Trump unleashes military strikes against Assad airbase in Syria

[anon4546543]

1 hour ago, thaihome said:

Interesting read by the Brookings Institution on the Free Syrian Army  and it's ups and downs and current (Nov 2016) in civil war. 

TH

https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-free-syrian-army-a-decentralized-insurgent-brand/&ved=0ahUKEwjCg8eP2Z7TAhVLr48KHeBNB8IQFggYMAA&usg=AFQjCNG3FXxUF5VOeEAy6XJ6kfz2dlT8wg&sig2=ULHwHtJZ8Ybq88BpBfrb-w

 

Basically says that the Free Syrian Army are a bunch of murderous ratbags. Also the Syrian Regime. Also Turkey, US, Russia, France and everyone else sticking there noses in. Add in Al Nusra, Al Qaeda and Muslim Brothers et al. The whole area is a toxic cesspit and what western nations are doing there is a mystery. Trump claims sarin gas attacks in Syria is a threat to US. Russia, US and Germany manufacture tons of it every year. You want to know who bombed a small town in Syria. Track down who supplied it recently

[metisdead]

Off topic posts have been removed as well as the replies. 

[onthesoi]

12 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Well, it may be that once Tillerson and Haley indicated that ISIS was the top priority in Syria, he felt that he could use chemical weapons with impunity. It's really important to resist overestimating the perspicacity of the ruling class.

 

Given the amount of heat it drew last time it was suggested that he used chemical weapons, I doubt he would be so careless, especially with zero gain and the possibility of losing everything. 

 

Remember Assad is a guy who has held on against all the odds against both ISIS and the international community, he isn't stupid and it would be completely out of character for him to commit such a large and random act without giving it careful consideration. 

 

There is absolutely no reason for him to use chemical weapons when he has Russian hardware and even the Russian air force at his disposal.

 

Even without motive anything is possible, but I have to ask where is the evidence? ....there are other invested parties with far greater motive!!!

Edited April 12, 2017 by onthesoi

[metisdead]

A post containing a headline from an unsubstantiated source has been removed. 

[Ramen087]

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/04/11/523427866/u-s-lays-out-case-for-assads-culpability-in-chemical-weapons-attack

 

The above from NPR.org (hope that is ok.)

 

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/04/doubt-syria-chemical-weapons-170411200414919.html

 

From Al-jezeera (same sentiment as above)

Edited April 13, 2017 by Ramen087

[Ramen087]

6 hours ago, onthesoi said:

 

Given the amount of heat it drew last time it was suggested that he used chemical weapons, I doubt he would be so careless, especially with zero gain and the possibility of losing everything. 

 

Remember Assad is a guy who has held on against all the odds against both ISIS and the international community, he isn't stupid and it would be completely out of character for him to commit such a large and random act without giving it careful consideration. 

 

There is absolutely no reason for him to use chemical weapons when he has Russian hardware and even the Russian air force at his disposal.

 

Even without motive anything is possible, but I have to ask where is the evidence? ....there are other invested parties with far greater motive!!!

Sorry but it would seem that only Assad's inner circle, military weapons supplier, PR team and extreme loyalists would have anything to do with the statement made and question asked in the last two paragraphs of your post.

He is doing what he feels he must do to win the war. He uses every weapon at his disposal, even chemical weapons. He has done it before, and it isn't unlikely he will use chemical weapons again before the war has ended.

Edited April 13, 2017 by Ramen087

[Orac]

21 minutes ago, Ramen087 said:

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/04/11/523427866/u-s-lays-out-case-for-assads-culpability-in-chemical-weapons-attack

 

The above from NPR.org (hope that is ok.)

 

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/04/doubt-syria-chemical-weapons-170411200414919.html

 

From Al-jezeera (same sentiment as above)

 

Report attached by MIT CW expert questioning US govt assessment.

Report by White House Alleging Proof of Syria as the Perpetrator of the Nerve Agent Attack in Khan Shaykhun on April4,2017_(April11,2017)_Standard_.pdf

[attrayant]

18 hours ago, onthesoi said:

Let me spell it out for you.

 

You didn't spell anything out.  You just restated your beliefs.

 

Quote

 

In 2011, Assad's motive for firing on protesters was to quickly smother the early stages of an uprising.

 

 

I didn't know you were privy to Assad's innermost thoughts.  Tell us; what is he thinking about right now?

 

Quote

In 2017, Assad has no motive to use chemical weapons.

 

And yet he did it anyway.

 

Today's question: How do you commit a crime and get away with it?

 

Answer: Choose a crime that you have no apparent motivation to commit.  Voilà!  You're automatically not guilty according to that well-known legal loophole, Onthesoi's Defense!

[craigt3365]

43 minutes ago, Ramen087 said:

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/04/11/523427866/u-s-lays-out-case-for-assads-culpability-in-chemical-weapons-attack

 

The above from NPR.org (hope that is ok.)

 

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/04/doubt-syria-chemical-weapons-170411200414919.html

 

From Al-jezeera (same sentiment as above)

From the NPR article:

Quote

There's also video and satellite imagery suggesting the attack hit "in the middle of a street," not a storage depot, the NSC report says. And while ISIS has used some chemical weapons, such as mustard gas, there's no evidence that this attack "involved chemicals in ISIS's possession," the White House says.

 

I'm trying to find a source, but CNN live just said they've got radio intercepts from Syria talking about chemical attacks.  I wasn't listening too close, so don't know the details.  Just can't find a link right now.  Russia seems to have been involved in these communications also.

 

Ah, just came out:

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/12/politics/us-intelligence-syrian-chemical-weapons/index.html

 

Quote

 

US intelligence intercepted communications between Syrian military and chemical experts

The US military and intelligence community has intercepted communications featuring Syrian military and chemical experts talking about preparations for the sarin attack in Idlib last week, a senior US official tells CNN.

 

The intercepts were part of an immediate review of all intelligence in the hours after the attack to confirm responsibility for the use of chemical weapons in an attack in northwestern Syria, which killed at least 70 people. US officials have said that there is "no doubt" that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad is responsible for the attack.

 

 

So much for those saying this was a false flag.  Of course, they'll say this is just western media propaganda. LOL

[Ramen087]

22 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

Report attached by MIT CW expert questioning US govt assessment.

Report by White House Alleging Proof of Syria as the Perpetrator of the Nerve Agent Attack in Khan Shaykhun on April4,2017_(April11,2017)_Standard_.pdf

Nice try as multiple non US sources have documented Assad's previous use, in the same manner as he did earlier this month. There is no credible source that states Assad hasn't divested of his chemical weapons.  HRW and a host of NGOs have the book on this guy. The only way to curtail use is military action, hence the attack by Tomahawk.

[Ramen087]

Please see Craig's post number 525 as well... thanks, craig

[thaihome]

1 hour ago, Ramen087 said:

Nice try as multiple non US sources have documented Assad's previous use, in the same manner as he did earlier this month. There is no credible source that states Assad hasn't divested of his chemical weapons.  HRW and a host of NGOs have the book on this guy. The only way to curtail use is military action, hence the attack by Tomahawk.

 The only issue I have with your post is the conclusion that the cruise missle attack somehow stops or is  a deterrent to future attacks.  It seems to me that Assad has paid a very small price for an attack that was very effective in terrorizing the inhabitants of a rebel area and reminded them of the price they pay now and potentially will pay in the future for support of the rebels. 

 

The only game change I see that could come out is Russia withdrawing support for Assad due to pressure from the Trump administration (a complete, totally unexpected turnaround) due the gas attacks.  Recent reports from Moscow show this is unlikely,  but not entirely out of the question. 

TH 

 

[Ramen087]

14 minutes ago, thaihome said:

 The only issue I have with your post is the conclusion that the cruise missle attack somehow stops or is  a deterrent to future attacks.  It seems to me that Assad has paid a very small price for an attack that was very effective in terrorizing the inhabitants of a rebel area and reminded them of the price they pay now and potentially will pay in the future for support of the rebels. 

 

The only game change I see that could come out is Russia withdrawing support for Assad due to pressure from the Trump administration (a complete, totally unexpected turnaround) due the gas attacks.  Recent reports from Moscow show this is unlikely,  but not entirely out of the question. 

TH 

 

it may or may not be a deterrent...time will tell.  but we now know that the us president has action, and decisiveness on his side if and when a political/diplomatic discussion takes place in reference to the mess that is syria.  diplomacy only works when you have the wherewithal to do what pres. trump did with the tomahawk action... we know assad's word isn't to be relied on as has been done in the recent past

[boomerangutang]

5 minutes ago, Ramen087 said:

it may or may not be a deterrent...time will tell.  but we now know that the us president has action, and decisiveness on his side if and when a political/diplomatic discussion takes place in reference to the mess that is syria.  diplomacy only works when you have the wherewithal to do what pres. trump did with the tomahawk action... we know assad's word isn't to be relied on as has been done in the recent past

"we know assad's word isn't to be relied on as has been done in the recent past"

 

Are we now talking about who has credibility?

 

Trump has zero credibility.  Absolute zero.  Assad and Putin are also liars.   So, I guess it comes down to; who is the bigger liar.     Do Assad and Putin lie more than once per day?    Then, in that case, perhaps they're bigger liars than Trump.   It's sort of like saying two worms are slimier than a slug.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

From the NPR article:

 

I'm trying to find a source, but CNN live just said they've got radio intercepts from Syria talking about chemical attacks.  I wasn't listening too close, so don't know the details.  Just can't find a link right now.  Russia seems to have been involved in these communications also.

 

Ah, just came out:

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/12/politics/us-intelligence-syrian-chemical-weapons/index.html

 

 

So much for those saying this was a false flag.  Of course, they'll say this is just western media propaganda. LOL

I remember Bush and his pal Blair telling us that there was "no doubt" that Saddam had WMDs. Shame it wasn't true. Now we are expected to believe that Assad did it, because the White House says so. 

Those that forget history are doomed to repeat it, or something like that.

[ddavidovsky]

On 12/04/2017 at 9:35 AM, craigt3365 said:

To say Assad is trying to protect his people is one of the most ridiculous comments I've seen in a long time.  How many has he killed so far?  He's the reason Syria isn't stable.  For the sake of women and children in Syria, he needs to go.  He's already killed too many.

 

You keep going on about Assad 'killing his own people'. That's completely fallacious and a result of a complete lack of understanding of the situation. He is fighting a civil war against those who are out to destroy him and his system - they are not 'his people'. 'His people' are the Alawites, who are Shia Muslims. The rebels are not heroes fighting to bring progressive democracy to the country - they are Sunnis who want a Sunni government so they can lord it over the Shias and probably (now they are increasingly radicalised) usher in an even more oppressive system.

 

I do not support Assad, but I promote stability. Under Assad's people (note the term), Syria has been stable for a long time - which is a remarkable achievement given the sectarian elements agitating against them. It's only the misguided, opportunistic uprising on the back of the 'Arab Spring' that has caused the trouble.

 

Fact is, these groups have a biblical hatred for each other. One side will assuredly oppress the other for the sake of their own well-being. You seem to be denial of even that possibility. I refer you to the sociological evidence that is all over the middle east.

[Jingthing]

"His own people" or not, using chemical weapons especially on civilian targets is a WAR CRIME. 

 

Though I do understand removing Assad doesn't mean that Syria is magically transformed into the Summer of Love. 

Edited April 13, 2017 by Jingthing

[craigt3365]

21 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I remember Bush and his pal Blair telling us that there was "no doubt" that Saddam had WMDs. Shame it wasn't true. Now we are expected to believe that Assad did it, because the White House says so. 

Those that forget history are doomed to repeat it, or something like that.

That argument gets old.  Yes, it was a mess up.  Of epic proportions.  But that was years ago.  And a different situation.  I've seen nothing that even comes close to saying this was a false flag.  Back then, plenty were questioning the presence of WMD in Iraq.  Plenry.  Only conspiracy theory websites are saying that now about this bombing.  Oh...and Russia. LOL  Of course there are still those who believe the world is flat and man never landed on the moon.

 

History is doomed to repeat itself.  Like Assad using chemical weapons on his people.  Time and time again. 

 

 

[craigt3365]

10 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

You keep going on about Assad 'killing his own people'. That's completely fallacious and a result of a complete lack of understanding of the situation. He is fighting a civil war against those who are out to destroy him and his system - they are not 'his people'. 'His people' are the Alawites, who are Shia Muslims. The rebels are not heroes fighting to bring progressive democracy to the country - they are Sunnis who want a Sunni government so they can lord it over the Shias and probably (now they are increasingly radicalised) usher in an even more oppressive system.

 

I do not support Assad, but I promote stability. Under Assad's people (note the term), Syria has been stable for a long time - which is a remarkable achievement given the sectarian elements agitating against them. It's only the misguided, opportunistic uprising on the back of the 'Arab Spring' that has caused the trouble.

 

Fact is, these groups have a biblical hatred for each other. One side will assuredly oppress the other for the sake of their own well-being. You seem to be denial of even that possibility. I refer you to the sociological evidence that is all over the middle east.

You are correct.  But why are they fighting a civil war?  Because he killed his own people!  LOL  Which started a civil war because people didn't want to be slaughtered! 

 

Yes, there are problems in Syria.  Like every other country.  But many handled them in a civilized manner.  They don't use chemical weapons on their own people to keep them in line.  Sorry to use the term, but that is a red line the civilized world won't tolerate.  Luckily.

 

Assad's shelf life is getting shorter and shorter.  Without Russian and Iranian help, he would have already been gone.  Blood is on the hands of Russian and Iran also.

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/12/opinions/how-to-force-russias-hand-on-syria-hall/index.html

Quote

The recent sarin gas attacks, launched by Assad forces from a base where a Russian military contingent was present, makes it difficult for any reasonable person to believe Russia had no idea what was going on.

 

Luckily, many countries are trying to hold Russia to task for supporting this mess.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39585071

Quote

After the UN vote, UK Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson said Russia was "on the wrong side of the argument", while French President Francois Hollande said it "bears a heavy responsibility" for continuing to protect Mr Assad and blocking a united international response.

 

[anon4546543]

5 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

That argument gets old.  Yes, it was a mess up.  Of epic proportions.  But that was years ago.  And a different situation.  I've seen nothing that even comes close to saying this was a false flag.  Back then, plenty were questioning the presence of WMD in Iraq.  Plenry.  Only conspiracy theory websites are saying that now about this bombing.  Oh...and Russia. LOL  Of course there are still those who believe the world is flat and man never landed on the moon.

 

History is doomed to repeat itself.  Like Assad using chemical weapons on his people.  Time and time again. 

 

 

I wish the US would supply irrefutable confirmation of chemical attacks. But they don't. They said they had irrefutable evidence of every bs incursion since WW11, The bay of pigs, the Tonkin so called incident in which 55,000 US lives were wasted, Lebanon, where US marines were blown up in an attack on their hotel. Iraq, Iran, Somalia and so many more defeats to the worlds greatest super power, filled with bleats you post. You should give it a rest.. US won the war of Panama and Grenada. Wow. Stuffed up the rest. And still you bleat on 

[rockingrobin]

36 minutes ago, spiderorchid said:

I wish the US would supply irrefutable confirmation of chemical attacks. But they don't. They said they had irrefutable evidence of every bs incursion since WW11, The bay of pigs, the Tonkin so called incident in which 55,000 US lives were wasted, Lebanon, where US marines were blown up in an attack on their hotel. Iraq, Iran, Somalia and so many more defeats to the worlds greatest super power, filled with bleats you post. You should give it a rest.. US won the war of Panama and Grenada. Wow. Stuffed up the rest. And still you bleat on 

UK now saying highly likely Syria behind attack

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39591476

 

' Mrs May said British scientists had analysed material from the site of the attack that killed 80 people in rebel-held Khan Sheikhoun on 4 April.

They had said it was "very clear" sarin or a sarin-like substance was used '

 

 

 

[anon4546543]

18 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

UK now saying highly likely Syria behind attack

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39591476

 

' Mrs May said British scientists had analysed material from the site of the attack that killed 80 people in rebel-held Khan Sheikhoun on 4 April.

They had said it was "very clear" sarin or a sarin-like substance was used '

 

 

 

Yes scientists from Turkey days ago said that sarin was used to kill civilians. But the US said they had tracked and followed Syrian aircraft that the US said had dropped a sarin bomb. So show the proof, not mumble on what May says in scripted propergander. (something like that. lol)

So we know sarin gas was used. but who let it loose on the ground, because we know it was not dropped by an aircraft. It may have been fired by artillery.   

[rockingrobin]

Just now, spiderorchid said:

Yes scientists from Turkey days ago said that sarin was used to kill civilians. But the US said they had tracked and followed Syrian aircraft that the US said had dropped a sarin bomb. So show the proof, not mumble on what May says in scripted propergander. (something like that. lol)

So we know sarin gas was used. but who let it loose on the ground, because we know it was not dropped by an aircraft. It may have been fired by artillery.   

British scientists , sarin or sarin like , therefore not pure sarin that would be expected from the syrian regime.   with reports of a chlorine smell at the attack site  then this would suggest manufacture by the di di method

[craigt3365]

8 hours ago, spiderorchid said:

I wish the US would supply irrefutable confirmation of chemical attacks. But they don't. They said they had irrefutable evidence of every bs incursion since WW11, The bay of pigs, the Tonkin so called incident in which 55,000 US lives were wasted, Lebanon, where US marines were blown up in an attack on their hotel. Iraq, Iran, Somalia and so many more defeats to the worlds greatest super power, filled with bleats you post. You should give it a rest.. US won the war of Panama and Grenada. Wow. Stuffed up the rest. And still you bleat on 

It takes time to pull all the data together.  As you've read, the US gets a lot of communications info.  But doesn't look at all of it unless needed.  That's why, days later, they found intercepts talking about the chemical attack.  They also won't release classified info.  No country would do that.

 

Don't go back to events that happened decades ago.  It's not relevant now.  Those events are nothing like what's happened here.

[craigt3365]

14 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I remember Bush and his pal Blair telling us that there was "no doubt" that Saddam had WMDs. Shame it wasn't true. Now we are expected to believe that Assad did it, because the White House says so. 

Those that forget history are doomed to repeat it, or something like that.

Again, that argument is past it's due date.  Gets old.  And isn't relevant.

 

What is relevant is the previous chemical attacks in Syria.  They've been verified by many others.  Vetted. 

 

What I don't understand is that Assad has done this before with Sarin.  And many times with Chlorine.  Yet now, many are saying this isn't true.  IMHO, that argument doesn't hold water.  If it walks like a duck....the dots just connect too well and all the major leaders of the Western world are in agreement. 

 

Again, some still believe the world is flat and man never landed on the moon. LOL

[iReason]

 

https://www.minds.com/blog/view/699098237063143435

 

[anon4546543]

5 minutes ago, iReason said:

 

https://www.minds.com/blog/view/699098237063143435

 

This post and the highly underlined and blurred and unprofessional "quote" seem to come from the USSR years. The pipeline is a phoney, what idiot is going to build a gas or oil pipe line through a highly unstable Islamic area. Israel has a huge gas venture off its coast and a venture to supply gas and oil to Europe. Much better prospects than Islamic potential, so forget your post. It is phoney and put together by a bunch of amateurs 

[iReason]

"Former CIA officer Graham Fuller discussed Syria under Assad’s predecessor, his father, Hafez al-Assad. It 's Entitled “Bringing Real Muscle to Bear Against Syria” and dated September 14, 1983, amid the Iran-Iraq War:"

 

"Fuller’s analysis conveys Assad as a nuisance hindering the American empire’s lust to control fossil fuel stores and protect ally, Israel, against multiple threats in the Middle East."

https://www.minds.com/blog/view/699098237063143435

 

 

The six-page document continues:

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP88B00443R001404090133-0.pdf

 

Phoney? Amateurs?

 

Read much?

[anon4546543]

5 minutes ago, iReason said:

"Former CIA officer Graham Fuller discussed Syria under Assad’s predecessor, his father, Hafez al-Assad. It 's Entitled “Bringing Real Muscle to Bear Against Syria” and dated September 14, 1983, amid the Iran-Iraq War:"

 

"Fuller’s analysis conveys Assad as a nuisance hindering the American empire’s lust to control fossil fuel stores and protect ally, Israel, against multiple threats in the Middle East."

https://www.minds.com/blog/view/699098237063143435

 

 

The six-page document continues:

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP88B00443R001404090133-0.pdf

 

Phoney? Amateurs?

 

Read much?

Yes, 1983. That is more than a generation ago. Things have changed so much. Living in the distant past seems to be a focus for you. And you believe the post of a former CIA agent, the very people who started this whole mess in the first place. Almost written in cyrillic

[Scott]

Please stay on topic and post information that is a little more current and relevant to the situation today.