Close encounters of the Buddhist type

[Brunolem]

After all these years in the Land of Smiles, I have yet to meet a Buddhist, that is, someone who studies and tries to follow the Buddha's teachings.

One could expect that a proclaimed Buddhist would, at a bare minimum, know:

- the name of the Buddha (this alone eliminates more than half of the local "Buddhists")

- the four noble truths (four...get about it)

- the noble octuple path (the noble what???)

- meditation (are you kidding me?)

As of today, I have seen countless "Buddhist pretenders", busy trading money and gifts in exchange for small favors, such as getting help to win the lottery, or getting divine protection for a new car, but I have never seen anyone meditating, including among the clergy.

Has anyone been more lucky (forget the forest temples, just consider the regular general population)?

[Kwasaki]

28 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

After all these years in the Land of Smiles

What do you propose we do about it.  

[timkeen08]

I live in a small Isaan village along the Mekong of about 5,000 and it is very common to find sincere practicing Buddhists. All can repeat the chants without reading from books or cheat sheets. I am still in the learning process but I see people here much differently than you. I am thankful for all of the interest they show helping me to understand Buddhism especially after joining some in meditation at Temple. Going to Temple here is not a requirement or something expectated of you but a way of life. Our small village supports and relies on 6 Temples. Hope this sheds some light from another perspective.

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[wildewillie89]

1 hour ago, timkeen08 said:

I live in a small Isaan village along the Mekong of about 5,000 and it is very common to find sincere practicing Buddhists. All can repeat the chants without reading from books or cheat sheets. I am still in the learning process but I see people here much differently than you. I am thankful for all of the interest they show helping me to understand Buddhism especially after joining some in meditation at Temple. Going to Temple here is not a requirement or something expectated of you but a way of life. Our small village supports and relies on 6 Temples. Hope this sheds some light from another perspective.

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Most Thai can repeat chants without the books or cheat sheets. They have it drilled into them at school. That would be a rather large village in Thai terms. Many Tessabans with 6 villages only have 6,000 people 1,000 per village who do all the things you say..but do they treat animals with the respect that Buddhists should? I highly doubt it. Do they put toxins into their bodies (drugs, alcohol, cigarettes etc), most probably. Do they expect large monetary donations?  If the temple looks half impressive or the fact there is 6 in one 'small' village, I would suggest the answer is pointing in a yes direction.  Do the temples have bids on the new buildings that will be built. Pay x amount of money to have your name written on the temple...you betcha life. 

And then we all wonder...why is it only Monks we see in cafes and electronic stores. 

Edited June 1, 2017 by wildewillie89

[Brunolem]

2 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

What do you propose we do about it.  

About what?

[Brunolem]

2 hours ago, timkeen08 said:

I live in a small Isaan village along the Mekong of about 5,000 and it is very common to find sincere practicing Buddhists. All can repeat the chants without reading from books or cheat sheets. I am still in the learning process but I see people here much differently than you. I am thankful for all of the interest they show helping me to understand Buddhism especially after joining some in meditation at Temple. Going to Temple here is not a requirement or something expectated of you but a way of life. Our small village supports and relies on 6 Temples. Hope this sheds some light from another perspective.

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Chants, prayers and temples are not part of the Buddha's teachings, which are about renunciation rather than accumulation (as in having 6 temples for a single village).

The Buddha certainly didn't mean to be considered as a deity, but rather as a teacher.

Since you are in the learning process, I assume that you have heard about the four noble truths, that are the very foundations of "Buddhism".

Then, once you learn the four noble truths, you understand that temples, prayers and chants are not going to help...only following the noble octuple path, as much as possible, might be of some help...

[Brunolem]

42 minutes ago, wildewillie89 said:

Most Thai can repeat chants without the books or cheat sheets. They have it drilled into them at school. That would be a rather large village in Thai terms. Many Tessabans with 6 villages only have 6,000 people 1,000 per village who do all the things you say..but do they treat animals with the respect that Buddhists should? I highly doubt it. Do they put toxins into their bodies (drugs, alcohol, cigarettes etc), most probably. Do they expect large monetary donations?  If the temple looks half impressive or the fact there is 6 in one 'small' village, I would suggest the answer is pointing in a yes direction.  Do the temples have bids on the new buildings that will be built. Pay x amount of money to have your name written on the temple...you betcha life. 
 
And then we all wonder...why is it only Monks we see in cafes and electronic 55stores. 

Temples and monks are not really needed to learn the Buddha's teachings, which are easily available in books, in all languages.

Monks, real ones, are needed when one wants to go further and especially to start meditating...

[KelSolaar]

They should send the pretenders to Craggy Island I say

[Chou Anou]

OP, it goes without saying that you speak fluent Thai, and are discussing all these topics related to Buddhism with Thais IN Thai language, right?  If not, why the <deleted> would you expect they would be able to discuss or express such things in English?  Many Thais know what the four noble truths and the eightfold path are.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Chou Anou

[timkeen08]

Chants, prayers and temples are not part of the Buddha's teachings, which are about renunciation rather than accumulation (as in having 6 temples for a single village).
The Buddha certainly didn't mean to be considered as a deity, but rather as a teacher.
Since you are in the learning process, I assume that you have heard about the four noble truths, that are the very foundations of "Buddhism".
Then, once you learn the four noble truths, you understand that temples, prayers and chants are not going to help...only following the noble octuple path, as much as possible, might be of some help...

I know more than you infer but I do feel that you may be full of wrongful thinking. Maybe you need to practice what you read. Reading about Buddhism does not make you a Buddhist. You also seem to know so much about my village but you are very incorrect. I see where you want to go with this and will not play your game.

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[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, Brunolem said:

About what?

What's your point or are you converted.

 

[Chou Anou]

The (by now obviously trolling) OP also appears to lack any knowledge as to the various distinctions between Theravada and Mahayana Buddhism.  Besides, you know, appointing himself as the moral authority for all Thais.

[timkeen08]

The (by now obviously trolling) OP also appears to lack any knowledge as to the various distinctions between Theravada and Mahayana Buddhism.  Besides, you know, appointing himself as the moral authority for all Thais.

Thanks Chou Anou, now I know what trolling or troll means.

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[Brunolem]

10 hours ago, Chou Anou said:

The (by now obviously trolling) OP also appears to lack any knowledge as to the various distinctions between Theravada and Mahayana Buddhism.  Besides, you know, appointing himself as the moral authority for all Thais.

Wow!!!

I can't answer to all these angry posts above, but they have at least one thing in common: they were most probably not written by Buddhists!

Equanimity, peaceful mind...can't see any of this in all that aggressivity.

A Buddhist generally doesn't get angry and starts calling names because he disagrees with a statement.

Anyway to answer a few questions, I do indeed speak enough Thai to ask around me "phraputatjao chuu aray?" which is a terrible phonetic translation of "what is the name of the Buddha?", a question that is regularly met with a blank stare.

Regarding other issues, I use English with monks that do understand this language...thus we are on an equal footing, since I am not a native English speaker myself...yet we manage to understand each other, and regularly the monks will answer my queries about the noble truths, noble path and meditation with a "that's complicated, let's stick first to the chants".

I know about the distinctions between mahayana (Japanese zen or Tibetan buddhism, for example), and hinayana (Sri Lanka and South East Asia, for example)...even though such distinctions are dismissed by strict followers of the Buddha's teachings, such as those who pratice Vipassana meditation, a very pure form of Buddhism (actually available in one location in Thailand).

Contrary to what one of my friends above say, reading and practicing are very much related...in fact one could say that reading the Buddha's teachings is practicing...which by the way is what real monks spend most of the time doing, when they are not meditating.

Finally and despite the storm in a tea cup above, I keep on finding it strange that barely no one is practicing meditation in a Buddhist country, since meditation is the very core of Buddhism.

After all, the lord Buddha, Siddharta Gautama, spent 5 years meditating under a tree before reaching awakening and starting sharing his experience, and that's all he did after leaving his home and family.

Now, I am always more than happy to hear from others who have different experiences and can contradict my statements with facts, rather than with shouting...

[Kwasaki]

Seeing as you will not answer my questions l'll tell you this name. 

 

Siddharta Gautama was a prince in a kingdom near the present day border of India and Nepal. Upon his enlightenment, his followers began to call him Buddha, which means, "Enlightened One".

[timkeen08]

Wow!!!
I can't answer to all these angry posts above, but they have at least one thing in common: they were most probably not written by Buddhists!
Equanimity, peaceful mind...can't see any of this in all that aggressivity.
A Buddhist generally doesn't get angry and starts calling names because he disagrees with a statement.
Anyway to answer a few questions, I do indeed speak enough Thai to ask around me "phraputatjao chuu aray?" which is a terrible phonetic translation of "what is the name of the Buddha?", a question that is regularly met with a blank stare.
Regarding other issues, I use English with monks that do understand this language...thus we are on an equal footing, since I am not a native English speaker myself...yet we manage to understand each other, and regularly the monks will answer my queries about the noble truths, noble path and meditation with a "that's complicated, let's stick first to the chants".
I know about the distinctions between mahayana (Japanese zen or Tibetan buddhism, for example), and hinayana (Sri Lanka and South East Asia, for example)...even though such distinctions are dismissed by strict followers of the Buddha's teachings, such as those who pratice Vipassana meditation, a very pure form of Buddhism (actually available in one location in Thailand).
Contrary to what one of my friends above say, reading and practicing are very much related...in fact one could say that reading the Buddha's teachings is practicing...which by the way is what real monks spend most of the time doing, when they are not meditating.
Finally and despite the storm in a tea cup above, I keep on finding it strange that barely no one is practicing meditation in a Buddhist country, since meditation is the very core of Buddhism.
After all, the lord Buddha, Siddharta Gautama, spent 5 years meditating under a tree before reaching awakening and starting sharing his experience, and that's all he did after leaving his home and family.
Now, I am always more than happy to hear from others who have different experiences and can contradict my statements with facts, rather than with shouting...

Redundant, no new info here.

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[Chou Anou]

10 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Wow!!!

I can't answer to all these angry posts above, but they have at least one thing in common: they were most probably not written by Buddhists!

Equanimity, peaceful mind...can't see any of this in all that aggressivity.

A Buddhist generally doesn't get angry and starts calling names because he disagrees with a statement.

Anyway to answer a few questions, I do indeed speak enough Thai to ask around me "phraputatjao chuu aray?" which is a terrible phonetic translation of "what is the name of the Buddha?", a question that is regularly met with a blank stare.

Regarding other issues, I use English with monks that do understand this language...thus we are on an equal footing, since I am not a native English speaker myself...yet we manage to understand each other, and regularly the monks will answer my queries about the noble truths, noble path and meditation with a "that's complicated, let's stick first to the chants".

I know about the distinctions between mahayana (Japanese zen or Tibetan buddhism, for example), and hinayana (Sri Lanka and South East Asia, for example)...even though such distinctions are dismissed by strict followers of the Buddha's teachings, such as those who pratice Vipassana meditation, a very pure form of Buddhism (actually available in one location in Thailand).

Contrary to what one of my friends above say, reading and practicing are very much related...in fact one could say that reading the Buddha's teachings is practicing...which by the way is what real monks spend most of the time doing, when they are not meditating.

Finally and despite the storm in a tea cup above, I keep on finding it strange that barely no one is practicing meditation in a Buddhist country, since meditation is the very core of Buddhism.

After all, the lord Buddha, Siddharta Gautama, spent 5 years meditating under a tree before reaching awakening and starting sharing his experience, and that's all he did after leaving his home and family.

Now, I am always more than happy to hear from others who have different experiences and can contradict my statements with facts, rather than with shouting...

Um, the only "non-Buddhist" posts I see here are yours.  You started this very thread by attacking and criticizing the beliefs, knowledge of Buddhism, and practice of Buddhism by Thais, the same people who are nice enough to let you live in their country and <deleted> their women.  Also, if you're so serious about debating the finer points of Buddhist doctrine, why aren't you posting in the Buddhism sub-forum?  I'll tell you why not: because those guys are, for the most part, extremely serious and knowledgeable, and you wouldn't last 1 minute in a conversation or debate with them.

 

Also, I think there are some 100 million Theravada Buddhists in various Southeast Asian countries who would strongly disagree with you that "meditation is the foundation of Buddhism."

 

Anyway, how DARE you come into someone's country and walk around trying to "test" their religious knowledge and then declare them lacking!

[grollies]

10 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Wow!!!

I can't answer to all these angry posts above, but they have at least one thing in common: they were most probably not written by Buddhists!

Equanimity, peaceful mind...can't see any of this in all that aggressivity.

A Buddhist generally doesn't get angry and starts calling names because he disagrees with a statement.

Anyway to answer a few questions, I do indeed speak enough Thai to ask around me "phraputatjao chuu aray?" which is a terrible phonetic translation of "what is the name of the Buddha?", a question that is regularly met with a blank stare.

Regarding other issues, I use English with monks that do understand this language...thus we are on an equal footing, since I am not a native English speaker myself...yet we manage to understand each other, and regularly the monks will answer my queries about the noble truths, noble path and meditation with a "that's complicated, let's stick first to the chants".

I know about the distinctions between mahayana (Japanese zen or Tibetan buddhism, for example), and hinayana (Sri Lanka and South East Asia, for example)...even though such distinctions are dismissed by strict followers of the Buddha's teachings, such as those who pratice Vipassana meditation, a very pure form of Buddhism (actually available in one location in Thailand).

Contrary to what one of my friends above say, reading and practicing are very much related...in fact one could say that reading the Buddha's teachings is practicing...which by the way is what real monks spend most of the time doing, when they are not meditating.

Finally and despite the storm in a tea cup above, I keep on finding it strange that barely no one is practicing meditation in a Buddhist country, since meditation is the very core of Buddhism.

After all, the lord Buddha, Siddharta Gautama, spent 5 years meditating under a tree before reaching awakening and starting sharing his experience, and that's all he did after leaving his home and family.

Now, I am always more than happy to hear from others who have different experiences and can contradict my statements with facts, rather than with shouting...

Is that the Vipassana temple retreat in Prok Far, about 6km from my house?

 

Nah, just looked it up, there's a few here in Thailand, not just one.

Edited June 2, 2017 by grollies

[grollies]

1 hour ago, Chou Anou said:

Um, the only "non-Buddhist" posts I see here are yours.  You started this very thread by attacking and criticizing the beliefs, knowledge of Buddhism, and practice of Buddhism by Thais, the same people who are nice enough to let you live in their country and <deleted> their women.  Also, if you're so serious about debating the finer points of Buddhist doctrine, why aren't you posting in the Buddhism sub-forum?  I'll tell you why not: because those guys are, for the most part, extremely serious and knowledgeable, and you wouldn't last 1 minute in a conversation or debate with them.

 

Also, I think there are some 100 million Theravada Buddhists in various Southeast Asian countries who would strongly disagree with you that "meditation is the foundation of Buddhism."

 

Anyway, how DARE you come into someone's country and walk around trying to "test" their religious knowledge and then declare them lacking!

Relax chap, the OP is a Thai-bashing troll. See his previous topics on Thai administrative politics and the Thai education system.

 

This is simply another of his topics to slag-off the Thai people.

[timkeen08]

Wow!!!
I can't answer to all these angry posts above, but they have at least one thing in common: they were most probably not written by Buddhists!
Equanimity, peaceful mind...can't see any of this in all that aggressivity.
A Buddhist generally doesn't get angry and starts calling names because he disagrees with a statement.
Anyway to answer a few questions, I do indeed speak enough Thai to ask around me "phraputatjao chuu aray?" which is a terrible phonetic translation of "what is the name of the Buddha?", a question that is regularly met with a blank stare.
Regarding other issues, I use English with monks that do understand this language...thus we are on an equal footing, since I am not a native English speaker myself...yet we manage to understand each other, and regularly the monks will answer my queries about the noble truths, noble path and meditation with a "that's complicated, let's stick first to the chants".
I know about the distinctions between mahayana (Japanese zen or Tibetan buddhism, for example), and hinayana (Sri Lanka and South East Asia, for example)...even though such distinctions are dismissed by strict followers of the Buddha's teachings, such as those who pratice Vipassana meditation, a very pure form of Buddhism (actually available in one location in Thailand).
Contrary to what one of my friends above say, reading and practicing are very much related...in fact one could say that reading the Buddha's teachings is practicing...which by the way is what real monks spend most of the time doing, when they are not meditating.
Finally and despite the storm in a tea cup above, I keep on finding it strange that barely no one is practicing meditation in a Buddhist country, since meditation is the very core of Buddhism.
After all, the lord Buddha, Siddharta Gautama, spent 5 years meditating under a tree before reaching awakening and starting sharing his experience, and that's all he did after leaving his home and family.
Now, I am always more than happy to hear from others who have different experiences and can contradict my statements with facts, rather than with shouting...

I think if you asked a Christian if he knows the name of Jesus that you would get the same blank stare as it is an insult the same as it is an insult to ask a Buddhist if he knows the name of the Buddha.

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[grollies]

The OP would do well to study and practice the 4 main tenets of Buddhism.

[Chou Anou]

53 minutes ago, grollies said:

Relax chap, the OP is a Thai-bashing troll. See his previous topics on Thai administrative politics and the Thai education system.

 

This is simply another of his topics to slag-off the Thai people.

Thanks, yes, I've figured that out...now have him on ignore. 

[timkeen08]

Thanks, yes, I've figured that out...now have him on ignore. [emoji2]

Ignore? Is that a learned tendency or is there a real button? A button Please.

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[Chou Anou]

18 minutes ago, timkeen08 said:

Ignore? Is that a learned tendency or is there a real button? A button Please.

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Haha, both!  But the button makes it easier.  Just hover over anyone's username, and you'll see the option pop up.  When you click on it, they give you the option what to ignore (posts, PMs, etc.).  Don't forget to save your changes.

[wildewillie89]

To be fair to the OP, everything he has said on education and politics is true (other threads). Anyone who thinks what he was saying is not happening obviously hasn't bothered to understand how Thai systems work (which is fair enough also, but don't claim he is some whack as at least he has a basic understanding - better than most 'farang' here). Whether he is trolling or not (he would have to not understand the meaning of troll), i dont care as it also keeps me entertained. Would rather read a half interesting troll post than having to read threads about how someone married a bar girl and why is she asking for money. Or what is the best fridge to buy, or my personal favourite that my comments got deleted, not having to wait in a queue. Like come on lol.  

However, what he hasn't understood is how hard it really is to change systems (as good intention isn't always enough), and unless you have big friends, at local and national level, they will not change. Just need to accept Thailand how it is as a whole, but change at your family, community level - or you'll die of stress lol. Regarding the Buddhist thing, it is the same in all countries, say how much you believe something but not live at all how that belief system tells you to live or know the finer details of the system. One of the main reasons I am not religious, and why the developed countries in the world are secular. 'Farang' will also generally work that one out after getting over the excitement of living here and seeing the beautiful temples.