If you fail to satisfy them about the reasons for using it to enter a different country without first entering the one which issued it then you could be refused entry.

[English Engineer]

Regardless of any EU rules the French or Spanish embassy will not issue you a visa if you apply in the UK. I know from experience this is the case unless you have a UK settlement visa. They do not work to these rules. If you want to visit Paris apply for the Schengen visa in Bangkok.

[7by7]

11 minutes ago, English Engineer said:

Regardless of any EU rules the French or Spanish embassy will not issue you a visa if you apply in the UK. I know from experience this is the case unless you have a UK settlement visa. They do not work to these rules. If you want to visit Paris apply for the Schengen visa in Bangkok.

 

I agree that it is better to organise everything beforehand; and it probably will be easier or more convenient to apply in Bangkok before starting the trip.

 

But sometimes plans change. For example a British/Thai couple may decide to spend a weekend in Paris whilst in the UK as visitors and so want to apply in the UK. The rules allow this.

 

It is true that, unfortunately, some embassies, in London, Bangkok, elsewhere do not follow the rules. But unless people complain, nothing will be done to change this.

 

Did you complain about this blatant breach of the rules by the Spanish and the French?

 

Of course, post Brexit, unless the UK signs up to the directive in a similar way to Switzerland, none of this will apply to British citizens and their non EEA national family members anymore!

[English Engineer]

Yes the alternarive is to spend your vacation discussing the rules with the visa centre. Unfortunately life is too short! 

[7by7]

51 minutes ago, English Engineer said:

Yes the alternarive is to spend your vacation discussing the rules with the visa centre. Unfortunately life is too short! 

 

Visa centre? You didn't apply directly to the embassy then?

 

But I take your point; better things to do while on holiday than spend hours arguing with an official.

 

But you could still easily have made an official complaint. Maybe still can if it wasn't that long ago.

3 hours ago, Donutz said:

forward their negative response to the EU:

JUST-CITIZENSHIP {at} ec.europa.eu

 Wouldn't have helped you at the time; but the more who complain, the more likely it is that the embassies will fall into line and follow the rules. Alternatively; if no one complains, nothing will change.

 

Moaning about it on an internet forum achieves nothing; making an official complaint just might.

[MaprangHolmes]

I do find this topic of interest as I did ask the European commission about this and this was part of the reply.

 

Regulation (EC) 810/2009 of the European Parliament and the Council establishing a Community Code on Visas (the Visa Code)1 sets out the procedures and conditions for issuing visas for transit through or intended stays in the territory ofthe Member States of no more than 90 days in any 180 days period.

 

Visa applicants neither have a free choice of where to apply for a visa nor with which Member State they apply. The applicant must apply for a visa in his or her place oflegal residence (Article 6(1) of the Visa Code).

 

The Directive on free movement (EC/2004/38) does not contain any provisions regarding consular territorial competence, so therefore the general rules ofthe Visa Code apply. A Member State may deviate from the general rule and examine an application lodged by a third country national legally present by not residing in its jurisdiction, if the applicant has provided justification for lodging the application at that consulate. The consulate concerned is competent for assessing with the justification is acceptable.

Edited March 18, 2017 by MaprangHolmes

[Donutz]

Thanks for sharing their response but I'd disagree with the answer. The directive does indeed does not specify where to apply but as it takes presidence (community law) over the Visa Code it makes little sense to think that the general provisions of the visa code apply. And if we would reason that somehow the visa code would apply to anything not explicitly in the directive it would also make little sense to allow applying on the border (be it as a last resort since its far from practical for both applicant and authorities). And it would conflict in other areas such as technically one not being illegal if covered by the directive but parachuting down in a member state without visa. 

 

Though I myself lack the capacity of pointing that out in a way a lawyer might. Though if you do browse the net you can find migration lawyers on blogs and forums pointing out that you can apply from anywhere in the world. They obviously do not provide a template letter on how to counter any silly reasoning by embassy (or in this case an EU) official. 

 

But to me, thanks to what immigration lawyers pointed out, refusing to allow a Thai tourist married to a UK national to apply in the UK clearly violated the "authorities will provide EVERY facility" paragraph of the directive. 

Edited March 18, 2017 by Donutz

[neilscolt]

Thanks everyone for the info, we will not have time to apply in Bangkok as we fly in less than ten days, will have to put France on hold this year and spend the time sight seeing in London instead. Will be a bit better organised next time.

[7by7]

8 hours ago, neilscolt said:

Thanks everyone for the info, we will not have time to apply in Bangkok as we fly in less than ten days, will have to put France on hold this year and spend the time sight seeing in London instead. Will be a bit better organised next time.

As you're going to be in London anyway, why not pop into the French embassy and ask?

 

If you ask, they may say 'Non,' but if you don't ask they wont say 'Oui!'

[Anon999]

On 18/03/2017 at 5:59 PM, English Engineer said:

She must get the Schengen visa in Bangkok. The only exception is if she has UK settlement visa.

Correct. Checked up about this a couple of years ago.

[Donutz]

1 hour ago, Anon999 said:

Correct. Checked up about this a couple of years ago.

It is actually incorrect by EU regulations. But it's indeed true that the French and some others (wrongfully!) insist on a UK residence permit. 

 

Those Thai married to a UK national  who are on holiday in the UK when they decide to hop over the channel will probably run into a brick wall with the French and Spanish embassies but more relaxed and strictly law/treaty/directive abiding embassies such as the Dutch and perhaps the Germans or others may welcome the applicant like they should. So the topic starter may chose to visit NL to see the tulips, and perhaps decide to check Paris while they are on the mainland.  

[rasg]

On 19/03/2017 at 2:57 AM, neilscolt said:

hanks everyone for the info, we will not have time to apply in Bangkok as we fly in less than ten days, will have to put France on hold this year and spend the time sight seeing in London instead.

So many places to see in the UK rather than just London although there are many places to see in London. My wife loves the history of the UK but we have traveled all over.

 

On 18/03/2017 at 11:53 AM, AloisAmrein said:

Once a Schengen visa is given, people can travel freely in all Schengen countries, even if not member of the EU, for ex. Switzerland, as long as the visa is valid.

The problem is that the first Schengen visa seems to be granted based in the dates on the tickets they want to see, to grant you the visa. I know you don't technically need to have tickets to get a visa but the Embassies do ask for them. We have just been to Iceland for 8 days and the Schengen visa lasted for exactly 8 days... What would have happened if another Icelandic volcano had gone off and grounded all the aircraft, I don't know. That was from the Danish Embassy that handles Iceland visas and surprisingly they issued the visa while we waited.

Edited March 20, 2017 by rasg

[mgb]

Technically a family member of eu citizen need only a visa for crossing the border.
The stay itself is covered from article 6 of the directive 2004/38 for the first 3 month.
Article 4 give the right to exit a eu country without visa.

[rasg]

Technically yes. The reality is your wife won’t be allowed to board an aircraft without a visa to the destination country.

[mgb]

You didn't understand my comment.
A family member cannot overstay a visa if accompanied by the eu citizen.