Plumbers?? Boiler question

[tattoodrob]

Im thinking about replacing my individual shower water heater box system per room to a big boiler in the roof,my question is how far can run the pipes from the boiler?........as 2 showers are one end of the house and 2 are other end so would be a pipe run of about 15m in between..is that ok or too far and so then need 2 smaller boilers,one at each end...what would be any problems with running that length?

i was thinking buy a 100 liter boiler  for supply of the 4 upstair showers or 2 x 50 liter boilers at each end...i prefer the 100 liter if can do it due to costs involved,i will also get sparky to wire in a switch so not keeping water hot all day for nothing so thinking turn on 30 mins before shower times and then off all night..how long does it take to get hot as shop people dont really know the products they selling..one said 15m pipe run ok,other shop said not.

Thanks in advance

 

[Forkinhades]

If you can source copper pipes, and a plumber to install it, then the length will not matter.

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[Thorgal]

No problem to install 15m run of pipe.

 

Depends on the diameter you gonna use and the material of your pipe. The temperature of the water coming out of the boiler is the most important parameter to choose the pipe material.

The diameter is in function of your water pressure.

 

Blue PVC is not advisable for hot water applications.

 

You can install 'expansion loops' at the beginning and the end of the 15m length as shown here under.

 

Furthermore you can insulate the pipes for lowering heat loss.

 

 

 

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[tattoodrob]

i was told they have some piping here that can handle the heat(not blue pvc,forget what he called it but they have it,i cant get copper piping and guy to install that) and i dont want the water too hot anyway as not necessary for hot showers as such here,warm ok...and in my loft space then is always hot!

Pipe size will be same as the standard blue pvc as the boiler has threads for that size.

Expansion loops help in what way? ..to stop pipes flexing/leaking or?

 

[Thorgal]

i was told they have some piping here that can handle the heat(not blue pvc,forget what he called it but they have it,i cant get copper piping and guy to install that) and i dont want the water too hot anyway as not necessary for hot showers as such here,warm ok...and in my loft space then is always hot! Pipe size will be same as the standard blue pvc as the boiler has threads for that size. Expansion loops help in what way? ..to stop pipes flexing/leaking or?   

 

 

 

 When your pipe materials warms up, it will expand. Linear expansion depends on your choice of piping material. Expansion loops absorbs expanding pipes in such way that cracking and leaking will be avoided.

By this, most, if not all, stresses will be absorbed in your proposed pipe length of 15m.

 

All this for the price of a few inches of pipe more and a few elbows. You need to position the 'fixed' pipe clamps (anchor point) and the 'guide' supporting correctly as shown on the basic principle drawing from my previous post.

 

You can do the math for instance for PVC/ABS.

 

http://www.durapipe.co.uk/resources/expansion-calculator/

 

Or calculate for other materials with :

 

http://www.plumbinghelp.ca/plumbing_math_thermal_expansion/

 

 

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[wayned]

3 hours ago, tattoodrob said:

wire in a switch so not keeping water hot all day for nothing so thinking turn on 30 mins before shower times and then off all night

IMHO, I think that you will find that if you set the temp and leave it do it's thing it will cost you less than turning it off and back on and then start the heating process of the 100 liters from scratch all over again.

[Crossy]

The green pipe is suitable for hot water (I forget the material), you need the proper heating tool to install it. Do install expansion loops. Use the same insulation that the aircon chaps use to keep the heat in the pipe.

 

A decent quality (well insulated) tank heater will use very little power keeping your water hot, but, if you have space, a solar heater will keep it hot for free.

 

 

[kamalabob2]

Green PPR pipe of different qualities is sold at better builders merchants stores. Different methods to connect pipes are available in Thailand. Be careful with a pan to collect the water if your heater tank bursts. Be clear about the size of grounded electric cable and size of the dedicated circuit breaker you have installed. I'd be cautious on the brand. German sounding brands are not the same as a German managed brand in Thailand. The water heater box could even have the same "trade dress" and similar logo and same colors as Stiebel Eltron, but be a Chinese knock off. Being clear on who does warranty repairs from what physical location on any brand of water heater will prevent grief and extra inconvenience in the future. 

[tattoodrob]

21 hours ago, wayned said:

IMHO, I think that you will find that if you set the temp and leave it do it's thing it will cost you less than turning it off and back on and then start the heating process of the 100 liters from scratch all over again.

really???? oh i thought just turning on once a day for a few hours would be ok or better as definitely wont be used all hours or even every day...i got 6 seperate shower box heaters and this boiler was going to replace and supply 3 of them upstairs with warm water but those 3 are not the most used as are in the guest rooms and most used is downstairs  but im changing to boiler for save amps as have electrical shortfall as only one phase electric and lots of electrical equipment so the idea was to save problems if 2 rooms are showering at same time and air cons could be on too etc so with the boiler then i dont worry about lights dimming and amps going over 100!!  anymore as water will be hot already so no individual boxes on at same time i hope.

As rooms  supplied by boiler may not be used for days at a time then i thought i would switch it off and then when have guests staying then leave it on for there duration then off when they gone again or even off at night when there asleep for 8 hours..you think is still better to leave on for those 8 hours or so everytime rather than turn off? ..i can do that if is better sure.

How long do you think will take to heat the water,i wont be setting temp too high as i dont think really hot water is necessary in this country.

i would like Solar but dosnt make sense financially and my house is up for sale.

thanks for all the replies.

[tattoodrob]

10 hours ago, kamalabob2 said:

Green PPR pipe of different qualities is sold at better builders merchants stores. Different methods to connect pipes are available in Thailand. Be careful with a pan to collect the water if your heater tank bursts. Be clear about the size of grounded electric cable and size of the dedicated circuit breaker you have installed. I'd be cautious on the brand. German sounding brands are not the same as a German managed brand in Thailand. The water heater box could even have the same "trade dress" and similar logo and same colors as Stiebel Eltron, but be a Chinese knock off. Being clear on who does warranty repairs from what physical location on any brand of water heater will prevent grief and extra inconvenience in the future. 

yes i seen this PPR and will use it.How will a pan help if tank bursts,do they burst often? if it did then would be a disaster as my pump supplies the cold water  to the boiler and so would be gushing out and if im not home when happens and/or dont notice it happened then would be a big flood.i will be buying a Stiebel from Boontavorn and hope is real...not a lot of choice as they all seem to stock those and maybe one other boiler with no known name...so anyway i buy the Stiebel.

Electric wires will be swapped over from the shower heater box that i already have installed as they will be taken out and wires for one of them will be used,has earth and must be ok right as shower is 6000watt or so...... so should be ok to use for the Boiler.

 

[Crossy]

Obviously, if the rooms being supplied have no need for hot water then turn off the supply. But if water is needed twice a day for showers leave it on.

 

Don't forget, these things take a while to heat up, so get one big enough so that you don't run out of hot water.

 

Using the supply from one of the existing heaters will be fine.

 

I don't believe they burst often, or even at all. Provided correctly installed and not over-pressured a good quality one should last many years.

 

 

 

[kamalabob2]

For the OP: There are other brands sold at some chain home improvement stores which copy the trade dress of Stiebel Eltron. I have had good service and experiences with Stiebel Eltron. Like any product you can phone the manufacturer or importer on the warranty card and confirm if the serial number on your item is genuine. You might read and consider the installation as pointed out by this posting on Thai Visa Forum

 

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

18 hours ago, tattoodrob said:

yes i seen this PPR and will use it.How will a pan help if tank bursts,do they burst often? if it did then would be a disaster as my pump supplies the cold water  to the boiler and so would be gushing out and if im not home when happens and/or dont notice it happened then would be a big flood.i will be buying a Stiebel from Boontavorn and hope is real...not a lot of choice as they all seem to stock those and maybe one other boiler with no known name...so anyway i buy the Stiebel.

Electric wires will be swapped over from the shower heater box that i already have installed as they will be taken out and wires for one of them will be used,has earth and must be ok right as shower is 6000watt or so...... so should be ok to use for the Boiler.

 

Be careful of which PPR pipe you buy there are 3 different ones, though only 1 is commonly available. The one that everyone keeps is only rated up to 60 degrees, the high pressure and durable are rated to 95degrees