What are the correct steps to travel and stay indefinitely in Thailand for a dual citizen (US/Thai) with two passports having different last names?

[Arkady]

6 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

Indeed, rule one of holding multiple passports "never show more than one to immigration (or any official other than check-in agents)".

 

A mate who (like me) holds multiple UK passports showed the wrong one to an official in Malaysia. Upon being asked where his entry stamp was he dug out the correct passport. The official went ballistic informing him that nobody could have more than one passport and promptly confiscated and destroyed one (luckily the one without the stamp). No issue other than cost getting the "lost" one replaced.

 

 

 

LOL.  I used to have two Brit passports and once in a rush sent the wrong one to Thai Immigration to get my permanent residence re-entry permit endorsed before going on a trip.  Immigration failed to notice it was a passport that had no Thai stamps in it or that the number was different from the one on the application form.  They just obliged by stamping the re-entry permit into it.  I noticed my error when I got it back and thought I had better correct the mistake pronto as it was likely to lead to all kinds of problems in future. So I went down to Soi Suan Plu and confessed.  They were a bit embarrassed that it had escaped their three levels of scrutiny but told me with a smile that the problem could be quickly corrected in time for my trip without fuss, on payment of a B2,000 contribution to the Immigration officers' ball.  A lot better than the hysterical Malaysian reaction of willfully destroying another government's property without cause.      

[QuantumMech]

On 5/26/2017 at 0:06 AM, Arkady said:

You need to throw a completed TM arrival form into the basket at the automatic gate, which she may not have as you pick them up from the airline when you depart Thailand.  I think they have some lying around or you just say you have lost it and get another.  If this is worrisome, get a friend to pick up an extra one and mail it to her in advance.

Which form is this? I should be getting my first Thai passport soon (I was born in the US to a Thai parent and recently claimed my Thai citizenship) and am hoping to use the automatic gates the next time I go to Thailand. Is it the "TM.6 Arrival Card" seen at the top of this picture? If so, I was pretty sure I got one of those on the plane to Thailand.

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, QuantumMech said:

Which form is this? I should be getting my first Thai passport soon (I was born in the US to a Thai parent and recently claimed my Thai citizenship) and am hoping to use the automatic gates the next time I go to Thailand. Is it the "TM.6 Arrival Card" seen at the top of this picture? If so, I was pretty sure I got one of those on the plane to Thailand.

That pic is of the standard TM6 arrival/departure card.

When Thais leave the country they use a TM6 arrival/departure card and immigration stamps the arrival part of the card and gives it back to them. Then when entering the country they present that card to immigration. You can complete the arrival card they give you on the plane since you will not have one.

[QuantumMech]

11 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

When Thais leave the country they use a TM6 arrival/departure card and immigration stamps the arrival part of the card and gives back to them. Then when entering the country they present that card to immigration. You can complete the arrival card they give you on the plane since you will not have one.

Ah, I see... thanks for the info!

 

Hopefully I won't have any problems, but in case I need to ask for a supervisor, what's the proper Thai term for the person I should ask for? ผู้จัดการ? ผู้ควบคุม? ซุปเปอร์ไวเซอร์? Something else?

[Arkady]

9 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That pic is of the standard TM6 arrival/departure card.

When Thais leave the country they use a TM6 arrival/departure card and immigration stamps the arrival part of the card and gives it back to them. Then when entering the country they present that card to immigration. You can complete the arrival card they give you on the plane since you will not have one.

Yes, of course, she can just ask for a form on the plane before arrival and tear off the departures side and just fill in the arrivals side.  If you exit Thailand via the automatic gates as a Thai, you are supposed to throw the departures part of the form into the plastic basket on top of the gate and Immigration don't stamp the arrivals part of the form because you have no contact with an Immigration officer.  You throw in the arrivals part of the form into the basket on the way in.  It doesn't matter if the arrivals form you use doesn't match up with a departures form with the same serial number.  No one checks or cares.  My wife and I have several times found that we forgot to throw either the departures form or arrivals form into the basket at the auto gates, so we just threw them away later and there was no come back.  Sometimes there is someone checking you throw the form into the basket and sometimes not.       

 

[blackson]

On 2017-05-25 at 9:54 AM, ubonjoe said:

The US keeps no records of its citizens leaving the country. They don''t even do a entry stamp for citizens.

the hell they don't!

 

Not sure where you get your facts, but do check APIS.

[ubonjoe]

12 minutes ago, blackson said:

the hell they don't!

 

Not sure where you get your facts, but do check APIS.

I have old US passports that were used for many entries to the US that don't have a single entry stamp in them.

APIS does not apply for US citizens. See: https://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors

[Arkady]

18 minutes ago, blackson said:

the hell they don't!

 

Not sure where you get your facts, but do check APIS.

The US doesn't check passports on the way out but presumably have access to information from airlines.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, Arkady said:

The US doesn't check passports on the way out but presumably have access to information from airlines.

They would have to contact the airlines to get it though for US citizens.

[medtechbrah]

Thanks all for the replies.

 

I just have one problem out of all of this, which is the part where she's coming back to US.

 

So, she should book the flight back to USA with her US name. IIRC, the ticket counter person and departure immigration is the same person at the airline counter (We just got back from Thailand trip recently, and I remember checking in bags and getting tickets from our airline counter, then showed passport/ticket before going up escalator and again at top of escalator (These last two checks were super informal).

 

My questions:

 

1. Is it necessary to show Thai passport when departing at departure immigration (aka airline counter) at all?

 

2. If they question why there's no visa stamp, then she could just show her Thai Passport? The name differences could be solved with some paper work (marriage/divorce/birth certificates, etc) I'd reckon.  

[Weddings Parties Anything]

7 hours ago, medtechbrah said:

Thanks all for the replies.

 

I just have one problem out of all of this, which is the part where she's coming back to US.

 

So, she should book the flight back to USA with her US name. IIRC, the ticket counter person and departure immigration is the same person at the airline counter (We just got back from Thailand trip recently, and I remember checking in bags and getting tickets from our airline counter, then showed passport/ticket before going up escalator and again at top of escalator (These last two checks were super informal).

 

My questions:

 

1. Is it necessary to show Thai passport when departing at departure immigration (aka airline counter) at all?

 

2. If they question why there's no visa stamp, then she could just show her Thai Passport? The name differences could be solved with some paper work (marriage/divorce/birth certificates, etc) I'd reckon.  

You are mixing things up. 

 

Airline check in and immigration are separate. 

 

At baggage check in, show BOTH passports. US passport shows right of entry to the US. Thai passport shows they need to be given a departure card.

 

A boarding pass will be issued.

 

fill in the departure card using the information in the THAI passport.

 

Pass through thai immigration showing Thai passport, departure card and boarding pass. 

 

These days thai citizens generally just go through the electronic passport gates so no one checks. But even if they get processed manually immigration doesn't care. You have a boarding pass for the plane and a passport to be stamped out on. That is all they worry about.

 

Dont worry about 'stamp trails' in passports. In this day and age, many countries dont stamp people in and out, so immigration in Thailand and most places on the world simply doesn't care about what stamps you may or may not have. 

 

[QuantumMech]

22 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

They would have to contact the airlines to get it though for US citizens.

I guess this is veering off-topic, but the airlines send APIS info to US Customs and Border Protection for all passengers. There's nothing different about US citizens.

 

22 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I have old US passports that were used for many entries to the US that don't have a single entry stamp in them.

APIS does not apply for US citizens. See: https://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors

That link doesn't seem to mention anything about APIS. Here are the full details of APIS pre-departure rules: https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/apis_pre_departure_3.pdf

As the Summary says, airlines must send the passenger list to CBP no later than 30 minutes prior to closing the aircraft doors. And on page 48334, middle column, there's a response to a question about how the rule applies to people traveling to/from places like offshore oil rigs. The answer is that the APIS rule only applies to travel between a US place and a place outside the US, and that existing laws already define platforms attached to the US portion of the continental shelf as being in the US, but that whenever you do travel between a US place and place outside the US, "data must be transmitted for all persons, i.e., all travelers (crew members, workers, and others) regardless of citizenship or status under immigration laws…" (emphasis added).

 

So blackson is right, and I mentioned this back in post #9 too—while there's nobody stamping your passport when you leave the US, the US does collect the details of who's leaving from the airlines.

[Mrjlh]

My only question is why did she feel compelled to change her married name back to her Thai name? Unless she didn't want Thai folks to think she was not Thai.  If she had kept her married name on her Thai passport it becomes a mute point. Once inside Thailand she could have changed her Thai ID to whatever she wants. It's only used in Thailand no where else. It would simplify everything. Just having an American name on her Thai passport does not make her any less a Thai when entering Thailand. It's a Thai Passport.

[IMA_FARANG]

In general, if you have dual nationality......Thai/foreigner.....nationality, then your best choice is to enter on the Thai passport on arrival in Thailand, and exit Thailand on the same passport.

Use your foreign   home country passport to book flights and to enter or exit your foreign  home country  passport in your home country.

As another poster in this topic said, then put your foreign  passport away and d not show it to Thai immigration on entry.

Don't confuse them, you are as Thai as they are.

 

 

[Arkady]

Interestingly the British have started to refuse to issue new passports to anyone who has another passport in another name.  This used not to be a problem and many people like the OP's mother had a British name in their British passport and another name in a Thai or other foreign passport.  Dual or multiple nationality is explicitly permitted in the UK Nationality Act and previously they never took any interest in whatever other nationalities people had when they applied for new passports.  Now, they ask applicants to submit copies of any other passports they hold and warn on the new application form guidelines that the British passport won't be issued, if the names on all aren't exactly the same.  Applicants with different names have a choice of changing either the British or the foreign name or not getting a new British passport.  I guess that people applying in the UK may be able to get away with not declaring their other passports but, if they are naturalised, like the OP's mother, the passport office might ask for evidence they haven't retained their former former foreign passports.  Similarly people applying abroad, who now have to be resident in the country they apply from, might be asked how they stay in that country with no visa. 

 

Perhaps this is a bit of an invasion of privacy but the UK is now the target of a modern urban terrorist insurgency and many of the insurgents, like the Manchester bomber are British born to immigrant parents and also have other passports from the countries of their parents' countries of origin which may be in other names.  To me the UK action is logical from a security standpoint.  They don't want people with alternate identities and they don't want people transferring their alternate identity to someone else either.  

 

I would guess that other Western countries will follow suit quite soon and refuse to issue new passports to people who are using different names in other passports.  It makes sense in cases like the OP's mother to change names, if they plan to keep the Western passport in future, rather hit a crisis when they are unexpectedly refused a new passport, as is now happening to people at the Trendy Building.          

[Eff1n2ret]

1 hour ago, Arkady said:

Interestingly the British have started to refuse to issue new passports to anyone who has another passport in another name.

Ah, I didn't know that. Last week my wife wrote to the Passport Office in the UK (also to the DWP), the object being to get a letter with our married name and our address here, as she has no other recent documents in her married name. I'll be interested to see what advice they give. It's no big deal if she has to change to her Thai family name (better than changing all her Thai stuff ), I just hope they make it a simple process. Her UK passport doesn't expire until November, so we're not panicking.

 

Edit:- Oh dear, I've just looked on the Passport office website which says:-

 

"If you have a non-British passport

If you have dual citizenship (‘dual nationality’) and have a non-British passport, the name on your non-British passport must match the name and gender you want on your British passport.

If it doesn’t, change the details on your non-British passport before you apply for a new British passport."

 

I don't think we want to do that, but I'll wait and see what the Passport Office says. I suppose they'll insist on the above, but I suppose she could change her name by deed-poll to her Thai name.

Edited May 28, 2017 by Eff1n2ret

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

Ah, I didn't know that. Last week my wife wrote to the Passport Office in the UK (also to the DWP), the object being to get a letter with our married name and our address here, as she has no other recent documents in her married name. I'll be interested to see what advice they give. It's no big deal if she has to change to her Thai family name (better than changing all her Thai stuff ), I just hope they make it a simple process. Her UK passport doesn't expire until November, so we're not panicking.

 

Edit:- Oh dear, I've just looked on the Passport office website which says:-

 

"If you have a non-British passport

If you have dual citizenship (‘dual nationality’) and have a non-British passport, the name on your non-British passport must match the name and gender you want on your British passport.

If it doesn’t, change the details on your non-British passport before you apply for a new British passport."

 

I don't think we want to do that, but I'll wait and see what the Passport Office says. I suppose they'll insist on the above, but I suppose she could change her name by deed-poll to her Thai name.

 

I just noticed from your post that the gender needs to match too.  So, if a Thai went to the UK and got naturalised as a Brit and also changed their sex legally, they would have to change it back again in the UK because they can't legally change it in their Thai documents.  The only alternative as far as the British government is concerned is to either renounce Thai nationality or, at least, not have a valid Thai passport perhaps. (It might be tricky to let just let a Thai passport expire, if this is the case, as it might involve having no passport at all while waiting for this to happen, as the Thai Embassy is unlikely to be sympathetic and just cancel the Thai passport.)   I doubt it affects a large number of people but it sounds like a human rights issue to me.  In the current environment where racism is now politically correct and immigrants are to blame for everything, I am sure the British government will not give a damn.   If they object to people having same sex marriages not registered in Thai documents and force couples to get divorced, there would be more of a hullabaloo but that is unlikely to happen, as passports no longer show marital sstatus.

[medtechbrah]

On 5/27/2017 at 10:09 PM, Weddings Parties Anything said:

You are mixing things up. 

 

Airline check in and immigration are separate. 

 

At baggage check in, show BOTH passports. US passport shows right of entry to the US. Thai passport shows they need to be given a departure card.

 

A boarding pass will be issued.

 

fill in the departure card using the information in the THAI passport.

 

Pass through thai immigration showing Thai passport, departure card and boarding pass. 

 

These days thai citizens generally just go through the electronic passport gates so no one checks. But even if they get processed manually immigration doesn't care. You have a boarding pass for the plane and a passport to be stamped out on. That is all they worry about.

 

Dont worry about 'stamp trails' in passports. In this day and age, many countries dont stamp people in and out, so immigration in Thailand and most places on the world simply doesn't care about what stamps you may or may not have. 

What would happen if she only show US passport when flying back to US? Would she still get a departure card to be filled out?
 

I just got back from Thailand last month and I could have sworn there is no thai immigration to show passport, departure card, and boarding pass.

 

My departure went like this:

 

1. Check-in at airline counter (checked bags, get tickets by providing US passport). I do not recall filling out a thai departure card here.

2. Showed ticket and passport to lady at bottom of escalator.

3. Showed ticket only at another lady on top of escalator

4. Get in line for TSA and X-ray

5. Go to Terminal for departure.

6. Board airplane with ticket and passport

 

Again, I am not aware of a formal Thai departure immigration booth when flying back to US.

 

If I'm mistaken or have crappy memories, then please correct me. Otherwise, my question would still be 'is it necessary to show Thai Passport (if not questioned) when traveling back to US?'

 

Thanks again to everyone who' has replied thus far.

Edited May 30, 2017 by medtechbrah

[Mattd]

Departing Thailand requires clearing immigration for all passengers, Thai or Foreign, if you not in Fast track, then this is done after security, so back down a set of escalators.

You, as a foreigner would have been given a TM6 most likely on the plane and upon arrival the arrival part is retained by immigration and the departure part left in your passport and then retained by immigration at departure, a Thai passport holder is presented the TM.6 at check in and fills in both the departure and arrival parts, immigration retain the departure part and the arrival part is left with their passport for the next arrival in to Thailand.

 

She should enter AND depart Thailand on her Thai passport, no reason to do anything but, if she came in on her Thai passport and then tried to depart on her US passport, then this would lead to confusion and problems, as there would be no entry in to Thailand recorded on her US passport.

[Weddings Parties Anything]

1 hour ago, medtechbrah said:

What would happen if she only show US passport when flying back to US? Would she still get a departure card to be filled out?
 

I just got back from Thailand last month and I could have sworn there is no thai immigration to show passport, departure card, and boarding pass.

 

My departure went like this:

 

1. Check-in at airline counter (checked bags, get tickets by providing US passport). I do not recall filling out a thai departure card here.

2. Showed ticket and passport to lady at bottom of escalator.

3. Showed ticket only at another lady on top of escalator

4. Get in line for TSA and X-ray

5. Go to Terminal for departure.

6. Board airplane with ticket and passport

 

Again, I am not aware of a formal Thai departure immigration booth when flying back to US.

 

If I'm mistaken or have crappy memories, then please correct me. Otherwise, my question would still be 'is it necessary to show Thai Passport (if not questioned) when traveling back to US?'

 

Thanks again to everyone who' has replied thus far.

You have an 'incomplete' memory.

 

At Suvanaphumi, between steps 4 and 5, you depart x-ray, and then go down a set of escalators again into the immigration hall. Thai passport holders turn left and proceed through the electronic gates, everyone else turns right and clears immigration at those desks.

 

So she will have to show her Thai passport to either an immigration officer to get stamped out, or if she goes though the machines she will be scanned out.

 

She won't be able to go through immigration using her US passport as she never entered Thailand on it.

 

Don't worry. She will be fine. They don't follow the passport stamps.

 

The departure cards are usually given to you at check in. If you don't get one, just ask for one. They have plenty.

 

My wife travels regularly (more than I do, I'm sick of it) and she comes and goes maybe 2 or 3 times per year with her girlfriends on trips around the place. Never an issue.

 

My kids have dual nationality as well. All adults. They travel even more than my wife, my daughter in particular works for a multi national and travels to/from Europe 4 to 6 times per year doing the passport swap.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Weddings Parties Anything

[medtechbrah]

Late update:

 

Checked in last month but since we booked one-way ticket, they asked to see VISA to enter Thailand. So, we showed them Thai passport, but it has a different last name. So, we just told them she hasn't changed her last name back, yet. Then we showed them marriage and divorce papers and everything was fine.

[heretostay]

I agree, you're worrying about nothing!

 

Use the name in the US passport for the airline tickets.  Buy round-trip tickets.

 

At Thai immigration (both ways) show Thai passport, and, if requested, show the Thai name-change document (which Thai immigration will understand and be familiar with).

 

At US immigration on entering (no check at exit), use US passport.  They are not concerned that a citizen has another passport from another country.

 

At airline check-in in the US, use the US passport.  They will not question anything with a US citizen with a return ticket.

 

At airline check-in in Thailand, show the Thai passport AND the US passport, only if requested.

 

Really, you have nothing to worry about!

 

Bon voyage.