Arctic thaw quickening threatens trillion-dollar costs - report

[anon4546543]

13 minutes ago, ballzafire said:

Climate cycles are simply linked to solar cycles. CO2 increase/decrease is a CONSEQUENCE of cyclicality -- NOT the driver. CO2 has NEVER been a driver of climate change.

Natural processes far, FAR outweigh anything produced by humans. Human-produced CO2, therefore, is inconsequential.

You and others are reacting to the brainwashing you've received from the incessant drumbeat of the globalist-controlled mainstream media, and all the bought-and-paid-for corrupt scientists and politicians, who see fit to enslave you with a global carbon tax. If that's not a problem for you, then welcome to your Brave New World, son...

Period.

Watch the video from the link I posted -- and get educated...

No need to highlight, I am still able to read without all uppercase posts. No need to call me son, I am not your son, nor want to be.

 Not brainwashed either, deniers always claim this after not reading the consensus of 95% of all scientists from all aspects of science. You know, the same guys that built water and electrical infrastructure, gave you refridgerators, gas power and infrastructure, nuclear power, roads, buildings air conditioners. You know, scientists that are slightly more intelligent than you or maybe even me. 

[ExpatOilWorker]

8 hours ago, spiderorchid said:

No need to highlight, I am still able to read without all uppercase posts. No need to call me son, I am not your son, nor want to be.

 Not brainwashed either, deniers always claim this after not reading the consensus of 95% of all scientists from all aspects of science. You know, the same guys that built water and electrical infrastructure, gave you refridgerators, gas power and infrastructure, nuclear power, roads, buildings air conditioners. You know, scientists that are slightly more intelligent than you or maybe even me. 

 

The same kind of scientist that told us in the 1970' that we are heading for a new ice age?

The earth was also flat and center of the universe according to....well you get it.

 

I think it is great that some people want to go green, but where I put a foot down is when they try to impose their moral on me or anybody else for that matter.

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

9 hours ago, spiderorchid said:

You want to bet the lives of your children on this

The best think I can do for my children is earn a lot of money and give them a rich well balanced education. All of which cost a lot of energy and add massive amount of CO2 to the atmosphere.

 

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

 

The same kind of scientist that told us in the 1970' that we are heading for a new ice age?

The earth was also flat and center of the universe according to....well you get it.

 

I think it is great that some people want to go green, but where I put a foot down is when they try to impose their moral on me or anybody else for that matter.

 

There is no end to humanity's stupidity, perhaps it is good that we destroy ourselves, we don't deserve this planet.

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

The best think I can do for my children is earn a lot of money and give them a rich well balanced education. All of which cost a lot of energy and add massive amount of CO2 to the atmosphere.

 

After which their money wont do them much good. CO2 warming is now starting to release Methane gas in the tundra and some parts of the oceans which is far more dangerous than CO2, the run away spiral could come quicker than we think.

[ExpatOilWorker]

Just now, soalbundy said:

After which their money wont do them much good. CO2 warming is now starting to release Methane gas in the tundra and some parts of the oceans which is far more dangerous than CO2, the run away spiral could come quicker than we think.

 

It is scary what information you can make people swallow raw.

 

The methane gas or gas hydrates in the tundra regions are millions of years old. There have been many periods 2-5 C warmer than today and the methane gas stayed where it is. 

The polar bears also seem to stroll through these warmer periods in the past and are still around today.

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

 

It is scary what information you can make people swallow raw.

 

The methane gas or gas hydrates in the tundra regions are millions of years old. There have been many periods 2-5 C warmer than today and the methane gas stayed where it is. 

The polar bears also seem to stroll through these warmer periods in the past and are still around today.

but it now isn't 'staying where it was' it has been measured escaping from the ground in Russia and scientists have also measure methane gas from the bubbles arising from the ocean floor.

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

but it now isn't 'staying where it was' it has been measured escaping from the ground in Russia and scientists have also measure methane gas from the bubbles arising from the ocean floor.

 

Right, now is of course totally different........but why? Is it getting warmer in a different way?

 

Don't lap up any garbage they serve you.

The was majority of oil and gas always slowly and are still seeping out of the ground. Most we never notice, but some is visible as small oil ponds or gas bubbles.

The 2 trillion bbls of oil we produce now is just the tiny fraction that was trapped in faults under ground. 

[ExpatOilWorker]

53 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

After which their money wont do them much good. CO2 warming is now starting to release Methane gas in the tundra and some parts of the oceans which is far more dangerous than CO2, the run away spiral could come quicker than we think.

Since everybody is just wildly guessing on the future, then I predict my daughter will graduate from Swindleton University. She will then invent a small gadget Z-Zero 2 (Z02), that can extract CO2 from thin air. It will of course soon outsell Smart phones and after a couple of years her upstart company buys Apple.

 

Unfortunately around 2050 people start realizing the big CO2 scam and sales start dwindle. You can fool some sometimes, but you can't fool everybody all the time.

 

[habanero]

On 4/25/2017 at 3:10 PM, Fulwell53 said:

Donald will go down in history as the president who caused a huge acceleration in the negative aspects of global warming and climate change.

Sure blame Trump and the U.S.  while countries like China are burning coal as fast as they can dig it out of the ground..........

[ilostmypassword]

22 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Since everybody is just wildly guessing on the future, then I predict my daughter will graduate from Swindleton University. She will then invent a small gadget Z-Zero 2 (Z02), that can extract CO2 from thin air. It will of course soon outsell Smart phones and after a couple of years her upstart company buys Apple.

 

Unfortunately around 2050 people start realizing the big CO2 scam and sales start dwindle. You can fool some sometimes, but you can't fool everybody all the time.

 

People who actually understand how science works will be interested to know that major studies predicting climate change have largely been correct or overly conservative in making predictions. Those who just make things up, probably won't be as nearly interested.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/01/opinion/answering-bret-stephens-on-climate-science.html

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, habanero said:

Sure blame Trump and the U.S.  while countries like China are burning coal as fast as they can dig it out of the ground..........

China is pretty much the leader of developing clean technologies. They are developing and building solar and nuclear technologies.

They also have a good reason for it - the huge amount of pollution, which comes from oil and coal.

 

I really hope to see if they are able to produce both Thorium and fusion powerplants. Meanwhile traditional Uranium based nuclear energy is our best hope to fight the pollution.  

[ExpatOilWorker]

On 5/5/2560 at 0:16 PM, oilinki said:

China is pretty much the leader of developing clean technologies. They are developing and building solar and nuclear technologies.

They also have a good reason for it - the huge amount of pollution, which comes from oil and coal.

 

I really hope to see if they are able to produce both Thorium and fusion powerplants. Meanwhile traditional Uranium based nuclear energy is our best hope to fight the pollution.  

 

You want to live next to a Chinese nuclear plant? Good luck you you then.

 

The Chinese are also using their clean nuclear power to get more oil and gas out of the ground, adding a few trillion tons of CO2 to the equation.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/01/15/business/chinese-oil-nuclear-companies-develop-floating-atomic-platforms-offshore-drilling/#.WQ1_e2nyjIU  

[Thunder26]

I believe the activity of the Sun has much more influence than human activities. If the Sun enters into dormant state, then the temperatures will plummet. The dormant state of the Sun has started and will continue until 2030s. The spring of 2017 in Europe has been one of the coldest in many regions since they've been recording . Many crops have been compromised by late frost.  Some regions have received such amounts of snow in late April that it hasn't happened since they've been recording weather data. Take this, it snowed in Moscow and Kyiv on May 10th which rarely happens. I mean hardly ever happens! The amount of snow that fell in Klin (Moscow suburbs) on May 10th is unique so far.

I don't believe that humans have the power to impact the climate. We are too small. The Sun is the one that controls everything.

Google the news about the cold spring in Europe and the damages it caused and still causing.

Below is the video that shows unprecedented snowfall in Klin (a town in Moscow suburbs) on May 10th.

Do you still believe in global warming caused by human activities???  

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

3 minutes ago, Thunder26 said:

I believe the activity of the Sun has much more influence than human activities. If the Sun enters into dormant state, then the temperatures will plummet. The dormant state of the Sun has started and will continue until 2030s. The spring of 2017 in Europe has been one of the coldest in many regions since they've been recording . Many crops have been compromised by late frost.  Some regions have received such amounts of snow in late April that it hasn't happened since they've been recording weather data. Take this, it snowed in Moscow and Kyiv on May 10th which rarely happens. I mean hardly ever happens! The amount of snow that fell in Klin (Moscow suburbs) on May 10th is unique so far.

I don't believe that humans have the power to impact the climate. We are too small. The Sun is the one that controls everything.

Google the news about the cold spring in Europe and the damages it caused and still causing.

Below is the video that shows unprecedented snowfall in Klin (a town in Moscow suburbs) on May 10th.

Do you still believe in global warming caused by human activities???  

 

 

Untrue.  The solar cycle runs for 11 years. During the recent increase in warming the sun's activity was actually on the decrease. As climate scientist repeatedly point out, there did used to be a  positive correlation between the suns activity and temperature increase. But somewhere between 1975 and 1980 some new factor swamped that correlation

https://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming.htm

 

In addition to which, just because one region of the globe is cooler than usual, that doesn't mean that the rest of the globe is following suit.

https://climate.copernicus.eu/resources/data-analysis/average-surface-air-temperature-analysis/monthly-maps/march-2017

[Thunder26]

It's true that the global temperatures are still going up. But we cannot deny the record cold spring in Europe this year. I'm not talking about March which was warm. I'm talking about April and actual temperatures that are very low in many regions for May. When it comes to the Sun there is a lot to learn about. Sun does not always follow the 11 year cycle.

[ilostmypassword]

5 minutes ago, Thunder26 said:

It's true that the global temperatures are still going up. But we cannot deny the record cold spring in Europe this year. I'm not talking about March which was warm. I'm talking about April and actual temperatures that are very low in many regions for May. When it comes to the Sun there is a lot to learn about. Sun does not always follow the 11 year cycle.

But why would you ascribe Europe's cold spring to solar activity since the sun would have a global effect, not just a local one? 

And while it's true that the periodicity varies, what data do you have to support your assertion that this solar cycle, which began in 2008 will last into the 2030's.  The longest solar cycle has been determined to have lasted not quite 15 years.over the past 11,000 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cycle

 

[Thunder26]

I guess oceans play an important role as well. It takes a while for oceans to warm up or cool down. As soon as the ocean temperatures go down, then the global temperatures will follow. 

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, Thunder26 said:

I guess oceans play an important role as well. It takes a while for oceans to warm up or cool down. As soon as the ocean temperatures go down, then the global temperatures will follow. 

Why would the oceans' temperatures be going down?

[rickudon]

One cold month does not mean an end to global warming. 12 months consecutively is something to think about; we had over 24 months of record temperatures up to March this year. Weather systems has seen Easterly winds predominate over the last month, they bring cold winds from Siberia.

[anon4546543]

Data seems to suggest that overall, temperatures since the 1850's has been increasing at an alarming rate. But there will always be those that believe man never landed on the moon, the world is flat, twin tower bombings is a CIA conspiracy.

Scientists, you know, the guys that discovered how to control electricity, found vaccines, the television, computers and mobile phones, weather scientists, oceanographers - 95% of all of them are warning of the damage caused by recorded increased global warming. They also suggest the causes and possible mitigation. But nah, it is another conspiracy theory, these guys know nothing. All 95% of them are deluded. 

[RickBradford]

^^

As regards the silly "95%" thing. The original survey of 10,257 "earth scientists" asked just 2 main questions:
 

Quote

 

Q1: “When compared with pre-1800s levels, do you think that mean global temperatures have generally risen, fallen, or remained relatively constant?”

 

Q2: “Do you think human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures?”

 

Nothing to do with damage, danger, or indeed anything to do with CO2 for that matter.

 

Furthermore, the survey team did not use all the answers they received. In fact, they threw out 97% of the answers, and used less than 80 in total.

 

Q1 was agreed to by 76/79 (96.2%) respondents

 

Q2 was agreed to by 75/77 (97.4%).

 

It goes to show that when you throw out 97% of the answers, you can get a 97% consensus for your proposition

 

And this is the weak piece of pseudo-science which has been generating gigatonnes of alarmist hot air for almost a decade now.

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

31 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

^^

As regards the silly "95%" thing. The original survey of 10,257 "earth scientists" asked just 2 main questions:
 

Nothing to do with damage, danger, or indeed anything to do with CO2 for that matter.

 

Furthermore, the survey team did not use all the answers they received. In fact, they threw out 97% of the answers, and used less than 80 in total.

 

Q1 was agreed to by 76/79 (96.2%) respondents

 

Q2 was agreed to by 75/77 (97.4%).

 

It goes to show that when you throw out 97% of the answers, you can get a 97% consensus for your proposition

 

And this is the weak piece of pseudo-science which has been generating gigatonnes of alarmist hot air for almost a decade now.

 

 

This is, of course, utterly and absolutely untrue.  I don't know where you got that information from but it's revealing that you don't reveal the source. There have actually been 7 studies to determine what the scientific consensus is.  The results range from 91 percent to 100 percent. Here's the result of a huge study:

 A Skeptical Science peer-reviewed survey of all (over 12,000) peer-reviewed abstracts on the subject 'global climate change' and 'global warming' published between 1991 and 2011 (Cook et al. 2013) found that over 97% of the papers taking a position on the subject agreed with the consensus position that humans are causing global warming.  In a second phase of the project, the scientist authors were emailed and rated over 2,000 of their own papers.  Once again, over 97% of the papers taking a position on the cause of global warming agreed that humans are causing it.

https://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus-intermediate.htm

 

 

[Ahab]

5 hours ago, spiderorchid said:

"95% of all of them are warning of the damage caused by recorded increased global warming. They also suggest the causes and possible mitigation. But nah, it is another conspiracy theory, these guys know nothing. All 95% of them are deluded. "

Could you please provide a list of the 95% of scientists that support man made global warming? A list of the 5% that oppose would also be helpful.

[Ahab]

97% of the papers written on global warming showing support that it is caused by man is not the same thing as the same percentage of scientists sharing that belief. 

 

If only one of the papers in the three percent are correct then what the other 97% "believe" doesn't matter. Science is not about how many people you can convince that your theory is correct. It is about knowledge and finding out what is going on. Over reliance on models and modeling a very complex global climate where many of the input variables are either unknown or poorly known is foolish to say the least.

 

Anyone that says the climate models for 50 or 100 years from now are spot on has absolutely no idea how a complex model works.

[Ahab]

 

 

[soalbundy]

36 minutes ago, Ahab said:

97% of the papers written on global warming showing support that it is caused by man is not the same thing as the same percentage of scientists sharing that belief. 

 

If only one of the papers in the three percent are correct then what the other 97% "believe" doesn't matter. Science is not about how many people you can convince that your theory is correct. It is about knowledge and finding out what is going on. Over reliance on models and modeling a very complex global climate where many of the input variables are either unknown or poorly known is foolish to say the least.

 

Anyone that says the climate models for 50 or 100 years from now are spot on has absolutely no idea how a complex model works.

It is probably better to err on the side of being too cautious than to experience an 'OMG, too late' moment.

[maewang99]

11 hours ago, Thunder26 said:

It's true that the global temperatures are still going up. But we cannot deny the record cold spring in Europe this year. I'm not talking about March which was warm. I'm talking about April and actual temperatures that are very low in many regions for May. When it comes to the Sun there is a lot to learn about. Sun does not always follow the 11 year cycle.

if the Artic is warmer than the band of air circulation just below it... then it becomes ****weaker**** and oscillates rather than being a strong lateral trade wind.  the result is patches of colder weather.... such as 2 feet of snow..... in Poughkeepsie....... in January? no. February????? no.

try 2 feet of snow in March. in POUGHKEEPSIE!!!!!!

BECAUSE it is warmer in the Artic. 

 

the Artic winds are weaker.  the winds that used to be separating a very cold Artic woth a warmer area where Poughkeepsie is.

 

and that ain't no Chinese hoax.  nor 5 out of 8 models showing a 50% possibility of a moderate El Nino.... three years in a row.

 

Edited May 12, 2017 by maewang99

[maewang99]

 

2 feet of snow..... in Poughkeepsie..... in March.

BECAUSE of a warmer Artic.  

 

it's called the Jet Stream.  look it up.

 

Edited May 12, 2017 by maewang99

[Thunder26]

Just now, maewang99 said:

2 feet of snow..... in Poughkeepsie..... in March.

BECAUSE of a warmer Artic.  

 

 

Yes, it makes sense and might explain the cold spring in the northern hemisphere. I'll look into it more.