Pu Yai Baan Asking Questions About My Visa Situation

[Sunny Valentine]

Maestro, do you mean my landlord has to report my arrival each and every time I return to my rented condo, after staying out of town for a night? In another province, or outside Thailand?

PS: As far as I know, she reported my stay when I moved in.

Theoretically, yes. But if your arrival was reported once, some time in the past, how is even somebody spying on you to know whether you are just sleeping in a day or two with a hangover, hopefully nothing worse, or go out of town for a couple of days? Your landlady should be OK.

--

Maestro

Thanks, but as always, there are the rules and there is the enforcement.

How would anybody know? When I leave Thailand my data is registered atthe border. And when I stay a few days outside my town, I will most likely stay at a guesthouse or hotel, with my data being registered. So there are trails about my whereabouts all over the land. They probably don't care, and it might be difficult to harvest this information, but could be done.

Scary.

Sunny

[Nikkijah]

When you see a traffic cop in any country he is not spying on every driver passing him by, just looking for ones breaking the rules.

That is very comforting, but not exactly true all the time. There are a lot of cops who are just doing their (quite valued) job. Unfortunately, there are corrupt police and politicians. There are those that like using their power just because, and there are those that thrive on creating problems for other people.

It could be that the Pu-Yai-Baan is just doing his job, but personally, I'd respect his reputation as being a neer-do-well and cover your bases as much as you can.

It is a general requirement in all countries for a foreign nationla to report his presence in somne ways. Wetehr it is register with the local cops or other ways for the 'host' country to keep track of him.

I am on and off in my house in Thailand travelling all the time in Asia.

I have reported to the local cops with mthe ownwer of the land on which I have my house with the TM 30 form some photos, a residence certificate from the immigration office, copy on the tabien baan, copy of the 30 year lease contract, etc.

It took the best part of a morning with very friendly cops who were happy to get the attention of the local farang.

We walked out with a report copy duly stamped and the mobile phone of 2 of the senior cops being told to call them in case we needed anything !

Whn I renewed my 1 year extension I gave them a copy which they added to the file. I intend to do it at each extension so thya have the latest status of 'their' farang.

I see no arm at all to make sure the local authorities are aware I live in their juridiction.

In y own country I would have to register at the local municipal office anyway reporting any change on my civil status.

As far at the Pu Yai is consernedtat is a thing for the locals, I do ot speak Thai well enough for a conversation so big smiles is the way to go.

The landlord's family keeps well within the local activities 'temple, deaths, weddings, etc) where he is involved and all is well in a local village way.

I hear your anger. But we have to live in their country.

Now, when you move into the new house in the village, make a fruit basket and introduce yourself to the pooyai. Offer him English classes for free. It works wonders and you will have trust developed.

On a side note, I used to be a GM a hotel in Phuket. Everyday we had to (they still do) fill out an excel spreadsheet with name, passport and tm number of each guest. To this day, the emails come back as MAILBOX FULL. Never heard any complaints from those yahoos. They are never checked. The data for them is overwhelming.

So, just relax. Fruit baskets go a loong way and he gains face. You will, afterall, show respect to someone of a higher stature than yourself...

Good luck!

drummer, respect. I'm covering them

Krub, my landlady's family is quite well heeled in the neighbourhood, whom we get on very well with and they own most of the land, they built the village(town houses, all 40+ of them) and then sold it and are more respected than the PYB, once when asking our nanny questions about me and my visa situation he was told to go and question our landlady because we are her 'liabilty' but he shied away from this for whatever reason...face perhaps

sniperteam6, I already live here and have done for 9+ months so the introductions thing is out of the question but I see your point, although, I don't really have the time to teach anybody English and I don't really have a problem with registering my presence, I have accepted that as a requirement

As for the fruit basket thing, I'm afraid I have never been able to muster a respect for people who don't earn it, this particular PYB has that title because nobody else wanted it - in the whole village of 400+ people so that doesn't mean a lot to me and I certainly don't want to give 'face' to somebody who(new slant on this thread) goes around pocketing funeral money, who bribes Indian families before reporting them to immigration and also who doesn't attend his government arranged PYB training sessions, and who, my partner has just told me, keeps his mianoi in the same home as his 1st wife!! No, sorry, absolutely no repsect!

You will, afterall, show respect to someone of a higher stature than yourself...

The retired teacher whos wife is dying from cancer and who has to take care of their down syndrome daughter has respect, not a guy who philanders, cheats, lies, steals and kisses arse

Nikkijah

Edited December 20, 2006 by Nikkijah

[manjara]

One other point, with a Non-O 1-year visa, you have to report to the Police station every 90 days to confirm your address, failure to do so results in a 2000 baht (or so) fine. It happened to me when I forgot to go.

Have you forgotten to go, then, Nikkijah? If you have been going then they should already have your address...

If you're on tourist visas then the rest of this thread applies.

[guru]

I have a Non-O visa until January, hopefully I'll be able to get another one when I visit a consulate outside of Thailand in the new year.

He doesn't report his address for the requirement of being here for more than 90 days because he's on a non-immigrant O and has to leave at 90 day intervals.

If he was on an annual extension he wouldn't be going to a consulate in January.

Edited December 20, 2006 by guru

[Nikkijah]

One other point, with a Non-O 1-year visa, you have to report to the Police station every 90 days to confirm your address, failure to do so results in a 2000 baht (or so) fine. It happened to me when I forgot to go.

Have you forgotten to go, then, Nikkijah? If you have been going then they should already have your address...

If you're on tourist visas then the rest of this thread applies.

As I've already said in this thread, I have a NON-O visa but I never knew I had to report every 90 days to a police station, I thought leving the country and re-entering was proof enough of my presence as well as initially reporting to the police station when I move into a new property...

[Krub]

One other point, with a Non-O 1-year visa, you have to report to the Police station every 90 days to confirm your address, failure to do so results in a 2000 baht (or so) fine. It happened to me when I forgot to go.

Have you forgotten to go, then, Nikkijah? If you have been going then they should already have your address...

If you're on tourist visas then the rest of this thread applies.

As I've already said in this thread, I have a NON-O visa but I never knew I had to report every 90 days to a police station, I thought leving the country and re-entering was proof enough of my presence as well as initially reporting to the police station when I move into a new property...

If you go out of the country before the 90 days is up your clock re-start when you re-enter Thailand (for the 90 days reporting)

The 90 day reporting (when necessary) can be done to the local cops, local immigration in person or by post

Registering at your place of residence is different and is done with the TM 30 form to the local cops

[wpcoe]

Immigration law requires your presence to be reported within 24 hours. Good hotels have always done this and is why they have to take information from your passport upon check-in. Smaller places and guest houses were very poor in reporting but several years ago they were told to get there act together. I still have small upcountry hotels use my wife name and ignore me so there is still a learning curve. The owner is supposed to report you living there (seldom done) but there is a small fine if they fail to do so. There seems to have been increased enforcement in some areas recently (last year or so).

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the

following :

1. Shall not engage in the occupation or temporary or employment unless authorized by the

Director General. or competent official deputized by the Director General . If , in any case , there is a law

concerning alien employment provided hereafter , the granting of work privileges must comply with the

law concerned.

2. Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official. Where there is proper reason

that he cannot stay at the place as indicated to the competent official, he shall notify the competent official

of the change in residence , within 24 hours from the time of removing to said place.

3. Shall notify the police official of the local police station where such alien resides, within twenty

– four hours from the time of arrival. In the case of change in residence in which new residence is not

located the same area with the former police stations , such alien must notify the police official of the

police station for that area within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival.

4. If the alien travels to any province and will stay there longer than twenty – four hours , such

alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within forty – eight hours from the time

of arrival.

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager

where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the

competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or

hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned. If there is no Immigration Office

located in that area , the local police official for that area must be notified.

In case the house , dwelling place , or hotel where the alien has stayed under provision of Para.1

is located within the Bangkok area , such notification must be reported to the competent official at the

Immigration Division.

Making notification , in reference to the Para 1 and 2 of this Section , must comply with

regulations prescribed by the Director General.

If you go out of the country before the 90 days is up your clock re-start when you re-enter Thailand (for the 90 days reporting)

The 90 day reporting (when necessary) can be done to the local cops, local immigration in person or by post

Registering at your place of residence is different and is done with the TM 30 form to the local cops

OK, I'm totally confused now. I have a Non-Immigrant O visa with an extension for Retirement. Am I "an alien having received a temporary entry permit"?

If so, does my 90-day report to Immigrations and/or TM.6 card I submitted to Immigrations at the airport satisfy the Section 37 quoted above, or do I also need to go to the local police station and fill out some TM.30 form? If the latter, do I need to do this every time I re-enter Thailand?

Section 38 makes it sound like either/or: you report to Immigrations unless there is not an Immigrations office in the area in which case you report to the police. Krub made it sound like there are two different requirements: reporting to Immigrations AND registering your place of residence with the local police.

When foreign (i.e. non-Thai) friends come to stay me at my condo, must we march (I don't mean lockstep goose-stepping) to the police station for notation of their location in the Kingdom if they already put my address on the TM.6 card? What if they did NOT put my address on the TM.6 card? (e.g. They stayed in a Bangkok hotel before visiting me in Pattaya, and they put the hotel information on the TM.6)

I have no objection to have to report to both authorities, but was simply never aware of an obligation to register my residence separately with the police.

[Krub]

Immigration law requires your presence to be reported within 24 hours. Good hotels have always done this and is why they have to take information from your passport upon check-in. Smaller places and guest houses were very poor in reporting but several years ago they were told to get there act together. I still have small upcountry hotels use my wife name and ignore me so there is still a learning curve. The owner is supposed to report you living there (seldom done) but there is a small fine if they fail to do so. There seems to have been increased enforcement in some areas recently (last year or so).

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the

following :

1. Shall not engage in the occupation or temporary or employment unless authorized by the

Director General. or competent official deputized by the Director General . If , in any case , there is a law

concerning alien employment provided hereafter , the granting of work privileges must comply with the

law concerned.

2. Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official. Where there is proper reason

that he cannot stay at the place as indicated to the competent official, he shall notify the competent official

of the change in residence , within 24 hours from the time of removing to said place.

3. Shall notify the police official of the local police station where such alien resides, within twenty

– four hours from the time of arrival. In the case of change in residence in which new residence is not

located the same area with the former police stations , such alien must notify the police official of the

police station for that area within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival.

4. If the alien travels to any province and will stay there longer than twenty – four hours , such

alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within forty – eight hours from the time

of arrival.

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager

where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the

competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or

hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned. If there is no Immigration Office

located in that area , the local police official for that area must be notified.

In case the house , dwelling place , or hotel where the alien has stayed under provision of Para.1

is located within the Bangkok area , such notification must be reported to the competent official at the

Immigration Division.

Making notification , in reference to the Para 1 and 2 of this Section , must comply with

regulations prescribed by the Director General.

If you go out of the country before the 90 days is up your clock re-start when you re-enter Thailand (for the 90 days reporting)

The 90 day reporting (when necessary) can be done to the local cops, local immigration in person or by post

Registering at your place of residence is different and is done with the TM 30 form to the local cops

OK, I'm totally confused now. I have a Non-Immigrant O visa with an extension for Retirement. Am I "an alien having received a temporary entry permit"?

If so, does my 90-day report to Immigrations and/or TM.6 card I submitted to Immigrations at the airport satisfy the Section 37 quoted above, or do I also need to go to the local police station and fill out some TM.30 form? If the latter, do I need to do this every time I re-enter Thailand?

Section 38 makes it sound like either/or: you report to Immigrations unless there is not an Immigrations office in the area in which case you report to the police. Krub made it sound like there are two different requirements: reporting to Immigrations AND registering your place of residence with the local police.

When foreign (i.e. non-Thai) friends come to stay me at my condo, must we march (I don't mean lockstep goose-stepping) to the police station for notation of their location in the Kingdom if they already put my address on the TM.6 card? What if they did NOT put my address on the TM.6 card? (e.g. They stayed in a Bangkok hotel before visiting me in Pattaya, and they put the hotel information on the TM.6)

I have no objection to have to report to both authorities, but was simply never aware of an obligation to register my residence separately with the police.

As far as I understand it and the way I have done/am doing it is :

1. If you stay more than 90 days in a strech withinh Thailand you must report your being in the country to the authorities. (Immigration is the normal way but local police are able to also accept it) It is done with the TM47 form (around the 90th day stay) The first 'report' for this is made at your entry with the TM 6 from which mran sthat if you stay less than 90 days you do not need to report with the TM47 form as the next TM 6 from will do the trick and your clock re-start.

2. Any place of abode which has a foreigner staying (even for 1 night) is suppose to report that stay to the authorities and this is done with the TM 30 form to the local cop office (only I think Immigration does not do these but I am not sure never tried as my immigration office is more than 25km away).

Thuis is why hotesl require you to enter passport number at check-in. Th landlord of an appartment is also liable to do that as is the landlord of a piec eof land on which you have built your house or the householder should do it.

I hope I have not mixed the TM form numbers if so can a Mod correct ?

Number one is a requirement for the foreigner, number two is for the hotel/landlord

[SweGuava]

Me and my wife just finished our house a few months ago. She is the owner, I, of course live there with her and our newly born daughter.

As I try to comply with the laws to the best of my knowledge, I went down to Immigration at Suan Phlu to ask for the forms needed for this report a few weeks before we were supposed to move in.

They just waived me away and said that my wife did not have to report me staying in the house as we are married.

I explained our situation once again, but the answer was the same, not necessary.

I am not convinced though. Anyone?

[wpcoe]

Having a Non-Immigrant O with retirement extension and living in my own condo in Pattaya, I only need to report my existence to ONE authority, which is accomplished initially via TM.6, and subsequently handled via 90-day TM.47 reports. I do not need to check-in via TM.30 with the police as long as I stay in my own condo. Have I got that part straight now?

If I go upcountry and stay for a few days in Chiang Mai and the hotel reports my presence to the authorities there, do I need to take some action upon returning home to my condo in Pattaya? If so, with whom: police or Immigrations?

Hotels and apartment landlords are in the role of "professional guest hosting," but what about a private individual condo-owner who has an overnight "alien" visitor? Does the condo owner need to report his/her guest to someone? Or, is it the obligation of the alien to do the reporting in this case?

[steveromagnino]

just bowl on down to the local police, explain that you want to make sure that you are registered there, and then if the Phoo Yai bahn asks any questions, then you can just tell him (politely) that you deal directly with the police, so no need for him to help thank you very much.

(of course, you actually want him to leave, and want to say that, but YOU are a guest in the area, and rather than ruin everything for the rest of the village by causing a conflict, you instead decide to take a mature longer term view by simply not being rude. Tough I know, but the long term benefits outweigh a pointless childish hissy fit. I have learned things like this the hard way :-))

If you cannot speak Thai well enough to sort this out, then go with your wife. If you really want them to like you, take a bottle of something along afterwards, and share (preferably with wife absent). Upcountry police drinking sessions can be fun. But only join in the drinking if you actually can speak Thai, otherwise leave them to do it themselves.

[oxymoron]

Sorry to be so ignorant but what/who is a "Phoo Yai bahn "

[Cyberstar]

Me and my wife just finished our house a few months ago. She is the owner, I, of course live there with her and our newly born daughter.

As I try to comply with the laws to the best of my knowledge, I went down to Immigration at Suan Phlu to ask for the forms needed for this report a few weeks before we were supposed to move in.

They just waived me away and said that my wife did not have to report me staying in the house as we are married.

I explained our situation once again, but the answer was the same, not necessary.

I am not convinced though. Anyone?

It seems to be a law from 17th. century, that isn't taken too seriously by the authorities nowadays, but they do know it exists. When I applied for my first visa extension at Chiang Mai immigration, they asked my wife if she had done that reporting. Not getting a clear "yes", they asked us to go to another office on the compound and submit the reporting form ... No problem, it all appeared as if the immi-officer just wanted to help us get all paperworks tidy.

[Nikkijah]

just bowl on down to the local police, explain that you want to make sure that you are registered there, and then if the Phoo Yai bahn asks any questions, then you can just tell him (politely) that you deal directly with the police, so no need for him to help thank you very much.

(of course, you actually want him to leave, and want to say that, but YOU are a guest in the area, and rather than ruin everything for the rest of the village by causing a conflict, you instead decide to take a mature longer term view by simply not being rude. Tough I know, but the long term benefits outweigh a pointless childish hissy fit. I have learned things like this the hard way :-))

If you cannot speak Thai well enough to sort this out, then go with your wife. If you really want them to like you, take a bottle of something along afterwards, and share (preferably with wife absent). Upcountry police drinking sessions can be fun. But only join in the drinking if you actually can speak Thai, otherwise leave them to do it themselves.

Thanks Steve, I haven't actually been rude to anybody, on the contrary, I was as polite(and mature!) as possible as this stranger had just given me a lift on his motorbike(didn't you read my previous posts on this thread?), and as I cannot speak enough Thai I wouldn't start a conversation let alone an argument or fight!(Or hissy fit as you put it) F*****g hissy fit HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Like I've said already in this thread, I'm not going to kiss this idiots arse, and I have also said that he is disliked by the whole village already so not much chance of 'ruining it' as it's already ruined Our landlady has already told him to stay off her land(our rented land) so I don't even have to see him unless I meet him in the street

Actually, your advice to go to the police station without him knowing goes against basic Thai principles of 'face' as we/they know it, if I was to go through the PYB then he would keep his 'face' (isn't it sad - this face thing.. )

One more thing Steve my friend, I'm in Bangkok but don't forget that drinking sessions still happen here and yes they are fun and very very amusing for me