Definition Of Condominium

[piersbeckett]

In thai law what constitutes a condominium - could it be, for instance, a self-contained apartment above a shop or the self-contained upper storey of a two storey town house?

[Artisan]

In thai law what constitutes a condominium - could it be, for instance, a self-contained apartment above a shop or the self-contained upper storey of a two storey town house?

Yes.

A condominium is a form of home ownership in which individual units of a larger complex are sold, not rented. These units may be renovated apartments, townhouses or even commercial warehouses. Contrary to popular belief, the word 'condominium' does not apply to the type of unit itself, but the legal ownership arrangement. Any multi-unit structure can 'go condominium', meaning occupants must either vacate the premises or purchase their apartments outright.

[ProThaiExpat]

A more technical and legalistic way of looking at it is that the the "condo" owner owns all of his unit from the center of his exterior walls. The exterior of his walls, the roof and all other areas in the condominium complex not meeting the above individual unit description, (referred to as common areas) are collectively owned by all of the owners of the individual units, that is each individual unit owner owns a share of the common areas in an amount equal to what his unit represents in the total number of units in the complex.

Thus in a 50 unit condominium complex, each individual owner owns an undivided one fiftieth of the common area and his own unit entirely.

As can be appreciated, the Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions that form the legal framework for the condominium association is the most important document and often spells the downfall of many condominium associations due to poor draftmanship, poor enforcement regimes, etc.

The power of the Condo Association, through its individual owner members, is limited by the CC&Rs and run down buildings are a result of weak condo documents or laws supporting condo ownership and enforcement of condo laws, especially levies for common area maintneance.

The usual explanation for why Thailand has so many run down condo buildings, I have encountered, is weak Thai condo law, although it may well be poor condo association agreements and weak enforcement of levies with poor legal remedies.

[skippybangkok]

So... If for example there are 5 houses on a plot of land which share a common area ( i.e. car park / pool or garden ), would that qualify as a "condo" ?

[quiksilva]

Condominium is a legal term and is defined in the Condominium Act of 1979.

To register the building as a condominium is not straight forward it will have to comply with certain building regulations, for example it will have to have clearly defined common and private areas. The full list of these regulations are available from your local provincial authority. eg BMA.

That being said condominiums are not limited to high rise towers, even housing developments (if built to the required building regulations) can be registered as condominiums and subject to all the same laws as their high rise cousins.

The Lofts Sathorn and the Trees Sathorn are both good (if pricey) examples, but it is rarely done, which I think is a shame as many foreigners would like to own a house and this is a genuinely legal way of being able to do just that.

http://www.theloftsbangkok.com/sathorn/introduction.html

[piersbeckett]

Condominium is a legal term and is defined in the Condominium Act of 1979.

To register the building as a condominium is not straight forward it will have to comply with certain building regulations, for example it will have to have clearly defined common and private areas. The full list of these regulations are available from your local provincial authority. eg BMA.

That being said condominiums are not limited to high rise towers, even housing developments (if built to the required building regulations) can be registered as condominiums and subject to all the same laws as their high rise cousins.

The Lofts Sathorn and the Trees Sathorn are both good (if pricey) examples, but it is rarely done, which I think is a shame as many foreigners would like to own a house and this is a genuinely legal way of being able to do just that.

http://www.theloftsbangkok.com/sathorn/introduction.html

quicksilva - many thanks for your reply, most helpful - your last paragraph illustrates the point that promted me to ask the question.

[RAZZELL]

Condominium is a legal term and is defined in the Condominium Act of 1979.

To register the building as a condominium is not straight forward it will have to comply with certain building regulations, for example it will have to have clearly defined common and private areas. The full list of these regulations are available from your local provincial authority. eg BMA.

That being said condominiums are not limited to high rise towers, even housing developments (if built to the required building regulations) can be registered as condominiums and subject to all the same laws as their high rise cousins.

The Lofts Sathorn and the Trees Sathorn are both good (if pricey) examples, but it is rarely done, which I think is a shame as many foreigners would like to own a house and this is a genuinely legal way of being able to do just that.

http://www.theloftsbangkok.com/sathorn/introduction.html

Is there a link that works a bit quicker than that one???

[ProThaiExpat]

In the U.S. there are many condo developments that consists of free standing houses. They are especially attractive to people who don't want to have the responsibility for building and grounds maintenance.

The "Leisure Worlds" are an example of large housing estates that are condominium developments.

The key to differentiating condo vs. other forms of common ownership, such as co-ops for example, is that the individual owner actually has title to his unit in a condo development. As most know, in Thailand, 49% of a condo development can be owned by foreighners so as suggested, a housing development built in accordance with condominium rules in Thailand would be a great way for falang to actually own a house in their own name.

[Artisan]

As most know, in Thailand, 49% of a condo development can be owned by foreighners so as suggested, a housing development built in accordance with condominium rules in Thailand would be a great way for falang to actually own a house in their own name.

Yes PTE, that does sound a great way for a foreigner to own a house in Thailand but why doesn't it happen.....at least I've never seen it happen?

[quiksilva]

It does happen, but rarely. Those two developments that I mentioned are Juristic Condominiums. There are a few others in Bangkok, such as a development opposite Bangkok Garden on Narathiwas Soi 24 (whose name escapes me at the moment), all the houses are linked by a common garden with a swimming pool that is raised above ground level with parking underneath, not the best design actually but just another example to underline my point.

I have often wondered why more firms dont do this. I asked around and it seems that building regulations restrict the design and layout of the project, which eats into profitability, however in the current climate where there are fewer avenues open to developers that wish to cater to the farang market it is my guess that we could see more projects of this nature going forward.

PS Sorry about that link, it might be slow due to that earthquake in Taiwan, perhaps try the developer's site over at www.kuduthailand.com

Edited December 28, 2006 by quiksilva

[Artisan]

It does happen, but rarely. Those two developments that I mentioned are Juristic Condominiums. There are a few others in Bangkok, such as a development opposite Bangkok Garden on Narathiwas Soi 24 (whose name escapes me at the moment), all the houses are linked by a common garden with a swimming pool that is raised above ground level with parking underneath, not the best design actually but just another example to underline my point.

I have often wondered why more firms dont do this. I asked around and it seems that building regulations restrict the design and layout of the project, which eats into profitability, however in the current climate where there are fewer avenues open to developers that wish to cater to the farang market it is my guess that we could see more projects of this nature going forward.

Thank you quiksilva. Now I understand and I think that you might well be right about seeing an increasing number of projects of this nature.

[ilyushin]

shared property!

[CRUNCHER]

It does happen, but rarely. Those two developments that I mentioned are Juristic Condominiums. There are a few others in Bangkok, such as a development opposite Bangkok Garden on Narathiwas Soi 24 (whose name escapes me at the moment), all the houses are linked by a common garden with a swimming pool that is raised above ground level with parking underneath, not the best design actually but just another example to underline my point.

I have often wondered why more firms dont do this. I asked around and it seems that building regulations restrict the design and layout of the project, which eats into profitability, however in the current climate where there are fewer avenues open to developers that wish to cater to the farang market it is my guess that we could see more projects of this nature going forward.

PS Sorry about that link, it might be slow due to that earthquake in Taiwan, perhaps try the developer's site over at www.kuduthailand.com

I thought this was tried about 10 to 12 years ago. They were called "lateral condominiums" If I remember correctly this practice was banned. If it is such a good idea (and if workable it is) and legal I am surprised that this is not the norm - especially in places like Pattaya.

[ProThaiExpat]

Has anyone reading this thread bought a house in an "Estate" in which there is a swimming pool??

There is a trend in the new developments to include "amenities". I wonder how those "common areas" are handled legally??

Who owns the swimming pool once the developer is gone? It certainly fits the purpose of a "common area" and I am sure the assessments paid annually by the homeowners for maintenance include pool maintenance fees.

Some developments have parks or common playgrounds. They may be treated the same way as pools in Thailand. Anyone know for sure?

Edited December 28, 2006 by ProThaiExpat

[quiksilva]

Ok I have done my homework this time and some apologies are in order, the Kudu projects are not in fact condos. They are Nithi Bukom Moo Baan (Juristic Villages) not Nithi Bukom (Juristic) Condominiums.

However, here are some projects that I am absolutely certain are 'lateral condominiums'; Natural Place on Sukhumvit Soi 31,

Villa 49 on Sukhumvit 49, and that property on Narathiwat 24 whose name I still cant recall but is something like Flora Place. There are others too.

All of these share the same design features so as to comply with condominium building regulations. It seems that to be a condo in Thailand the whole development has to be built as a single structure.

This is why those properties I mentioned have a common theme in their designs. Their houses are linked by a common structure. In those examples they all have a central garden and swimming pool that is built as a floor raised above ground level, surrounded by the houses that are physically connected to that common space. Car parking and access to the homes are on the ground floor.

It obviously costs alot to build structures this way and when developers have other options (like offerring long leases) that allow for more flexible cheaper designs they will go for that route. Furthermore, in areas like Bangkok where land is expensive is makes more sense to build a high rise tower, and maximise sellable space.

PTE They are handled as Juristic Villages, Moo Baans, annual service fees are levied by the Juristic Management who also take care of the estate.

Edited December 28, 2006 by quiksilva

[CRUNCHER]

Ok I have done my homework this time and some apologies are in order, the Kudu projects are not in fact condos. They are Nithi Bukom Moo Baan (Juristic Villages) not Nithi Bukom (Juristic) Condominiums.

However, here are some projects that I am absolutely certain are 'lateral condominiums'; Natural Place on Sukhumvit Soi 31,

Villa 49 on Sukhumvit 49, and that property on Narathiwat 24 whose name I still cant recall but is something like Flora Place. There are others too.

All of these share the same design features so as to comply with condominium building regulations. It seems that to be a condo in Thailand the whole development has to be built as a single structure.

This is why those properties I mentioned have a common theme in their designs. Their houses are linked by a common structure. In those examples they all have a central garden and swimming pool that is built as a floor raised above ground level, surrounded by the houses that are physically connected to that common space. Car parking and access to the homes are on the ground floor.

It obviously costs alot to build structures this way and when developers have other options (like offerring long leases) that allow for more flexible cheaper designs they will go for that route. Furthermore, in areas like Bangkok where land is expensive is makes more sense to build a high rise tower, and maximise sellable space.

PTE They are handled as Juristic Villages, Moo Baans, annual service fees are levied by the Juristic Management who also take care of the estate.

The case that I referred to was a long time ago and I am ready to accept that my memory is faulty. As I remember, however, the developer put down a massive concrete slab and built the houses on the slab calling them, as I said, “lateral condominiums”. I also seem to remember it required the Thai equivalent of an act of parliament to legalize the situation, but developers were told “never again”.

Point is you will need to be very careful. Developers in Thailand are very good at trying to find loopholes, but often less successful in actually finding them.

[quiksilva]

Well it does indeed sound to very similar to what you have described, its of course entirely possible that this ban was enforced after these projects were built. I'll do some digging around and report back if I hear more.

[fxm88]

See also: "Detached Condos In Thailand?"

Edited December 28, 2006 by fxm88

[ProThaiExpat]

quicksilver: Please elaborate on Juristic Village. I can only assume that its a legal entity, do developers stay involved? My developement gets an annual fee from me for garbage and general maintenance. After four years, they suddenly started putting up soi signs, painting the entry gate and an unpainted perimeter wall for the first time.

It is the office of the developer at his new development that collects the annual fees and it his construction foreman, who lives in the former project office here, who works at the new development but is available here when problems arise.

They did have one meeting of the owners, no idea what happened.

My retaining wall has started to give way and they were prompt to respond and promise repairs after New Years.

Thanks for all the detail you can provide.

[quiksilva]

A Juristic Village is similar to a Juristic Condominium in many respects. A committee is normally elected from all the owners who together manage the estate, often employing an estate manager whose job it is to take care of the day to day tasks, hire and fire service providers (guards, cleaners, handymen etc).

It differs in that the houses in an estate can transfer before the Nithi Bukom Moo Baan is registered. Some developers prefer to do this later so that they can ensure that their subsidaries are appointed to take care of the estate. Eg Sansiri, with their Property Plus outfit. So if it has not yet been regsitered the developer will often play an active role in the ongoing upkeep of the estate. They might ask the owners whether in fact you want it registered so you can take care of it yourself or if you prefer to keep them on. It can be a good thing to let the developer take care of it, but it depends on the developer.

Furthermore, once regsitered, the developer will move on and will no longer have any legal obligation to do anything with the estate. The onus will then fall on the Juristic Management Committee, if they are doing a poor job the best thing to do is vote them out in the next AGM / EGM and either vote somebody else in or have your wife stand for election (not sure whether foreigners can stand for election in a Village, with the house ownership laws etc...).

The AGM should be held 6 months after the Village is registered. An AGM in a Juristic Village differs again from a condominium as it can be held with a quorum of just 10-20%, whereas the minimum for a Condo is 30%.

Edited December 29, 2006 by quiksilva

[Artisan]

The AGM should be held 6 months after the Village is registered. An AGM in a Juristic Village differs again from a condominium as it can be held with a quorum of just 10-20%, whereas the minimum for a Condo is 30%.

I believe that the minimum for a Condo is 25%...is it not? That was according to information given to me by my lawyer just last week.