Marriage Visitor Visa or another Visitor Visa

[paulsingle]

I plan to marry my Thai girlfriend in the UK if granted a Marriage Visitor Visa. I am trying to decide whether to apply for the marriage visa for her next visit to UK or get a standard visitor visa and delay marriage until a subsequent visit.

 

I want her to come to the UK in August this year and stay with me for 6 months. At the end of the six months, in February 2018, we plan to go back to Thailand to attend my son's wedding in March and then spend several months in Khon Kaen and in Chiang Mai. Going forward, we plan to spend British winters in Thailand and British summers in the UK.

 

We met in February 2015. Since then, I have made 4 visits to Thailand and we spent all the time during those visits together. My last visit was for over 7 months. We have made 2 visits to her family home in Khon Kaen. The second visit was for us to have a traditional wedding. I understand the traditional wedding has no legal standing or recognition but in the context of our travels and time together it helps to build a picture of our relationship. Prior to my last long visit to Thailand, my girlfriend was granted a visa to come and visit me and meet my family. We applied for 10 weeks but she ended up staying 12 weeks and 3 days. I'm hoping this doesn't raise any queries. She was in the UK 24th March 2016 to 19th June 2016.

 

If we marry on her planned visit this August 2017, we would subsequently like to apply for a family visa or leave to remain. This would allow us to go back to Thailand for my son's wedding in February as above but would give us the flexibility to come back to UK sooner, say June 2018, to spend summer here before heading back to Thailand for the British winter around October/November 2018. Then we can aim to continue with the seasonal moves.

 

We can delay getting married and simply apply for a standard visitor visa for this August to February visit. I'm guessing we would then have to wait until late 2018 to apply for the marriage visitor visa just to show some has elapsed between visits but I'm not sure about that.

 

I think a marriage visitor visa this year would give us greater flexibility going forward.

 

I would like to know if the chances of success are any different between a marriage visitor visa as opposed to a standard visitor visa.

 

For the curious, I'm 59 and she is 37.

 

 

[rasg]

1 hour ago, paulsingle said:

I plan to marry my Thai girlfriend in the UK if granted a Marriage Visitor Visa. I am trying to decide whether to apply for the marriage visa for her next visit to UK or get a standard visitor visa and delay marriage until a subsequent visit.

 

I want her to come to the UK in August this year and stay with me for 6 months. At the end of the six months, in February 2018, we plan to go back to Thailand to attend my son's wedding in March and then spend several months in Khon Kaen and in Chiang Mai. Going forward, we plan to spend British winters in Thailand and British summers in the UK.

 

We met in February 2015. Since then, I have made 4 visits to Thailand and we spent all the time during those visits together. My last visit was for over 7 months. We have made 2 visits to her family home in Khon Kaen. The second visit was for us to have a traditional wedding. I understand the traditional wedding has no legal standing or recognition but in the context of our travels and time together it helps to build a picture of our relationship. Prior to my last long visit to Thailand, my girlfriend was granted a visa to come and visit me and meet my family. We applied for 10 weeks but she ended up staying 12 weeks and 3 days. I'm hoping this doesn't raise any queries. She was in the UK 24th March 2016 to 19th June 2016.

 

If we marry on her planned visit this August 2017, we would subsequently like to apply for a family visa or leave to remain. This would allow us to go back to Thailand for my son's wedding in February as above but would give us the flexibility to come back to UK sooner, say June 2018, to spend summer here before heading back to Thailand for the British winter around October/November 2018. Then we can aim to continue with the seasonal moves.

 

We can delay getting married and simply apply for a standard visitor visa for this August to February visit. I'm guessing we would then have to wait until late 2018 to apply for the marriage visitor visa just to show some has elapsed between visits but I'm not sure about that.

 

I think a marriage visitor visa this year would give us greater flexibility going forward.

 

I would like to know if the chances of success are any different between a marriage visitor visa as opposed to a standard visitor visa.

 

For the curious, I'm 59 and she is 37.

No time needed between visas. My wife had two visit visas running concurrently at one point as the June visa didn’t; allow her to stay for Christmas.

 

With the 12 weeks and three days, simply explain why in your next application.

 

I will reply to this more fully later. Have to pop out.

[rasg]

I plan to marry my Thai girlfriend in the UK if granted a Marriage Visitor Visa. I am trying to decide whether to apply for the marriage visa for her next visit to UK or get a standard visitor visa and delay marriage until a subsequent visit.

 

I want her to come to the UK in August this year and stay with me for 6 months. At the end of the six months, in February 2018, we plan to go back to Thailand to attend my son's wedding in March and then spend several months in Khon Kaen and in Chiang Mai. Going forward, we plan to spend British winters in Thailand and British summers in the UK.

 

They are pretty similar. Same price too. If you apply for a visit visa to stay for six months you will need a good reason for her to stay for that length of time. A marriage visa is probably easier to get.

 

As you don't plan on living here permanently you could go the marriage visa route to get married here and then apply for a two year, five year or ten year visit visa. With a track record of trips to Thailand etc you shouldn't a huge difficulty getting it. Your wife couldn’t work here on a visit visa though.

We met in February 2015. Since then, I have made 4 visits to Thailand and we spent all the time during those visits together. My last visit was for over 7 months. We have made 2 visits to her family home in Khon Kaen. The second visit was for us to have a traditional wedding. I understand the traditional wedding has no legal standing or recognition but in the context of our travels and time together it helps to build a picture of our relationship. Prior to my last long visit to Thailand, my girlfriend was granted a visa to come and visit me and meet my family. We applied for 10 weeks but she ended up staying 12 weeks and 3 days. I'm hoping this doesn't raise any queries. She was in the UK 24th March 2016 to 19th June 2016.

 

If we marry on her planned visit this August 2017, we would subsequently like to apply for a family visa or leave to remain. This would allow us to go back to Thailand for my son's wedding in February as above but would give us the flexibility to come back to UK sooner, say June 2018, to spend summer here before heading back to Thailand for the British winter around October/November 2018. Then we can aim to continue with the seasonal moves.

 

We can delay getting married and simply apply for a standard visitor visa for this August to February visit. I'm guessing we would then have to wait until late 2018 to apply for the marriage visitor visa just to show some has elapsed between visits but I'm not sure about that.

 

I think a marriage visitor visa this year would give us greater flexibility going forward.

 

I would like to know if the chances of success are any different between a marriage visitor visa as opposed to a standard visitor visa.

 

For the curious, I'm 59 and she is 37.

 

Strange. I met my now wife at almost exactly the same time and our ages are almost exactly the same.

 

We did the Settlement visa bit, got married here and my wife is now on FLR but we have no plans to live in Thailand in the foreseeable future. Wiser people on here will know more but a settlement visa and FLR may not work at all if your wife intends staying out of the UK for six months of the year.

 

[paulsingle]

Rasg, thanks for your help.

 

It had occurred to me as well that justifying a 6 month stay could be tricky. I'm sure you're correct that the marriage visa would be the better option.

 

Something I don't understand is that the UK.GOV website states that you must prove you will leave the UK at the end of the visit but the section for family visas says that you can apply to extend your stay if you are married and in the UK.

 

That seems to say it's ok to come on a 6 month marriage visitor visa with proof that you will leave by the end of six months but once you are married you can change your mind and apply to stay for a further 30 months?

 

My wife-to-be would like to work in the UK once we are married so hopefully we can tailor our periods of absence from the UK to meet any rules that may apply.

[rasg]

2 hours ago, paulsingle said:

Something I don't understand is that the UK.GOV website states that you must prove you will leave the UK at the end of the visit but the section for family visas says that you can apply to extend your stay if you are married and in the UK.

 

That seems to say it's ok to come on a 6 month marriage visitor visa with proof that you will leave by the end of six months but once you are married you can change your mind and apply to stay for a further 30 months?

 

My wife-to-be would like to work in the UK once we are married so hopefully we can tailor our periods of absence from the UK to meet any rules that may apply.

Unless she gets a work visa the only other visa that will allow her to work in the UK is a Settlement visa once you are married and she cannot apply for one in this country, only from Thailand.

 

My wife came here on a settlement (fiancée) visa last March that lasts for six months and you have to get married in that time. In September she applied for FLR that lasts for 30 months (Further Leave to Remain). It's a lot more expensive and she needed an A1 language test for the Fiancée visa (£150) and a TB test in Bangkok (3300 baht). Price of the visa has just gone up to over £1000. FLR has again recently gone up and is over £1000 plus £500 NHS surcharge. FLR is applied for from within the UK.

 

If you get officially married in Thailand at an Ampur the Settlement Visa is about the same price, last for 33 months and the NHS surcharge is £600, plus the language test, plus the TB test. You apply from Thailand and you save the cost of the Fiancé visa.

 

Visit visas don't require the TB test, language test etc and if your intention is only to be here for no more than 180 days at a time, it is simpler.

 

 

 

 

[theoldgit]

It had occurred to me as well that justifying a 6 month stay could be tricky. I'm sure you're correct that the marriage visa would be the better option.

Justifying a six month stay in the UK is always tricky, the applicant needs to satisfy the decision maker that they are a genuine visitor, not attempting to use a Standard Visit Visa to circumnavigate the rules for a Settlement Visa. Your girlfriend would need to satisfy the ECO that they had strong ties to Thailand, that could include employment, which wouldn't be easy if she was going on holiday for six months. The ECO has to be satisfied, when considering a Standard Visit Visa application, that the applicant will "not be living in the UK or making the UK there home through frequent and successive visits".

 

A visitor (standard) and a visitor for marriage or civil partnership, who was granted a visit visa or leave to enter for less than 6 months may be granted an extension of stay as a visitor so that the total period they can remain the UK (including both the original grant and the extension of stay) does not exceed 6 months.

 

As rasg has already pointed out, your girlfriend/wife cannot work in the UK following your marriage, she can only do so once she is in the UK once you've been married in Thailand and been granted a Settlement Visa or if she goes to the UK in possession of a Marriage Visa, marries and then seeks FLR.
 

[brewsterbudgen]

The requirements for a Marriage Visitor visa and a general Visitor visa are not really different.  Affordability and a reason to return are both essential to be proved.  For the Marriage Visitor visa you also need to provide proof that the marriage arrangements are in hand.  I had to show emails between myself and the Registrar, details of the appointment to give notice to marry and the date I had booked for the wedding.  

[7by7]

10 hours ago, paulsingle said:

 

That seems to say it's ok to come on a 6 month marriage visitor visa with proof that you will leave by the end of six months but once you are married you can change your mind and apply to stay for a further 30 months?

 I think you are confusing a marriage visit visa with the fiance category of a settlement visa.

 

Like all visit visas, a marriage visit visa cannot be converted to settlement within the UK; you girlfriend would have to return to Thailand after the marriage and apply for settlement there.

 

A fiance visa is a type of settlement visa. The holder travels to the UK and within 6 months marries their sponsor. After the marriage they apply for further leave to remain. As a type of settlement visa it is considerably more expensive than a marriage visit visa, the financial and language requirements must be met, she will need a TB certificate and pay the NHS surcharge.

 

See Marriage Visitor visa and Family visas: apply from outside the UK

 

 

 

[paulsingle]

7x7, thanks, you're right. I was confusing two different statuses.

 

From the UK.GOV website eligibility for "Family visas: extend your stay in the UK" the following lead me to believe my girlfriend could come on a marriage visitor visa, marry within that 6 months and then while still in the UK apply for this.

 

"Fees

How much it costs will depend on how you apply.

Who you’re applying for	Online or by post	In person (premium service)
You	£993	£1,583
Family members	£993 each	£1,583 each

You must also pay the healthcare charge as part of your application. Check how much you need to pay before you apply.

You might not have to pay any fees if you’re destitute and applying on the basis of your human rights. If you’re eligible, you must apply by post.

"How long you can stay

You can stay for 2 years and 6 months. You’ll be able to apply to extend again towards the end of that.

You can also apply to settle permanently in the UK once you’re eligible."

 

You can apply to extend or switch in any of these routes if you’re eligible, except if you have permission to be in the UK:

• as a visitor
• for less than 6 months - unless you got your visa to get married or become civil partners or you got your visa to wait for the outcome of a family court or divorce"

[paulsingle]

Apologies, I couldn't turn off the bullet points in this editor to continue.

 

What confuses me is that you can apply for the 30 months from within the UK except if you have permission to be in the UK for less than 6 months unless you got your visa to get married.

[rasg]

51 minutes ago, paulsingle said:

What confuses me is that you can apply for the 30 months from within the UK except if you have permission to be in the UK for less than 6 months unless you got your visa to get married.

To do that your GF needs to come here on a Settlement (M) Fiancée visa.

 

As I pointed out to you earlier, you would be much better off getting married in Thailand. It takes five minutes and costs next to nothing and you don't even need an appointment. You do need an affirmation to marry though which now seems to require a bit of extra hoop of jumping. It will save over £1000 on the fiancée visa and one less visa to apply for. A saving on the wedding too as a Thai formal ceremony is peanuts. A UK wedding around £300 at a registry office. You will need to pay for a translation for a Thai wedding certificate to use for other documentation along the way.

 

That way the visa lasts for 33 months plus one period of FLR to take your wife up to five years in the UK and to then apply for ILR and then a passport etc.

 

I have only heard of two couples that have used normal visit visas to live alternative six months here in the UK and Thailand but it's possible.

Edited June 1, 2017 by rasg

[brewsterbudgen]

Do you plan to make your home in the UK or Thailand? If it's the UK, you will need a Settlement visa whether for your fiancee, if you marry in the UK, or your wife, if you marry in Thailand. If you haven't decided to live in the UK, you can just bring your girlfriend over to marry, then return to Thailand. A Marriage Visitor visa is cheaper and doesn't require the A1 English test, TB test or NHS surcharge - and is much cheaper.

[paulsingle]

Thanks again Rasg and brewsterbudgen.

 

Due to commitments in the UK, I don't want to go back to Thailand until February 2018.

 

In the meantime I would like my girlfriend to come and be with me in the UK for 6 months until we both go back to Thailand for my son's wedding.

 

I'm thinking my preferred route would be to get a Marriage Visitor Visa to cover that 6 months from August 2017 to February 2018. Marry in the UK during this time, then both of us go to Thailand for 4 or 5 months. During the 4 or 5 months in Thailand (Feb '18 to June or July '18) apply for 'family of a settled person' visa. (£1,464) which would set us on the 5 year route. Also during this time arrange the A1 English test and TB test. I understand I will have to pay the NHS surcharge (£500 for 30 months). I understand I will have to pay the NHS surcharge again for the second 30 months assuming we are granted that further leave to remain. I think the extension/further leave to remain will cost another £1,464 but I'm not sure about this.

 

During that 5 years we will need to ensure that my wife (as she will be then) does not spend more time out of the UK than is permitted. I don't yet know what the rules are around that. I also understand that she will need to pass the more advanced B1 English test by the end of the 5 years in order to be eligible for ILR.

 

[rasg]

2 minutes ago, paulsingle said:

Thanks again Rasg and brewsterbudgen.

 

Due to commitments in the UK, I don't want to go back to Thailand until February 2018.

 

In the meantime I would like my girlfriend to come and be with me in the UK for 6 months until we both go back to Thailand for my son's wedding.

 

I'm thinking my preferred route would be to get a Marriage Visitor Visa to cover that 6 months from August 2017 to February 2018. Marry in the UK during this time, then both of us go to Thailand for 4 or 5 months. During the 4 or 5 months in Thailand (Feb '18 to June or July '18) apply for 'family of a settled person' visa. (£1,464) which would set us on the 5 year route. Also during this time arrange the A1 English test and TB test. I understand I will have to pay the NHS surcharge (£500 for 30 months). I understand I will have to pay the NHS surcharge again for the second 30 months assuming we are granted that further leave to remain. I think the extension/further leave to remain will cost another £1,464 but I'm not sure about this.

 

During that 5 years we will need to ensure that my wife (as she will be then) does not spend more time out of the UK than is permitted. I don't yet know what the rules are around that. I also understand that she will need to pass the more advanced B1 English test by the end of the 5 years in order to be eligible for ILR.

 

If you apply for a visit visa for six months she is unlikely to get it so the marriage visa is a better option I think. A big advantage further down the track is you will have a UK marriage certificate. So much easier than a Thai one with a translation when applying for Schengen visas and other stuff imho.

 

The plan sounds good I think but your costings will be off as visas etc go up by about 20% a year.

 

If your GF's English is good there is no reason why she can’t take a more difficult test from the off. For example they recently changed the requirement on second FLR from A1 to A2. Or B1 straight off but they may change the goalposts... 

[paulsingle]

1 hour ago, rasg said:

If your GF's English is good there is no reason why she can’t take a more difficult test from the off. For example they recently changed the requirement on second FLR from A1 to A2. Or B1 straight off but they may change the goalposts... 

Unfortunately her English is poor and I think the tests will be a bit of a mission so we'll start with A1 and get working on her English for either A2 or B1 depending on her progress.

[rasg]

Shame. Not a lot of difference between A1 and A2 at all though.

 

Take a look at the youtube Trinity college exams. You can see real tests.

 

Imho opinion the language tests are better in the UK than those in Thailand. In Thailand they put two candidates together and if one of a them is lot better than another or speaks too quickly it can sap the confidence of someone being tested. My wife did hers while she was on a VV at Trinity.

 

[paulsingle]

Thanks for that as well. Good plan - we will work on her English together ensuring we don't contravene visa rules about study and try and get her tested by Trinity in Hammersmith which is the nearest to us here in Basingstoke.

[rasg]

For my wife the big gap in her English was prepositions and her A1 test exposed that. She passed with a B but I have been schooling her in normal speech a lot and it's made a big difference.

[GuiseppeD]

Don't forget the LitUK test.  Extremely tough test and does require dedication and a lot of devotion.

[brewsterbudgen]

Thanks for that as well. Good plan - we will work on her English together ensuring we don't contravene visa rules about study and try and get her tested by Trinity in Hammersmith which is the nearest to us here in Basingstoke.

In the UK she can either take the Trinity GESE A1 test or the IELTS Life Skills A1 test. In Bangkok she can only take the IELTS Life Skills A1 test.

The Trinity test is just her and the examiner, but for Life Skills two candidates are tested together. For Life Skills the assessment includes how well she interacts with the other candidate and the examiner. Her grammar and pronunciation comprise less than 50% of the score. It shouldn't matter if she's paired with a stronger candidate as the examiner will take that into account.

In both tests only Speaking and Listening skills are tested. No reading or writing is required, although candidates can make notes in English or Thai.

[rasg]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

The Trinity test is just her and the examiner, but for Life Skills two candidates are tested together. For Life Skills the assessment includes how well she interacts with the other candidate and the examiner. Her grammar and pronunciation comprise less than 50% of the score. It shouldn't matter if she's paired with a stronger candidate as the examiner will take that into account.

That is why, imho, that Trinity or the UK tests are better. One candidate, one examiner. Nobody else to muddy the waters.

[brewsterbudgen]

That is why, imho, that Trinity or the UK tests are better. One candidate, one examiner. Nobody else to muddy the waters.

I believe that the Trinity test for A1 can only be taken in the UK. The IELTS Life Skills (really a test created by Cambridge but now run by IELTS, who are partly owned by Cambridge, IDP and the British Council) can be taken in the UK, but is the only choice for A1 globally.

[Jip99]

17 hours ago, rasg said:

If you apply for a visit visa for six months she is unlikely to get it so the marriage visa is a better option I think. A big advantage further down the track is you will have a UK marriage certificate. So much easier than a Thai one with a translation when applying for Schengen visas and other stuff imho.

 

The plan sounds good I think but your costings will be off as visas etc go up by about 20% a year.

 

If your GF's English is good there is no reason why she can’t take a more difficult test from the off. For example they recently changed the requirement on second FLR from A1 to A2. Or B1 straight off but they may change the goalposts... 

 

 

Interesting what you say about not getting the 6 month visa (obviously all standard visit visas are 6 months but I take your point).

 

A friend with a 6 month relationship got his GF a visit visa last year on the basis of visiting for 2 months. She stayed for 6 months.  This year they successfully applied for their second visit visa even by stating that she was staying 6 months as they wished to split their time between the UK and Thailand.

[rasg]

5 hours ago, Jip99 said:

Interesting what you say about not getting the 6 month visa (obviously all standard visit visas are 6 months but I take your point).

 

A friend with a 6 month relationship got his GF a visit visa last year on the basis of visiting for 2 months. She stayed for 6 months.  This year they successfully applied for their second visit visa even by stating that she was staying 6 months as they wished to split their time between the UK and Thailand.

I'm not saying that it's not possible but, for somebody to be granted a visit visa when they request six months, it would rarely be for a six month holiday when many applicants have a job to return to etc as their reason to return.

 

It would be granted for somebody with a specific set of circumstances where they live in Thailand for part of the year and travel to the UK regularly and I doubt one would be granted for a first visit visa.

 

Applicants do request shorter periods of time and then stay longer but they need to explain why in a subsequent visa application.

 

[7by7]

23 hours ago, paulsingle said:

During that 5 years we will need to ensure that my wife (as she will be then) does not spend more time out of the UK than is permitted. I don't yet know what the rules are around that

 

There is no specified limit on time out of the UK whilst qualifying for Further Leave to Remain, after 30 months residence, or Indefinite Leave to Remain, 30 months after FLR, 5 years in total.

 

However, in both applications she will need to show that she is a UK resident, and has been for the entire period. Which may be difficult to do if she spent more time out of the UK than in.

 

Also, she can only make both applications from inside the UK. If her current visa or leave to remain were to expire whilst she was out of the UK, she would have to start the whole process all over again from the beginning.

 

ILR is indefinite, not permanent. Once she has ILR if she spends a continuous period of 2 years or more out of the UK her ILR will automatically lapse and she would need the appropriate visa to enter the UK.

 

Furthermore, if on seeking entry to the UK Border force officers had reason to believe that she was not a UK resident but simply using her ILR for regular and/or extended visits then they could cancel her ILR on the spot. Although they would allow her entry as a standard visitor on that occasion, she would need the appropriate visa to enter the UK in future.

 

Once she has ILR she can, if she wishes, apply for British citizenship (both the UK and Thailand allow dual nationality).

 

The rules on residence are much stricter for that. As the spouse of a British citizen

• She must have been legally present in the UK on the exact day three years prior to submitting her citizenship application.
• During the three years prior to submitting her application she must have spent no more than 270 days in total out of the UK, with no more than 90 days in the final year.

Once she is a British citizen she can, of course, come and go from the UK as often and for as long as she wishes without restriction; just like any other British citizen.

Edited June 2, 2017 by 7by7
Addendum