Two men killed in Oregon train stabbings that follow anti-Muslim rant

[Thakkar]

3 hours ago, Traveler19491 said:

And with those eight words, you skillfully illustrate one of the biggest, most significant problems facing the U. S. today...the belief that "Christian values" are supposed to have some sort of preference in American life. My question to you would be...which flavor of "Christian"? Christian Science (no doctors for you)? Mormonism (no booze for you)? Seventh Day Adventism (forget that tee time...better make damn sure you're in that pew every Saturday morning)? Baptist (missionary position only, please...and only for making babies!)? Unitarian Universalist (dude, you really want to go that liberal?)? Snake handling Baptist? Amish?  Mennonite?

 

If you are speaking of the teachings of Jesus as found in the Gospels...those are not "Christian values". Those are human values of decency, respect, tolerance, kindness, generosity, charity, and benevolence. One does not need a religion to hold, reflect, or demonstrate those values. If you read the Humanist Manifesto you will find those values outlined, 

<snip>

  This is where all the idiots who love to insist that America was founded on JEE-ZUS go totally off the rails. First,  nowhere in the Constitution's 7,591 words (including the 27 Amendments) will you find the words God, Jesus, Creator, Bible, Holy Spirit, Scripture, Deity, or any other mention of anything that could be construed as religious. This was done for a reason; the Founders did NOT want anyone ever being able to use the Constitution as justification for inserting religion into government, or vice-versa. Actually, several of the Founders had little to no use for organized religion. Read some of Jefferson's, Franklin's, Madison's, and Monroe's writings on religion. While most were church goers, many disdained the overriding desire of organized religion to dominate public and governmental life. All were staunch supporters of keeping religion OUT of government. You are 100% correct in your assertion that America is a secular nation, however, your position that the U. S. is supposed to have "Christian values" flies directly in the face of both the First Amendment and the Founders' intentions in drafting it.

 

??

[simple1]

Some excellent posts in this topic. Congrats to Thakkar and again Traveller19491

[attrayant]

Meanwhile, a survivor of the attack has to rely on a GoFundMe campaign to pay for his medical expenses because America is the best country in the world.

[stevenl]

2 minutes ago, attrayant said:

Meanwhile, a survivor of the attack has to rely on a GoFundMe campaign to pay for his medical expenses because America is the best country in the world.

This is started by somebody else. No mention of not having insurance, so I'd hold my money for the moment.

[attrayant]

I wouldn't have expected him to have started the drive himself, seeing as how he's laid-up in the hospital.  Anyway it's 94% funded already.

[iReason]

Teen on Portland train: 'They lost their lives because of me and my friend'

 

"As tears streamed down her cheeks, Destinee Mangum, 16, thanked the three strangers who intervened on a Portland light rail after a man hurled anti-Muslim slurs at her and her friend who was wearing a hijab"

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/29/us/portland-train-teenager-stabbing/

 

Two young teenagers.

 

Portland attack: $600,000 raised for 'heroes' killed defending Muslim teen

 

"More than $600,000 (£468,000) has been raised for the families of the three US men attacked while defending a Muslim teenager and her friend on a train."

"Taliesin Myrddin Namkai-Meche and Ricky John Best were killed and Micah David-Cole Fletcher was severely injured in Portland, Oregon on Friday."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40080679

 

This pig Christian slashed their throats.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, Traveler19491 said:

 

 

If you are speaking of the teachings of Jesus as found in the Gospels...those are not "Christian values". Those are human values of decency, respect, tolerance, kindness, generosity, charity, and benevolence. One does not need a religion to hold, reflect, or demonstrate those values.

LOL. America was founded on Judeo Christian values. Believe it or not, OTY.

 

If you are speaking of the teachings of Jesus as found in the Gospels...those are not "Christian values".

LOL. Of course they are values as spoken by the Christ ergo Christian values.

Before Christ, none of them were recognised as a human right, and life was governed by the religious people and royalty. People had no legal "rights" at all. The rulers had total control over the king's subjects. That situation continued up till the American revolution.

Edited May 29, 2017 by thaibeachlovers

[ilostmypassword]

16 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. America was founded on Judeo Christian values. Believe it or not, OTY.

 

If you are speaking of the teachings of Jesus as found in the Gospels...those are not "Christian values".

LOL. Of course they are values as spoken by the Christ ergo Christian values.

Before Christ, none of them were recognised as a human right, and life was governed by the religious people and royalty. People had no legal "rights" at all. The rulers had total control over the king's subjects. That situation continued up till the American revolution.

The people who wrote the Constitution knew better. The values they founded the USA on were those of the Enlightenment- which were distinctly in opposition to what were the Christian values of the time.  It's useful to point out that for most of its history the enforcers of christian values were opposed to democracy and in favor of slavery and serfdom.  Please, what you are asserting issuch nonsense. When people like you talk of Christian values all it means is that the values they approve of are Christian and the ones they don't approve of are not Christian. Stop cherry picking. There's way too much history against you. And to quote St. Paul "Slaves, obey your masters."

And by the way, democracy began with the some of the Greek city states and then the Roman Republic. Very imperfect democracies but still the first steps.  Neither of which were Christian when their democracies were thriving since Christianity didn't even exist yet.

[iReason]

 

Portland attack: Trump urged to speak up over killings

 

"US President Donald Trump is under pressure to address the killing of two men who had tried to stop a man abusing

a Muslim teenager and her friend."

 

"Mr Trump has not yet responded to the deaths of Taliesin Namkai-Meche and Ricky Best in Portland on Friday."

 

"A reporter's tweet to Mr Trump for comment has been liked 14,000 times and another reporter's open letter has been shared 100,000 times on Facebook."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40084410

 

 

Edited May 29, 2017 by iReason

[Scott]

Numerous off-topic posts have been removed.   I have no idea how people got the idea that this has to do with past presidents, slavery and Jim Crow laws as well the Pope. 

 

Please stay on topic.  

[sujoop]

Note finally after 3 days and 21 tweets of the usual mostly self-aggrandizement and  'boy who cried fake'  variety, Trump belatedly got around to tweeting about this tragedy (likely shamed into doing so by public pleas from Dan Rather and many others including a Republican Senator).

 

As President and the highest office holder in the land (who also sets the societal tone), one cannot open a Pandora's box of hateful rhetoric and spew it over months and months (and to some an implied  'permissibility' to act upon) and then defacto absolve oneself of any responsibility which their societal tone sets and what ensues as a result.

Note the Mayor of Portland is calling on organizers of next week's 'Trump Free Speech Rally'  to call it off at this time (acknowledging the past rallies have been dominated by hate-speech etc which would not be appropriate, especially now as the heroes who stood up against hate-speech are buried).

[habanero]

On 5/28/2017 at 2:26 PM, sujoop said:

Asian-Americans Share Terrifying Stories Of Racism After Election
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/carl-higbie-japanese-internment-asian-americans_us_582de0dae4b030997bbde331

Asian Woman Called ‘Chink’ and Eggs Thrown at Her By Trump Supporters While Walking Her Dog
http://nextshark.com/kymby-cao-donald-trump-supporters-harrassment/

Airbnb bans Trump supporter for canceling Asian guest’s reservation
http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2017/04/07/airbnb-bans-trump-supporter-for-canceling-asian-guest-s-reservation.html

 

Plenty more abound. Could be done to your own Asian looking wife or kids.... Point being, the tone set by Trump / the highest office in the land absolutely has emboldened these types of acts. One cannot (pardon the term) white-wash this fact.

I am asian. Lived in the United States for 30+ years. Voted for Trump. Never had a problem. My friends have never had a problem. Lived from the Northeast to Florida and the great state of Texas.  Don't believe any of that crap you're reading. 

[alanrchase]

I am asian. Lived in the United States for 30+ years. Voted for Trump. Never had a problem. My friends have never had a problem. Lived from the Northeast to Florida and the great state of Texas.  Don't believe any of that crap you're reading. 

I am non Muslim, lived in a Muslim country for 25 years and never got attacked. Don't believe all the Muslim terrorist crap you're reading.

[attrayant]

6 minutes ago, habanero said:

Don't believe any of that crap you're reading. 

 

If you could append this to all of your posts, that would save us a lot of time.

[habanero]

32 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

If you could append this to all of your posts, that would save us a lot of time.

Would it have made you feel better if I had said, I was discriminated against on a daily basis?  That is rather shallow on your part, don't you think? 

[stevenl]

13 hours ago, attrayant said:

I wouldn't have expected him to have started the drive himself, seeing as how he's laid-up in the hospital.  Anyway it's 94% funded already.

Yes, seems to be legit.

[Traveler19491]

13 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. America was founded on Judeo Christian values. Believe it or not, OTY.

 

If you are speaking of the teachings of Jesus as found in the Gospels...those are not "Christian values".

LOL. Of course they are values as spoken by the Christ ergo Christian values.

Before Christ, none of them were recognised as a human right, and life was governed by the religious people and royalty. People had no legal "rights" at all. The rulers had total control over the king's subjects. That situation continued up till the American revolution.

LOL...America was NOT founded on Judeo-Christian values. America was founded on the values of the Enlightenment. Jefferson was deeply influenced by the writings of John Locke, not Jesus Christ when he wrote the Declaration of Independence. You insist on continuing to spout off about historical matters about which you know little to nothing. Please consider either doing some in-depth study or discontinuing your incessant drivel. You are just embarrassing yourself. As ilostmypassport astutely noted, democracy originated in Greece, not the U. S. The bible OK's the owning of slaves, the stoning of adulterers, the killing of disobedient children, the killing of gay people, the forcing of a rape victim to marry her attacker, considers women the same as property, calls for the death of a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night (I could go on for a gigabyte)...now those are some wonderful values. The Enlightenment, by contrast, recognized that all human beings are born with certain natural rights, including, as Locke pointed out, life, liberty, and property. Rights that Trump and his minions seem determined to erode as fast as possible, like the right to feel safe in your person and property, a right that Trump has undermined with his vitriol against anyone and everyone he doesn't happen to approve of, a right that has been diminished by others taking his vitriol as a sign of encouragement to attack others. And still, he refuses to come out and vehemently condemn these acts...a further sign of his approval.

 

Edited May 30, 2017 by Traveler19491

[Traveler19491]

3 hours ago, habanero said:

I am asian. Lived in the United States for 30+ years. Voted for Trump. Never had a problem. My friends have never had a problem. Lived from the Northeast to Florida and the great state of Texas.  Don't believe any of that crap you're reading. 

"It never happened to me so obviously it's never happened to anyone else, either." Typical head-in-the-sand denial by a "conservative" who can't deal with the fact that people using that label are committing hate crimes in record numbers since Trump's election. The Southern Poverty Law Center has documented considerably in excess of 1,000 incidents of hate activity since the election, all committed against minorities. Just because you're one of the lucky ones who hasn't been targeted doesn't mean it's not happening.

[Thakkar]

3 hours ago, habanero said:

I am asian. Lived in the United States for 30+ years. Voted for Trump. Never had a problem. My friends have never had a problem. Lived from the Northeast to Florida and the great state of Texas.  Don't believe any of that crap you're reading. 

IF a tree fall in the forest, and I'm not that tree, it didn't happen.

[Scott]

Stop responding to people who are obviously being less-than-truthful and/or trolling.