companies not in my name?

[bazza73]

Just when I think falangs in Thailand have learned the lesson we can't own property in Thailand, along comes another one.

Why this obsession? I've been renting a condo in Thailand for 8 years now, no problem, no angst. If I was kicked out tomorrow, there are so many landlords who would love to have a reliable tenant.

[ed strong]

8 hours ago, bazza73 said:

Just when I think falangs in Thailand have learned the lesson we can't own property in Thailand, along comes another one.

Why this obsession? I've been renting a condo in Thailand for 8 years now, no problem, no angst. If I was kicked out tomorrow, there are so many landlords who would love to have a reliable tenant.

Its not an obsession just thought it wouldn't loose money....I was never planning on living in them just rent it out for a few years then maybe sell it.

 

I was wrongly advised by people who are directly involved in that business.

 

Just seems like a scam like many others conducted against the falangs out there....

 

Big smiles and couldn't do more for you attitude when really they are just planning on fleecing you.

 

Edited April 18, 2017 by ed strong

[bazza73]

1 hour ago, ed strong said:

Its not an obsession just thought it wouldn't loose money....I was never planning on living in them just rent it out for a few years then maybe sell it.

 

I was wrongly advised by people who are directly involved in that business.

 

Just seems like a scam like many others conducted against the falangs out there....

 

Big smiles and couldn't do more for you attitude when really they are just planning on fleecing you.

 

I know hindsight isn't going to help you. However, I do all my investing back in Australia where I know the ropes.

I would never invest money here. Property, stocks, whatever. Even with gold, they try to shave the edges.

Lesson learned, good luck in future.

[DekDaeng]

19 hours ago, ed strong said:

 

Hi thanks for replies, I paid it to the lawyer / accountant in Hua hin.

 

I presumed i would receive details / seal within a few days. It was only after i returned to the UK weeks later that i kept asking for company details, memorandum etc. At that point the accountant / lawyer just ignored me and would not reply to or answer calls.

 

I returned a few weeks later to hua hin and got a new lawyer to check whos name was on the companies and then i found out no mention of my name!

 

I did not transfer houses to these companies.

 

Can i sue the lawyer? She wont give me money back as ive asked. she just asks me i want to shut down my companies!?

(I think shes expected money to pay to shut them down!)

 

Is this normal practice? I see a poster below mentions this is normal and then they transfer to my name after!?

 

Yes guys there should have been more due dilliginace on my part but unfortunately i got caught up in the whole thai hospitality thing.

 

 

"I did not transfer houses to these companies."

 

TGFT!

 

Would you get any help from the Thai Bar Association? 

[mrboats]

How can he get any help from the Thai Bar Association

as quoted in previous posts the lawyer actually did nothing wrong

the OP didn't ask the right questions and then became confused...can't blame the lawyer on this one

its Ed Strong who doesn't know the procedure 

[Khun Jean]

Would it not be very obvious for authorities to determine that the company was formed just to let a foreigner have 'possesion' of the house(land) when soon after formation the director is changed. (Rhetorical)

 

Why why why do so many foreigners fall for this? Is the lure of having property in Thailand that huge so that the desire can not be controlled?

 

[mrboats]

No it's not that obvious....the property is transferred at the land office into the company

then after a few weeks the foreigners name is put on the company register at the Department Business Development 

'completely seperate offices

in the OP case there's no problem because he was going to rent out the properties

a completely legitimate business as long as he declared the income for the company

[Khun Jean]

When it is a legitimate business then there is no need to first have it on Thai names only. I know that lawyers want to make it 'easy', but that is just for their own sake, not the clients.

 

[Destiny1990]

21 minutes ago, Khun Jean said:

Would it not be very obvious for authorities to determine that the company was formed just to let a foreigner have 'possesion' of the house(land) when soon after formation the director is changed. (Rhetorical)

 

Why why why do so many foreigners fall for this? Is the lure of having property in Thailand that huge so that the desire can not be controlled?

 

Lawyers accountants should stop offering  these not fully legal ownership structures to foreigners who are unaware about the negative consequences. 

[trogers]

1 minute ago, Destiny1990 said:

Lawyers accountants should stop offering  these not fully legal ownership structures to foreigners who are unaware about the negative consequences. 

The word 'integrity' does not exist in the Thai vocabulary!

 

Thus, there will always be suckers of professionals...

 

 

[mrboats]

There is nothing illegal about what the OP was trying to do

he was opening legitimate company's to purchase houses which would be rented out to derive income

theres nothing illegal about that and there are no negative consequences if it's all done right

thats why you open a company right....to do business....there's no law that says company's cannot own property

the law also says a foreigner can be 49% shareholder

there are thousands and thousands of companies that have foreign directors....nothing illegal about that

the headline of this post just tells me the OP had no idea what he's doing...so he done the appropriate thing and walked away

again don't blame the lawyer....they are not at fault

simple equation....don't enter into anything you know nothing about

[trogers]

6 minutes ago, mrboats said:

There is nothing illegal about what the OP was trying to do

he was opening legitimate company's to purchase houses which would be rented out to derive income

theres nothing illegal about that and there are no negative consequences if it's all done right

thats why you open a company right....to do business....there's no law that says company's cannot own property

the law also says a foreigner can be 49% shareholder

there are thousands and thousands of companies that have foreign directors....nothing illegal about that

the headline of this post just tells me the OP had no idea what he's doing...so he done the appropriate thing and walked away

again don't blame the lawyer....they are not at fault

simple equation....don't enter into anything you know nothing about

It's illegal to use Thai nominees to hold that 51% as they are not actual shareholders putting out money for their share of capital.

[Destiny1990]

12 minutes ago, mrboats said:

There is nothing illegal about what the OP was trying to do

he was opening legitimate company's to purchase houses which would be rented out to derive income

theres nothing illegal about that and there are no negative consequences if it's all done right

thats why you open a company right....to do business....there's no law that says company's cannot own property

the law also says a foreigner can be 49% shareholder

there are thousands and thousands of companies that have foreign directors....nothing illegal about that

the headline of this post just tells me the OP had no idea what he's doing...so he done the appropriate thing and walked away

again don't blame the lawyer....they are not at fault

simple equation....don't enter into anything you know nothing about

How about these lawyers accountants advicing foreigners for company owning land and house structures who will not do the rental business?

[Khun Jean]

Even worse 'accountability' does not exists. A lawyer can advice anything but it is the one who sings the documents who is responsible. If all you know about the law is what your lawyer says then you are in for some trouble.

 

And a company is only legitimate if the 51% Thai shareholders put in 51% of the capitol.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Khun Jean

[Destiny1990]

38 minutes ago, mrboats said:

There is nothing illegal about what the OP was trying to do

he was opening legitimate company's to purchase houses which would be rented out to derive income

theres nothing illegal about that and there are no negative consequences if it's all done right

thats why you open a company right....to do business....there's no law that says company's cannot own property

the law also says a foreigner can be 49% shareholder

there are thousands and thousands of companies that have foreign directors....nothing illegal about that

the headline of this post just tells me the OP had no idea what he's doing...so he done the appropriate thing and walked away

again don't blame the lawyer....they are not at fault

simple equation....don't enter into anything you know nothing about

Seems u are some of the ones knowing nothing about it..

[mrboats]

Destiny 1990....if you got nothing decent to contribute better you stay quite....what a silly comment

ive done this company thing 6 times....only the first time did I use a lawyer

i soon learnt why pay lawyers hugh  sums of money for something I can do myself

so after doing everything myself 5 times your comment is really silly

you just cannot get your head around the fact that some people want to do this 

Kuhn Jean....the 51% Thai shareholders don't need to phisically put up the money

you can do loan documents that they still owe the company the money

i think this is all to complicated for you guys to get your head around so just keep renting and let us smart guys derive our income

[ed strong]

3 hours ago, mrboats said:

How can he get any help from the Thai Bar Association

as quoted in previous posts the lawyer actually did nothing wrong

the OP didn't ask the right questions and then became confused...can't blame the lawyer on this one

its Ed Strong who doesn't know the procedure 

Once i set up the companies i had to return to the UK over the subsequent weeks i asked the lawyer for details of the companies.

This is where i was met with silence, she would not answer me or reply!

 

I then asked the property agent if she knew any details about my companies!? She replied she knows nothing / zero!

 

So i then found another lawyer to check on my two companies and she informed me that the above agent was indeed director and her family were shareholders ( Hold on 3 weeks ago she knew nothing about this or had any details )

 

That is the procedure is it?

 

Yes i stand no chance in court but i have all the above chat recorded and stored.

 

I have no doubt they would have let me rent out these houses and take the rent money however when i came to sell that's when the problems would arise.

[mrboats]

Better you forget about all this Ed and move on....your out of your depth here trying to understand all this

lawyers and accountants never volunteer any information....they only answer your questions if it suits them

maybe they saw a wood duck like yourself and decided you were easy prey

[ed strong]

3 minutes ago, mrboats said:

Better you forget about all this Ed and move on....your out of your depth here trying to understand all this

lawyers and accountants never volunteer any information....they only answer your questions if it suits them

maybe they saw a wood duck like yourself and decided you were easy prey

Thanks for your comments.....yes they must have seen me as that.

 

 

 

 

[Destiny1990]

42 minutes ago, mrboats said:

Destiny 1990....if you got nothing decent to contribute better you stay quite....what a silly comment

ive done this company thing 6 times....only the first time did I use a lawyer

i soon learnt why pay lawyers hugh  sums of money for something I can do myself

so after doing everything myself 5 times your comment is really silly

you just cannot get your head around the fact that some people want to do this 

Kuhn Jean....the 51% Thai shareholders don't need to phisically put up the money

you can do loan documents that they still owe the company the money

i think this is all to complicated for you guys to get your head around so just keep renting and let us smart guys derive our income

Well maybe my reply bit over the top sorry about that but for you to say that his lawyer did all top notch for him while he sofar lots 2 homes and his fake thai company?has no thai capitol invested and nothing is in his name is far from top notch also?

[Khun Jean]

MrBoats (as so many others) is someone who listened to a 'reputable' lawyer and has some experience with it. To hear anything other then what has been told is very hard. Especially when a lot of money is at stake. The stage of denial can be very long.

Accepting the truth is hard, but can help to restructure before the risk gets bigger.

For instance the loans to the other shareholders are another big 'alert' for authorities.

That they do not enforce the laws strictly is a separate issue. When it will be enforced is anyone's guess. It can happen any day.

So far for the ones that did get caught, the Thais are still very lenient as they get a year to correct the situation.

Basically it is a calculated risk that can offer good rewards, but even after many years without problems the risks do not diminish.

 

Myself i am married over 15 years with a Thai woman and have two dual nationality children that are almost adults. This offers other options for buying land and houses, which still bears a risk only of another kind. When i was not married i found the company construction to convoluted and bearing to much risk. I choose to buy freehold condo's instead. As it is now i still feel the same about it. Even the reduction of how many shareholders are needed did not change any of the other risks.

 

 

 

[davidst01]

If you can afford it go to bkk and get a lawyer from a big tier 1 firm. 

 

The tin pot lawyers you are dealing with in HH are probably all pissing in each others pockets. 

 

Your a man who likes to take risks by doing what you have done. You only have yourself to blame. I would never do what you have done. 

 

good luck

[Destiny1990]

14 minutes ago, davidst01 said:

If you can afford it go to bkk and get a lawyer from a big tier 1 firm. 

 

The tin pot lawyers you are dealing with in HH are probably all pissing in each others pockets. 

 

Your a man who likes to take risks by doing what you have done. You only have yourself to blame. I would never do what you have done. 

 

good luck

There are more to blame don't u think so?

[ed strong]

33 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

There are more to blame don't u think so?

They should not be selling these companies for house purchases regardless of the way it is done.

 

We've all experienced and been confused by thai law. It certainly wouldnt surprise me if it all came tumbling down at some point.

 

It was suggested that i should've set the companies up as 60% / 40% rather than the normal 51% / 49%.

 

[Destiny1990]

18 minutes ago, ed strong said:

They should not be selling these companies for house purchases regardless of the way it is done.

 

We've all experienced and been confused by thai law. It certainly wouldnt surprise me if it all came tumbling down at some point.

 

It was suggested that i should've set the companies up as 60% / 40% rather than the normal 51% / 49%.

 

30 years lease should have been advised by your lawyer for u.Then most likely u would not have bought it at all so they come up with company structures.

[Khun Jean]

The Thai law is actually very simple. A foreigner is not to allowed to own land in Thailand. That's it.

Everyone is allowed to lease for a maximum of 30 years, extensions are possible but only with the original owner.

So what would happen after your 30 year lease is over and you want to extend it. First you hope that the other party of the contract is still alive, if not then be prepared for getting a new contract. second you hope that the other party did not sell the land or gave it to his children. Many other scenarios whereby the original owner is not the current owner (debt, bank repossession etc) and any extra clause in a contract has to be renegotiated. If by some miracle the original owner is still the owner after 30 years you then have to sit around the table and negotiate a fair price, he will be bound by the contract to give you the extension but against what price. If in the original contract it is mentioned the second 30 years price will be zero or some other price far under the market value, then that clause is considered invalid. Just be prepared. Say for instance you rented the first 30 years for 5 million baht, then use that 30 years to save at least 15-20 million to be able to pay for the second 30 year.

 

The simple conclusion is, buy a freehold condo, get a usufruct for live (not from your spouse), get a lease for 30 years (not from your spouse) or just rent short term. Any other 'simple' construction is 99% illegal and will cause problems in the future. If you do real business there are some limited options. If you flip property or buy and sell within a few years you might get away with it. But don't do it with your retirement funds as the chance that it will be gone (when you most need it) is rather high.

 

 

[Langsuan Man]

The one consistent thing in this never ending argument at Thai Visa about the legality of owning property via a company is that the problems that are always discussed are the problems with the accountants or lawyers and their shenanigans 

 

Have yet to see a post from anyone telling a horror story of the Thai government taking away someones property owned by a legally formed company that files it's annual reports and pays it's taxes 

 

Don't try and blame the system for the problems of one poster who has admitted he failed to do due diligence or use his problems as a justification for the pronouncements that this form of ownership is illegal 

[trogers]

22 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

The one consistent thing in this never ending argument at Thai Visa about the legality of owning property via a company is that the problems that are always discussed are the problems with the accountants or lawyers and their shenanigans 

 

Have yet to see a post from anyone telling a horror story of the Thai government taking away someones property owned by a legally formed company that files it's annual reports and pays it's taxes 

 

Don't try and blame the system for the problems of one poster who has admitted he failed to do due diligence or use his problems as a justification for the pronouncements that this form of ownership is illegal 

Neither have I come across any post from an investor who lost his pants in the stock market. Losers don't brag...

[Langsuan Man]

10 minutes ago, trogers said:

Neither have I come across any post from an investor who lost his pants in the stock market. Losers don't brag...

 

Apples and Oranges

 

There is no question about buying and selling stocks here in Thailand but there is controversy about land ownership via a company

[trogers]

1 hour ago, Langsuan Man said:

 

Apples and Oranges

 

There is no question about buying and selling stocks here in Thailand but there is controversy about land ownership via a company

Nothing controversial about the rights of foreigners to own land in Thailand.

 

Try declaring your land ownership through this means or that openly to the Land dept...and see if the results become controversial...

 

Investment is all about risk and returns, whether in the stock market or acquiring land.

Edited April 20, 2017 by trogers