Merkel warns Britons - don't delude yourself over Brexit

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

Exactly, she is "the best we've got", and that says it all, really.

 

Too many Brits have got on the "it's us versus Germany" wagon. I do not understand this mood against a nation that has achieved so much and achieved a unity of purpose the Brits never reach except in world cup football or war. But it has always been the way of the Brit to talk down, resent and undermine others' success, and to have a big chunk of suspiciousness and dislike for "all things foreign". Your average Brit has never felt he/she was a "European" in the same way that the Europeans feel they are Europe.

 

There is, IMO, too much of an Himalaya being built out of a hill in this.

 

1. There is the divorce. Which should be quick.

 

2. There is the settlement, which is the 40-60 Billion of liabilities that the UK has signed up for. This is only 10% of the 400,000,000,000 that Mervyn King issued out of nowhere to save the banks. Surely the Canadian can do the same for the entire Nation? Just pay it and shut up.

 

3. Trade. It is quite clear that the UK will fall back to the default WTO agreements on tariffs and customs when exporting to Europe, but imports can remain the same whilst an FTA is hammered out. 

 

4. Immigrants. It has never been an issue for people with skills to move around Europe. There are exisiting laws for this. Just apply them and stop moaning. Mostly they will be fair, but there will be a few hit a bit harder. That's life. I have had more than a few bad patches in mine.

 

The problem is that

 

1. The politicians, particularly the UK bunch, will be trying to make everything depend on everything else leading to endless negotiations and deadlocks.

 

2. The legal teams will see these as a huge bonanza and prolong everything as long as possible.

 

3. There will be endless vultures descending saying that the UK now needs to rewrite all the standards and norms that have come out of Europe into a UK standard.

 

All of whom are trying to maximise their own income and do not, at heart, have the interests of the UK as a priority.

 

40 -60 Bn of liabilities my backside!

 

The sign-ups are until 2021. We will leave in 2019. We've been paying just over 8 Bn a year. This equates to less than 17 Bn for the remaining two years of our commitments (plus pension contributions thereafter) before we take into account the % of our contribution that is to be a member of the free trade area and our share of the EU's real estate which will have to be reimbursed to us.

[CharlieK]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

Well 40% of our exports are to the EU so you are saying that over 40% of EU exports go to the UK?

No I am saying the EU export more to the UK than the UK export to the EU, also if you check you will see UK exports to the EU have actually been falling over the years. That also shows we export 60% to other countries. Being in the EU stops the UK from negotiating trade deals with other countries. How is the EU a free trade area if you have to pay to sell into that market. Which is based on protectionism rather than free market forces.

 

Brexit is acting as a diversion from the real problems the EU has with the Euro. UK labour party talk about protecting EU citizen rights in the UK. Junker comes out the next day saying that is a pre condition for the EU. Now Tusk comes out and says a trade deal with the UK is not a priority. Fine lets go leave them to it and move on, won't be long before they change their minds. That's allowing for the fact that it is all posturing. May needs to turn around and tell them if it isn't a priority for them it isn't for the UK. Bye Bye.

 

You could blame UK politicians for this fiasco, until they show some sort of unity, the EU vultures will circle around picking on anything they can use to keep the UK in the EU. We should have gone and negotiated from outside, the way it is going people will be fed up and probably won't care if the UK stays in or out.     

[teddog]

5 minutes ago, oilinki said:

While some brexiters wish to see disunited EU, there is very little signs of that happening.
If anything EU is now more united than prior brexit. Our nations and people realised that we could lose something precious and are now awaken to defend and improve our EU.

 

We might need to send a thank you letters with flowers to Nigel who orchestrated the brexit separation, once this is over. Perhaps we'll even send some lilies to Kreml. 

 

 

 

you ain't seen nothing yet.  Wait until the french/Italian wine growers get stuffed with unsold wine..French ,Spanish fishing fleets get mothballed, Kraut car industry flattened ,Swedens industries also flattened etc etc etc   Not forgetting the EU had a massive surplus with UK ,that about to finish...and no 50 billion,  yes can see a united front as more goes into the coffers

[jimmybkk]

8 minutes ago, oilinki said:

While some brexiters wish to see disunited EU, there is very little signs of that happening.
If anything EU is now more united than prior brexit. Our nations and people realised that we could lose something precious and are now awaken to defend and improve our EU.

 

We might need to send a thank you letters with flowers to Nigel who orchestrated the brexit separation, once this is over. Perhaps we'll even send some lilies to Kreml. 

 

 

What should we send to George and Dave? After all it was Dave who decided back in Jan 2013 that there was going to be a referendum before the end of 2017... and then totally forgot to put together a contingency plan.

[CharlieK]

19 minutes ago, oilinki said:

While some brexiters wish to see disunited EU, there is very little signs of that happening.
If anything EU is now more united than prior brexit. Our nations and people realised that we could lose something precious and are now awaken to defend and improve our EU.

 

We might need to send a thank you letters with flowers to Nigel who orchestrated the brexit separation, once this is over. Perhaps we'll even send some lilies to Kreml. 

 

 

What of Le Pen will she pull off a frexit! will Frau Merkel have a Job in September. What of the two tier EU where the Pigs are left to wallow in the mire while northern EU countries forge on ahead. You really haven't solved the problem the Euro has caused either, wonder how strong that will be once you stop getting UK contributions.   

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, teddog said:

you ain't seen nothing yet.  Wait until the french/Italian wine growers get stuffed with unsold wine..French ,Spanish fishing fleets get mothballed, Kraut car industry flattened ,Swedens industries also flattened etc etc etc   Not forgetting the EU had a massive surplus with UK ,that about to finish...and no 50 billion,  yes can see a united front as more goes into the coffers

I thought you like to drink beer, more than wine? I'm sure 1% sales decrease globally is not such an big deal for wine manufacturers :)

What products and services does UK export to other countries? Fishery industry has been said often. Is that a major import product?

 

People like to talk about car industry. Does UK manufacture enough quality cars, so that people would not buy imported cars, when UK sets import duty to EU cars?

What is the  value of UK to the rest of the world?

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, CharlieK said:

What of Le Pen will she pull off a frexit! will Frau Merkel have a Job in September. What of the two tier EU where the Pigs are left to wallow in the mire while northern EU countries forge on ahead. You really haven't solved the problem the Euro has caused either, wonder how strong that will be once you stop getting UK contributions.   

Le Pen is Putin's little girl. She does not have a real chance in continental Europe.

[teddog]

Just now, oilinki said:

I thought you like to drink beer, more than wine? I'm sure 1% sales decrease globally is not such an big deal for wine manufacturers :)

What products and services does UK export to other countries? Fishery industry has been said often. Is that a major import product?

 

People like to talk about car industry. Does UK manufacture enough quality cars, so that people would not buy imported cars, when UK sets import duty to EU cars?

What is the  value of UK to the rest of the world?

 

The EU had a massive surplus with the UK ,that alone speaks volumes of what lies ahead, especially Italy,Spain. They cannot handle any more unemployment,especially .Portugal

[Guest]

1 minute ago, teddog said:

The EU had a massive surplus with the UK ,that alone speaks volumes of what lies ahead, especially Italy,Spain. They cannot handle any more unemployment,especially .Portugal

So the wine prices are going to go down, because UK will no longer drink Italian, French, Spanish or Portuguese wines?

 

You did not answer to my question. What products UK exports to EU?

 

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, oilinki said:

So the wine prices are going to go down, because UK will no longer drink Italian, French, Spanish or Portuguese wines?

 

You did not answer to my question. What products UK exports to EU?

 

 

[teddog]

Just now, oilinki said:

So the wine prices are going to go down, because UK will no longer drink Italian, French, Spanish or Portuguese wines?

 

You did not answer to my question. What products UK exports to EU?

 

 

To be honest I am not bothered one jot what the .UK exported to the EU  ,not one bit, but I tell you this for all Merkels huffing and puffing it matters not one jot,because the majority of Brits want out of the EU  finished,no more jaw -jaw ,no more visits from whoever,just get the hell out of it,get it forgotten about,just slam the bloody door on the EU     goodbye

[vogie]

11 minutes ago, oilinki said:

So the wine prices are going to go down, because UK will no longer drink Italian, French, Spanish or Portuguese wines?

 

You did not answer to my question. What products UK exports to EU?

 

 

25 minutes ago, oilinki said:

I thought you like to drink beer, more than wine? I'm sure 1% sales decrease globally is not such an big deal for wine manufacturers :)

What products and services does UK export to other countries? Fishery industry has been said often. Is that a major import product?

 

People like to talk about car industry. Does UK manufacture enough quality cars, so that people would not buy imported cars, when UK sets import duty to EU cars?

What is the  value of UK to the rest of the world?

I can only say that the UK is the 5th largest exporter in the world, Finland is the 41st, I believe that the UK still has a lot of clout. Why are you so bitter about the UK?

[Orac]

18 minutes ago, teddog said:

The EU had a massive surplus with the UK ,that alone speaks volumes of what lies ahead, especially Italy,Spain. They cannot handle any more unemployment,especially .Portugal

 

The problem woth using the absolute figures that the trade surplus is derived from is it doesn't take into account the huge disparity in size between the UK economy and the combined economies of the other EU nations.

 

This graph gives a better impression of how much each country has at stake.

 

 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, vogie said:

 

This chart is from 2011, it's 5 years old. What is the  source for it? Kreml?

 

On this chart nuclear reactors are the biggest export product for UK.In the past years Finland has been the only western country increase it's nuclear power facilities, we got it from France. Where did UK sold it's nuclear reactors? To India I guess?

After that Russia is the sole most important partner for UK. Hence my question of the source.

What products did UK sold to Russia?

It's not nuclear reactors, nor minerals as Russia produces those. I guess it must be all the cars and pharmaceuticals, which both together would make almost 43 Billion, which Russia imports from UK according to that graph.

 

Edited April 28, 2017 by Guest

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Quality like VW?

Yes

[teddog]

1 minute ago, oilinki said:

This chart is from 2011, it's 5 years old. What is the  source for it? Kreml?

 

On this chart nuclear reactors are the biggest export product for UK.In the past years Finland has been the only western country increase it's nuclear power facilities, we got it from France. Where did UK sold it's nuclear reactors? To India I guess?

After that Russia is the sole most important partner for UK. Hence my question of the source.

 

 

To be honest I am not bothered one jot what the .UK exported to the EU  ,not one bit, but I tell you this for all Merkels huffing and puffing it matters not one jot,because the majority of Brits want out of the EU  finished,no more jaw -jaw ,no more visits from whoever,just get the hell out of it,get it forgotten about,just slam the bloody door on the EU     goodbye

[Basil B]

Lot of hot air...

 

Anything to do with Germany having a General Election in 4 months??? 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, teddog said:

To be honest I am not bothered one jot what the .UK exported to the EU  ,not one bit, but I tell you this for all Merkels huffing and puffing it matters not one jot,because the majority of Brits want out of the EU  finished,no more jaw -jaw ,no more visits from whoever,just get the hell out of it,get it forgotten about,just slam the bloody door on the EU     goodbye

But of course you are not bothered how UK or EU does after the brexit, but of course you are not. 

[teddog]

Just now, oilinki said:

But of course you are not bothered how UK or EU does after the brexit, but of course you are not. 

Majority of Brits want out of EU...'nuff said?

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, teddog said:

Majority of Brits want out of EU...'nuff said?

Indeed. There was also 100% of Russian trolls who wanted brexit.

[vogie]

18 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Yes

I don't think the VW is the reliable car we once all knew, read this link and please don't cherry pick the points that suits you.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-americans-arent-buying-volkswagen-vw-2016-8

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

Exactly, she is "the best we've got", and that says it all, really.

 

Too many Brits have got on the "it's us versus Germany" wagon. I do not understand this mood against a nation that has achieved so much and achieved a unity of purpose the Brits never reach except in world cup football or war. But it has always been the way of the Brit to talk down, resent and undermine others' success, and to have a big chunk of suspiciousness and dislike for "all things foreign". Your average Brit has never felt he/she was a "European" in the same way that the Europeans feel they are Europe.

 

There is, IMO, too much of an Himalaya being built out of a hill in this.

 

1. There is the divorce. Which should be quick.

 

2. There is the settlement, which is the 40-60 Billion of liabilities that the UK has signed up for. This is only 10% of the 400,000,000,000 that Mervyn King issued out of nowhere to save the banks. Surely the Canadian can do the same for the entire Nation? Just pay it and shut up.

 

3. Trade. It is quite clear that the UK will fall back to the default WTO agreements on tariffs and customs when exporting to Europe, but imports can remain the same whilst an FTA is hammered out. 

 

4. Immigrants. It has never been an issue for people with skills to move around Europe. There are exisiting laws for this. Just apply them and stop moaning. Mostly they will be fair, but there will be a few hit a bit harder. That's life. I have had more than a few bad patches in mine.

 

The problem is that

 

1. The politicians, particularly the UK bunch, will be trying to make everything depend on everything else leading to endless negotiations and deadlocks.

 

2. The legal teams will see these as a huge bonanza and prolong everything as long as possible.

 

3. There will be endless vultures descending saying that the UK now needs to rewrite all the standards and norms that have come out of Europe into a UK standard.

 

All of whom are trying to maximise their own income and do not, at heart, have the interests of the UK as a priority.

It has been the Germans who have started the unfriendly jibes!

 

And you talk of Himalayas, your post is almost bigger than the average orogeny!

 

You cannot know how quick the divorce will be or what future trading arrangements will be. Bank bailouts were not unique to to UK. Migrants without good intent and with no skills are going to be a huge problem if the mass influx continues. All of your points are just either wrong or just speculation (as usual).

 

The people that have the best interests of the UK at heart already voted to leave last June.

 

 

 

 

 

[JAG]

I can only say that the UK is the 5th largest exporter in the world, Finland is the 41st, I believe that the UK still has a lot of clout. Why are you so bitter about the UK?

Ummh, because the UK is the 5th largest, Finland is the 4 1st largest?

Added to that of course is the realisation that Finland either has to fall in behind Germany, or behind Russia.

[Grouse]

19 minutes ago, vogie said:

I don't think the VW is the reliable car we once all knew, read this link and please don't cherry pick the points that suits you.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-americans-arent-buying-volkswagen-vw-2016-8

I've no doubt the average American would rate a typical Toyota over a Volkswagen. But what relevance is that?  I rate German auto engineering top in most catagories. The VW engine management issue was blown massively out of proportion by the Americans for obvious reasons. Import tariffs won't affect Demand for German cars.

[Guest]

When people say Germany is benefiting for low Euro value, here are the average salaries across the EU countries. Germany is quite up there.

 

Suorce: https://www.reinisfischer.com/average-salary-european-union-2016

 

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

I've no doubt the average American would rate a typical Toyota over a Volkswagen. But what relevance is that?  I rate German auto engineering top in most catagories. The VW engine management issue was blown massively out of proportion by the Americans for obvious reasons. Import tariffs won't affect Demand for German cars.

And equipping 11 million diesel cars with faulty emission software, the mind can only boggle. Japanese cars these days are more reliable than our German counterparts, fact. But I know you fly the flag for Germany and you will probably never be swayed.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

And equipping 11 million diesel cars with faulty emission software, the mind can only boggle. Japanese cars these days are more reliable than our German counterparts, fact. But I know you fly the flag for Germany and you will probably never be swayed.

I the quite near future we all are buying electric cars. Not gasoline nor diesel cars.Things change when we progress.

[vogie]

Just now, oilinki said:

I the quite near future we all are buying electric cars. Not gasoline nor diesel cars.Things change when we progress.

Thanks for sharing, much appreciated.

[nontabury]

11 hours ago, oilinki said:

While some brexiters wish to see disunited EU, there is very little signs of that happening.
If anything EU is now more united than prior brexit. Our nations and people realised that we could lose something precious and are now awaken to defend and improve our EU.

 

We might need to send a thank you letters with flowers to Nigel who orchestrated the brexit separation, once this is over. Perhaps we'll even send some lilies to Kreml. 

 

 

Well there's one thing for certain, the citizens of the 27 so called Union states are not in unison in support Of the E.U.. Last week for example, over 41% of the French electorate,voted for candidates who are anti the EU. The same can be said of the Italians,Austrians,Swedish and Dutch.Even in German  there is a growing discontent with this undemocratic disorganization.

 

 

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.