Cash-strapped teachers offered loans to clear debts

[fruitman]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

Your missing the point, learning foreign languages is useful but not for everyone. Its better to get the normal standard up for their normal jobs before going on about English. Most !!!!! Thais have little or no use for English. Its foreigners like you who want them to speak English because you don't speak Thai. If one in 1000 clients is foreigner.. its not useful to invest your time in learning English, its far more useful if your a cashier then to invest your time in learning more about calculations and accounting. It has a far larger impact. Same goes for an electrician .. better to learn more about your chosen profession before going to study English.. sure for others it could be useful but they are far from a MAJORITY of Thais. 

 

So you're saying the Thai can't study a language and at the same time learn jobspecific subjects as well?  Didn't you get some hours of German/French language next to your accounting classes?

 

Everything is of a low standard in Thailand and nobody is a professional. The whole educationsystem should get revamped since it's a waste of time for the students. They better learn english and study themselves from youtube movies.

 

 

[theguyfromanotherforum]

What is it with that need to speak English.. its not needed here.. people speak Thai.. ok some expats don't want or can't learn Thai so they want others to learn English but to what benefit of the student ?. Do tell me do they get a higher salary if they speak English ? Or is it just fo the ease of the lazy foreigner that does not want to learn the local language ?
 
Now for jobs in hotels and in the tourist industry I get the need, international trading.. again yes.. but for a cashier.. no need as the majority of clients are THAI.
 
Now why would a biology or a math teacher need to speak English.. i rather have a good math teacher then a bad one that can speak English. English is overrated and is only needed in those jobs where the majority of people they come in contact with speak English not for other jobs just because lazy old foreigners don't want to learn other languages. 

My wife works for Siemens and everyone in the office is required to speak English, even Germans.

I am assuming every single international company in Thailand has the same requirement, so your post is nonsense.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[robblok]

1 hour ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

 

My wife works for Siemens and everyone in the office is required to speak English, even Germans.

I am assuming every single international company in Thailand has the same requirement, so your post is nonsense.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

 

You should read what I posted.. I get it for international trading and other jobs where English is required. But the education system is so bad here it makes sense to change other more important things before investing time to teach (everyone) English. That was my post. 

 

To revamp the education system you should start with more important things then English. I keep my view that English is not important for the majority of Thai students (and I am not talking university alone) 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, fruitman said:

 

So you're saying the Thai can't study a language and at the same time learn jobspecific subjects as well?  Didn't you get some hours of German/French language next to your accounting classes?

 

Everything is of a low standard in Thailand and nobody is a professional. The whole educationsystem should get revamped since it's a waste of time for the students. They better learn english and study themselves from youtube movies.

 

 

What I am saying is that during my accounting / tax education languages were of far lesser importance then the subjects like calculation / tax law / accounting law ect. If you want to get better quality first fix the important things.. then fix less important things like English.

 

Accounting has taught me you can only spend your baht once.. so use it where you get the most bang for your bath.. and that is not English.. normal subjects are more important.

 

In an unlimited money situation / perfect world you can do both.. unfortunately that is not the case here. Like you said the whole education system should be changed.. that costs loads of money should not spend it on English but on the more important things.

 

I still feel English is important.. for people in tourism related jobs (guess what they get extra English classes), international trading and international companies ect. I don't feel its important for someone flipping burgers because a farang cant order his burger in Thai and throws a hissy fit about it. 

[theguyfromanotherforum]

33 minutes ago, robblok said:

You should read what I posted.. I get it for international trading and other jobs where English is required. But the education system is so bad here it makes sense to change other more important things before investing time to teach (everyone) English. That was my post. 

 

To revamp the education system you should start with more important things then English. I keep my view that English is not important for the majority of Thai students (and I am not talking university alone) 

 

English is important. It's the language that took over the world, like it or not. The education system is bad, but that doesn't mean that English should not be a required language in schools. 

 

I am not even a native English speaker, I am a Serb.... a supposed hater of everything English, yet here I am forced to use it. Just a reality in today's world.

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

English is important. It's the language that took over the world, like it or not. The education system is bad, but that doesn't mean that English should not be a required language in schools. 

 

I am not even a native English speaker, I am a Serb.... a supposed hater of everything English, yet here I am forced to use it. Just a reality in today's world.

I am Dutch also not my native language (certainly not a hater of the language). The post that I was replying to was that all teachers should speak English and English should be taught much better. 

 

My point was that the education system is bad as is.. and not everyone needs English. In higher education for sure.. but lower education not really. Most Thais really don't need it at all. If you can spend your money just once, then spend it what helps the most and that is for the subjects that are most important (in a technical school it would not be English, and for lower education also not). Later on for sure.. but as money is limited and the system here is messed up as is priorities should be set and I find it stupid to expect all teachers to speak good English a good priority. (for English teachers I understand the need.. but PE teachers ect)

 

Anyway I love that I speak English opened up a lot of stuff for me.. but not everyone needs this I can find countless Dutch people who don't need English and not use it. So while I think its good that everyone should learn it.. only so if budget allows (it does in my country)

[anotheruser]

Okay. so the thread is about giving teachers loans for less than they currently pay. They aren't allowed to extend credit until they pay the loan off. Seems okay to me.

[USPatriot]

I thought that there is a term called a budget.

Anyone here have a budget?

 

 

[metisdead]

Grammar police posts and replies have been removed.  Off topic bickering posts and replies were removed as well. 

[Rhys]

....and they play the lottery as well.  

[JaiLai]

What is it with that need to speak English.. its not needed here.. people speak Thai.. ok some expats don't want or can't learn Thai so they want others to learn English but to what benefit of the student ?. Do tell me do they get a higher salary if they speak English ? Or is it just fo the ease of the lazy foreigner that does not want to learn the local language ?
 
Now for jobs in hotels and in the tourist industry I get the need, international trading.. again yes.. but for a cashier.. no need as the majority of clients are THAI.
 
Now why would a biology or a math teacher need to speak English.. i rather have a good math teacher then a bad one that can speak English. English is overrated and is only needed in those jobs where the majority of people they come in contact with speak English not for other jobs just because lazy old foreigners don't want to learn other languages. 

English opens up the opportunity for overseas work and higher salary.

Job comes up in Japan or example - Thai is no use.

[fruitman]

17 hours ago, robblok said:

. I don't feel its important for someone flipping burgers because a farang cant order his burger in Thai and throws a hissy fit about it. 

 

So restaurants don't have to speak english? Nope, tourists don't go there, even not to american restaurants like MacD.

 

Thailand is very lucky that it's such a mess on the Phillipines or the tourists would all go there since they can speak english.

 

You can also say: Why does a bookkeeper from Holland need to learn languages? He will do taxforms in Dutch language only so why learn other languages?

 

 

[muzmurray]

1 hour ago, JaiLai said:

 

English opens up the opportunity for overseas work and higher salary.

Job comes up in Japan or example - Thai is no use.

 

 

I would have thought Japanese was more useful for a job in Japan?

[ben2talk]

1 minute ago, muzmurray said:

 

I would have thought Japanese was more useful for a job in Japan?

You must understand the basic idea that, around the world, if you choose 5 countries where English isn't the first language, and want to learn ONE language to survive them all, then it's going to be English - unless the countries all use Latin based languages, then you could learn some Spanish, and Chinese language is also pretty widespread. However, English is number one.

 

In Thai universities, they teach Economics in Thai with English, not Japanese.

Keep working on it, eventually you might start to glimpse an idea of what these Hi-IQ ThaiVisa members are getting at

[robblok]

28 minutes ago, fruitman said:

 

So restaurants don't have to speak english? Nope, tourists don't go there, even not to american restaurants like MacD.

 

Thailand is very lucky that it's such a mess on the Phillipines or the tourists would all go there since they can speak english.

 

You can also say: Why does a bookkeeper from Holland need to learn languages? He will do taxforms in Dutch language only so why learn other languages?

 

 

No you can't expect someone at the MacD to speak English given the salary that he gets paid. Then again an expat living here who can't even speak a few words of Thai and throws temper tantrums when they don't speak English is thankfully a minority. Most would understand that they should have learned some Thai.

 

As for Dutch bookkeepers speaking English, I have worked at an international stock broker office too as head of IT and Backoffice. I did need it there. But for Dutch bookkeeping and tax law I don't need any English. I did acquire some English clients.. but they are such a small part of my clients that it would have been stupid to study English just for that. 

 

Its good to teach higher educated people English they have a higher chance of using it but for lower educated people it makes no economic sense to learn English. Thailands education system is already bad.. and the money can be spend much better elsewhere than teaching everyone English.

If money and time were limitless I would agree.. for now.. just teach good English to the higher education and keep teaching some English to others. No need to invest loads of money in English now when far more important subjects need money. 

[fruitman]

11 minutes ago, ben2talk said:

You must understand the basic idea that, around the world, if you choose 5 countries where English isn't the first language, and want to learn ONE language to survive them all, then it's going to be English - unless the countries all use Latin based languages, then you could learn some Spanish, and Chinese language is also pretty widespread. However, English is number one.

 

In Thai universities, they teach Economics in Thai with English, not Japanese.

Keep working on it, eventually you might start to glimpse an idea of what these Hi-IQ ThaiVisa members are getting at

There are several chinese languages so better learn all of them....or just let those chinese learn english as well.

[robblok]

1 hour ago, JaiLai said:

 

English opens up the opportunity for overseas work and higher salary.

Job comes up in Japan or example - Thai is no use.

 

Yes and if you had read I was not against English for people who need it.. just think its stupid to put extra money in English when the whole system is failing and its better to put it in more important subjects because the amount of people who need it is not that high. 

 

As an accountant i know that money can be spend only once and if that means giving an electrician some more hands on knowledge on his given trade or teaching him some English I know what I would have chosen. (Not if I was a grumpy expat who expects the whole world to speak my language because I am to lazy to learn Thai)

 

Now teaching English to those who need it that is all good of course, and should still be done. As far as I know more English is taught in certain fields of study like the universities that teach tour-guides often have more English lessons and better teachers. 

 

Its called specialization and saves money,

 

The whole reason of me going off against English was because someone suggested that everyone should learn good English, even if not needed in their field of study. I find that a big waste of resources.. resources that are already not enough. 

[fruitman]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

for lower educated people it makes no economic sense to learn English

 

Nope, it's enough if you can yell "sukci sukci boom boom" , can get vely lich from that in some parts of Thailand.

[DavisH]

On 5/8/2017 at 6:16 AM, colinneil said:

Why are so many teachers in serious debt situation?

Easy answer, is because it is too easy for them to borrow money.

The teachers savings and credit crowd just give them loans just because they are teachers.

A local teacher gets just 2000 baht per month from her salary, because the remainder is taken out of her salary to repay loans.

Stop lending them money that they cannot pay back, then it is problem solved.

Many of the Thai teachers own newish cars at my school. The number has steadily increased over the years. That must take a decent chunk of their salary, but I guess they live with their parents and live relatively humble lives otherwise. 

[robblok]

18 minutes ago, ben2talk said:

You must understand the basic idea that, around the world, if you choose 5 countries where English isn't the first language, and want to learn ONE language to survive them all, then it's going to be English - unless the countries all use Latin based languages, then you could learn some Spanish, and Chinese language is also pretty widespread. However, English is number one.

 

In Thai universities, they teach Economics in Thai with English, not Japanese.

Keep working on it, eventually you might start to glimpse an idea of what these Hi-IQ ThaiVisa members are getting at

Yes you might learn something there are actually schools here that teach Japanese.. a friend of mine is a Japanese translator.  She said learning Japanese is far more useful than learning English if you want to work in japan or with Japanese. 

 

Now if your not sure where you are going to work then English is a safer bet of course. But its never bad to have English included in schools where its needed.

[muzmurray]

26 minutes ago, ben2talk said:

You must understand the basic idea that, around the world, if you choose 5 countries where English isn't the first language, and want to learn ONE language to survive them all, then it's going to be English - unless the countries all use Latin based languages, then you could learn some Spanish, and Chinese language is also pretty widespread. However, English is number one.

 

In Thai universities, they teach Economics in Thai with English, not Japanese.

Keep working on it, eventually you might start to glimpse an idea of what these Hi-IQ ThaiVisa members are getting at

 

"if you choose 5 countries where English isn't the first language, and want to learn ONE language to survive them all, then it's going to be English"

 

"unless the countries all use Latin based languages, then you could learn some Spanish, and Chinese language is also pretty widespread. However, English is number one."

 

All you have done is contradict yourself !

[ben2talk]

On 5/8/2017 at 10:39 AM, robblok said:

Thai English teachers should of course speak good English.. Seems logical to me.. the comment was a reply to why only a small portion of all teachers speak good English. I don't see what a biology teacher / history teacher has to do with English. I don't see why English is so important to others besides for teaching English. If your an English teacher you should command the subject you are teaching. 

 

Strangely, when students study Economics at University, they have a great deal of 'English' content which gives them great headaches - generally they must find ways to 'cheat' around the abstruse texts written in some language that is impossible to translate or understand.

 

Sadly, they then go ahead and become teachers - not having mastered the 'other' language, because it's not important to 'Economics'. Just learn the Economics without the English - great plan.

 

If thrown a tablet and/or good TV content in English, you don't need to bother teaching your kids much, English will come naturally - the lazy way! However, TiT and it's hard to imagine any reason that a super rich General with real submarines to play with on his weekend holidays would worry about improving the education of his minions.

 

For REAL education, stories must be very boring and preachy (look at the cheap bilingual books in the stores - not one fun book among them) and so kids quickly learn that English is very boring. Having fun means stop learning (clever = boring and serious) and scream and shout and jump around a lot (inane and stupid = fun).

 

To be 'Real' is to be 'boring' - hence, if you're going to be an actor you must flatly refuse to show any kind of normal reaction or behaviour in your drama. Everything MUST be completely false and OTT, otherwise it CANNOT be fun at all.

 

I recently heard a teacher telling her 4-5 year old 'flock' very seriously that when you're not 100% focused on the lesson, or you fail to do the right thing, then you collect 'rubbish' in the top of your skull. If this continues, or increases, then your head can explode like a balloon. A very well respected and well paid (Thai teacher for 'drama' and 'advertising' actors mostly).

[ben2talk]

Just now, muzmurray said:

 

"if you choose 5 countries where English isn't the first language, and want to learn ONE language to survive them all, then it's going to be English"

 

"unless the countries all use Latin based languages, then you could learn some Spanish, and Chinese language is also pretty widespread. However, English is number one."

 

All you have done is contradict yourself !

English first, after that possibly a latin based language... what's the contradiction?

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, ben2talk said:

 

Strangely, when students study Economics at University, they have a great deal of 'English' content which gives them great headaches - generally they must find ways to 'cheat' around the abstruse texts written in some language that is impossible to translate or understand.

 

Sadly, they then go ahead and become teachers - not having mastered the 'other' language, because it's not important to 'Economics'. Just learn the Economics without the English - great plan.

 

If thrown a tablet and/or good TV content in English, you don't need to bother teaching your kids much, English will come naturally - the lazy way! However, TiT and it's hard to imagine any reason that a super rich General with real submarines to play with on his weekend holidays would worry about improving the education of his minions.

 

For REAL education, stories must be very boring and preachy (look at the cheap bilingual books in the stores - not one fun book among them) and so kids quickly learn that English is very boring. Having fun means stop learning (clever = boring and serious) and scream and shout and jump around a lot (inane and stupid = fun).

 

To be 'Real' is to be 'boring' - hence, if you're going to be an actor you must flatly refuse to show any kind of normal reaction or behaviour in your drama. Everything MUST be completely false and OTT, otherwise it CANNOT be fun at all.

 

I recently heard a teacher telling her 4-5 year old 'flock' very seriously that when you're not 100% focused on the lesson, or you fail to do the right thing, then you collect 'rubbish' in the top of your skull. If this continues, or increases, then your head can explode like a balloon. A very well respected and well paid (Thai teacher for 'drama' and 'advertising' actors mostly).

 

That is something I have always told people, in my country we don't voice over our TV programs we keep them in English it helps a lot. 

 

 

[ben2talk]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

 

That is something I have always told people, in my country we don't voice over our TV programs we keep them in English it helps a lot. 

 

 

Dutch people are a great example - they grow up loving a foreign language... something completely alien to most English (especially British) people.

[DILLIGAD]

Dutch people are a great example - they grow up loving a foreign language... something completely alien to most English (especially British) people.

What do you call someone who speaks 2 languages = bilingual

What do you call someone who speaks 3 languages = trilingual

What do you call someone who speaks 1 language = British.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[robblok]

Just now, ben2talk said:

Dutch people are a great example - they grow up loving a foreign language... something completely alien to most English (especially British) people.

I certainly liked English a lot more then the German (even though far closer related to my language) and French. 

 

I certainly have nothing against English lessons and so on.. just don't think it would be wise to allocate loads of the budged for it while more important parts are still lacking. Now using part of the budget to improve English there where it matters is an other discussion. I was just against giving English now preference over all other subjects while the other subjects have far more practical applications  for MOST students.

 

If budget increases.. sure why not.. but at this moment the level of education is not that great it would be far wiser to teach teachers to teach better.. to be better at their given subjects and so on.

 

First learn to walk before you start to run. 

[robblok]

1 minute ago, DILLIGAD said:

What do you call someone who speaks 2 languages = bilingual

What do you call someone who speaks 3 languages = trilingual

What do you call someone who speaks 1 language = British.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is a lie.. some of those Brits speak languages so alien to everyone who speaks English that it must be a second language.. accents so heavy i rather listen to a German speaking crappy English. 

[ben2talk]

6 minutes ago, DILLIGAD said:

What do you call someone who speaks 2 languages = bilingual
What do you call someone who speaks 3 languages = trilingual
What do you call someone who speaks 1 language = British.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You're aware that in Britain, we're expected to study languages - not so in America. The term 'English' is also more likely to refer to 'US English'  - a lower form of the language, greatly 'dumbed down' (which, unfortunately, removes a great number of beneficial features) for the Americans.

 

As Trump himself says "I never knew English could be so complicated".

 

Actually, I have a lot of trouble working out what real British people put out on social media or forums. Being past 50 myself I'm rather out of the frame. What I consider to be 'English' is a dead language - mostly kept alive amongst ex-pats it appears.

 

It's not just about accent innit.

[maewang99]

another very clever use of British or American English? 
not for me. please do chime in.
 

there are two major groups of "teachers" here.... major groups..... and using one for the other makes it very easy to make up lots of crappy happy nonsense. so....

by "teachers" do they mean those paid with tea money? 
or is it roughly half and half those folks and the Civil Service ones?
another... are these mostly rural workers?

these would be necessary details for any ****thinking**** reader... eh?

a big clue to nonsense. using words very generally.

as if "teachers" were something simple and monolithic to which we subsume everyone in a simple category.... like "China" is to Donald Trump. 

 

or "farlang" as every person with......

 

because............. the biggest one of all is........ 

"Thai"...

 

and I suppose we also are to swallow that Bangkok can solve this problem.... for the entire country.... presto bingo! 

I'm impressed.

 

Edited May 10, 2017 by maewang99