Can you work overseas whilst retired in Thailand?

[overherebc]

8 minutes ago, bradleyc93 said:

I think it shouldn't be a problem to work oversees.

Just re-read the original post and noticed the OP mentioned working in Oz.

Not a problem, my mates been doing FI-FO to Oz for a couple of years and he's on a retirement extension here in Thailand. Wanted a married ext' but Imm' pushed him into retirement ext' when he showed his bank book.

[thailiban2]

Thank you everyone for your comments!! The general consensus seems to be that there will be no problems working elsewhere as long as it's not within Thailand. The replies are exactly what i was hoping for. Thanks again!!

[BritTim]

On 4/3/2017 at 8:30 PM, falang07 said:

BTW, is not online work considered done there where the customer's company is incorporated? At least in Europe it is so, e.g if you live in Germany and work for a company in France, the work is considered to be done in France.

It is very important not to assume your own countries laws are reflected in those applied in Thailand. Thailand's laws in such matters are very antiquated. As written, they literally include any kind of "work", paid or unpaid, carried out within Thailand's borders. The authorities realize that is quite impractical, and many forms of work without a work permit are tolerated. The difficulty we all have is knowing what is tolerated and what is not.

In a purely literal sense, probably most retirees and tourists here in Thailand are in technical violation of the labor laws!

[muzmurray]

8 hours ago, BritTim said:

It is very important not to assume your own countries laws are reflected in those applied in Thailand. Thailand's laws in such matters are very antiquated. As written, they literally include any kind of "work", paid or unpaid, carried out within Thailand's borders. The authorities realize that is quite impractical, and many forms of work without a work permit are tolerated. The difficulty we all have is knowing what is tolerated and what is not.

In a purely literal sense, probably most retirees and tourists here in Thailand are in technical violation of the labor laws!

 

"many forms" ?

 

At present they don't actively chase digital nomads, what others are you talking about?

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, muzmurray said:

 

"many forms" ?

 

At present they don't actively chase digital nomads, what others are you talking about?

Taking business related phone calls, answering emails, attending meetings, maintaining stock portfolios, making repairs to ones house or car, and so on.

 

You might say (correctly) that it is crazy that some of these be considered work in contravention of the labor laws. Further, the authorities have officially announced that some of these are allowed. That does not change the fact that they are technically in violation of the labor laws as written.

[falang07]

On 4. 4. 2017 at 5:16 PM, BritTim said:

It is very important not to assume your own countries laws are reflected in those applied in Thailand. Thailand's laws in such matters are very antiquated. As written, they literally include any kind of "work", paid or unpaid, carried out within Thailand's borders. The authorities realize that is quite impractical, and many forms of work without a work permit are tolerated. The difficulty we all have is knowing what is tolerated and what is not.

In a purely literal sense, probably most retirees and tourists here in Thailand are in technical violation of the labor laws!

So is it your personal opinion, or do you know what exactly the Thai law says?

[Kerryd]

It is not a problem.

I did it for years while working in the M.E., often on 3 in/1 out contracts. When I hit the big 5-0 I got the Non-O(A) and Retirement Extension and carried on. My pay was going into my Thai account via wire transfers from overseas (that was going on well before I applied for the Non-O(A) any ways and wasn't an issue in any event).

 

As noted above, just make sure you get a multi-entry permit when you renew your extension. In some cases because of work/holiday plans, I had to renew my extension early (up to 3 months before it was due). When I was working, the Retirement Extension was great because I didn't have to worry if I ended up 2-3 days over the "30 day mark" like used to happen when I was just getting the 30 day stamp on arrival. Never had to worry about the 90 day reports as I wasn't home long enough to matter.

[overherebc]

12 hours ago, falang07 said:

So is it your personal opinion, or do you know what exactly the Thai law says?

The problem with trying to answer your question lies in the fact that the law is open to interpretation by the person enforcing at the time.

Your interpretation will be very different from the interpretation made by the official.

eg. You have 5 thai people building a garage at your home and although you are not doing any physical work you might be accused of working if you are seen supervising, telling them what to do or how to do it. That would/could be classed as work if the official decides you were actually involved in using 'effort' even if you are not being paid.

You can argue all day on it

[rockingrobin]

29 minutes ago, overherebc said:

The problem with trying to answer your question lies in the fact that the law is open to interpretation by the person enforcing at the time.

Your interpretation will be very different from the interpretation made by the official.

eg. You have 5 thai people building a garage at your home and although you are not doing any physical work you might be accused of working if you are seen supervising, telling them what to do or how to do it. That would/could be classed as work if the official decides you were actually involved in using 'effort' even if you are not being paid.

You can argue all day on it

The issue is not really about if you work elsewhere, but when completing the extension of stay form it requests , the reason for extension. I presume the response is retirement, which cant be correct if the applicant is intending to carry on working.

I am aware that people do successfully conduct such activities but to me it would appear an abuse of the system

[HooHaa]

On 4/3/2017 at 11:46 AM, TSF said:

Certainly what OP does outside Thailand has nothing to do with his status inside Thailand. But what happens when OP is back in Thailand and clients and business associates contact him by email and video conferences and OP is conducting business via internet from his home inside Thailand? Is that legal? If so then how is that different from the online teachers who give lessons to Chinese students via webcam from inside Thailand - and get caught and fined and deported for doing work inside Thailand without the appropriate visas & WP?

The difference is he is doing it in the privacy of his own home.

 

I have been working outside thailand for years and maintaing my interests online when there . There is no expectation from authorities that someone visiting will not answer emails, its ridiculous.

 

Set up an office, hire a secretary etc, and start soliciting business in thailand and you are pushing the limits.

 

Every multinational corporation in thailand has people travelling in on business on a regular basis, it is not an issue, 

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, rockingrobin said:

The issue is not really about if you work elsewhere, but when completing the extension of stay form it requests , the reason for extension. I presume the response is retirement, which cant be correct if the applicant is intending to carry on working.

I am aware that people do successfully conduct such activities but to me it would appear an abuse of the system

Yes and the reason for extension applies to Thailand only ie not going to work in Thailand.

Following your arguement would mean that Thailand could punish you for going back to your own country and doing a few weeks work.

[Naam]

1 hour ago, rockingrobin said:

The issue is not really about if you work elsewhere, but when completing the extension of stay form it requests , the reason for extension. I presume the response is retirement, which cant be correct if the applicant is intending to carry on working.

I am aware that people do successfully conduct such activities but to me it would appear an abuse of the system

Robin don't presume but relax. you rock too mutt 

[overherebc]

4 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Yes and the reason for extension applies to Thailand only ie not going to work in Thailand.

Following your arguement would mean that Thailand could punish you for going back to your own country and doing a few weeks work.

The OP will be breaking no laws or rules by getting a retirement extension and going to work in Oz every so often.

More importantly he is complying with and not abusing the system.

[Naam]

1 minute ago, overherebc said:

The OP will be breaking no laws or rules by getting a retirement extension and going to work in Oz every so often.

More importantly he is complying with and not abusing the system.

i know a fistful of people in their 50s who spend once a year  week or two to renew their extension of stay.

[BritTim]

On 4/5/2017 at 10:27 PM, falang07 said:

So is it your personal opinion, or do you know what exactly the Thai law says?

The governing law is the Working of Alien Act (2008). A good English translation is available here.

The key elements are:

• "Work" means engaging in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits;
• Section 7: The work that may be engaged by alien as well as working area and period shall be prescribed by the Ministerial Regulation. 
• No alien shall engage in any work other than the works under section 7 and the permit shall be granted by the registrar, except for the alien who enters into the Kingdom temporarily under the law on immigration so as to engage in necessary and urgent work for a period of not exceeding fifteen days and that alien may engage in that work after giving written notification to the registrar.

The key point is that all "work" as broadly defined here, and subject to Ministerial Regulations, is (if the law is taken literally) only allowed after issuance of a work permit, or notification of temporary urgent actions (such as repairs). The only exceptions are for such things as consulates and UN institutions. Without question, to strictly apply the law as written would be totally impractical. As I wrote before, that leaves us to infer what is tolerated, and what might result in prosecution.

[jspill]

On 03/04/2017 at 8:30 PM, falang07 said:

BTW, is not online work considered done there where the customer's company is incorporated? At least in Europe it is so, e.g if you live in Germany and work for a company in France, the work is considered to be done in France.

Yes I agree. But that's not a very popular opinion on thaivisa because they're not too fond of under 50s like myself living in thailand on tourist visas supporting themselves working remotely for overseas companies :) Certainly there's never been any record of a 'digital nomad' being convicted of any crime what you describe so that speaks for itself.

[ubonjoe]

A baiting post has been removed.

[bradleyc93]

On 7.4.2017 at 9:54 AM, jspill said:

Yes I agree. But that's not a very popular opinion on thaivisa because they're not too fond of under 50s like myself living in thailand on tourist visas supporting themselves working remotely for overseas companies :) Certainly there's never been any record of a 'digital nomad' being convicted of any crime what you describe so that speaks for itself.

Hmm interesting, I wasn't aware of that fact.