Slightly Unique Marriage Question

[FarSeas]

Sawatdee khraap everybody

 

Bit of a tricky situation that I'm not sure how to handle. I wish to marry my Thai partner who is a transgender woman, and return to Australia with her. She claims that the Thai government will not issue her with a renewed ID as a female. This sense of formalizing her identity is neither here nor there for me on a personal level, but it does raise some serious problems. My own country does not recognize same sex marriage as legal. So I don't know what to do - if I marry in Thailand, regardless of the fact that she personally identifies as a women, and I identify her as a woman, my own government will recognize this as a male/male relationship, thereby the marriage will be voided. 

 

Has anyone heard of ways around this? 

[Swiss1960]

You can not marry her, Thailand does also not recognize same-sex marriage. Even if she had full sex reassignment surgery, Thailand would not recognize her as a woman, all her ID papers would still say "Mr."

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[FarSeas]

Hello and thanks for the response. I should have clarified, I do not intend to marry her in Thailand, but in the Netherlands, so identity, whether same sex or male/female is not important. That said, I've spoken to several Dutch celebrants who say that they will happily perform a ceremony recognizing her as female, irrespective of her Thai ID. 

 

So the main issue is that we need the Thai government ID to state that she is female, in order to get her home to Australia, as my legal wife. What other options do we have? Emigrating to Australia is considerably harder for a Thai national who is not in a marriage union with a citizen. 

[Swiss1960]

"celebration" does not mean anything, and I am not sure the Dutch can get you legally married, at least not legally with regards to Thailand or Australia.

 

Why not take her to Australia as tourist and then live in a district where same-sex unions are recognized and try to get her a permission to stay there?

 

Sent from my HTC 10 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

[FarSeas]

a 'CELEBRANT' (not 'celebration') is a non-clergy civil officer that can legally conduct weddings just as formally recognised as a traditional church wedding. My own sister recently used one, and was married in a restaurant as a secular ceremony. She is no more or no less any married than someone who does the whole church/priest process. 

 

And in the Netherlands I am told that it is just the same as in Australia, with the difference being that a Dutch ceremony is formally and legally recognised as a marriage. And.... I've been advised by all but one that I spoke to is most happy to lodge our certificate as man and woman (as this is what the marriage is, it's not a same sex marriage at all)

 

So we can have a marriage certificate that by all accounts is between a man and a woman, but the Australian government will not recognise it, which make her emigration a whole lot harder. She has been to Australia before on a tourist visa with my help, but the last two times she has been rejected, on the premise of some ridiculous responses like 'she is not a genuine tourist'. I have no idea what that even means, and nobody will give me any straight answers 

 

 

[Preacher]

Indeed a marriage in the Netherlands is legal as it doesn't matter if it is a marriage between two different sexes or a same sex marriage. The problem lies with being recognized in other countries.

 

I can only recommend contacting some LGBT-organsiations in both Thailand and Australia and see if they can give you some advise.

From wikipedia I understand that people since 2007 have the right to change their legal gender. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Thailand

 

 

[FarSeas]

That's interesting, as it's quite a common response from official channels when TG girls want to get their entity changed, they are refused. I'll look into this further myself. 

 

If she changes her legal entity, then as far as I'm concerned the Australian Government will recognize us as a married couple. But perhaps I should talk to a LGBT organization in Australia as well to see whether there will be any other factors that the government may say she is not a female (and potentially there is)

[Thongkorn]

On 5/2/2017 at 2:37 AM, FarSeas said:

a 'CELEBRANT' (not 'celebration') is a non-clergy civil officer that can legally conduct weddings just as formally recognised as a traditional church wedding. My own sister recently used one, and was married in a restaurant as a secular ceremony. She is no more or no less any married than someone who does the whole church/priest process. 

 

And in the Netherlands I am told that it is just the same as in Australia, with the difference being that a Dutch ceremony is formally and legally recognised as a marriage. And.... I've been advised by all but one that I spoke to is most happy to lodge our certificate as man and woman (as this is what the marriage is, it's not a same sex marriage at all)

 

So we can have a marriage certificate that by all accounts is between a man and a woman, but the Australian government will not recognise it, which make her emigration a whole lot harder. She has been to Australia before on a tourist visa with my help, but the last two times she has been rejected, on the premise of some ridiculous responses like 'she is not a genuine tourist'. I have no idea what that even means, and nobody will give me any straight answers 

 

 

 Think if you have already been refused a Visa , it will be a Big problem for you getting a Settlement visa,  also depending on  her age she is still eligible to be called up into the Thai Army, and if she does if possible relinquish her Thai Id card  or change her  surname  she will not be recognised in Thailand.