Phuket Police charge British boyfriend for death of Sophie Anderson

[steveyinasia]

9 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

I don't know what others see but I live just off a major road that leads from Chiang Mai to a heavily visited tourist destination and I frequently travel that road. I regularly see westerners riding motorbikes and scooters and driving the same way they might drive back home, their positioning in the lanes is wrong, they sit in the middle of the lane as though it is their right to own it - in most cases their awareness of what is or is not behind them is non-existent. They also make too many assumptions about other road users, that they will give way and will allow the scooter/bike use of the lane and keep a safe distance. I also see lots of people riding scooters and bikes who have clearly never ridden one before or at the very least, not for many many years.

 

Riding a motor bike/scooter here isn't the same as in the West and most tourists simply don't get that, instead they claim to be experienced road users back home which frankly amounts to almost zero here. And if indeed so many are such experienced road users, why do so few of them wear helmets, I would have thought that would have been the number one priority of an experienced scooter/motor bike rider.

" their positioning in the lanes is wrong, they sit in the middle of the lane as though it is their right to own it"  Actually, a motorbike is still classified as a motor vehicle and has every right to occupy the lane, it is often the car drivers that fail to recognise this and try to push their way through.  Whilst I would not travel in the middle of the lane on a bike, too much oil and crap from cars is deposited in the middle of the lane, I would not position myself at the edge of the lane either, just to the left or right of the middle is the best.

[simoh1490]

Just now, steveyinasia said:

" their positioning in the lanes is wrong, they sit in the middle of the lane as though it is their right to own it"  Actually, a motorbike is still classified as a motor vehicle and has every right to occupy the lane, it is often the car drivers that fail to recognise this and try to push their way through.  Whilst I would not travel in the middle of the lane on a bike, too much oil and crap from cars is deposited in the middle of the lane, I would not position myself at the edge of the lane either, just to the left or right of the middle is the best.

I agree they have the right but it's just not safe, mostly because it leaves room for some idiot to undertake them.

[steveyinasia]

Just now, simoh1490 said:

I agree they have the right but it's just not safe, mostly because it leaves room for some idiot to undertake them.

Absolutely agree with that.

[SiSePuede419]

"after he braked suddenly to avoid ramming into the back of a car, that he said had braked suddenly Monday last week"

 

Doesn't matter if the vehicle in front of you brakes suddenly.  If you can't stop in time, that means you are following too closely.  Which is a crime aka "tailgating".

 

For example:

 

21703. The driver of a motor vehicle shall not follow another vehicle more closely than is reasonable and prudent, having due regard for the speed of such vehicle and the traffic upon, and the condition of, the roadway.

 

So the exact distance to follow someone depends on the traffic, whether the road is wet or dry and the local speed limit.

 

Driving fast is not "prudent". ?

 

 

[Phuketboy]

Everyone should have dash cams.  I have 2 in the car (2 ch front and rear) and the same on the bike (innovv make great waterproof ones small enough to hide on bikes with the main unit under the seat). Cameras don't lie and can be the best defence (maybe the only defence) you have especially in Thailand where they will 90% of the time blame the foreigner. 

[bangkokairportlink]

RIP

 

But when you have kids and when you are pregnant, you do not ride a motorbike.

 

Sad for so many kids to have so stupid parents.

 

 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

23 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

IF I'm not mistaken, when there is a road traffic accident resulting in death all partied involved with the event will be charged as a formality regardless of innocence or guilt.. This is why our first class insurance has a 200,000 baht bail bond. 

 

Again, IF I'm not mistaken this formality will pass and hopefully common sense will prevail in the recognition that this was a tragic accident caused by the bike driver braking.

I mostly agree, but he said the truck in front of him braked suddenly, so he was too close behind, which could be  construed as "reckless driving".

RIP to the unfortunate victim of this terrible accident.

 

[smotherb]

6 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

You hadn't bothered reading either thread at all before commenting??

 

Bit suprised that you have suddenly changed your attitude, even though the same 'arguments' have been posted time and time again...

Well, slick, did you miss the point? I have not changed my attitude. If someone falls off a bike which does not go down, it is their responsibility. However, the fact that the bike went down changes the circumstances. The TV intro article did not say the bike went down, the Phuket news article did not say the bike went down; you had to click and read the (See story here.) before it said the bike went down.  

[cat handler]

On 17/05/2017 at 10:05 PM, stevenl said:

Agree, it was an accident. But that means here in Thailand somebody will be charged, happens after all accidents. If nothing serious 500 or 1,000 Baht fine, here probably more.

What planet are you from, killing someone by dangerous driving is a criminal offence in just about every country in the world. No it was not an accident, an accident would be if the new tyre of a well maintained bike had blown out while the driver was riding at the speed limit and caused the bike to swerve, this was avoidable so definetly no accident. Acts of stupidity and recklessness are not accidents.

[happyas]

3 hours ago, cat handler said:

What planet are you from, killing someone by dangerous driving is a criminal offence in just about every country in the world. No it was not an accident, an accident would be if the new tyre of a well maintained bike had blown out while the driver was riding at the speed limit and caused the bike to swerve, this was avoidable so definetly no accident. Acts of stupidity and recklessness are not accidents.

 What part of this incident, was, in your mind, dangerous driving?

[stevenl]

10 hours ago, cat handler said:

What planet are you from, killing someone by dangerous driving is a criminal offence in just about every country in the world. No it was not an accident, an accident would be if the new tyre of a well maintained bike had blown out while the driver was riding at the speed limit and caused the bike to swerve, this was avoidable so definetly no accident. Acts of stupidity and recklessness are not accidents.

Avoidable does not mean it was not an accident.

 

What planet are you from?

[ThaidaGwaii]

Charged for bad driving?  In Thailand???

[ELVIS123456]

I agree that riding a bike while pregnant in a foreign country is stupid, and that riding (in same situation) without a helmet is stupid.

 

I also agree that in Thailand a bike is not 'legally' obliged to keep left, however most Thais think bikes are required to travel on the left to allow other faster vehicles to pass. Most bikes travel slower than cars/trucks, and many drivers will push bikes left if they get in front of them.  They believe bikes must travel on left side of road, and that includes the BiB who cannot be argued with as those who have 'encountered' them will testify (bribed yes, but not argued with). 

 

As anyone who has driven in Thailand for a while knows, what is legal is irrelevant. And that is always the issue when tourists ride bikes in Thailand - they dont know the real rules. Was the guy at fault for not being on the left side and therefore she would have fallen towards the gutter and not under the truck?  Was the guy going quickly and overtaking cars and made a mistake?  Who knows. I hope the truth will come out quickly.

 

But as someone has already said - anyone driving/riding in Thailand without camera/s is taking a bigger risk than is already being taken by driving/riding in the first place.  

[tukkytuktuk]

Two hours ago on Sun Fruit Dan youtube account Danny Glass posted this video:-

 

He says he is not aware of any charges being brought against him. Neither do the British Embassy. What is going on? Fake news?

[Goldieinkathu]

4 hours ago, tukkytuktuk said:

Two hours ago on Sun Fruit Dan youtube account Danny Glass posted this video:-

 

He says he is not aware of any charges being brought against him. Neither do the British Embassy. What is going on? Fake news?

Maybe they're still looking into it. I came across this link on Google, this whole thing gets stranger by the day.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3568677/pregnant-brit-killed-in-thailand-motorbike-crash-told-pals-she-hadnt-felt-safe-around-lover-who-was-driving-death-scooter-for-a-long-time/

[happyas]

2 hours ago, Goldieinkathu said:

Maybe they're still looking into it. I came across this link on Google, this whole thing gets stranger by the day.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3568677/pregnant-brit-killed-in-thailand-motorbike-crash-told-pals-she-hadnt-felt-safe-around-lover-who-was-driving-death-scooter-for-a-long-time/

 Had seen other info that they weren't getting along together..BUT i don't really think that there is any connection with this thread.

How long before one of the lurkers come out with a "planned death" story.?

[cat handler]

On 19/05/2017 at 5:21 PM, stevenl said:

Avoidable does not mean it was not an accident.

 

What planet are you from?

Actually yes it does, accidents are unavoidable. Being careless and negligent isn't an accident.

[cat handler]

On 19/05/2017 at 10:34 AM, happyas said:

 What part of this incident, was, in your mind, dangerous driving?

Driving too close to the vehicle in front not giving him time to react if that vehicle brakes, here we call it Tailgating and it's illegal too, in fact it's illegal in most countries in the world do you know why it's illegal? Come on have a guess!

 

i suggest you google Tailgating Laws if your unaware of this law, and if you are unaware of it please hand your license back.

[stevenl]

12 hours ago, cat handler said:

Actually yes it does, accidents are unavoidable. Being careless and negligent isn't an accident.

Just did a Google search for you, Webster resulted in  " an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury. " In the case at hand it was clearly unexpectedly and unintentionally. So an accident.

 

Now I'm sure you can come up with another definition, but to state unequivocally in order for something to be an accident it needs to be unavoidable is simply not correct.

[cat handler]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

Just did a Google search for you, Webster resulted in  " an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury. " In the case at hand it was clearly unexpectedly and unintentionally. So an accident.

 

Now I'm sure you can come up with another definition, but to state unequivocally in order for something to be an accident it needs to be unavoidable is simply not correct.

No, it was not Unexpectedly, it would be expected a car or truck travelling down a road would at some point brake, it's also not unintentional because he intentionally was Tailgating the truck he was following and not leaving a safe brak No distance. that is the whole purpose behind Tailgating Laws in EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. Again, carelessness and recklessness actions are not accidents for the person involved, in this case the bike rider, as the out come of his carelessness was predictable and foreseen (again, why they have made laws prohibiting his actions).

 

It was was an accident for the both other trucks involved because they could not possibly foreseen the outcome of the bike riders actions.

[happyas]

2 hours ago, cat handler said:

No, it was not Unexpectedly, it would be expected a car or truck travelling down a road would at some point brake, it's also not unintentional because he intentionally was Tailgating the truck he was following and not leaving a safe brak No distance. that is the whole purpose behind Tailgating Laws in EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. Again, carelessness and recklessness actions are not accidents for the person involved, in this case the bike rider, as the out come of his carelessness was predictable and foreseen (again, why they have made laws prohibiting his actions).

 

It was was an accident for the both other trucks involved because they could not possibly foreseen the outcome of the bike riders actions.

Your tailgate rant may have some merit if the guy had rear ended the pick up  truck, but he didn't.

Through his own fault tho' [inattention or lack of ability] he hit the brakes and fell off.

In the video he is at least a car length behind the pick up when he went down.

 

There may have been something slippery on the road surface because its not easy to make a scooter lock up and skid, and moreso, two up.

[catman20]

On 5/20/2017 at 2:17 PM, Goldieinkathu said:

Maybe they're still looking into it. I came across this link on Google, this whole thing gets stranger by the day.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3568677/pregnant-brit-killed-in-thailand-motorbike-crash-told-pals-she-hadnt-felt-safe-around-lover-who-was-driving-death-scooter-for-a-long-time/

he seem like he talking about some sports video hes uploaded onto YouTube.( not the video in the sun) he did not seem that upset about the loss of his girlfriend/lover , he would of been better off not saying anything. came across as heartless.

Edited May 21, 2017 by catman20

[cat handler]

3 hours ago, happyas said:

Your tailgate rant may have some merit if the guy had rear ended the pick up  truck, but he didn't.

Through his own fault tho' [inattention or lack of ability] he hit the brakes and fell off.

In the video he is at least a car length behind the pick up when he went down.

 

There may have been something slippery on the road surface because its not easy to make a scooter lock up and skid, and moreso, two up.

You didn't read ANY definitions of Tailgating in any jurastrictions did you, the report into the fatality states

"Ms Anderson was riding pillion when Mr Glass lost control of the scooter they were riding on after he braked suddenly to avoid ramming into the back of a car, that he said had braked suddenly Monday last week (May 8)."

Tailgating Laws everywhere in the world state you must travel at a safe breaking distance behind the vehicle in front dependant on speeds and conditions. There is not a set distance like "you must travel no closer than 10 metres", it's a safe braking distance dependant on conditions, if he lost control because he had to slam on the brakes it's pretty certain he wasn't a safe braking distance behind the car.....Tailgating. 

 

[stevenl]

8 hours ago, cat handler said:

No, it was not Unexpectedly, it would be expected a car or truck travelling down a road would at some point brake, it's also not unintentional because he intentionally was Tailgating the truck he was following and not leaving a safe brak No distance. that is the whole purpose behind Tailgating Laws in EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. Again, carelessness and recklessness actions are not accidents for the person involved, in this case the bike rider, as the out come of his carelessness was predictable and foreseen (again, why they have made laws prohibiting his actions).

 

It was was an accident for the both other trucks involved because they could not possibly foreseen the outcome of the bike riders actions.

Total nonsense. But Im not getting into any more of an argument here with you about this.

 

Have a good evening.

[Goldieinkathu]

3 hours ago, cat handler said:

You didn't read ANY definitions of Tailgating in any jurastrictions did you, the report into the fatality states

"Ms Anderson was riding pillion when Mr Glass lost control of the scooter they were riding on after he braked suddenly to avoid ramming into the back of a car, that he said had braked suddenly Monday last week (May 8)."

Tailgating Laws everywhere in the world state you must travel at a safe breaking distance behind the vehicle in front dependant on speeds and conditions. There is not a set distance like "you must travel no closer than 10 metres", it's a safe braking distance dependant on conditions, if he lost control because he had to slam on the brakes it's pretty certain he wasn't a safe braking distance behind the car.....Tailgating. 

 

If you watch the video it didn't look to me like he was tailgating. Yes, he said he had to brake suddenly but maybe he just over reacted to seeing the pick  up brake causing him to loose control of the bike.The fact that he fell to the left is the reason he is alive to tell his tale, unfortunately for Ms Anderson she fell to the right and didn't stand a chance .

If it is correct that he has not been charged then I doubt the police think he was tailgating either.

Why all reports say he has been charged and yet he says he has not is a mystery.

 

 

[happyas]

8 minutes ago, Goldieinkathu said:

If you watch the video it didn't look to me like he was tailgating. Yes, he said he had to brake suddenly but maybe he just over reacted to seeing the pick  up brake causing him to loose control of the bike.The fact that he fell to the left is the reason he is alive to tell his tale, unfortunately for Ms Anderson she fell to the right and didn't stand a chance .

If it is correct that he has not been charged then I doubt the police think he was tailgating either.

Why all reports say he has been charged and yet he says he has not is a mystery.

 

 

Yes,spot on  and basically as i said in #111.

Some people just don't get it!

They seem to get "target fixation" and keep on raving on about that.

 

[MaxYakov]

On 5/20/2017 at 9:29 AM, ELVIS123456 said:

I agree that riding a bike while pregnant in a foreign country is stupid, and that riding (in same situation) without a helmet is stupid.

 

I also agree that in Thailand a bike is not 'legally' obliged to keep left, however most Thais think bikes are required to travel on the left to allow other faster vehicles to pass. Most bikes travel slower than cars/trucks, and many drivers will push bikes left if they get in front of them.  They believe bikes must travel on left side of road, and that includes the BiB who cannot be argued with as those who have 'encountered' them will testify (bribed yes, but not argued with). 

 

As anyone who has driven in Thailand for a while knows, what is legal is irrelevant. And that is always the issue when tourists ride bikes in Thailand - they dont know the real rules. Was the guy at fault for not being on the left side and therefore she would have fallen towards the gutter and not under the truck?  Was the guy going quickly and overtaking cars and made a mistake?  Who knows. I hope the truth will come out quickly.

 

But as someone has already said - anyone driving/riding in Thailand without camera/s is taking a bigger risk than is already being taken by driving/riding in the first place.  

"Most bikes travel slower than cars/trucks, and many drivers will push bikes left if they get in front of them." 

 

I don't know where you live in Thailand, but in Bangkok this is certainly not the case. Most motorcyclists, especially motorbike-taxis, are eager to prove that they are faster than cars and if they're on the left of the car it is probably to pass it. I'm in constant head-on collision situations on my narrow, yet speeder-infested soi, due to the motorbikes that are constantly passing the cars or even other, slower motorbikes.

 

The muscle bikes are continuously winding to full tilt on Sukhumvit Road and Rachadaphisek when they get a open piece of road and only nitro-fueled dragsters could keep up with them. You can bet your last baht that these folks aren't letting cars pass them.

[MaxYakov]

On 5/21/2017 at 7:45 PM, Goldieinkathu said:

If you watch the video it didn't look to me like he was tailgating. Yes, he said he had to brake suddenly but maybe he just over reacted to seeing the pick  up brake causing him to loose control of the bike.The fact that he fell to the left is the reason he is alive to tell his tale, unfortunately for Ms Anderson she fell to the right and didn't stand a chance .

If it is correct that he has not been charged then I doubt the police think he was tailgating either.

Why all reports say he has been charged and yet he says he has not is a mystery.

 

 

I had a couple of your lads lay their motorbike down its side at speed just to my left because the operator panic-braked - he was going too fast anyway for Sukhumvit Soi 7. They slid for several meters and just avoided sliding into/under a parked pickup truck. Sukhumvit Soi 7 is one-way, but had they been on a two-lane road they could easily have slid into oncoming traffic and gotten a lot more than just road-rash.

[cat handler]

On 21/05/2017 at 8:45 PM, Goldieinkathu said:

If you watch the video it didn't look to me like he was tailgating. Yes, he said he had to brake suddenly but maybe he just over reacted to seeing the pick  up brake causing him to loose control of the bike.The fact that he fell to the left is the reason he is alive to tell his tale, unfortunately for Ms Anderson she fell to the right and didn't stand a chance .

If it is correct that he has not been charged then I doubt the police think he was tailgating either.

Why all reports say he has been charged and yet he says he has not is a mystery.

 

 

As I've said Tailgating is not a set distance it's traveling so close that your not able to brake safely, pretty obvious he couldn't brake safely because he didn't. 

So your saying too that as the bike was falling one person fell to the left and the other to the right? Only way that could happen is if at the point he lost control she was leaning right and he was leaning left and one of them fell off the bike before it started tipping, very odd.

 

anyway you look at it he's responsible for riding without due care.

[MaxYakov]

9 minutes ago, cat handler said:

As I've said Tailgating is not a set distance it's traveling so close that your not able to brake safely, pretty obvious he couldn't brake safely because he didn't. 

So your saying too that as the bike was falling one person fell to the left and the other to the right? Only way that could happen is if at the point he lost control she was leaning right and he was leaning left and one of them fell off the bike before it started tipping, very odd.

 

anyway you look at it he's responsible for riding without due care.

I can see how, at a minimum, a pillion passenger could get ejected from a motorbike in the direction the bike was traveling if the passenger is only loosely attached to the bike and the bike made a sharp leftward, angular movement - Newton's First Law of motion [link]. Pillion passenger would continue in the same direction and speed he/she was traveling in before the sharp leftward deviation of the motorbike. It seem to me it would be even worse if the bike had started to the right and then angled sharply to the left, potentially placing the pillion passenger's trajectory pointing more into oncoming traffic when ejected.

 

This is only one of the reasons I avoid motorbikes like the Black Death. I don't like hugging the MB taxi operatorsto stay aboard in case of an erratic movement of the motorbike. Also, the rear grip pillion seat is not sufficient (nor my grip sufficient) to keep one on the bike under high-G loads either (unless one has the grip of a Terminator), IMHO.