What thailand is third world

[dazdaz]

I wondered today why Thailand is third world, and then it occurred to me, that I did'nt really understand what third world really meant, so I looked it up on the web.

http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/thir...d_countries.htm

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The term "First World" refers to so called developed, capitalist, industrial countries, roughly, a bloc of countries aligned with the United States with common political and economic interests: North America, Western Europe, Japan and Australia.

List of Countries of the "First World".

"Second World" refers to the (former) communist-socialist, industrial states, (formerly the Eastern bloc, the territory and sphere of influence of the Union of Soviet Socialists Republic) today: Russia, Eastern Europe (e.g., Poland) and some of the Turk States (e.g., Kazakhstan) as well as China, North Korea, and North Viet Nam.

"Third World" are all the other countries, often used to describe the developing countries of Africa, Asia and Latin America.

The term Third World includes as well capitalist (e.g., Venezuela) and communist (e.g., China) countries as very rich (e.g., Saudi Arabia) and very poor (e.g., Mali) countries.

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So now you know that China is second world, whilst Thailand is third world.

Regards

[jbowman1993]

Just browsing the archives. Thought this was interesting.

[chanchao]

Why does China get to be both second AND third?

In such cases I'd check Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_world

In short:

"Third World was a term first coined by Jawaharlal Nehru (First Prime Minister of India), originally to distinguish nations that aligned with neither the West or with the East during the Cold War, including many members of the Non-Aligned Movement. Today, however, the term is frequently used to denote nations with a low UN Human Development Index (HDI), independent of their political status. However, there is no objective definition of Third World or Third World country and the use of the term remains controversial."

Also, here is the UN Human Development list. You will notice that Thailand is in the top half. (or in the middle part if you will, so you might call that 'second world'. Then again, you might not.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...velopment_Index

Or in a map of the world:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f...map_current.png

None of this goes into the regional differences within each country, which is a debate in itself.

But if you want to persist in cutting the world in three classes, then Thailand is in second, worst parts of Africa in third and the 'West' + Japan is in first.

Carry on.

[ThaiPauly]

Why does China get to be both second AND third?

In such cases I'd check Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_world

In short:

"Third World was a term first coined by Jawaharlal Nehru (First Prime Minister of India), originally to distinguish nations that aligned with neither the West or with the East during the Cold War, including many members of the Non-Aligned Movement. Today, however, the term is frequently used to denote nations with a low UN Human Development Index (HDI), independent of their political status. However, there is no objective definition of Third World or Third World country and the use of the term remains controversial."

Also, here is the UN Human Development list. You will notice that Thailand is in the top half. (or in the middle part if you will, so you might call that 'second world'. Then again, you might not.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...velopment_Index

Or in a map of the world:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f...map_current.png

None of this goes into the regional differences within each country, which is a debate in itself.

But if you want to persist in cutting the world in three classes, then Thailand is in second, worst parts of Africa in third and the 'West' + Japan is in first.

Carry on.

Makes sense to me.

But IMO part of Thailand is first world and some third!

There really should be a 4th world catagory if you ask me (which you didn't )

[tom yum goong]

But IMO part of Thailand is first world and some third!

Which part of Thailand would u say is first world?

IMHO I dont think you can define parts of a country in this way. The country must be viewed as a whole: economic output, GDP per capita, income gap, literacy, life expectancy and other health indicators, along with what other indicators you can use to measure development.

Thailand is in no way comparable even to a second world country but if u spend your entire time in lower Sukhumvit and other more affluent parts of Bangkok i guess you could get that impression.

I also agree that if you want to put countries into categories there should be a "fourth world" category.

[PeaceBlondie]

The other set of terms is also poorly defined (and I just don't trust wikipedia any more): developed and undeveloped, or 'developed' and 'developing.' Much of central Africa and Central America has little chance of ever developing. Much of North America and western Europe is very much over-developed.

I'd say that in the following categories, Thailand developed a lot in the last 50 years: GDP per capita, motor vehicles (from oxcart to motosais), paved highway system (but not railroads), telecommunications (doesn't every peasant in Isaan have a mobi' now?), improved longevity and health care, huge reduction in the fertility rate. But Thailand is a very weak democracy/oligarchy, there's too much corruption, the educational system is completely in the toilet, there's virtually no critical thinking or long term planning or problem resolution techniques....

I love it. Maybe Thailand is 'partially developed."

[Heng]

IMO this type of labeling of first/second/third world... it's just another form of cheering "your team" on. In the end, do you yourself live like a first worlder or third worlder? Do you do your own cooking, iron your own shirts, clean your own toilets, wash your own cars (if you even own cars), paint your own houses (if you even own your home), etc? You have a majority of the population in "first world" countries who have to do these menial slave like tasks themselves.

I can afford to live back in the US or here... but I choose the place (for 10-11 months of the year anyway) where servants cost 1/8 of what they cost me in the US (one Indo maid... $1000 a month for coming to clean 3 times a week... that's 5 full time servants here).

Edited January 5, 2006 by Heng

[The Muji]

From what I learned in university (not so long ago) the terms 1st, 2nd and 3rd world are not really being used anymore. Thailand falls under what are called NICs - Newly Industrialized Countries. These are all the countries that are quite developed, but in a different way than the West and Japan, because they didn't industrialize in the late 19th/early 20th century but recently.

Does that make sense? Feel free to tear it apart if you disagree.

[Jai Dee]

Thailand falls under what are called NICs - Newly Industrialized Countries.

How PC...

[littleangel]

Third world much more easier way than the firs or second world ..Rak Thur Pra Thet Thai

[Plus]

It becomes much clearer if you use terms first rate, second rate, and third rate instead of "world".

[jbowman1993]

Since I dug up this topic, I suppose I am guilty of "troll by association".

My apologies

[Losangels]

How about Conspicious consumption=First world Government bureacracy=Third world.

[sadman]

As has already been stated, the term 'third world' was an expression coined by a politician for political reasons, and so shouldn't be confused with a term for a clearly-defined and researched topic. A similar term is that of 'Iron Curtain' (Winston Churchill), which has also stayed with us.

[Simbo]

Thailand will always remain 3rd world as long as they accept corruption as normal and acceptable practice.

And until they embrace western cultures, not just taking the best bits, then making it impossible for us to funtion equally here.

[Boon Mee]

Since I dug up this topic, I suppose I am guilty of "troll by association".

My apologies

No worries...it's a good topic for discussion.

3rd World is more like Somalia...not Thailand.

[kat]

IMO this type of labeling of first/second/third world... it's just another form of cheering "your team" on. In the end, do you yourself live like a first worlder or third worlder? Do you do your own cooking, iron your own shirts, clean your own toilets, wash your own cars (if you even own cars), paint your own houses (if you even own your home), etc? You have a majority of the population in "first world" countries who have to do these menial slave like tasks themselves.

I can afford to live back in the US or here... but I choose the place (for 10-11 months of the year anyway) where servants cost 1/8 of what they cost me in the US (one Indo maid... $1000 a month for coming to clean 3 times a week... that's 5 full time servants here).

But therein is one of the essential differences between developing and developed countries: the cost of labor, among other things. You cannot as easily acquire "slave labor" in developed countries as you can here because the cost of labor is more expensive, as is enforcement of rights (environmental, personal, and safety), rules, and regulations. Developed countries do not depend on a patron/client system of benefits, but on law.

And by the way, technically speaking from an international law and governance perspective as per the UN, World Bank, IMF and international insurance rating organizations, Thailand is exactly a middle-income developing country.

[Heng]

IMO this type of labeling of first/second/third world... it's just another form of cheering "your team" on. In the end, do you yourself live like a first worlder or third worlder? Do you do your own cooking, iron your own shirts, clean your own toilets, wash your own cars (if you even own cars), paint your own houses (if you even own your home), etc? You have a majority of the population in "first world" countries who have to do these menial slave like tasks themselves.

I can afford to live back in the US or here... but I choose the place (for 10-11 months of the year anyway) where servants cost 1/8 of what they cost me in the US (one Indo maid... $1000 a month for coming to clean 3 times a week... that's 5 full time servants here).

But therein is one of the essential differences between developing and developed countries: the cost of labor, among other things. You cannot as easily acquire "slave labor" in developed countries as you can here because the cost of labor is more expensive, as is enforcement of rights (environmental, personal, and safety), rules, and regulations. Developed countries do not depend on a patron/client system of benefits, but on law.

And by the way, technically speaking from an international law and governance perspective as per the UN, World Bank, IMF and international insurance rating organizations, Thailand is exactly a middle-income developing country.

hello again Kat.

I'm not saying there aren't differences. I was saying that most (not all... and probably not you, young Kat) people who are fixated on these labels, particularly of Thailand as an Xth world country do NOT really care what Xth is it. IMO these folks have issues with the quality of their own lives and need someone to fault for their own shortcomings (Thailand will always be a third world country as long as I: have to do visa runs, can't own property, am renting this cheap a** apartment, etc.).

[mittheimp]

As a geography teacher in London I can tell you that the terms 'Third world' as well as 'first' and 'second' are no longer used in secondary schools, i suppose as they somehow suggest a ranking of importance. Now the terms MEDC and LEDC are used - more/less economically developed countries. Thailand clearly is a LEDC, all be it one that is at a higher stage of development than most. A lot of the former 'second world' would also find themselves classified as LEDC countries. Some countries are hard to rank - Poland, South Africa, Malaysia, Brazil are examples from different continents. GDP, infant mortality, debt, literacy, life expectancy are some of the factors used to indicate the stage of a countries development.

Walk around parts of Bangkok and it is as developed as anywhere in the world, i lived in south Wales for a bit and that was truly the most depressing and poverty stricken place I have spent time in, and Aborigines living in and around the town of Katherine in the Northern territory have a lower life expectancy than the average Cambodian - - so the terms are used as general indicators for a nation as a whole as everywhere has anomalies and pockets of prosperity and deprivation. It should also be remembered that the terms are really only designed to help explain global economic development patterns and not actual 'clubs' that require membership.

Hope that helps!

[spear]

A good indicater to show that thailand is a first world country is our politicians must change what they always do from the interior corruption to the world class corruption

[cathyy]

A fast rule of thumb for 'third world" status is the lack of a middle class. There will be the rich and the poor.

The US is a first world country striving for third world status.

[PeaceBlondie]

In my opinion, there's a real disadvantage to being an overly developed country. Labor is far too expensive; families need two bread earners but you're lucky to even find an intact nuclear family; far too many laws and regulations are very rigidly enforced; too much red tape; too much consumerism; too much individualism and no community; family structures destroyed and unreplaceable....we could go on and on.

Thailand needs to develop more, but chances are, the way Thailand will develop, may do more harm than good.

[charles]

IMO this type of labeling of first/second/third world... it's just another form of cheering "your team" on. In the end, do you yourself live like a first worlder or third worlder? Do you do your own cooking, iron your own shirts, clean your own toilets, wash your own cars (if you even own cars), paint your own houses (if you even own your home), etc? You have a majority of the population in "first world" countries who have to do these menial slave like tasks themselves.

Gross oversimplification and I'd dare say by emphasizing the above you are indeed engaging in just another form of cheering "your team" on.

Personally I think there are limitations to how much one can, despite plenty of personal wealth, put oneself in a "bubble", kind of immune from the environment one is living in. I'm sure you or members of your family/clan will have experienced this in the past.

[Heng]

IMO this type of labeling of first/second/third world... it's just another form of cheering "your team" on. In the end, do you yourself live like a first worlder or third worlder? Do you do your own cooking, iron your own shirts, clean your own toilets, wash your own cars (if you even own cars), paint your own houses (if you even own your home), etc? You have a majority of the population in "first world" countries who have to do these menial slave like tasks themselves.

Gross oversimplification and I'd dare say by emphasizing the above you are indeed engaging in just another form of cheering "your team" on.

Personally I think there are limitations to how much one can, despite plenty of personal wealth, put oneself in a "bubble", kind of immune from the environment one is living in. I'm sure you or members of your family/clan will have experienced this in the past.

My emphasis was actually: 'I was saying that most (not all... and probably not you, young Kat) people who are fixated on these labels, particularly of Thailand as an Xth world country do NOT really care what Xth is it. IMO these folks have issues with the quality of their own lives and need someone to fault for their own shortcomings (Thailand will always be a third world country as long as I: have to do visa runs, can't own property, am renting this cheap a** apartment, etc.).'

The slave example was more tongue in cheek.

And as long as that bubble is the status quo for much of mankind (and certainly every single country I've visited), I'm okay with it.

[charles]

people who are fixated on labels... these folks have issues

Mmm, now who does that remind me of?

[kat]

I was saying that most (not all... and probably not you, young Kat)

Is this how you try to backstep out of a debate with me?

Walk around parts of Bangkok and it is as developed as anywhere in the world, i lived in south Wales for a bit and that was truly the most depressing and poverty stricken place I have spent time in, and Aborigines living in and around the town of Katherine in the Northern territory have a lower life expectancy than the average Cambodian - - so the terms are used as general indicators for a nation as a whole as everywhere has anomalies and pockets of prosperity and deprivation. It should also be remembered that the terms are really only designed to help explain global economic development patterns and not actual 'clubs' that require membership.

As someone with a master's degree in development I would mostly agree with the above description, except I would add there are a bunch of policy indicators such as governance, legal institutions, and enforcement/regulatory environments to consider as well.

A fast rule of thumb for 'third world" status is the lack of a middle class. There will be the rich and the poor.

The US is a first world country striving for third world status.

Yes, I agree with both statements.

[Heng]

I was saying that most (not all... and probably not you, young Kat)

Is this how you try to backstep out of a debate with me?

That's two-step, not backstep.

[meadish_sweetball]

Heng Astaire.

[PeaceBlondie]

Is this how you try to backstep out of a debate with me?

That's two-step, not backstep.

Hey, Heng, I must confess - in all those years in Texas, I never learned to two-step! At least, that was my excuse for not dancing the last time I was in Houston, when I was listening to my ex-wife and our son play in a gay country and western dance hall.

So, Heng, do you give two-step lessons in Bangkok, and where do I sign up? And by the way, are there any gay country and western dance halls in Bangkok? At least there were Vietnamese rock and roll night clubs in Alief/Sharpstown.