Gibraltar says Spanish navy patrol ship made illegal incursion into its waters

[RuamRudy]

19 hours ago, Lokie said:

According to Panorama's research shown last night in UK, average unemployed 'poor family' was pulling in £20K just on combined benefits - more than working poor families, under the new welfare cap housing benefit is paid differently, most of the unemployed families were around £70 per week worse off but to avoid this cap they only have to work 16 hours a week, oh, what? you must be joking - I have kids to look after, I have a bad back etc etc - it's not fair... (these people had not worked in like 10-20 years? Yet all seemed to have large screen TVs, smoked, had Sky etc...

 

No sympathy, SCROUNGERS!

 

Now, the poor families who are working and trying to make ends meet I would afford everything that can be done to assist them...

 

As for Spain, they get same as the other spanish speaking usurpers down south, Gib is British Sovereign land - so Hasta La Vista Amigo!!

The media has done its job well with you. Instead of questioning why working poor are working yet still poor (here's a hint), the media has convinced us to turn our anger inwards, ignoring of the true villains of the piece, the companies who pay derisory salaries to their employees, and the Tories, who actively support that practice.

[Tarteso]

 
When did Spain 'reconquest his possessions' Ceuta and Melilla?

There was no reconquest in Ceuta and Melilla, it was a conquest in 1497. Between Melilla in the est and Tripoli to the west. It was A continuation of the reconquest of Muslim in Spain by the Catholic Kings to preserve and slow down the Turkish advance to the area.



Excuse my irregular English, I'm Spanish. In my opinion, we should leave these places in North Africa. The difference is that Ceuta and Melilla are not Colonies, they are protectorates.

With respect to Gibraltar, in my opinion, belong to English Crown, in accordance with the treaty Utrech.

[Khun Han]

39 minutes ago, Tarteso said:

There was no reconquest in Ceuta and Melilla, it was a conquest in 1497. Between Melilla in the est and Tripoli to the west. It was A continuation of the reconquest of Muslim in Spain by the Catholic Kings to preserve and slow down the Turkish advance to the area.



Excuse my irregular English, I'm Spanish. In my opinion, we should leave these places in North Africa. The difference is that Ceuta and Melilla are not Colonies, they are protectorates.

With respect to Gibraltar, in my opinion, belong to English Crown, in accordance with the treaty Utrech.

 

But isn't the situation on the ground in Cueta and Melilla much the same as that in Gibraltar, in that the vast majority of the population want to retain the status quo?

[Khun Han]

And Spain is continuing to behave in the opposite way to that which it asked the UK to do :

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/06/spain-gibraltar-traffic-jams--brexit-tensions

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/603126/Gibraltar-Brexit-Spain-Britain-EU-Video-Gun-Police-Border-Theresa-May-Fabian-Picardo-Deal/amp

[Tarteso]

 
But isn't the situation on the ground in Cueta and Melilla much the same as that in Gibraltar, in that the vast majority of the population want to retain the status quo?

I find it pathetic situation that in 21th Century, we are not able to reach bilateral agreement that improve the economy and quality of life of both countries.

On the oh he hand, the sea aggression. Y the expansion of the colony, destroying the biodiversity, and on the other hand tha lack of fishing agreements.

Do we go back to the 18th Century and play Pirates with declarations of war?

Pathetic.

[Lokie]

10 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

The media has done its job well with you. Instead of questioning why working poor are working yet still poor (here's a hint), the media has convinced us to turn our anger inwards, ignoring of the true villains of the piece, the companies who pay derisory salaries to their employees, and the Tories, who actively support that practice.

Crap pal, your talking rubbish!

 

Im working class from Manchester, grafted all my life as I was prepared to get off my ar $ e and go do an honest days work, nowt to do with the media convincing me blah blah blah... I go off my life experience and what I have witnessed living in Manchester over 50 years, Has always been the case that poor paid jobs need a safety net to make up the wage (whether a Tory Government or Labour) but now you have the Not working scrounging class, labour are not for the working man they are for all the freeloaders, I vote for neither of these two parties as they are all FOS!! But at the moment Tories seem the safest hands, the rest are a joke. is about time the freeloading lazy 'I can't work brigade' got some of the free money stopped, if they can keep knocking sprogs out they ARE FIT TO GO AND WORK! (oops, cap lock but I'll leave at that) so back to the OP you were saying this spat about Gibraltar was to blindside the benefits cap thats just been implemented - as said you talk Rubbish on that score, but your free to your opinion but don't talk false hoods in trying to justify it

[Scott]

I strongly suggest members get back on the topic of Gibraltar.  

[Tarteso]

''This is the question about GIBRALTAR".


http://www.gibnet.com/texts/gs1_tou.htm


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[ExpatOilWorker]

On 5/4/2560 at 7:52 PM, Gulfsailor said:

The options for the UK are:

1) Keep Gibraltar. This means it will be out of the EU as well. Free movement of people and goods will stop. In 3 years there will be a referendum on Gibraltar and 96% will vote to secede and join Spain. UK then has to accept this or go to war with Spain, Germany and France over this rock. Not gonna happen. 

2) They share ownership with Spain and Gibraltar and can stay within the single EU marketplace. Everyone happy. 

 

UK can shout and boast all they want, but they will go with option 2. 

They are already moving closer to the EU and Spain.

 

2017 – Following the United Kingdom's triggering of Article 50 to begin the Brexit process,^[82] the European council released a series of guidelines on negotiations for withdrawal. Within these guidelines, core principal number 22 stated that "After the United Kingdom leaves the Union, no agreement between the EU and the United Kingdom may apply to the territory of Gibraltar without the agreement between the Kingdom of Spain and the United Kingdom"^[83] suggesting that Spain had been given a veto. This angered the United Kingdom's government, with Foreign minister Boris Johnson responding swiftly and re-iterating the United Kingdom's commitment to Gibraltar.

[Khun Han]

Spain continues to get excited over Gibraltar after asking the UK to keep a cool head:

 

http://news.sky.com/story/gibraltar-spanish-gunship-in-new-illegal-incursion-in-uk-waters-10835881

[Tarteso]

Spain continues to get excited over Gibraltar after asking the UK to keep a cool head:
 
http://news.sky.com/story/gibraltar-spanish-gunship-in-new-illegal-incursion-in-uk-waters-10835881

Illegal incursions? U.K. Waters? Gibraltar belong to England...not our waters.
Please!!,


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[robertson468]

11 hours ago, Tarteso said:

Illegal incursions? U.K. Waters? Gibraltar belong to England...not our waters.
Please!!,


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You clearly do not know your history.  Please look up the Treaty of Utrecht.  Also, the Spanish complaining about British Sovereignty of Gibraltar is ludicrous, bearing in mind that Spain stole the Canary Island from Portugal!  You need to read more before writing drivel.

[Tarteso]

Wrong words. Sir. And I note that how many people misinterpret the letter of the treatry, to others interests.

Ofcourse, I know my story, and this is very clear. About the Treatry of Utrech, where it cleary says that the property of the rock is of the English Crown and the waters are of Spanish sovereignty.

You should learn more about this history. Or read again this Theatry.

Regards.



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[Tarteso]

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[Tarteso]

You clearly do not know your history.  Please look up the Treaty of Utrecht.  Also, the Spanish complaining about British Sovereignty of Gibraltar is ludicrous, bearing in mind that Spain stole the Canary Island from Portugal!  You need to read more before writing drivel.

I do not write drivel, Sir. And you should respect members who writes posts and opinions in Thaivisa.



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[Scott]

....and if inflammatory remarks continue, suspensions will be given.  

 

[Khun Han]

18 hours ago, Tarteso said:

Illegal incursions? U.K. Waters? Gibraltar belong to England...not our waters.
Please!!,


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My point was that Spain is behaving in an inflammatory manner after initially responding sensibly to Lord Howard's silliness. Why does one of it's warships need to keep sailing right up to the rock?

[Tarteso]

 
My point was that Spain is behaving in an inflammatory manner after initially responding sensibly to Lord Howard's silliness. Why does one of it's warships need to keep sailing right up to the rock?

Kuhn Han: Do you know what is the meaning of Patriotism?.
After all, the British capture of Gibraltar was an act of piracy by Almirante Rookes. Everybody knows and is written in blood in history books.

I wrote before in this forum, that after the Teatry Utrecht, The Rock belong to British Crown, but the sovereignty of the waters, are Spanish.

My point is, if you know what is the patriotic sense? Have you read how many times, in the last 300 years, the British navals warships provoked tensions in this waters and vice versa?.

Sir Robert Gardiner, Gobernor of Gibraltar said in 1856:
"What must be the feeling of all Hispaniards on this noble Rock, every times they look at the rock?". Can you imagine the feeling of British citizen, with a Chinese or Taiwanesse colony in English territory in XXI century?.

It does not make sense to speak in this forum, about the era of Invasions of countries like Spain did in Asia or America, or the English, French, Portuguese colonies in other part of the world. Or talk about why Spain have Ceuta and Melilla in North Africa. We should return these last to Morroco.

I insist, at IMHO, we are in XXI st. century, If our rules, are not able to get an agreement that benefits the two parties, we will not get you and me, in this forum, and we keep playing the pirates until one falls, it would be probably Spain. We are not warlike power, but PATRIOTS. This in my point.

Regards.

[jonclark]

1 hour ago, Tarteso said:

Kuhn Han: Do you know what is the meaning of Patriotism?.
After all, the British capture of Gibraltar was an act of piracy by Almirante Rookes. Everybody knows and is written in blood in history books.

I wrote before in this forum, that after the Teatry Utrecht, The Rock belong to British Crown, but the sovereignty of the waters, are Spanish.

My point is, if you know what is the patriotic sense? Have you read how many times, in the last 300 years, the British navals warships provoked tensions in this waters and vice versa?.

Sir Robert Gardiner, Gobernor of Gibraltar said in 1856:
"What must be the feeling of all Hispaniards on this noble Rock, every times they look at the rock?". Can you imagine the feeling of British citizen, with a Chinese or Taiwanesse colony in English territory in XXI century?.

It does not make sense to speak in this forum, about the era of Invasions of countries like Spain did in Asia or America, or the English, French, Portuguese colonies in other part of the world. Or talk about why Spain have Ceuta and Melilla in North Africa. We should return these last to Morroco.

I insist, at IMHO, we are in XXI st. century, If our rules, are not able to get an agreement that benefits the two parties, we will not get you and me, in this forum, and we keep playing the pirates until one falls, it would be probably Spain. We are not warlike power, but PATRIOTS. This in my point.

Regards.

 

I just dont understand why we cant just all get along. The spanish and english have far far more in common than that which seperates them. 

[JAG]

The options for the UK are:
1) Keep Gibraltar. This means it will be out of the EU as well. Free movement of people and goods will stop. In 3 years there will be a referendum on Gibraltar and 96% will vote to secede and join Spain. UK then has to accept this or go to war with Spain, Germany and France over this rock. Not gonna happen. 
2) They share ownership with Spain and Gibraltar and can stay within the single EU marketplace. Everyone happy. 
 
UK can shout and boast all they want, but they will go with option 2. 

I wouldn't be so sure about that.
I did a garrison tour in Gib back when the border was closed.
All the willy waving by the Spanish achieved was to harden the determination of the Gibraltarians to remain British.

[richard_smith237]

This is quite a hot topic in Spain at the moment. 

 

Just two nights ago I was entertaining a friend who was holidaying in Thailand with Spanish friends (they all live in Spain)... within 10 mins one of my friends Spanish friends showed me his phone and asked me what the picture was... 

... it was the Rock of Gibraltar with a Spanish flag... I was prepared for such a jibe, without dropping a beat, I showed them a Map image of Ceuta....

 

... as light hearted as the exchange was, it showed that this issue is currently quite a topic in Spain... 

Edited April 15, 2017 by richard_smith237

[robertson468]

19 hours ago, Tarteso said:

Kuhn Han: Do you know what is the meaning of Patriotism?.
After all, the British capture of Gibraltar was an act of piracy by Almirante Rookes. Everybody knows and is written in blood in history books.

I wrote before in this forum, that after the Teatry Utrecht, The Rock belong to British Crown, but the sovereignty of the waters, are Spanish.

My point is, if you know what is the patriotic sense? Have you read how many times, in the last 300 years, the British navals warships provoked tensions in this waters and vice versa?.

Sir Robert Gardiner, Gobernor of Gibraltar said in 1856:
"What must be the feeling of all Hispaniards on this noble Rock, every times they look at the rock?". Can you imagine the feeling of British citizen, with a Chinese or Taiwanesse colony in English territory in XXI century?.

It does not make sense to speak in this forum, about the era of Invasions of countries like Spain did in Asia or America, or the English, French, Portuguese colonies in other part of the world. Or talk about why Spain have Ceuta and Melilla in North Africa. We should return these last to Morroco.

I insist, at IMHO, we are in XXI st. century, If our rules, are not able to get an agreement that benefits the two parties, we will not get you and me, in this forum, and we keep playing the pirates until one falls, it would be probably Spain. We are not warlike power, but PATRIOTS. This in my point.

Regards.

 

You are correct in part in saying an area of the waters surrounding Gibraltar belongs to Gibraltar.  I know that for a fact because part of my job whilst stationed on Gibraltar for four years, Commanding 8 Surveillance Troop was to monitor these waters with land borne maritime radar and report all Spanish incursions in to these waters, of which there were many.  I also monitored all Troop and Missile Movement in San Roque, not to mention tracking the drug smugglers leaving Gibraltar water, and picking up their ill-gotten gains in Morocco and trying to smuggle it in to Spain.  The smugglers could never understand why the Spanish Maritime Police knew exactly where to pick them up.  The Gibraltarian, Spanish and UK Forces had an excellent liaison on these operations and sent quite a few of them to rent free accommodation for a long time!

[citybiker]

 
My point was that Spain is behaving in an inflammatory manner after initially responding sensibly to Lord Howard's silliness. Why does one of it's warships need to keep sailing right up to the rock?

Simple provocation?

Either that, or it's a poor pathetic Naval/Political wind up from the Spanish authorities.

There's a much larger strategic issue needing addressed here, yet the Spanish/EU political elements need to get a grip, judging by recent events I won't hold my breath.




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[Tarteso]

Simple provocation?

Either that, or it's a poor pathetic Naval/Political wind up from the Spanish authorities.

There's a much larger strategic issue needing addressed here, yet the Spanish/EU political elements need to get a grip, judging by recent events I won't hold my breath.




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Just like you say...Poor and pathetic post.


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[Khun Han]

32 minutes ago, citybiker said:

 

Simple provocation?

Either that, or it's a poor pathetic Naval/Political wind up from the Spanish authorities.

There's a much larger strategic issue needing addressed here, yet the Spanish/EU political elements need to get a grip, judging by recent events I won't hold my breath.




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And Spain can't be trusted with control of the larger strategy. As evidenced by it's willingness to offer port facilities at it's Morroccan enclave to the Russian fleet headed toward Syria, which it backed away from under international pressure.

[Tarteso]

You are correct in part in saying an area of the waters surrounding Gibraltar belongs to Gibraltar.  I know that for a fact because part of my job whilst stationed on Gibraltar for four years, Commanding 8 Surveillance Troop was to monitor these waters with land borne maritime radar and report all Spanish incursions in to these waters, of which there were many.  I also monitored all Troop and Missile Movement in San Roque, not to mention tracking the drug smugglers leaving Gibraltar water, and picking up their ill-gotten gains in Morocco and trying to smuggle it in to Spain.  The smugglers could never understand why the Spanish Maritime Police knew exactly where to pick them up.  The Gibraltarian, Spanish and UK Forces had an excellent liaison on these operations and sent quite a few of them to rent free accommodation for a long time!

Thanks for your post Roberston468., and thanks for understand my point of view. I am A sailor, like you, we have something in common. I have a family sailboat. I across these waters many times and many years.

I am sorry to stop to writing about this, is very sensitive for me. I don't need to read more provocations from other people without emotional inteligence or hability to understand.... MY POINT OF VIEW.

God save your Queen and God save my king!





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