Roof Insulation Installer Onto Suspended Ceiling in Chiang Mai

[Dazinoz]

Hi,

 

Can any one recommend or know of an insulation installer in Chiang Mai that can install insulation onto a suspended ceiling?

 

I would do my own install but a bit heavy and clumsy for suspended ceiling. 

 

Only rating house so need someone not going to damage ceilings. House is an oven. Have AC in 2 bedrooms and portable for rest of house but battles to keep temp down. 

[rumak]

I have lived in Thailand 20 years, and in many houses.   This is what i believe based on my experience:  The walls of

concrete houses heat up.  The less protected they are from direct sun,  and the hotter the weather is, will determine

just how warm or even hot the walls get.   So you are correct.  The house becomes an "oven" .  That is why when the

A/C is turned off it doesn't take long before all is hot again. My present house gets almost no direct sun but the past few

days were so hot that the walls still heated up !   However most of the year it is cooler than any other house i lived in.

A big help is that my attic space is very well ventilated, so the heat that builds up during the day is not that bad and dissipates quickly when

night arrives.   I once tried "insulating" the ceiling with the insulation that comes in rolls.   One thinks that this will keep

all the hot air from heating up the ceiling (does a little) BUT it also keeps all the hot air in that your "oven" has created.

The old style house (like in Texas for example) had a huge attic fan that would draw heat from the house and out thru

the attic.  There are different types of roof ventilation here (thailand) that will help in that respect (vents , wind turbines,

fans,etc).     Still not much help in daytime when your walls are heating up and stay hot for hours or days in the HOT

season. I even know people that built "double wall" homes....and still had to use air conditioners.  

Conclusion:   try to keep direct heat off the walls.....have VERY well ventilated attic.    That is what has worked best for

me in this my 7th house in Thailand.   BTW:  all wooden houses get very hot during the day but cool down much quicker

as the wood does not retain heat nearly as much as concrete does.

[eyecatcher]

My advice....go to home pro and buy their 6inch extra cool insulation.

It has the best R value of every other roll of insulation anywhere...and thats because its thicker.

They have a sale on atm for another month.

Yes dont do it youtself. I tried it thinking ok diy expert; agile slim not heavy and can save 2000bt.

Its donkey work with electrics spot lights ceiling hangers.

 

I paid a ceiling lad direct 50btm2 the trick is they lay it out with a long stick so no crawling.

 

I bought 16rolls"(2.4m2 roll) and it made a massive difference to our top floor.

 

Pm me if you would like me to pass on my mans numbr.

[rumak]

Might be good to read this previous post.   My experience was it was a waste of money.   I used ceiling with foil

on it this time.   

"ceiling insulation. Worth the cost ?""

[simoh1490]

I agree the 6 inch foil wrapped insulation is very effective but I've had a very poor experience with HP doing the installation, so much so that they refunded the installation cost and I did it myself - mostly, the average installer here doesn't understand the principles of insulation and leaves gaps etc.

 

And whilst the insulation will be affective at reducing/eliminating radiated heat from the roof tiles onto the ceiling, it wont do anything to stop the steel work transferring heat to the walls and posts - the best solution for that is to open windows and doors after about 4:30 pm to allow the heat to escape. So doors/windows closed until 4pm, open after that, that way you wont need aircon at night.

[canthai55]

If I was to build a house here, I would cover the outside with 6" styrofoam, cover that with mesh, and stucco over top. Use White roof tiles. Spray the roof tiles in the attic with PU foam to 6" . Powervent the Attic, and ensure roof overhangs stop direct sunlight from striking the building - ala standard Australian practice. Deep well would provide cool water, pumped thru the building to aid in temperature regulation if necessary. Electric baseboard supplemental heat for the cold season. Energy costs would be surprisingly low I believe. Stop the heat from entering, or leaving as the season may be.

[simoh1490]

49 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

If I was to build a house here, I would cover the outside with 6" styrofoam, cover that with mesh, and stucco over top. Use White roof tiles. Spray the roof tiles in the attic with PU foam to 6" . Powervent the Attic, and ensure roof overhangs stop direct sunlight from striking the building - ala standard Australian practice. Deep well would provide cool water, pumped thru the building to aid in temperature regulation if necessary. Electric baseboard supplemental heat for the cold season. Energy costs would be surprisingly low I believe. Stop the heat from entering, or leaving as the season may be.

What would you use for roof beams/joists, nearly all houses use steel at present since wood is not a viable alternative here.

Edited April 15, 2017 by simoh1490

[eyecatcher]

2 hours ago, rumak said:

Might be good to read this previous post.   My experience was it was a waste of money.   I used ceiling with foil

on it this time.   

"ceiling insulation. Worth the cost ?""

I did read your post which was your experience and not relevent to what the OP was asking.

I have given him my experience which is relevent....oh plus my 35years experience in all aspects of building construction....does that Trump yours?

[canthai55]

50 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

What would you use for roof beams/joists, nearly all houses use steel at present since wood is not a viable alternative here.

Steel for sure. Primed on the ground, cut to length, erected and welded, and a second coat sprayed on in situ. Then cover the underside of the roof tiles, including the steel, with the PU spray foam. As it is waterproof, steel will last.

[HaleySabai]

4 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Steel for sure. Primed on the ground, cut to length, erected and welded, and a second coat sprayed on in situ. Then cover the underside of the roof tiles, including the steel, with the PU spray foam. As it is waterproof, steel will last.

Is this the type of foam spray you are referring to?

 

[CharlieH]

17 minutes ago, HaleySabai said:

Is this the type of foam spray you are referring to?

 

What is that snd where did you get it? (Assuming its yours).

[canthai55]

Do not know what that is - plus is it way too thin.

 

This company I found on a Google search - http://www.sprayfoamthailand.com/

Uses PU foam

 

Pic attached shows the thickness you want.

 

Edited April 15, 2017 by canthai55

[Naam]

10 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Spray the roof tiles in the attic with PU foam to 6"

assuming you are willing to spend 1,350 Baht/m² (m² unit price is 450 Baht for 2" thickness).

[HaleySabai]

3 hours ago, CharlieH said:

What is that snd where did you get it? (Assuming its yours).

The photo is from a build in Udon: http://meekings.selfip.biz/nui/Groups-of-photos/New_house/New_house.html   .....I don't know what that particular spray material is either.

 

I've been researching 'roof insulation' options for a near- future build in ChiangMai.

 

 

[uptoyoumyfriend]

the poster  has the right idea. the tiles are not insulated and the ceiling is 1/2 sheetrock. the heat comes down from the top.

i installed some roof vents ,round ones that sit on top of the roof and turn by themselves.i got them from hot/hangdong road ,there is a shop on the south side with huge fans and such.they also referred to me an installer.they helped and were reasonably priced..

the ideal product for the ceiling insulation of that kind of construction would be ground up ,recycled styrofoam packaging that could just be blown in around all the wiring and hangers onto the sheetrock.i am too lazy and old to start a new business though. maybe you know somebody ,preferably thai.

 

[Naam]

35 minutes ago, uptoyoumyfriend said:

the ideal product for the ceiling insulation of that kind of construction would be ground up ,recycled styrofoam packaging that could just be blown in around all the wiring and hangers onto the sheetrock.

that product exists and is quite cheap. unfortunately not available in Thailand

https://www.perlite.org/industry/insulation-perlite.html

 

found a supplier!

 

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=th&u=http://thaiperlite.com/&prev=search

Edited April 15, 2017 by Naam

[Dazinoz]

On 14/4/2017 at 4:33 PM, rumak said:

I have lived in Thailand 20 years, and in many houses.   This is what i believe based on my experience:  The walls of

concrete houses heat up.  The less protected they are from direct sun,  and the hotter the weather is, will determine

just how warm or even hot the walls get.   So you are correct.  The house becomes an "oven" .  That is why when the

A/C is turned off it doesn't take long before all is hot again. My present house gets almost no direct sun but the past few

days were so hot that the walls still heated up !   However most of the year it is cooler than any other house i lived in.

A big help is that my attic space is very well ventilated, so the heat that builds up during the day is not that bad and dissipates quickly when

night arrives.   I once tried "insulating" the ceiling with the insulation that comes in rolls.   One thinks that this will keep

all the hot air from heating up the ceiling (does a little) BUT it also keeps all the hot air in that your "oven" has created.

The old style house (like in Texas for example) had a huge attic fan that would draw heat from the house and out thru

the attic.  There are different types of roof ventilation here (thailand) that will help in that respect (vents , wind turbines,

fans,etc).     Still not much help in daytime when your walls are heating up and stay hot for hours or days in the HOT

season. I even know people that built "double wall" homes....and still had to use air conditioners.  

Conclusion:   try to keep direct heat off the walls.....have VERY well ventilated attic.    That is what has worked best for

me in this my 7th house in Thailand.   BTW:  all wooden houses get very hot during the day but cool down much quicker

as the wood does not retain heat nearly as much as concrete does.

Makes a lot of sense, thanks for the input.

[Dazinoz]

On 14/4/2017 at 8:59 PM, eyecatcher said:

My advice....go to home pro and buy their 6inch extra cool insulation.

It has the best R value of every other roll of insulation anywhere...and thats because its thicker.

They have a sale on atm for another month.

Yes dont do it youtself. I tried it thinking ok diy expert; agile slim not heavy and can save 2000bt.

Its donkey work with electrics spot lights ceiling hangers.

 

I paid a ceiling lad direct 50btm2 the trick is they lay it out with a long stick so no crawling.

 

I bought 16rolls"(2.4m2 roll) and it made a massive difference to our top floor.

 

Pm me if you would like me to pass on my mans numbr.

Actually bought a couple bags the other day for a small job.

 

It is a long way from roof access to end of house and the lounge area has a raised bit (not sure what called and maybe difficult to get around.

 

I am also concerned at that insulation being encapsulated in aluminium foil because of the electrics. The house is relatively new and when i first looked into the roof cavity wiring in conduit, all goto junction boxes, but the the disappointment, all the junction boxes had no lids and cable sticking out of all of them. They all looked taped but if only tape is easy to drag something across it and expose bare wire. This coming in contact with insulation could liven the insulation up.

 

But I will keep in mind about your man. Thanks for the input.

[simoh1490]

Attic ventilation is the key, regardless of which roof type you choose. If you can create a source for cooler air at the eves level and an exhaust point near the peak or ridge, that will allow hot air to be replaced by cooler air which will help cool the roof and prevent hot air entering the living space. Typically that is accomplished here by using vented soffit boards around the eves or roof overhand, they're cheap to buy, easy/cheap enough to install and not unattractive.  If you have gable ends then installing exhaust vents in them is no big deal and again, inexpensive - if you don't have gables you'll need to improvise at the ridge line or use a whirly bird. The absolutely critical part of that exercise is getting the sizing right, square metres of air out must equal square metres of air in, otherwise the ventilation is limited to the smaller  of the two - there's some useful tables on the internet showing how many square fee/metres of exhaust/input are required based on the footprint of your roof. If you do all that you'll find a big improvement of heat that enters your living space from the roof void.

[simoh1490]

5 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

Actually bought a couple bags the other day for a small job.

 

It is a long way from roof access to end of house and the lounge area has a raised bit (not sure what called and maybe difficult to get around.

 

I am also concerned at that insulation being encapsulated in aluminium foil because of the electrics. The house is relatively new and when i first looked into the roof cavity wiring in conduit, all goto junction boxes, but the the disappointment, all the junction boxes had no lids and cable sticking out of all of them. They all looked taped but if only tape is easy to drag something across it and expose bare wire. This coming in contact with insulation could liven the insulation up.

 

But I will keep in mind about your man. Thanks for the input.

We had exactly that problem where the foil backing (which is coated paper) touched a live wire and burned, not for long but long enough for us to want to shore up our electrics first - putting covers on the junction boxes is easy and cheap..

[Dazinoz]

On 15/4/2017 at 6:31 AM, rumak said:

Might be good to read this previous post.   My experience was it was a waste of money.   I used ceiling with foil

on it this time.   

"ceiling insulation. Worth the cost ?""

I have lived in both cold and now hot climates and I don't agree insulation is a waste of money but you have the use the correct insulation. Foil really only stops a bit of radiation and not conduction.

 

I my last rental was a townhouse and I decided to insulate the bedroom. Checked in roof cavity and all timber used (old House). I just bought the 10mm foam with aluminium foil on one side. I didn't thing would be too effective but heap and relatively easy to install. I did the job myself but in no ways profession. Just laid it across the beams and overlapped slightly.

 

The next day around 1 pm I used my laser temperature gun and aimed at ceiling in adjacent room then did the same with the insulated room. About 4 C less. Does not should much but does make a difference to end overall AC usage.

[Dazinoz]

11 hours ago, uptoyoumyfriend said:

the poster  has the right idea. the tiles are not insulated and the ceiling is 1/2 sheetrock. the heat comes down from the top.

i installed some roof vents ,round ones that sit on top of the roof and turn by themselves.i got them from hot/hangdong road ,there is a shop on the south side with huge fans and such.they also referred to me an installer.they helped and were reasonably priced..

the ideal product for the ceiling insulation of that kind of construction would be ground up ,recycled styrofoam packaging that could just be blown in around all the wiring and hangers onto the sheetrock.i am too lazy and old to start a new business though. maybe you know somebody ,preferably thai.

 

I had treated cellulose fibre blown into my last house in Australia. Worked great.

[Dante99]

24 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

Actually bought a couple bags the other day for a small job.

 

It is a long way from roof access to end of house and the lounge area has a raised bit (not sure what called and maybe difficult to get around.

 

I am also concerned at that insulation being encapsulated in aluminium foil because of the electrics. The house is relatively new and when i first looked into the roof cavity wiring in conduit, all goto junction boxes, but the the disappointment, all the junction boxes had no lids and cable sticking out of all of them. They all looked taped but if only tape is easy to drag something across it and expose bare wire. This coming in contact with insulation could liven the insulation up.

 

But I will keep in mind about your man. Thanks for the input.

Get somebody to put lids on the junction boxes.  Small job big benefits.

[Dazinoz]

6 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

Get somebody to put lids on the junction boxes.  Small job big benefits.

I could do it myself being an electrician but as mentioned in my original post it is a suspended ceiling and i am too big and heavy. Secondly I am only renting the house. Owner can get it done. I wanted insulation for my comfort while I am staying here.

[rumak]

Hi... this is the thread I was referring to : 

Ceiling Insulation - Worth the cost? - DIY housing forum ...

25 posts

4 Jun 2016   Worth reading ,    there are many opinions here.  mine was based on my experience (using the insulation).  The problem

i had in more than one house was when it was HOT all day the brick walls would heat up and stay hot into the evening,

even with A/C going.   I guess that keeping the attic heat from infiltrating does help some,  but much more effective was

when i managed to eliminate a great deal of heat from the attic by ventilation and keeping direct sun off the walls as

much as possible.    These were not expensive solutions ....

[HaleySabai]

Those are all good points,Rumak. The heat source is obviously from above but the source of radiate heat is often in 3D. When the temps hit 38c + in CM there is very little natural cool air to circulate around a structure.

Even the correct positioning of windows can have a dramatic effect towards the effort of ventilating a space. Sash windows are well known to have positive effects.

In my next build I'm going to employ Q-Con blocks and a metal roof with attached foil insulation.

 

 

 

[simoh1490]

As already said there are many different sources of heat (sun on roof, sun on walls, sun on windows) and also types of heat (convected, radiated) that have to be dealt with. A cure for one of those heat sources is to use Q-Con insulated block at the top of the walls where they meet the steel, that prevents or slows the transfer of heat from the steel in the roof to the walls and downwards.

[HaleySabai]

Yup.

[Naam]

2 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

As already said there are many different sources of heat (sun on roof, sun on walls, sun on windows) and also types of heat (convected, radiated) that have to be dealt with. A cure for one of those heat sources is to use Q-Con insulated block at the top of the walls where they meet the steel, that prevents or slows the transfer of heat from the steel in the roof to the walls and downwards.

never saw a construction where steel touches any q-con block. the main load bearing of the roof structure is handled by the concrete pillars and a concrete "anchor" which is poured on the last q-con row. those were my instructions to the builder who agreed (it was his first q-con house). but even if there's steel/q-con contact any heat transfer would be negligible.

 

[simoh1490]

22 minutes ago, Naam said:

never saw a construction where steel touches any q-con block. the main load bearing of the roof structure is handled by the concrete pillars and a concrete "anchor" which is poured on the last q-con row. those were my instructions to the builder who agreed (it was his first q-con house). but even if there's steel/q-con contact any heat transfer would be negligible.

 

In my house the steel is connected to the pillars, just as you suggest, in between the pillars is brick infill which is built right up close to the steel spans hence heat transfers from the steel to the brick and spreads downwards through the walls. My suggestion was that Q-Con block replace the top two or so courses of brick to help prevent the heat transfer.