Evaporation or leak?

[ChomDo]

Yes, I feel so too that there isn't really any major problem as long long as I get the basket nearly full by using drain or backwash. And after that when I use pump normally, the pump basket stays nearly full like in the picture. Also, no air bubbles are coming in to the pool from the return.

 

I can't see the text on the pipes fully, but I measured them. The smaller pipes (such as skimmer) are 5 cm diameter and the drain pipe is 6 cm.

 

 

[grollies]

OK, so 1 1/2" & 2" pipe. If you only have one return port available your pump cannot pump enough water back to the pool and that, with the over and under drain pipe airlocked, is causing air to remain in the pump suction. Try giving it a blast to drain via the filter.

 

Your pool is pretty small and I think the pipework and pump are over-sized for the operation. For a 5.7m3 pool a 1" pump and pipe with a couple of the upright Mazuma filters would have been sufficient.

Edited November 14, 2017 by grollies

[carlyai]

Yeah grollies is right again.

I was thinking, after looking at your setup pics. and your google pic. that you could get an airlock as shown in the google pics.
Just another theory, probably wrong again, but when the pump stops "bang" the water from your main drain hits a brick wall then sends a wave back down the main drain pipe until the pressure of pool water stops the leak into the drain therefore leaving that air gap.

Soooo don't know how plumbing the main drain under the pump inlet makes my theory stack up, but if it worked like that before....seems like an easy fix...next year.

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[grollies]

The image you posted.

 

Any suction pipe should be a minimum length of 5 x suction pipe diameter before any bends, fittings, etc. Putting an elbow like that on the suction is a no no.

 

 

[ChomDo]

2 hours ago, grollies said:

The image you posted.

 

Any suction pipe should be a minimum length of 5 x suction pipe diameter before any bends, fittings, etc. Putting an elbow like that on the suction is a no no.

 

 

Yes clearly the so called "pool guy" who came to fix the leaking return didn't know about this. I also confirmed from him that can one return port handle the pressure to pump enough water to the pool and he said no problem and that one return is also enough for a tiny pool.

 

I mean clearly he did all the pipes wrong and that is causing a little bit of air to stay in the pump case (as I showed in the picture), but I just want to confirm that if it's not harmful for my system or pipes then I will just use it first at least until next year? Just had enough of all this fixing for now.

 

This morning when I turned the pump on I noticed that there was a quite large flat stone looking like smooth granite stuck in the return port. I could just about pull it out (resulting in more air again in the pump basket that was just primed yesterday). There has never been anything coming out of the upper return pipe until now (that it is the only return in use now). I really don't even want to start thinking of any additional problems but any idea what this can be? The sand in the filter doesn't look like that does it, and even if it did it shouldn't come out of the return?  I'll add a picture of the stone below.

 

Thanks again for answering all these ongoing questions!

[carlyai]

Yes clearly the so called "pool guy" who came to fix the leaking return didn't know about this. I also confirmed from him that can one return port handle the pressure to pump enough water to the pool and he said no problem and that one return is also enough for a tiny pool.
 
I mean clearly he did all the pipes wrong and that is causing a little bit of air to stay in the pump case (as I showed in the picture), but I just want to confirm that if it's not harmful for my system or pipes then I will just use it first at least until next year? Just had enough of all this fixing for now.
 
This morning when I turned the pump on I noticed that there was a quite large flat stone looking like smooth granite stuck in the return port. I could just about pull it out (resulting in more air again in the pump basket that was just primed yesterday). There has never been anything coming out of the upper return pipe until now (that it is the only return in use now). I really don't even want to start thinking of any additional problems but any idea what this can be? The sand in the filter doesn't look like that does it, and even if it did it shouldn't come out of the return?  I'll add a picture of the stone below.
 
Thanks again for answering all these ongoing questions!

I'd say it's a bit of concrete or concrete covered in sealer. But could be wrong.

As we talked about before and grollies posts, if there is plenty of water covering the impeller then should be OK. Better to have a bit of air than a heart attach.

As I also said before, I replaced an impeller in a pump the builders used when building the house.
The performance of the pump had dropped after builders abuse, running sand through it, no water etc. Took the pump to one of those places they work out on the sidewalk, a Mitsubishi pump agent. He didn't want to replace it and changed the capacitor etc, then eventually did what I asked. The new impeller looked exactly like the one we removed to the naked eye, but when installed there was a huge difference. I wanted the impeller and housing changed, but he wouldn't come at that so I gave up . Still working well.

These good pumps with metal impellers (hear the new chinese ones are plasticy), are very robust I think.

Every now and again when you come outside to kick the dog, have a look at your pipe set up and plan what to do next year. I'd probably start by putting that straight bit of pipe into the pump as per the first pic.

What did you think of my theory about the air bubble?

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[carlyai]

Hi Chomdo

Regarding your valves and the posts suggesting you replace them.

I had to do some grout repair, grrrrr, and had to drain the pool water below the 3 skimmers.

I was still running my pump chlorinator etc to keep the ch level up but sucking through the main drain only. I had that valve opened and the rest shut.

So drained pool 2 days ago, repair yesterday, and clean up restart today.

What I did notice last night when I ran the pump etc there was a popping sound coming from the skimmer nearest the house, and when I looked in the pump glass top their was some air present where before there wasn't.

My valves are supposed to be good quality pool valves, but seems air is being sucked through one.

So your less robust valves could be causing a problem.



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[ChomDo]

On 11/14/2017 at 7:28 PM, carlyai said:

Just another theory, probably wrong again, but when the pump stops "bang" the water from your main drain hits a brick wall then sends a wave back down the main drain pipe until the pressure of pool water stops the leak into the drain therefore leaving that air gap.

Soooo don't know how plumbing the main drain under the pump inlet makes my theory stack up, but if it worked like that before....seems like an easy fix...next year.

Thanks for this idea. There's so many theories of what it could be that it's getting confusing. I was running the pump with the skimmer 100 % open and main drain pipe fully closed before, so in that case the theory wouldn't work I guess. Just now a few days ago I started to use skimmer 75 % and main drain 25 % or could be about 50/50 (not so easy to say exactly with these valves). 

 

I guess it's just the wrong set up of the two new pipes that are causing the problem and the air lock. But like you guys said if it's not anything harmful for the system then I should forget about it for now.

 

By the way the stone that came out of the return yesterday was a flat peace of black granite not concrete like in the beginning. Made me worried at first, but I guess better not think much about it. 

[ChomDo]

4 hours ago, carlyai said:

Hi Chomdo

Regarding your valves and the posts suggesting you replace them.

I had to do some grout repair, grrrrr, and had to drain the pool water below the 3 skimmers.

I was still running my pump chlorinator etc to keep the ch level up but sucking through the main drain only. I had that valve opened and the rest shut.

So drained pool 2 days ago, repair yesterday, and clean up restart today.

What I did notice last night when I ran the pump etc there was a popping sound coming from the skimmer nearest the house, and when I looked in the pump glass top their was some air present where before there wasn't.

My valves are supposed to be good quality pool valves, but seems air is being sucked through one.

So your less robust valves could be causing a problem.



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That's a nice looking pool you have there and tidy piping. For my pool the area we had for the pool and all pipework was 2x3.5m, so that's why it was such a challenge to get everything to fit in that little space (resulting in a very messy pipe setup).

 

I'm sure my valves could also be letting air in or may do so in the future. Before the change of the two new pipes there was no air in the pump basket, so just seems like the vales wouldn't be the problem at this point.

 

I know I should have many things changed (starting with better valves) but the problem with my pipework is that nobody can really fit down there to fix anything. I can just about reach down to open the valves but I can't fit in the wooden box myself. Not the greatest setup for maintenance I know but due to the space restrictions it kind of had to be done this way. To do any kind of bigger work I would have to take apart the wooden structure around the pipework, so probably something for next year.

 

 

[ChomDo]

Just as I thought I could start using the pool without problems now the return is shooting big concrete chunks and just got blocked. I was vacuuming the pool and noticed with my goggles that there's a stone stuck in the return hole. I got a screw driver and was able to crack it off. Then after that a bigger one blocked the hole and I had to stop the pump. It's far too big to come out of the inlet hole. 

 

Anyway now I need to get the return inlet off to be able to flush all the stones (where ever they are coming from). Is there a way to take the middle part of the inlet only or do I need to get the whole thing off the pool wall? I've never taken the return inlets off and have no idea how it comes off anyway. Is it a screw on or does the middle part have a click on system? 

 

My return inlet is about like the one in the picture.

Edited November 16, 2017 by ChomDo

[ChomDo]

Go it screwed off already. Now the hole should be big enough for that stone to flush out.

[ChomDo]

Wow now this is interesting. The big chunk of concrete flushed out and at the same time my pump started to prime perfectly. So I guess two problems were solved! 

 

Now I'm not sure did the pump start to prime because all the stones blocking the return pipe came out or because I removed the inlet eyeball to allow the water to be pumped into the pool trough a much larger hole?

 

I guess there's no point for me to put the eyeball back because I only have one return and I felt like the water pressure was too high to come out of that tiny hole anyway.

 

The filter's pressure gauge was shoving constantly 75 before I removed the eyeball and the stone. Now it's running at about 25. 

[grollies]

On 15/11/2017 at 10:27 AM, ChomDo said:

 

That's really good news mate, the additional flow has cleared all the air from the system and now you've removed the eyeball port you've flushed out all the construction crap.

 

Proves that the precommissioning flushing of pipework is worth the effort.

 

[ChomDo]

51 minutes ago, grollies said:

That's really good news mate, the additional flow has cleared all the air from the system and now you've removed the eyeball port you've flushed out all the construction crap.

 

Proves that the precommissioning flushing of pipework is worth the effort.

 

Yes it's great! Problem seems to be solved for now. Also, I like the water flow more without the eyeball on the inlet. Now the water flows into the pool smoothly without creating the kind of a strong current like it did with the eyeball in place. The pool is only 3 m long, so having just one return close to the surface with a tiny eyeball hole clearly created too much pressure and water movement.

 

Looks good now, so I won't be putting the eyeball back in.  

[carlyai]

That's a nice looking pool you have there and tidy piping. For my pool the area we had for the pool and all pipework was 2x3.5m, so that's why it was such a challenge to get everything to fit in that little space (resulting in a very messy pipe setup).
 
I'm sure my valves could also be letting air in or may do so in the future. Before the change of the two new pipes there was no air in the pump basket, so just seems like the vales wouldn't be the problem at this point.
 
I know I should have many things changed (starting with better valves) but the problem with my pipework is that nobody can really fit down there to fix anything. I can just about reach down to open the valves but I can't fit in the wooden box myself. Not the greatest setup for maintenance I know but due to the space restrictions it kind of had to be done this way. To do any kind of bigger work I would have to take apart the wooden structure around the pipework, so probably something for next year.
 
 

That's why you married a small Thai wife, so she can fit into the small areas. [emoji38]

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[ChomDo]

Everything seems to be working fine with the skimmer and no air in the pump basket. Of course I do have a next issue and I'll post it here rather than start a new thread.

 

Now the return is shooting sand out. After I took the eyeball out last week, I thought I would really clear the pipes and vacuum after I see that nothing is coming out anymore. For a few days now it seemed like the amount of sand under the return (on the pool floor) was not increasing. Today I vacuumed the pool and as soon as I had finished and cleaned the pump basket and turned on the pump again, the return shot out a handful of sand again. What could be causing this to happen all the time? Also, what I don't get is that why does it happen after I've stopped vacuuming and cleaned the pump basket. I mean while I was vacuuming no sand was coming into the pool, so how come right after I finish and turn the pump on again?

[Naam]

3 hours ago, ChomDo said:

I mean while I was vacuuming no sand was coming into the pool, so how come right after I finish and turn the pump on again?

check whether your ghost house has a regular supply of green Fanta and sticky rice with prik nam pla.

[carlyai]

check whether your ghost house has a regular supply of green Fanta and sticky rice with prik nam pla.

Your English is better than your Lao. Good one. Have to catch up on our next visit to Patts. [emoji38]

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[carlyai]

Bit Red wined at the moment, but after filtering do you backwash until your clear glass is clear, and then rinse?

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[Naam]

14 hours ago, carlyai said:

Have to catch up on our next visit to Patts.

if i find out that you've been to Pattaya without visiting me i will arrange for a dozen ugly old women to pee in your pool.

 

i pmed my phone number.