New hitachi pump not always running when showering

[hobz]

Hi guys,

 

I have a hitachi pump installed just a month ago.

 

It starts running when I turn on most faucets.. Except the showers.

 

When i start showering I can't hear the pump starting,, But if i flush the toilet at the same time then the pump starts and keeps running for the duration of the shower.. 

 

What could be the reason for this? And how can it be fixed? Does the pump have some kind of pressure sensitivity setting that can be set to be more sensitive so that it starts for the shower?

 

When the pump starts (after flushing the toilet) the shower pressure increases, as expected and wanted *smile*

 

Thanks

Edited April 19, 2017 by hobz

[VocalNeal]

It has a pressure bladder that stores a certain amount of water at pressure. When you turn on a tap or flush the toilet that water is used and the pressure drops. The pump them kicks in and will keep pumping until the pressure reaches a preset limit then it stops.

 

If you leave the shower on long enough the pump will start. If you have an adjustable head use a different shower setting or buy a shower head with a slightly better flow rate.

 

If you are handy you can adjust "slightly" the pressure switch on the water pump to increase the pressure.

 

Or simply flush the toilet every time you take a shower. (my choice)

 

 

 

[hobz]

38 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

It has a pressure bladder that stores a certain amount of water at pressure. When you turn on a tap or flush the toilet that water is used and the pressure drops. The pump them kicks in and will keep pumping until the pressure reaches a preset limit then it stops.

 

If you leave the shower on long enough the pump will start. If you have an adjustable head use a different shower setting or buy a shower head with a slightly better flow rate.

 

If you are handy you can adjust "slightly" the pressure switch on the water pump to increase the pressure.

 

Or simply flush the toilet every time you take a shower. (my choice)

 

 

 

Thanks bro, i'm doing the flush every time now,,,, But I will contact the pump seller and see if they can come and adjust the pressure switch on the water pump :D

[Crossy]

Are you pumping from a tank, well or (naughty) direct from the mains supply?

 

[sappersrest]

UK advert.

Lots of info on the net, about this.

Interesting article /advert, it seems you can now pump from the mains providing certain conditions are met???https://www.emergencyplumber.uk.com/plumbing/mains-water-booster-pump/

Edited April 19, 2017 by sappersrest

[hobz]

3 hours ago, Arjen said:

Should maybe write: Are you pumping from a tank, well or (dangerous) direct from the mains supply?

Pumping from a tank. The water pressure is "ok" even when the pump is not running,,, is this part of why the pump doesn't always run?

[RichCor]

1 hour ago, hobz said:

Pumping from a tank. The water pressure is "ok" even when the pump is not running,,, is this part of why the pump doesn't always run?

 

Can you take a photo of your pump/tank setup and post it here?

 

As mentioned by @VocalNeal, if the pump has bladder tank incorporated then it can store and deliver ~15-20L of water at pressure before the pump needs to activate to recharge this reserve. 

 

EDIT:

I would think you wouldn't be complaining about a pump that was too quiet, but would post about turning on your shower only to have it run to a trickle then blasting you with water (which is what might happen if your newly installed pump wasn't working correctly).  So, can you describe what water issue your experiencing?

Edited April 19, 2017 by RichCor

[Moonlover]

7 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

It has a pressure bladder that stores a certain amount of water at pressure. When you turn on a tap or flush the toilet that water is used and the pressure drops. The pump them kicks in and will keep pumping until the pressure reaches a preset limit then it stops.

 

If you leave the shower on long enough the pump will start. If you have an adjustable head use a different shower setting or buy a shower head with a slightly better flow rate.

 

If you are handy you can adjust "slightly" the pressure switch on the water pump to increase the pressure.

 

Or simply flush the toilet every time you take a shower. (my choice)

 

 

 

This is quite a good appraisal of the situation.

 

But am I correct in assessing that, once the pump has started, the pressure is adequate for your needs? The *smile* suggests that I am correct, If so then this purely a matter of 'flow rate', not pressure and I doubt whether there would be any benefit from trying to adjust it.

 

Here's a simple test. Without any other outlets open whist you shower, does the shower maintain an adequate flow, without any noticeable cycling? If it passes that test, then there is nothing wrong with the pressure settings.

 

If it does cycle, but the rest of the house is ok, then it is still more likely to be flow rate at the shower, not pressure.

 

This does sound to me simply a matter of low flow rate at the shower, causing a delay until the pump kicks in. This, by way is quite common.

 

My advise would be, either be patient until you get full flow, (after all, what's the rush?) or follow the advise in VocalNeal's last paragraph..Carry on flushing the loo.

 

Read the motto at the bottom of my posts. 

Edited April 19, 2017 by Moonlover

[hobz]

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

This is quite a good appraisal of the situation.

 

But am I correct in assessing that, once the pump has started, the pressure is adequate for your needs? The *smile* suggests that I am correct, If so then this purely a matter of 'flow rate', not pressure and I doubt whether there would be any benefit from trying to adjust it.

 

Here's a simple test. Without any other outlets open whist you shower, does the shower maintain an adequate flow, without any noticeable cycling? If it passes that test, then there is nothing wrong with the pressure settings.

 

If it does cycle, but the rest of the house is ok, then it is still more likely to be flow rate at the shower, not pressure.

 

This does sound to me simply a matter of low flow rate at the shower, causing a delay until the pump kicks in. This, by way is quite common.

 

My advise would be, either be patient until you get full flow, (after all, what's the rush?) or follow the advise in VocalNeal's last paragraph..Carry on flushing the loo.

 

Read the motto at the bottom of my posts. 

No noticable cycling. But it takes forever for the pump to start unless i open another faucet or flush the loo.

 

I just did a test and let the shower run with all other faucets closed. The shower has been running for 5 minutes now and the pump has not started yet.. 

As soon as i open another faucet the pump starts immidiately.

 

But dont get me wrong, some faucets in the garden behave the same, i sometimes have to open two garden faucets just to get the pump running.

 

Another noteworthy thing is that once i open another faucet and the pump starts running i can immidiately close the other faucet and the pump keeps running.

 

There's  a noticable difference in how much water is coming from the shower as soon as the pump starts running.

 

Will take photos of pump/tank tomorrow as its too dark now.

[hobz]

2 hours ago, RichCor said:

 

Can you take a photo of your pump/tank setup and post it here?

 

As mentioned by @VocalNeal, if the pump has bladder tank incorporated then it can store and deliver ~15-20L of water at pressure before the pump needs to activate to recharge this reserve. 

 

EDIT:

I would think you wouldn't be complaining about a pump that was too quiet, but would post about turning on your shower only to have it run to a trickle then blasting you with water (which is what might happen if your newly installed pump wasn't working correctly).  So, can you describe what water issue your experiencing?

The issue is that i need to flush the loo to make the pump start running. Once the pump runs the shower experience goes from "ok" to "great". I would prefer to have it be great without having to flush the toilet.... And waiting is not an option, now 10 minutes the shower has been on without the pump starting.

[Artisi]

check the flow from your shower (without the pump running)  - time how long to fill a bucket or something of known volume and convert it to litre / sec or minute. Then recheck with the pump  running. post results .

 

Supply tank - where is it situated at ground level or elevated.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Artisi

[Moonlover]

13 minutes ago, Artisi said:

check the flow from your shower (without the pump running)  - time how long to fill a bucket or something of known volume and convert it to litre / sec or minute. Then recheck with the pump  running. post results .

 

Supply tank - where is it situated at ground level or elevated.

And another important question. What was the situation before the pump was replaced?

 

Did you replace the pump like-for-like? Did you have similar issues before the pump was replaced?

 

[RichCor]

1 hour ago, hobz said:

The issue is that i need to flush the loo to make the pump start running. Once the pump runs the shower experience goes from "ok" to "great". I would prefer to have it be great without having to flush the toilet.... And waiting is not an option, now 10 minutes the shower has been on without the pump starting.

 

10 minutes???  

Can you post the Type and Model of your HITACHI pump?

This is where photos of your setup would really help to see how it's plumbed.

 

Normally, an inline pump is always activated when water runs through it (to pressurize the water lines directly, or refill a small bladder tank or smaller accumulator.  5 or 10 minutes seems a long time to be running on a bladder tank reserve.

 

I'm wondering if your pump has a bypass connection that's currently OPEN -- allowing enough water from the tank via 'gravity feed' to give your water lines a low pressure feed, but when you open multiple faucets or flush the toilet then the line pressure drops enough for the pump to kick in.

[BEVUP]

?1 - is the shower running through a wall heater - if so punch out or get rid of all the very fine filters

* people here have said they never have good pressure here through them & i can tell you why (it's because of the reduced flow through the heater even with the filters punched out as i have no problem with my other upstairs shower )

Also check the above post

Also could be clogged with PVC cuttings after fitting new attachments

 

[hobz]

Thanks for all the replies folks! Really helpful!

 

Sorry to keep you waiting for a photo of the setup, will post tomorrow.

 

A couple of things that i left out. This is a new house. But we installed the pump and tank after the house was built.

There was no pump or tank before.

 

I think the government water supply is split so that it goes directly to the tank and in to the house. So, if the pressure from the government is good, then the pump does not run i guess?

 

I have one garden faucet that is not connected to the pump but draws directly from the government. I can use this to gauge government water pressure. Its a new moo baan and not all houses are occupied, so it could explain the relativily high water pressure.

 

As for the shower being clogged  / having filters. Its actually not only the shower that this happens to but also my garden faucet connected to a 5/8 garden hose didnt start the pump when i washed the car today... But usually the garden faucets start the pump.

 

Is it possible that the government pressure creates enough pressure so that my pump doesnt trigger?

 

As for checking the water flow from shower when the pumpnis running or not. Trust me, there's a significant difference in the water flow once the pump starts. Like i said before, it goes from ok/good to great.

 

 

[hobz]

Everything is at ground level

[hobz]

As for "bypass line", not sure. But the government water is split into the tank and into the house directly.. 

 

Will hopefully be clear tomorrow as i post image.. Will try a photo with flash now.

[hobz]

Images 

 

 

[hobz]

The first image is showing the water going out of the pump, going up in to the tank and coming from the government.

 

The second image shows the pump drawing water from the tank.

 

 

 

[hobz]

Hmm, i will try to switch off the government water supply and see if the pump starts running then!

[sipi]

Yep you have worked it out.

Town pressure is stopping the pump from starting until the pressure drops enough, then the pump starts.

[hobz]

17 minutes ago, sipi said:

Yep you have worked it out.

Town pressure is stopping the pump from starting until the pressure drops enough, then the pump starts.

Is it possible to make the pump start anyway? Make it more sensitive to pressure drops? 

Because even though town pressure may be good, the pump pressure is better. 

[sipi]

1 hour ago, hobz said:

Is it possible to make the pump start anyway? Make it more sensitive to pressure drops? 

Because even though town pressure may be good, the pump pressure is better. 

As mentioned in an earlier post, you can wind the screw out on the pressure switch half a turn so it kicks in earlier.

Or get someone else to.

 

Edit.. That system looks more like a back-up tank and pump so you still have water if the gov supply is isolated. Still be better to run it occasionally. 

I would try adjusting it but others might disagree. 

Not a big job, if you can't find anyone turn the power off to the pump and remove the cover and post some pix. We will help you locate the adjuster.

Edited April 19, 2017 by sipi

[sipi]

I am surprised there is no isolation valve on the town supply after it branches off to the tank fill valve. Or is that one tucked under the brass check valve? Hard to tell from the pix.

If it is, close it and just run off the tank leaving the supply to the tank open. No other adjustments required. 

Edit. Closer look, can't see a valve other than what looks like a service valve. If there was a valve on the line with the barrel union you could shut it and run off the tank.

Back to adjusting the pump.

Edited April 19, 2017 by sipi

[Moonlover]

I think you've just answered your own question Hobz. You said that you have both town supply and pumped water coming into the house. If that's correct, then that will be the cause of your shower problem.

The flow to the shower will be quite low and the line pressure will not fall sufficiently for the pump to kick in. When you flush the loo the pressure falls that little bit more and on comes the pump.

The fix should be simple. Is there as stopcock in the town supply? If there is, knock it off. That should fix it. If there isn't, have one installed. It should only be switched on when you have a power, or a pump failure.

Good with your new home.

[RichCor]

 

Your house line is getting water from both the Government Supply -and- the Water Tank/Pump,

 

If you ADD an On/Off Valve either before or after the Brass-colored Check Valve then it would stop the Government Water Supply being the primary pressure unless you open the valve to allow it to bypass the tank/pump in case of power outages.

 

Right now you don't have any control over this (other than the toilet pre-flush).

Edited April 19, 2017 by RichCor

[sipi]

Not a lot of room for a valve unless you can squeeze one in on the vertical piece before the check valve.

[Crossy]

If you're going to go "manual" you can probably get a gate valve of the same dimensions as the non-return and simply replace the non-return with the gate (which you keep closed unless you need city pressure).

 

I note a convenient service fitting so it should be an easy job with no cutting required.

[hobz]

11 hours ago, sipi said:

I am surprised there is no isolation valve on the town supply after it branches off to the tank fill valve. Or is that one tucked under the brass check valve? Hard to tell from the pix.

If it is, close it and just run off the tank leaving the supply to the tank open. No other adjustments required. 

Edit. Closer look, can't see a valve other than what looks like a service valve. If there was a valve on the line with the barrel union you could shut it and run off the tank.

Back to adjusting the pump.

Thousand thanks for your comments! Truly helpful!

 

Yeah, sadly there is only one valve, and it seems to close the output from the pump into the house... is that called a "service valve"?

 

Is it safe to adjust the pump? Does it void the warranty (not that they could probably prove it right?)? 

Edited April 20, 2017 by hobz

[hobz]

11 hours ago, RichCor said:

 

Your house line is getting water from both the Government Supply -and- the Water Tank/Pump,

 

If you ADD an On/Off Valve either before or after the Brass-colored Check Valve then it would stop the Government Water Supply being the primary pressure unless you open the valve to allow it to bypass the tank/pump in case of power outages.

 

Right now you don't have any control over this (other than the toilet pre-flush).

Yes, there's a missing valve there,,, I wonder if I can talk with the people that installed the system and ask them if it's standard to not have a valve there.. I feel the answer will be a price for installing a valve there lol.