North Korea says it is ready to strike U.S. aircraft carrier

[maewang99]

this morning's NYT..

 

North Korea can make a new nuke every 6 to 7 ****weeks****

 

and they ****do**** already have solid fuel rockets...

but not nukes that fit on them... yet.

 

 

Edited April 25, 2017 by maewang99

[Rob13]

1 hour ago, Canada said:

He needs to be eliminated. The sooner the better. There will be collateral damage. There will be more if the world waits till later. 

 

OTOH, Saddam was crazy, was eliminated and then things got worse. Unless the world is prepared to follow through,; a simple elimination will just make a bad situation worse.

[boomerangutang]

11 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

I hope the US leaves N. Korea alone; you just know that the US will spend trillions on rebuilding N.Korea after an altercation while the roads, bridges, and inner cities of the US rot. Let Japan and South Korea do the dirty work; they get the benefits.

That's a good point.  For essentially every war the US has fought in the past 150 years, whether it's won or lost or drawn,  the US quickly follows up with massive support for the other side.  Trump and his intelligence-challenged buddies aren't expected to fathom that bit of history.  Trump will think, "no, this time it will be different.  Now, with me in charge, every war we get into we will win quickly and get out.  Just wait and see.  You'll see I'm right.  I'm always right."

 

Reporter asks; "And what about reparations, if the US wins?"

 

Trump: "There is no doubt the US will win, and we will win quickly.  As far as helping to rebuild a ruined country.  No.  Why should US taxpayers pay for that?  The other side lost.  They're inferior, we're superior.   Anyhow, I can't talk about that now.  Just know that everything will be better with me as president."

 

9 hours ago, Basil B said:

He will miss and get floored with a drop kick...

It is what the Americans want, any attempt to attack any American ship and the Yanks will let fly with hundreds of Cruse missiles aimed at every military, atomic, missile, and power production establishment in North Korea.

That's a similar tune that's been sung prior to each time, in the past 60 yrs that the US has jumped into a war.  US generals always think superior (and superior numbers of) weapons will quickly win the war.  And just as often, the US has been wrong. 

 

1 hour ago, Canada said:

This problem with Kim is similar to drug addiction-it's not going away or getting better on it's own. 
He needs to be eliminated. The sooner the better. There will be collateral damage. There will be more if the world waits till later. 

So, if your neighborhood had a drug addict, you would recommend going up to him and knocking his head off with a baseball bat?   I'd recommend conversing with the addict, and finding out whether there are any ways to mitigate his bad habits.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

4 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

That's a good point.  For essentially every war the US has fought in the past 150 years, whether it's won or lost or drawn,  the US quickly follows up with massive support for the other side.  Trump and his intelligence-challenged buddies aren't expected to fathom that bit of history.  Trump will think, "no, this time it will be different.  Now, with me in charge, every war we get into we will win quickly and get out.  Just wait and see.  You'll see I'm right.  I'm always right."

 

Reporter asks; "And what about reparations, if the US wins?"

 

Trump: "There is no doubt the US will win, and we will win quickly.  As far as helping to rebuild a ruined country.  No.  Why should US taxpayers pay for that?  The other side lost.  They're inferior, we're superior.   Anyhow, I can't talk about that now.  Just know that everything will be better with me as president."

 

That's a similar tune that's been sung prior to each time, in the past 60 yrs that the US has jumped into a war.  US generals always think superior (and superior numbers of) weapons will quickly win the war.  And just as often, the US has been wrong. 

 

So, if your neighborhood had a drug addict, you would recommend going up to him and knocking his head off with a baseball bat?   I'd recommend conversing with the addict, and finding out whether there are any ways to mitigate his bad habits.

And where would you converse with this Drug addict? Drug addicts will agree to anything you say,just to get you to feel sorry for them. Once you have shown them you are a caring, helpful person, and invited them into your home, then they will proceed to rob you of anything they can get their hands on just to sell for the price of their next fix.

 You cannot compare a drug addict with the North Korean idiot,

He is a paranoid, weak,psychotic leader of a country of which 99.95%  would have him dead if possible.

 can you remember his remark on the day of his take over from his lunatic father. "my people must love me so much, that if guns are fired at me, they must jump in front of me like a shield, to protect me from death"

This child would risk the whole of his country and its population to prove that he is capable of taking on the might of the capitalist, arrogant, decadent USA.

He would see everybody around him destroyed just to prove this point, and he is insane enough to do it.The time for talking is over.

[Canada]

No. Drug addicts change too late or never. You isolate yourself from the drug addict to protect yourself and others. Help him change then if you can. Impose sanctions to motivate him. Eventually kick him right out of your life to stop the damage. 

[Canada]

27 minutes ago, Rob13 said:

 

OTOH, Saddam was crazy, was eliminated and then things got worse. Unless the world is prepared to follow through,; a simple elimination will just make a bad situation worse.

There are some very credible news sources reporting that confirm his threats. Have you seen the interview with his foreign minister? The EVIDENCE is in. He needs to be eliminated. 

Very different from Saddam. 

[Rob13]

6 minutes ago, Canada said:

Have you seen the interview with his foreign minister? The EVIDENCE is in. He needs to be eliminated. 

 

Maybe, maybe not. Historical evidence says he's a child looking for attention. Trump can send Brad Pitt or Michael Jordan over there for a weekend and Mr Kim will be all smiles for another 6 months or so.

 

[Canada]

34 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

 

 

So, if your neighborhood had a drug addict, you would recommend going up to him and knocking his head off with a baseball bat?   I'd recommend conversing with the addict, and finding out whether there are any ways to mitigate his bad habits.

If he's running around harming or threatening harm? Absolutely. Knock his head off. 

I've not compared Kim to a drug addict. Read my comparison carefully-and get the point of it. 

[Canada]

1 minute ago, Rob13 said:

 

Maybe, maybe not. Historical evidence says he's a child looking for attention. Trump can send Brad Pitt or Michael Jordan over there for a weekend and Mr Kim will be all smiles for another 6 months or so.

 

Is that some sort of an argument? or point? 

Over and out. 

[baboon]

12 minutes ago, Canada said:

There are some very credible news sources reporting that confirm his threats. Have you seen the interview with his foreign minister? The EVIDENCE is in. He needs to be eliminated. 

Very different from Saddam. 

The evidence is in? Present some, then, not your own opinions passed off as facts.

 

If you want to kill people so badly, you go and do it. Show the world how brave you are and set a moral example.

[Rob13]

Just now, Canada said:

Is that some sort of an argument? or point? 

Over and out. 

 

The pattern of these NK escalations is, NK makes a bunch of noise; someone from the US goes over and has a talk with them...(Jimmy Carter,Bill Clinton,Bill Richardson etc)...after the visit NK eases up on the rhetoric.  

 

These days there's a new tough talking pres so NK has to start the game all over again. 

[Canada]

3 minutes ago, baboon said:

The evidence is in? Present some, then, not your own opinions passed off as facts.

 

If you want to kill people so badly, you go and do it. Show the world how brave you are and set a moral example.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39623882

[boomerangutang]

18 minutes ago, Canada said:

There are some very credible news sources reporting that confirm his threats. Have you seen the interview with his foreign minister? The EVIDENCE is in. He needs to be eliminated. Very different from Saddam. 

                Kim's foreign minister is, like all his generals, a robotron who says exactly what he's directed to say.   I wouldn't want to incinerate 20 million people - based on the utterances of one robotron.

 

                 If I thought it was possible to have a surgical strike to wipe out Kim and 40 of his top generals, then yes, I'd be in favor of it.  It so happens, Kim knows that's what the US wants to do, so he and his top brass are hiding.  There are probably at least 2 body-doubles of Kim.   The US tried for decades to wipe out Castro - on a small island, 103 miles from Florida, and didn't even scratch him.

 

                 War is always a bigger mess than the brass think, when planning to commence.  Except for Serbia or Grenada (or Falklands for the Brits) it's never a quick in & out - with hoped-for results.  

 

                  If Trump gets the US in a war with N.Korea, it will likely be a long ugly slog.  It may wind up being a tit-for-tat, like Israeli/Palestinian problem,  .....lasting for decades.     Already, the Korean war (started in 1950 and never finalized), has stretched for nearly 70 years - though thankfully, for most of that time, there have been few deaths or bombs dropped.

 

If Trump resumes that war, it may be another 70 years .....until 2087 (?) until it flares up yet again.

 

Note:  when I earlier mentioned a comparison to drug addiction, I was responding to another poster who broached that comparison.

 

[baboon]

13 minutes ago, Canada said:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39623882

What about it?

[dick dasterdly]

20 minutes ago, Rob13 said:

 

Maybe, maybe not. Historical evidence says he's a child looking for attention. Trump can send Brad Pitt or Michael Jordan over there for a weekend and Mr Kim will be all smiles for another 6 months or so.

 

 You may be right about sending in some 'celebrity' to massage his ego and make him feel important!

[baboon]

1 minute ago, boomerangutang said:

                Kim's foreign minister is, like all his generals, a robotron who says exactly what he's directed to say.   I wouldn't want to incinerate 20 million people - based on the utterances of one robotron.

 

                 If I thought it was possible to have a surgical strike to wipe out Kim and 40 of his top generals, then yes, I'd be in favor of it.  It so happens, Kim knows that's what the US wants to do, so he and his top brass are hiding.  There are probably at least 2 body-doubles of Kim.   The US tried for decades to wipe out Castro - on a small island, 103 miles from Florida, and didn't even scratch him.

 

                 War is always a bigger mess than the brass think, when planning to commence.  Except for Serbia or Grenada (or Falklands for the Brits) it's never a quick in & out - with hoped-for results.  

 

                  If Trump gets the US in a war with N.Korea, it will likely be a long ugly slog.  It may wind up being a tit-for-tat, like Israeli/Palestinian problem,  .....lasting for decades.     Already, the Korean war (started in 1950 and never finalized), has stretched for nearly 70 years - though thankfully, for most of that time, there have been few deaths or bombs dropped.

 

If Trump resumes that war, it may be another 70 years .....until 2087 (?) until it flares up yet again.

 

Note:  when I earlier mentioned a comparison to drug addiction, I was responding to another poster who broached that comparison.

 

"War is always a bigger mess than the brass think, when planning to commence.  Except for Serbia or Grenada (or Falklands for the Brits) it's never a quick in & out - with hoped-for results."

 

Yet it's the easiest thing in the world when you are behind a keyboard, far away, and your own life not at stake..

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

                If Trump gets the US in a war with N.Korea, it will likely be a long ugly slog.  It may wind up being a tit-for-tat, like Israeli/Palestinian problem,  .....lasting for decades.     Already, the Korean war (started in 1950 and never finalized), has stretched for nearly 70 years - though thankfully, for most of that time, there have been few deaths or bombs dropped.

I'm afraid the war will escalate quickly to nuclear war by both sides. Furthermore when the nuclear weapons have been used in this war, those will be used in other wars as well. We would have 2 years to live. 

[boomerangutang]

Speaking of conducting battle attacks from a keyboard: 

 

Cyber warriors are showing many of the same psychic problems as people who are on the front lines.....

 

npr.org/2017/04/24/525413427/for-drone-pilots-warfare-may-be-remote-but-the-trauma-is-real

[klikster]

On 4/24/2017 at 8:51 AM, boomerangutang said:

              Good points.  Of course it's a sticky situation.  There are no easy solutions.  Probably the best is to be reasonably friendly with N.Korea (cultural, sports, biz, tourist exchanges) while conversing.  

 

                Concurrently, the US and all other nuke countries should be actively trying to lower the # of nukes worldwide.  Not easy at all, but sometimes the most worthwhile goals are difficult to achieve.  

 

                       I proposed earlier:  Each nuke country could be encouraged to lower their arsenal by 50% each year for the next 8 years.  At the 8 year mark, all remaining nukes - destroyed.  Any country/entity not complying would be sanctioned heavily.   

 

I would hope for better solutions than many of the ill-conceived "ideas" encouraged here on TV. 

[klikster]

On 4/24/2017 at 9:46 AM, ddavidovsky said:

The US and S. Korea have caused this by their continuous provocation. They just won't stop threatening N. Korea, so of course N. Korea builds up defensive weapons. They not out to invade anyone or build an empire - their leaders just want to survive and they know S. Korea and the US are itching to obliterate them.

How can you possibly know what Kim wants?

How can you possibly know the military plans of S.K. and the U.S.?

 

Do you and the neighbor kids run around in the woods with toy guns much?

[klikster]

23 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

   Do people like me know more about int'l affairs than salaried State Dept people?   Do we know more than Bannon and Trump and Kushner?   Maybe yes or maybe no.   Hint:  I knew Russia had gone into Ukraine, at a time when Trump didn't know.   

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[transam]

On 4/24/2017 at 9:46 AM, ddavidovsky said:

The US and S. Korea have caused this by their continuous provocation. They just won't stop threatening N. Korea, so of course N. Korea builds up defensive weapons. They not out to invade anyone or build an empire - their leaders just want to survive and they know S. Korea and the US are itching to obliterate them.

 

Subconscious human instinct is at play here on a deeper level than the politicians understand. They just want to obliterate N. Korea because it's a freak show. They don't understand why they feel that way, but they just do and they will. They use their own insecurity as an excuse to bring about conflict.

 

Some people want to fight it out. There are always people like that. But especially now that nukes are involved, I say be patient and leave them be. Time will bring about a natural change. In the meantime the N. Koreans have simply got the government they deserve.

Utter nonsense.........Hitler was left alone and look what happened....If NK was not involved with nuclear stuff nobody could give a toss what they were doing....But they ARE involved with nuclear stuff....Now even China is worried about the nut job having nuke stuff.....

 

Answer this, there has been a cease fire for half a century and it's been OK until NK went down the nuke route...So who has made the problem...?

[Khon Kaen Dave]

5 minutes ago, transam said:

Utter nonsense.........Hitler was left alone and look what happened....If NK was not involved with nuclear stuff nobody could give a toss what they were doing....But they ARE involved with nuclear stuff....Now even China is worried about the nut job having nuke stuff.....

 

Answer this, there has been a cease fire for half a century and it's been OK until NK went down the nuke route...So who has made the problem...?

Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.(from the bible, somewhere)

[dick dasterdly]

7 minutes ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.(from the bible, somewhere)

Yes, that was used a while ago to kill people - once the population was 'kicked' into a state of fervour  about witches.

 

Similarly the catholic church killed 'heretics' a long time ago.

 

But we're talking about the present day - and it appears that its still easy to invoke the same emotions in people .

 

Not that I have any 'solutions', but its depressing when so many people start demanding war (even 'nukes!') as the 'right' response - rather than even trying to find a better solution.

[transam]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

Yes, that was used a while ago to kill people - once the population was 'kicked' into a state of fervour  about witches.

 

Similarly the catholic church killed 'heretics' a long time ago.

 

But we're talking about the present day - and it appears that its still easy to invoke the same emotions in people .

 

Not that I have any 'solutions', but its depressing when so many people start demanding war (even 'nukes!') as the 'right' response - rather than even trying to find a better solution.

Weeeell, most first world countries have the nuke deterrent, sort has kept us safe for decades, but the NK ruler has been threatening folk that really don't give a stuff about a country that wants to walk around looking cool with a rifle whilst their country starves......

 

A line must be drawn somewhere, nukes are not to be trifled with, especially by a nutter..

 

If China and the West put the boy in his place we can all relax and get on with life, hopefully NK folk can do the same....

 

 

[Thaidream]

The US and South Koreans have plenty of intelligence regarding the North's capabilities and what it would take to defeat them.  

Unless North Korea actually attacks the Americans or Koreans- there will be no American First Strike.  However, if Kim fires an intercontinental ballistic missile toward Japan or America- the Americans may see this as a First strike against America and respond.

Right now- Kim is playing 'nuclear poker'. He has the long range missile- if he tests it and the test is a failure- he has tipped his hand. If he fires it and it goes to far- he has also tipped his hand and can expect a retaliatory strike.  His best move is to do nothing except talk.

Trump cannot make a decision to strike on his own. He doesn't have any experience or sense but he will listen to his top commanders and I have the feeling that the US Military Command does not want a war as they know the loss of life will be huge for everyone and Seoul will be destroyed .

What Kim wants is his survival without fear. He will negotiate and it is up to China to broker the negotiations. China definitely wants no war as they know the North will be destroyed and millions of Koreans will pour over the Chinese border with the South Koreans; Japan and the Americans sitting as Chinese neighbors.

The best move would be for the North to give up its missile program; freeze its nuclear program; allow international inspections and have China guarantee its survival. America can remove the majority of its forces from South Korea;  South Korea and the US officially end the Korean War and South and North Korea recognize each other. Capitalism will do what it always does and eventually North Korea will go the way of China- Socialism with an economic face. Everybody lives long lives.

[ddavidovsky]

1 hour ago, klikster said:

How can you possibly know what Kim wants?

How can you possibly know the military plans of S.K. and the U.S.?

 

Do you and the neighbor kids run around in the woods with toy guns much?

Sociology. And an understanding of human nature. And a completely objective, dispassionate perspective. And empirical evidence. And the fact that I have been too often been proved right in such matters.

 

I don't understand your last comment.

 

This situation is escalating. N. Korea will have another nuclear test at some point - if they don't, they lose face. When they do, Trump will respond militarily - because if he doesn't, he will lose face. This is the position that each side has got itself into. Children.

 

The bigger side has to back down first. That's easy. Stop threatening them. But the US won't stop threatening them because  they are operating on the instinctive level that freaks have to be stomped on. Dolts.

 

I'm tired of explaining things to the world.

[Thaidream]

The North may well do another nuclear test. Trump will respond but not militarily- He will turn to China and possibly Russia- sanctions will be tightened and if China and Russia do not comply- Trump will go after their banks.When Kim can't get his imported Brandy and Cognac and he is unable to give his military some luxuries to keep them loyal- he will back down. As much as I dislike Trump- he does not make these decisions without massive input from the American military and Intelligence community,

No one wants war- not even Trump.

[sujoop]

Trump is approaching 100 days and his main accomplishment is achieving historic low approval ratings.  He got a bump after the previous wag-the-dog outings in Syria and Afghanistan. Now he's actually taunting/goading North Korea, why?

 

Angry Trump lashes out over approval rating
The president continues to rant about new numbers that show he is approaching his 100th day with the lowest approval rating in more than 70 years.'Totally wrong'
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-fumes-supposedly-fake-polls-giving-dismal-approval-rating-131804187.html

 

Trump taunts North Korea
Trump told a reception of conservative journalists that Kim wasn't the strong leader he likes to portray himself as.
"I'm not so sure he's so strong like he says he is, I'm not so sure at all," Trump told the reception
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/25/asia/north-korea-donald-trump-kim-senate/

[Thaidream]

Trump is playing nuclear poker but he may not realize it- but the military does and so does his intelligence apparatus. He needs to be careful because he is dealing with an Asian and he better understand what loss of face means. Trump might want to keep his comments private from now on. His mouth keeps getting him in trouble.