Opening a coffee shop for my thai friend

[steven100]

If you don't open it in a populous area such as Sukhumvit you will not succeed.

 

At the end of the day there are only 2 outcomes .....   success or failure ...  now if she is as smart as you say then that's a great start.

Just get it going in the upper Sukhumvit area .. say soi 23-39 ... somewhere in that region and go for it .....  don't pick into all those questions too much ..... just do it .

[catman20]

16 hours ago, varun said:

Troll post, but I'll bite.

 

I cringe whenever I heard the the words 'smart but'  in a sentence.

 

1) If she is as smart as you claim, she wouldn't need your help

 

2) I don't know which planet of logic you come from, but there are better ways to waste your money

    than giving money to a 'smart' person to start a business, who has zero experience of running a business!

luv it!!!!!!!!! could not have wrote it any better.

[cyberfarang]

In the area of Chiang Mai where I live, coffee shops seem to come and go every 6 months, some may last a year or two if their really lucky.

 

Thailand is saturated with coffee shops and I would suggest setting the girl up in some other kind of business. For example can she do massage (legit I mean) or it is easy to enrol her in a massage course and then open her own practice. Obviously it depends on how much money you are prepared to pay to set a business up for her. Running her own taxi is another option or running a dress making and dress alteration shop. Could go on forever.

[DoctorG]

If you are dead keen on the coffee idea then she must have some experience going in. Might I suggest a short barista course in BKK coupled with a few months coffee shop employee experience?

 

Anyway; it's your money. If you want to throw it away to make yourself feel good, then that is all good. Best of luck to both of you.

[yellowboat]

Invest in her education.  Get her to learn a trade or skill.  That builds confidence and puts her in contact with like minded, and hopefully, successful people.  As many have already said, you are taking a huge gamble in a saturated sector with no experience. 

 

Selling baked goods to coffee shops might be a better idea if she was able to do so.  Only takes one customer to start a business, but many to sustain it. 

[williamgeorgeallen]

so the general consensus is that it is a bad idea and i would agree but if you have money to throw away on a social experiment then why not? have come across this topic a few times and the best advice i have seen is to get her to go work in another coffee shop for a while. there are so many reasons to do this. learning the ropes is alone good enough reason and seeing if the lifestyle suited her is another. if she does it for a year then reassess the situation. see if she is happy and move on from there.

[jeab1980]

As stated look for a buisness model thats relativley new (although it wont be for long).

Low cost outlay so if it goes belly up nothing much lost. Talking to Mrs about this last night she agreed coffee shop not the best way forward in her words many  many. Funny came up with an idea which we will be trying out over the next few weeks. Outlay for two week trial apx 1000bht. Will report back after trial.

 

[Kwasaki]

7 hours ago, Thomas99 said:

My post is simply aiming at learning the practical aspects of opening a business: 'evidence of revenue, insurance, what questions to ask when looking at a business for sale, etc'. Simple as that,

OK you know not how get a business up and running and neither does your friend you want to help l take it.

If she is Thai it would easy for finding out with you at your local gov province office.

Then get a experienced business consultant.

Goodluck.

 

[oldcarguy]

I vote for a shopping spree

 

Go to a bunch of Malls around  BKK and see if there are any customers in any of them !

Customers are people with bags of stuff they bought , not someone hiding from the sun in an AirCo building :)

 

See what kind of stuff is selling ,  and at which places the staff is sleeping because of lack of customers ,

AS you are doing this talk to your Girl  on how she would do a better job , take notes of things that work  and things that do not ,

 

Become her Economics teacher , but real world economics , ask her how much does she think you need to Mark-Up the price , how many of that item does she need to sell in a day to make 500 baht profit .......and then explain what it costs to have a shop that eats away that 500 baht profit everyday

 

Make it fun for her , that way she will learn and remember ,  plus you will see how her mind works

 

If just talking about it gives her a headache , she is not going to last long ,

if she cannot do numbers in her head ,  she is going to have problems ,

 

You will see another side of her when she has to make decisions ,  and if she just skims over things like it does not matter because its YOUR money she is playing with......

 

and one last thing , you understand that you are never going to see her again ,  maybe not that bad but if it works she will be doing 10-12 hour days and have no energy left for you :)

 

Have fun shopping .....

[Rimbuman]

Running a coffee shop is not that difficult at all, anyone with a bit of motivation can learn to do that.

Motivation would be the motor of the whole idea, reasons and excitement, etc what this motivation is build on eventually determine the end result. If you want to stand out as a business you'll have to be better and more appealing than others.

Theme of the interior design can be a major contributing factor for a successful coffee shop, Chiang mai has quite a few examples like that. Also selling quality bakery goods to go with the coffee is generally a good think to do.

The one thing that I consider as being most important is the purchase of a good quality coffee machine and the know how of the art of making excellent coffee.

Serve your customers with genuine vibrant Thai hospitality and you'll have winner ;-)

 

Wish you good luck and success Thomas

 

[NiwPix]

I dont think you'll need to invest 1 million to get it started and operating. half of that should do it. Then covering the losses for the first few months...which shouldnt be too much. As your customer base grows, losses should shrink and eventually turn into profit.

Your biggest investment will be a coffee machine. You'll spend about 100k on it. I wouldnt go for the 40-50k ones for various reasons, but thats a different topic ;). Also, it is the one thing I would recommend to buy new, unless you know the history of the used coffee machine....was clean filtered water run through it at all times or was it tap water? HAs it been serviced regularly?

Cake fridge, used but fairly new in great condition should cost about 30-40k.

These are the one time high ticket items I can think of. Then you'll get tons of small ticket items that will add up + remodeling / furnishing the new place. So my guess is about 500k investment. By the way, the business license for sole proprietorship doesnt cost much...I think 200 baht if I'm not mistaken. No need to hire a lawyer for that nor an accountant. Just ask the department(s) whats needed and how to fill out.

 

Finding the business: Obviously there are many outlets for people to post their business for sale. Being in Thailand, most business will be thai owned and advertised in Thai, so searching in Thai language would be best. Of course it wouldn't hurt to search in English. Just google "Business for sale Thailand"...that should get you started.

 

If you take over an existing business, you have the right to find out all the numbers...income, expenses, profit, recipes, salaries, customer base, suppliers, contracts / commitments ( Nestle loans a freezer chest if you buy their ice cream, coca cola gives a fridge if you buy a certain minumum of their products etc ). If the place come with a coca cola fridge and nestle freezer, you certainly dont want to count that as inventory. Just keep in mind you most likely will get not so accurate numbers. IE: The owner orders 10kg of coffee beans and pays 5000 baht. He pays the supplier and the bill gets thrown in the trash and not entered as an expense. You would never know that expense occurred. Or he claims 300k sales every month, but the cafe often seems dead or just very few customers....does he really make 10k a day?

Basically, you have the right to know as much about the business as the current owner. With some negotiation the current owner may stay a week or more to help the transition.

 

Good that you're keeping it small and dont need / want to hire staff. The high turnover in the restaurant industry is ( I think ) due to it being a low status employment. Quitting after a few weeks or months maybe saves face? "Oh, they werent paying me enough" or "There was no opportunity to grow, so I quit"....if their statements are true or not is a different story. Also, I myself am not 100% sure that that is the reason...just a hunch :)

 

As for apprenticeship in Ubon...not a good idea for two reasons:

1) Ubon is different from Bangkok. People are different, tastes are a little different, salaries are different. Stick with a place in BKK

2) While I like helping when asked, I do not knowingly hire short term staff anymore. I noticed I get quite a few comments from customers that "oh, you have a high turn over rate" etc. While it shouldnt be any of their business how I run my business or what happens behind the scenes, people always will judge by what they see. So I keep my "turnover" as low as possible.

[lungnorm]

Total waste of money and her time. Its a cruel world out there and anyone with no business experience is doomed for sure. Best suggestion on this post is the one that suggests your friend get a job in a coffee shop. In a very short time she will realise its not such a good idea if she is as smart as you say she is.

[ianf]

The coffee shops that work are the ones that are well-located or have low overheads. Consider this: In Chiang Mai there are 100s of coffee shops. The ones that seem to be effective serve a limited menu of food as well as a wide range of drinks. The ones with customers also have some 'extras':

1. Kids' play area, safe and fun with perhaps sand, bouncy thing, swings and so on.

2. A theme to attract people with a particular interest: cycling for example so cycling groups are offered small discounts, cycling videos etc (many ideas here)

3. Good quality and unusual ice cream (not nestle/walls!). Or other nice cakes that are home made and not the standard fare you find in every coffee shop!

4. Starbucks in Chiang Mai Central Plaza is packed to the gills: but their coffee is hugely expensive and not tasty. Why do peeps go there? Do a survey and find out?

5. A meeting evening for singles (we're not talking sex here)

Anyway: Good luck

Remember that a successful business always has some charisma that the opposition lacks!

[theguyfromanotherforum]

This post is probably not going to be very popular with op, but I'll just put it out there.

 

My wife knows a few self made women who started at the bottom after a Thai guy run away getting them pregnant. One of them is now a millionaire (in dollars) who has her own cake business, but besides having a shop she also does teaching. Personally I think her cakes suck, but still people are paying top baht to attend the classes because she does have a passion for it and the cakes look nice. The other one is a fitness guru and also gives lessons and imports used fitness equipment in bulk from USA and China and sells them for a decent coin. Some more examples that o know of but ain't sharing because I might use them myself :)

 

All these women started dirt poor and didn't have any help whatsoever. The point is if the lacks passion the business will be a failure. Personally I think a coffee shop is a really dumb idea. Like others have said if she was smart she wouldn't be working at the mall. Maybe you just feel sorry for her and want to help. I think a degree would be a better idea than a coffee shop. My wife certainly makes decent money from it.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Destiny1990]

Let her first work in a coffeeshop for 1-2 years most likely by that time u and her changed your minds for having one ur self.

[vivasamui]

Bon Cafe offers free training seminars. Check their website to see if there's a shop in your area. Of course, they'll want to sell your equipment and coffee and supplies.

[stephen mills]

Hello Thomas,

not sure if you are stuck on the Bangkok location or not so I'll let you know what I did. Very similar situation what you have and what I ended up doing, although I ended up marrying my friend.

i put up the money, 850,000, for a bar / restaurant on the beach. It has living accommodations for up to 5 people. We use three rooms for staff and rent out 2 rooms to tourists.

we are on the island of koh  Lanta in lanta old town.

we have a 9 year lease. We pay 16,000 per month rent. Additional costs are about 15,000 per year for licences, city dues, garbage pick up, signage costs etc. , our biggest bill is electric. It ranges from 2000 - 5000 per month depending on how many fridges are used and how offen the aircon is on.

Daily sales vary from 4000-12000 for the peak season. We have family look after things when we go back to Canada. i work 6 months in Canada and then come here for 6. I will be retiring in 3 years and then live here full time. My wife comes with me to Canada each year.

we have been here 3 years. Mango House has been established 10 years.

 My wife's family is from east issan and her family looks after her 2 children. She wants to sell the business and move back on a plot of land her family will supply.

to learn more about our place you can go to www.mangohouses.com

the villas are sold but the 2 buildings that house the pub/restaurant and the kitchen are for sale. The rooms are upstairs. Our room has aircon. Everything is here and set up so no need for additional expense on anything. The restaurant has 6 tables, with 2 more for backup and stools at the bar. The kitchen is very large for Thai standards and is well equipped including fridges,freezer,BBQ, oven , microwave etc.

we currently have mango house for sale for 1 million baht.

if this idea suits you we can talk more. We would be prepared to stay on for awhile until she gets the jist of things and feels comfortable with her new surroundings and how it all works.

we have a fresh food market every Sunday and the Chinese lady across the street gets fresh produce in every wed and fri. Most condiments, beer, ice, fruits, eggs, whole and breast chicken and propane etc is right next door. Anything I can't get here I go to Saladan to the grocery store once a week on my scooter. My point here is that it's not difficult with no hassle to get anything you need to sustain the business.

as for the lease, it can be sold at any time and refreshed to a 9 year period if she finds she's not cut out for it.

we have a western and Thai menu and service mostly tourists so it's very busy for 7 months of the year. Lanta old town is a very friendly village where everyone gets along...and there's no fleecing. 

You can reach me at [email protected] or by phone: 0617027642 if you require additional information 

my name is Stephen mills and my wife's name is Ngam. She will be answering the phone, in case your friend wants to chat with her.

 

[dundas]

I have some practical experience (risks, pitfalls, etc, and likely outcomes) I'd be happy to share with you if you PM me, as I have spent some years helping a Thai person set up a retail business.

 

[JOC]

Have a friend (Thai) who recently opened a tea-shop.....Nothing to do with real tea, but the Thai version....fancy colors and most importantly the plastic cup with a lid and a straw.....Price for all drinks are 25 Baht.     She is in an average location in Hua Hin (rent 10.000) and is selling about 100 cups/day....little more than half is profit (rent not included). Investment cost very low...see link

So OP this might actually work for your friend....she will get some help from the franchise owner.....cheap is good (customer)   low investment (sponsor)

 

Have a look here.....https://chobcha.com/?page_id=21

[Kinnock]

Ah, the classic 'Thailand Challenge" - how to help someone to set up and run a sustainable, profitable business?

 

Unfortunately in this country only the rich get richer, so it's tough to find a niche where a normal person can make a viable living, but there are some business that can provide a livelihood - and here's my personal thoughts on how to make it work ......

 

Coffee shops can be viable - the margin on coffee is decent for an F&B operation, the capital outlay is reasonably small.  Obviously it will be iced coffee, and the local ice suppliers are low cost and they deliver - so your primary ingredient by volume is low.  There's a very well developed food industry in Thailand, so consumables are easily available at low cost too.  So your biggest cost will be rent (assuming it's not a franchise operation - and unless you're going to invest in a string of quick service restaurants, I'd avoid franchises, as most only make the franchise owners rich). 

 

Location is everything - so you need the right balance of paying for a good location, without the sky high rents of a mall location.  Most shop houses are in the wrong place for a viable coffee shop - which is why most of the small shop-house coffee shops fail.  Look for a small unit in a large condo development.  The customers will be local .... very local ..... so you need a high traffic area in the base of a large condo development.  Rents are often reasonable, and as your catchment is highly focused, competition is not a big risk.  Try to negotiate an exclusive agreement - "I'll take your unit for a12 months, if you guarantee in the contract that you will not rent to another coffee shop business in the condo".  Some condo units include living space - which will save on rent for housing.

 

If you can't find a suitable condo unit, look for a house in a popular moo-ban development, get a unit on the corner of the main drag, and open the coffee shop there.  A bank loan for a house for a Thai can be had for low interest, and paying to own a house is better than rent - and if it fails, just hand the house back to the bank.  Just make sure you are not the guarantor!

 

Add extra services - sell food, noodles, daily essentials etc - the local 7-11 may only be 25 meters away, but many people will prefer to go to the local 'in-condo' shop as that means you don't need to venture out in the heat.

 

[madusa]

On 2017/5/25 at 2:26 PM, ChristianBlessing said:

Perhaps it would be worthwhile for her to take employment in an established coffee shop, both to learn the trade and to discover whether this is something she really wishes to do.

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk
 

Yes, yes, yes, this is one very good advice. She may discover she is really bored by the whole business of making coffee all day long.

[madusa]

On 2017/5/25 at 3:05 PM, onthesoi said:

6 - Pitfalls

 

Investing in a business in a saturated market where the manager has zero business experience and there is no contract so your effectively just giving free money to said manager is extreme folly....especially when you yourself have obviously no experience investing in buinesses.

 

There is a reason why shes working in a shopping mall....and its not lack of money to start a business.

Good thinking.

[madusa]

17 hours ago, oldcarguy said:

Buy her a motorised sales cart , or just a sales cart she can move around ,  USED one is best

 

then sell something like shaved ice ,  CoCo , smoothies , anything BUT Coffee

 

Find a place to park the cart , next to a factory is great  and be there  at least lunch time and end of day,

she needs foot traffic to sell enough every day...

 

if whatever she is selling does not work , repaint cart and try something else.

 

I think a place in the Mall has too many rules and too high overhead / fees

 

Good Luck ,

 

 

Yeah, this might be a good idea, because you could change location when business is bad, you see foods or drinks business is tricky sometimes wrong location and you are stuck there, but with motorised cart you move to another area that may do well.

You should ear marked this one and look into it.

[madusa]

If she can learn to cook thai foods or chinese foods really well then you operated from home kitchen but you do need someone to do the marketing by computer. Send out leaflets to office workers. You do need a small vehicle to deliver the foods.

Send out leaflets saying you have home-cooked foods, clean kitchen and taste good at good price (never mention cheap - it's a dirty word it doesn't help in business).

Prepare small amount in little plastic container for tasting. Yes, in the initial stage you need to give free tasting to get the business. You feed the fishes and they come back to you.

In your leaflets mention you do give out tasting if customer book online and it would be deliver to you.

One person to man the computer to take orders and reply to questions. Cook normal foods don't go into vegetarian or organic they will give you headache.

Once office workers like your foods they will order on line . You should rent a strategic location to live and cook in the kitchen where you live to cut cost.

All in all this venture would not cost you a lot of money, except for the small vehicle to deliver foods that may cost a bit. You will have enough capital to do this twice if the first one was a failure that is the beautiful part simply because the capital is small.

If business goes well you need to sell only lunch. People living near your area when they get the leaflet may order for dinner, in the beginning sell dinner and see how it goes, if lunch is going really well, you wouldn't have time to do the dinner round then you drop it.

Good luck to you.

Ps:  if you don't cook well, employ someone who could and pay him or her well .

 

[lkn]

25 minutes ago, madusa said:

Once office workers like your foods they will order on line . You should rent a strategic location to live and cook in the kitchen where you live to cut cost.

The office districts have an abundance of freshly cooked food in the streets, and these districts are absolutely packed with people (customers) around lunch time.

 

Same with traffic hubs in rush hour.

 

I think the concept of ordering food online is a bit alien to most Thai people, if they want to “eat in” they just send one person down the street to buy whatever they want, or they buy from one of the many carts that go around to the shops.

[spikebkk]

20 hours ago, kenk24 said:

Well, nice of you to do this for her... 

 

First and most important - Is this her idea? Or yours for her? If she does not have some passion for doing this business, it likely will not work out...

 

The way to start such a business is for her to work in someone else's coffee business for a while. Our parent's called it apprenticeship and it will be very valuable. Not only will she earn a salary but will eliminate both the learning curve and afford a chance to see if she enjoys being in the business... if she apprentices for 6 months, she will be able to answer all your questions... and really, she should be the one asking such questions. 

 

I would guess they are not too expensive to open - and it could be a deed well done. 

 

i agree with this about opening a business in general

 

[madusa]

51 minutes ago, lkn said:

The office districts have an abundance of freshly cooked food in the streets, and these districts are absolutely packed with people (customers) around lunch time.

 

Same with traffic hubs in rush hour.

 

I think the concept of ordering food online is a bit alien to most Thai people, if they want to “eat in” they just send one person down the street to buy whatever they want, or they buy from one of the many carts that go around to the shops.

Goddam, why don't the Thais behave like everyone else just order your bloody lunch online and it will be delivered to you.  "bum.....k     " i thought i heard someone said "country bumpkins" No, I didn't say that.

[madusa]

7 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

This post is probably not going to be very popular with op, but I'll just put it out there.

 

My wife knows a few self made women who started at the bottom after a Thai guy run away getting them pregnant. One of them is now a millionaire (in dollars) who has her own cake business, but besides having a shop she also does teaching. Personally I think her cakes suck, but still people are paying top baht to attend the classes because she does have a passion for it and the cakes look nice. The other one is a fitness guru and also gives lessons and imports used fitness equipment in bulk from USA and China and sells them for a decent coin. Some more examples that o know of but ain't sharing because I might use them myself :)

 

All these women started dirt poor and didn't have any help whatsoever. The point is if the lacks passion the business will be a failure. Personally I think a coffee shop is a really dumb idea. Like others have said if she was smart she wouldn't be working at the mall. Maybe you just feel sorry for her and want to help. I think a degree would be a better idea than a coffee shop. My wife certainly makes decent money from it.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You said you think her cakes suck but still people pay top baht for the lessons... etc., Yes, it is strange thing in this world. I know some foods shops where the foods are rubbish but they are packed, these people just love the garbage and pay for it.  Sometimes I walked pass and I looked at these people stuffing their faces with those garbage I just couldn't figure out why. The devils made them eat it?

[LisuLover]

Thai's buy their hot drinks from wheeled carts on the street and pay 15 - 30 baht per drink.  They don't then pay any rent or rates.   This may be the way to start.

[rickudon]

Also from Udon. Every girl wants to run a coffee shop, they think that makes them more Hiso. But location, location. had one relative open a coofee shop across the road from a massive clothes market. Spent about 400,00 baht building the place, coffee machine etc. Averaged about 3 customers a day, closed within one month.  Building demolished and materials and equipment sold off. Yes, many people worked nearby, but not ones with money to spend.

 

Of course, my wife wants a coffee shop too...... She's not getting one unless it has very low running costs, because it will not make money. In town has an outside chance, but could loose a fortune, as overheads would be high.