Van drivers ask PM to change new safety rules

[spidermike007]

Please, please whatever you do, do not make Thailand a safer place and do not force us into maintaining some discipline, and losing passenger fares. I beg you. Please let it be just like before, where we are able to hire incompetent drivers, who are very reckless, and  even though they get into accidents, and get many people killed on a consistent basis, we never have to face any real penalties, or suffer because of it. Please let things be like before. Yes we are making very good profits, but do not ask us to spend some of those profits on seat belts, and such unnecessary stuff like that. Please. I beg you. 

 

No doubt this fabulously incompetent government will continue to show utter and complete disregard for traffic and public safety. After all, who travels on those mini vans? It is not the wealthy, elite, or connected ones, is it? It is the general population, who must be ignored, and should not be protected, at all costs. 

Edited March 29, 2017 by spidermike007

[NCC1701A]

Army mafia telling the police mafia to tell the mini van mafia what to do.

 

oh, by the way, did you hear there is no prostitution in Pattaya?

[whoareyou]

Well done the junta. These new requests don't even deserve a response.

[Songlaw]

Clearly, a distinction should have been made between local BMTA drivers and the over-the-road minivan transport services which I believe are privately owned and by most news accounts the services chiefly involved in the majority of horrific loss-of-life scenarios that sometimes occur on the open roadways. I have lived in BKK for a number of years and have found the local BMTA drivers, when gauged by real-world Thai traffic criteria, to be more than adequate to the task. The mentioned requests are, regardless of the convoluted thinking on GPS (which could be viewed by the contractor as a largely unnecessary burden as they presumably know precisely where they are going), reasonable and relief in these matters should be granted.

There are seat-belt rules posted, albeit in Thai, and belts themselves are available, in most (all?) cases. There is little room in a fully packed van for a driver to be personally investigating the situation, which is really not his responsibility, anyway. Passengers are responsible for what they do once they sit down. For example, they could and in some cases presumably would remove the belts, anytime post-inspection. Say, to retrieve a phone or maybe fare from a pocket. So what would then compel someone to replace the belt afterward? His responsibility should, at most, end with a verbal reminder prior to departure. Even that becomes dubious as passengers mount and dismount the vehicle in stutter-step fashion throughout the journey. Regardless, in more than 7 years of exclusive use of minivans and buses, I have not been in a situation where use a safety harness while commuting would have made a tremendous difference in outcomes, though I admit, at least in theory, they exist. Nor have any of my compatriots, Thai or Farang, ever mentioned this as being a pressing issue. City buses are potentially much more dangerous to everyone and everything around them, yet they are not generally expected to supply belts, nor are they heavily monitored for risky behaviour.  

 

The aforementioned contract should be honored in accordance with requirements extant at the time of signing (this is a legal point of fact) with the company given its option to either debate the validity of the new constraints or not renew if it ultimately finds it cannot comply with the new regs for whatever reason, but not before that time. This has nothing to do with taking responsibility for one's behaviour. It has to do with being first caught in the cross-fire, then, as is the case with most regulatory flatulence here, bullied. 

Edited March 29, 2017 by Songlaw

[Mr Freeze]

The introduction of an iQ test for drivers wouldn't go  amiss 

[Songlaw]

3 minutes ago, Mr Freeze said:

The introduction of an iQ test for drivers wouldn't go  amiss 

A test wouldn't do this site any harm, either.

[ujayujay]

Childish behavior. In truth they do not want to do anything.  License removal would be a solution.

[Cranky]

The real question is; How are they going to install 20+ seat belts in to the back of a pick-up truck to meet the safety requirements?

[free123]

maybe its only my own subjective view but as i come to th many years and experiencing city traffic in bkk and in other places ( as a pedestrant ) i feel with the new government the drivers kind of more respect traffic rules especially on red lights... the many years in the past i felt that a red light at a pedestrain crossing is rather seen as a recommendation  than a rule...now this year i very seldom saw a driver ignoring the red light or the pedestrant....maybe others had the same experience ? it seems  they really start to tighten up  the traffic side of the kingdom dishing out  hefty fines to the abusers...  not mai ben rai anymore ???

[krobert6]

They wont get the subs up the Mekong until they blast the rocks at Chiang Khong oops - wrong thread

Edited March 29, 2017 by krobert6
Wrong thread :)

[Blackheart1916]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

They also asked for the postponement on the requirement to have a GPS device installed on each van, which they claimed was unnecessary as congested traffic conditions prevent vans from speeding anyway. 

So what is it that kills 30,000 people on the roads here each year, old age due to the slow traffic?

[Wilsonandson]

The real question is; How are they going to install 20+ seat belts in to the back of a pick-up truck to meet the safety requirements?

Exactly, round my neck of the woods there are very few public buses. Most people travel using vans or as you say pickups converted into sontaews. How can these types of public transport exist anymore with these new seatbelt rules? Now it's summer holidays and the kids are home but when school starts again who is going to take them there? I foresee big queues for the limitied amount of buses available in my area and taxis full of school children.

[geriatrickid]

In the past week,  none of my taxis had a working seat belt in the back seat. I was all over the place too; Thonburi, Silom, Lad Phrao, Siam, Chinatown

[Songlaw]

1 minute ago, free123 said:

maybe its only my own subjective view but as i come to th many years and experiencing city traffic in bkk and in other places ( as a pedestrant ) i feel with the new government the drivers kind of more respect traffic rules especially on red lights... the many years in the past i felt that a red light at a pedestrain crossing is rather seen as a recommendation  than a rule...now this year i very seldom saw a driver ignoring the red light or the pedestrant....maybe others had the same experience ? it seems  they really start to tighten up  the traffic side of the kingdom dishing out  hefty fines to the abusers...  not mai ben rai anymore ???

 

Though I don't really see a dramatic increase in police presence, I do see an increase in their professionalism. Which along with your observations, gives me the sense that, unlike the farang here, Thai society is in some ways perhaps growing up. I have noticed the same things you have, but I am not sure of the underlying reasons for the apparent shift just yet. I am watching for other signs of emergent 'civility' in the general population. Keep a good thought.

[Kasset Tak]

1^st  there are 14 real seats, the 15^th is more of an "emergency seat"
2^nd  how can you as a passenger be responsible for wearing seatbelt when the driver has forced it up behind/under the seat so it wont be a problem for him.

3rd traffic congestion... while in BBK yes but if they get outside... 160 is the fastest I have seen on the speedometer while in a van!

 

[kiwikeith]

3 hours ago, Nigeone said:

Just shows how safety and common sense plays no part in Thai van drivers mentality. And never will ! As for the rest of the Thai drivers on the road !! Words fail me ! 

True, also I think greed, broken seatbelts fittings , broken door latches fit into the complaint as they are to mean to fix them.

They can't speed because of traffic , the only time I ever felt safe was when they where forced to go slow by traffic conditions.

 

 

What about the log books the PM was bringing in within 30 days? any progress here?.

I think they are pathetic careless mongrels with no respect for human life or any idea how to drive safely.

I hope the government stands firm and brings the log books in as well.

I will never ride them unless I was desperate to get somewhere, they scare the hell out of me. 

[Songlaw]

50 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

What are even the speed limits in Thailand?

I am never sure, but in Bangkok, between speed bumps, potholes, pedestrians and perennial gridlock, it almost doesn't matter.

[wgdanson]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

Van drivers ask PM to change new safety rules 
By Chakkawan Salaytoo
The Nation

 

File photo

 

BANGKOK: -- Representatives of public transport vans on Tuesday urged the prime minister to cancel the 13-seat limit and the requirement for passengers to fasten their seat belts.

 

The new regulations were imposed under Article 44. The order was published in the Royal Gazette last Wednesday to improve the safety of vans used for public transportation.

 

Submitting their petition through the Public Service in Bangkok, they asked for a grace period until their current concession contracts with the Bangkok Mass Transit Authority expires. 

 

They claimed they have insufficient funds to make many of the adjustments which are required under the new rules. 

 

They asked for the 13-seat limit to be cancelled so their current 15-seat vans can be used legally. They also asked for the postponement on the requirement to have a GPS device installed on each van, which they claimed was unnecessary as congested traffic conditions prevent vans from speeding anyway. 

 

They said that the requirement for all passengers to wear seat belts should be the responsibility of passengers because the vans already instructing passengers to wear seat belts.

 

The order authorised Land Transport Department officials to revoke or suspend the use of transport vans or the public transport licence for up to six months if an accident stems from a van driver exceeding the legal speed limit or the driver worked beyond the legal limit of driving hours. A penalty will also be imposed if the van is used for illegal activities, or passengers are overcharged.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/national/30310572

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-03-29

Leave two seats empty.....doh!

 

[Bangkok Barry]

35 minutes ago, free123 said:

maybe its only my own subjective view but as i come to th many years and experiencing city traffic in bkk and in other places ( as a pedestrant ) i feel with the new government the drivers kind of more respect traffic rules especially on red lights... the many years in the past i felt that a red light at a pedestrain crossing is rather seen as a recommendation  than a rule...now this year i very seldom saw a driver ignoring the red light or the pedestrant....maybe others had the same experience ? it seems  they really start to tighten up  the traffic side of the kingdom dishing out  hefty fines to the abusers...  not mai ben rai anymore ???

Try using a zebra crossing and report back to us from your hospital bed.

[Wilsonandson]

Though I don't really see a dramatic increase in police presence, I do see an increase in their professionalism. Which along with your observations, gives me the sense that, unlike the farang here, Thai society is in some ways perhaps growing up. I have noticed the same things you have, but I am not sure of the underlying reasons for the apparent shift just yet. I am watching for other signs of emergent 'civility' in the general population. Keep a good thought.

I haven't seen any improvement in the policing of traffic. In other areas of policework they do seem to be catching up with other countries in investigating crimes using new technology. But as for traffic police the same tactics are still being used.
- The checkpoint - Looking for illegal immigrants.
- The U-turn waver- Helping during the rush hour to let traffic through.
- The Police car siren - a police car puts his siren on to speed up traffic.
- The traffic light changer - a policeman changes the lights depending on how much traffic.
- The ambush - Under a bridge or on some back road short cut a police checkpoint is set up, mostly looking for helmetless motorcyclists.
These seem to be the tactics I see everyday. Same, same.

[hobz]

Very misleading title. It's obviously not the van drivers that are complaining. It's the van owners that are too cheap to buy seat belts for the vans. 

The same van owners that pressure their drivers into driving like crazy.

[janclaes47]

It really goes over my head why they ask to change the rules, because knowing Thailand, chances are very small that the rules will be enforced ever.

[Wilsonandson]

It really goes over my head why they ask to change the rules, because knowing Thailand, chances are very small that the rules will be enforced ever.

There's not enough police to enforce the law, imo.

[hobz]

4 hours ago, whatawonderfulday said:

Pathetic outburst from the van drivers which explains clearly why they should all be taken of the road in the interests of public safety

You are directing your disgust at the wrong people. 

It's clearly the van owners (transportation companies) that are too cheap to buy seat belts.

(Also they are the ones that set the time schedules that promote the reckless driving)

[Srikcir]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

Representatives of public transport vans on Tuesday urged the prime minister to cancel the 13-seat limit and the requirement for passengers to fasten their seat belts.

Today Prayut triggered Article 44 to enforce harsh penalties on traffic lawbreakers. 

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/opinion/tulsathit/30310579

If Prayut cancels the seat limit and seat belt requirements for vans then he effectively cancels Article 44.

[hotchilli]

Please cancel or delay everything so we can continue as normal...

[The Deerhunter]

4 hours ago, whatawonderfulday said:

Pathetic outburst from the van drivers which explains clearly why they should all be taken of the road in the interests of public safety

Typical.  95 % of the van drivers causing trouble for all the rest.    

Useful alternative idea.

We have (more or less) stopped using minivans some months ago.   When we have to come or go from BKK and are not using our own vehicle for some reason, we ring a particular taxi & he comes and picks us up and delivers us in or out of the Big Mango.. Or even by arrangement, friends or family from the the rail station or airport.  Photos of taxi or driver or friends or the 4 numbers of the taxi plate sent on Line  to the taxi man and friends/family or signs held up will do the connecting.  Use your imagination.  Next time you are in BKK and find a good driver who impresses you with his attitude and safety ask him if he wants some regular work and for his phone number.   They are out there. Don't say they are not.  That is exactly what we did. It took more than one taxi ride to find one  and he has a mate with a Toyota Estima people mover for the bigger groups.  Look for a well maintained modern taxi and a polite clean safe driver with pressed shirt.     1200 or 1500 baht where we are is better than risking our lives.  If there is more than one in the cab, say 3 or 4, it can nearly start to be an economic idea as well.

[HHTel]

49 minutes ago, Cranky said:

The real question is; How are they going to install 20+ seat belts in to the back of a pick-up truck to meet the safety requirements?

According to the new safety laws, people cannot be transported in the back of a pickup.  That covers baht buses, open trucks etc and all passenger carrying vehicles must have seat belts.  Tuk-tuks, buses.

Good luck with that one!!

The only thing I'd disagree with is the onus being on the driver to make sure everyone is buckled up.  The responsibility should be borne by the passenger except in the case of children where the onus is on the driver.

[SunsetT]

5 hours ago, wakeupplease said:

No much safer (well a little bit) with 13 and belts, but could a U turn happen??

13 seats are  no safer than 15. It will simply  make it more comfortable for the passengers having somewhere to stow their baggage.

 

They need to strictly prohibit any standing passengers as the public minibus services that have replaced the bigger buses on many services still pick up passengers, especially school kids, like the big buses, anywhere and everywhere until they are packed to overflowing. They even carry a ticketseller/steward who stands for most of the journey when all seats are full. Absurd!

[Wilsonandson]

According to the new safety laws, people cannot be transported in the back of a pickup.  That covers baht buses, open trucks etc and all passenger carrying vehicles must have seat belts.  Tuk-tuks, buses.
Good luck with that one!!
The only thing I'd disagree with is the onus being on the driver to make sure everyone is buckled up.  The responsibility should be borne by the passenger except in the case of children where the onus is on the driver.

All passenger carrying vehicles:-
-Trains
-Airplanes
-Ferries
Come on this must be a joke!
Buses need seatbelts!
Ain't no one going to work soon, no way to get there!