Non Immigrant O

[girlx]

I have been living on multiple entry tourist visas for years now, but as they are no longer available except from your home country I am looking at alternatives. What about the Non-Imm-O? I am not supporting a Thai spouse, but I heard it is possible to get this visa anyway. I am 30 years old, working from my home office in Thailand for companies in the US. Is there a minimum $ requirement? What do I need to do and where can I go near Thailand to get it? Thanks for any info...

[astral]

I am not sure you qualify for a Non Imm O visa.

Non Imm B would be a better option.

Call Sunbelt and discuss with them after the New Year.

[girlx]

B would be for a person working for a business in Thailand- mine is outside of Thailand.

[Khutan]

I think the best would be for a Non-B, and Sunbelt would be the best people to contact about that.

[loong]

Strictly speaking, you should have a work permit to do any type of work in Thailand.

I assume that you are American, please note that everyone who has a question re visas should always include their nationality.

I think that multi entry "O" is only available in your home country

Very easy for Brits, but I don't know about Americans

[thai_narak]

girlx,

you are basically working illegally (no work permit) with a wrong visa and can be arrested/deported if caught. you are also not qualified for a non-o visa since you are not over 50 and nor married to thai. what you have to do now is to employ yourself with your own company and try to get a non-b visa and a work permit to be legal. this is a bit complicated process so i would advise that you consult a lawyer.

[loong]

girlx,

you are basically working illegally (no work permit) with a wrong visa and can be arrested/deported if caught. you are also not qualified for a non-o visa since you are not over 50 and nor married to thai. what you have to do now is to employ yourself with your own company and try to get a non-b visa and a work permit to be legal. this is a bit complicated process so i would advise that you consult a lawyer.

You do NOT need to be married or over 50 to get a non imm "O", you do if you want the year extension

[girlx]

I am not working illegally as I do not work for a Thai company, or even a company with a presence in Thailand. This has been discussed several times on this board, with the conclusion that my situation is a legal gray area. I can file for a work permit exemption from the labor department, and stay on a tourist visa. However I was hoping I might qualify for something longer.

[LivinLOS]

You can call it a grey area.. The law states "ANY WORK etc".. Fine you can hide but its not legit... Your attempting to be resident here but not pay taxes here..

[LivinLOS]

girlx,

you are basically working illegally (no work permit) with a wrong visa and can be arrested/deported if caught. you are also not qualified for a non-o visa since you are not over 50 and nor married to thai. what you have to do now is to employ yourself with your own company and try to get a non-b visa and a work permit to be legal. this is a bit complicated process so i would advise that you consult a lawyer.

You do NOT need to be married or over 50 to get a non imm "O", you do if you want the year extension

What class of non imm O should people under 50 and not married to a Thai (and without dependants) apply for then ??

I of course dont mean consuls that turn a blind eye, I mean under what legal category ??

[loong]

What class of non imm O should people under 50 and not married to a Thai (and without dependants) apply for then ??

I of course dont mean consuls that turn a blind eye, I mean under what legal category ??

The visa is Non-immigrant and the category is "O" this is a visa for reasons other than tourism and the reason can be "visiting friends".

If married or over 50 you can apply for a 1 year extension. This means that you would not need to leave the country every 90 days and would not need to return to your home country to obtain another visa every year as you can extend the extension every year as long as you meet the criteria.

I have been coming to Thailand for a few years with a multi entry non imm "O", obtained in UK before I turned 50. Each visa is valid for 1 year and allows stays of up to 90 days at a time, then have to do the border run to get another 90 days

It is not a case of Consul turning a blind eye, is totally legit and I'm surprised that you are not aware of this!

Edited December 28, 2006 by loong

[LivinLOS]

What class of non imm O should people under 50 and not married to a Thai (and without dependants) apply for then ??

I of course dont mean consuls that turn a blind eye, I mean under what legal category ??

The visa is Non-immigrant and the category is "O" this is a visa for reasons other than tourism and the reason can be "visiting friends".

If married or over 50 you can apply for a 1 year extension.

I have been coming to Thailand for a few years with a multi entry non imm "O", obtained in UK before I turned 50. Each visa is valid for 1 year and allows stays of up to 90 days at a time, then have to do the border run to get another 90 days

It is not a case of Consul turning a blind eye, is totally legit and I'm surprised that you are not aware of this!

And I asked for valid reasons not simply consuls that turn a blind eye to loose applications..

Try that at an embassy.. Try that at a local SEA consul..

There is no Non Imm O visa class for 'visiting friends and family' only many consuls just hand out the visa's in circumstances that they are not supposed to. If your not blessed with a consul that bends or breaks the rules what should they do, if they are not back in their home country, what should they do ??

[thai_narak]

loong,

Are you saying that anyone is applicable to apply for non-o visa? I thought only for marriage and retirees...

This will help so many people so why don't you tell us how to do this?

Edited December 28, 2006 by thai_narak

[loong]

Here is a link to tha Thai Consul in Hull UK

http://www.thaiconsul-uk.com/

Visa regs

http://www.thaiconsul-uk.com/pdfs/Aa%20%20...Regulations.pdf

For category "O" there is no requirement that you be over 50 or married to a Thai.

Non-Immigrant visa

The following main types are available:-

A) Category “O” for persons wishing to visit relatives / friends who live in Thailand

Category “B” for persons doing business in Thailand

C) Category “ED” for persons undertaking education courses or volunteer work in Thailand.

Your quote LivininLOS

"There is no Non Imm O visa class for 'visiting friends and family' only many consuls just hand out the visa's in circumstances that they are not supposed to. If your not blessed with a consul that bends or breaks the rules what should they do, if they are not back in their home country, what should they do ?? "

As you will see above Category "O" is for visiting Friends/Relatives in Thailand, and the Consul is fully entitled to issue a visa for this purpose

Retirement

http://www.thaiconsul-uk.com/pdfs/Af%20%20...Application.pdf

The visa for over 50's retirement is non immigrant category "O-A".

Qualification of an applicant

1. British passport holder aged 50 years or above.

2. Not prohibited from entering the Kingdom under the Immigration Act BE 2522 (1979).

3. No criminal record in the UK, in the country of residency (if different) or in Thailand.

4. No medical record of contagious disease.

5. Able to support themselves financially.

Please note it is not possible to work in Thailand with the “O-A” visa.

As stated before, you will normally only get a non imm "O" in your home country, however there are some exceptions. I actually saw a non imm "O" visa issued to a Brit in Penang. The man had been going to Penang regularly for tourist visas and was offered a non imm out of the blue. He didn't even ask for it.! We can hope that this will happen more often in future as Penang will be flooded by applicants for tourist visas due to the 3 Ptsoe rule

I have obtained this visa many times when under 50 and not married to a Thai - why don't you believe me??

Edited December 28, 2006 by loong

[loong]

Thai Narak

I can only speak as a UK national and getting a non imm "O" from Hull is absolutely no prob for a Brit. Obviously, I have to be in the UK, but can send passport by post and is always back 2 days later.

What nationality are you?

[thai_narak]

Thai Narak

I can only speak as a UK national and getting a non imm "O" from Hull is absolutely no prob for a Brit. Obviously, I have to be in the UK, but can send passport by post and is always back 2 days later.

What nationality are you?

interesting...

i'm a US citizen so I'm not applicable to apply in Hull. I'm currently on non-O as I'm married to thai.

[Jared]

Im a Brit and got my non-O by post within 2 days from Hull, I stated the reason for visiting was visiting friends. I would of thought I would be just as easy for a US citizen to get but I guess its not.

[Tod Daniels]

The issuing of non-o visas has been discussed on this forum ad infinitum with both sides of the argument presented. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. It is all too easy to acquire a Non-O visa from the UK, AU & the US. Whether they, as one respondent posted; "turn a blind eye" to the qualifications or not is irrelevant. They ARE thai consulates, they DO issue VALID visas, and the visas they issue ARE accepted w/out question upon entry into the glorious "Land 'O Thais"..

I am sure everyone who's lived or stayed here any length of time will understand the huge difference between the letter, the spirit and the interpretation of the laws here in the "Land 'O Thais".

IF you are able to make the trip to the US, or the UK it is not a problem to get a Non-O multi-entry visa. The only real impediment which has been recently implemented is you must post mark your application in the country you are applying in (ie; US postmark for a US consulate, UK postmark for the Hull consulate).

Too many people fret & worry about the letter of the law & its interpretation, when it all reality, if you are not applying for a visa in S/E Asia, meaning applying at almost ANY consulate in a first world country, it matters not one little bit.

It is mostly here in S/E Asia close to the glorious "Land 'O Thais" where the consulates & embassies are not 'user friendly'. Even inside the kingdom they seem to hold people to a standard which varies by consulate, by employees of that consulate as well as on a given day & the mood of the employee you get the pleasure to deal with.

As an aside; I would only explore the "consult a lawyer" route, AFTER I had exhausted every other means, NOT before. Sunbelt is good for advice & has helped a LOT of people. Call them after the holiday season when they are back in the swing of things. I have found them forthcoming with their knowledge with even their thai staff having a fairly good grasp of engrish.

As you can see from the last few posts, it is NOT as hard to get a Non-O Multi Entry Visa as some would have you believe.

Good luck

ท้อด แดเนียลส์: กรุงเทพมหานคร

Tod Daniels; Krung Thep Mahanakhon

[LivinLOS]

But Hull is known to be one of those consuls that bends the rules (they give B visa's when they shouldnt too).. Go ask the Thai embassy in London for one.. If your not lucky enough to live with a consul who does not stick to embassy rules then what do you do.

There are a few consuls worldwide that are known to be loose with papers.. Lets hope for those lucky enough to be from one of those countries that it continues but the fact remains there is no class of non imm O for visiting friends and family really.. Go ask for one in an embassy or consul round here ?? Go ask in the Embassy in London..

[girlx]

You can call it a grey area.. The law states "ANY WORK etc".. Fine you can hide but its not legit... Your attempting to be resident here but not pay taxes here..

why would i pay taxes? i am a tourist for all intents and purposes, staying for a long time. i am not making my income from thailand, and i pay taxes on my income in the US, where it is earned. i am not taking jobs away from thai people, thai people aren't even competitors for my job. i am ONLY bringing money into thailand. if they want to kick me out for that, up to them, but chances are they will not. the law defining work was created in 1978, before telecommuting existed. it does not cover this circumstance. as you can see in the following links, thai authorities seem to agree with me.

Thai Immigration

Thai Visa

As for the non-imm O, there is a lot of conflicting info on here... has anyone gotten one in Asia for the purpose of visiting friends and relatives and if so how did they go about doing it?

[LivinLOS]

You can call it a grey area.. The law states "ANY WORK etc".. Fine you can hide but its not legit... Your attempting to be resident here but not pay taxes here..

why would i pay taxes? i am a tourist for all intents and purposes, staying for a long time. i am not making my income from thailand, and i pay taxes on my income in the US, where it is earned. i am not taking jobs away from thai people, thai people aren't even competitors for my job. i am ONLY bringing money into thailand. if they want to kick me out for that, up to them, but chances are they will not. the law defining work was created in 1978, before telecommuting existed. it does not cover this circumstance. as you can see in the following links, thai authorities seem to agree with me.

Thai Immigration

Thai Visa

As for the non-imm O, there is a lot of conflicting info on here... has anyone gotten one in Asia for the purpose of visiting friends and relatives and if so how did they go about doing it?

I have never heard of any consuls in Asia giving a non O on that basis or any embassy either.. Some consuls are known to be loose..

For your tax issues for US citizens it works differently.. for Euro's you stop paying home country taxes when not resident in that country (183 days usually).. Then also DTA agreements come into it..

As to working issue.. Your workign and your in Thailand.. The thaiimmigration.com website you list as a clear answer was known to be totally innaccurate for much of what they said and non run by Thai immigration.. they made more mistakes than they got answers correct and the board was shut down for new posts.. Not exactly the most reliable source.. If you look even within the thread you quote they state

We honestly don’t know since everything related to work and work permits goes under Ministry of Labour and Social Welfare...

...Believe us, it’s not because we don’t want to answer, but we are honestly not sure about the right answer...

Remember thats an immigration website not Ministry of Labour website.. Ask the ministry of labour if you can work here and live here and not need a work permit and pay taxes..

Notice the person in the second thread still hasn't got their WP exemption..

Would love to see telecommuting made tax free and WP free.. Would be a boon for many farangs.. Hence I doubt it.

[~G~]

i am a tourist for all intents and purposes, staying for a long time.

Tourists cannot stay here for a long time BY DEFINITION. That is exactly why you kept coming in and out of Thailand. They changed the law to make sure you won't be able to stay here long term on a tourist visa.

i am not making my income from thailand, and i pay taxes on my income in the US, where it is earned. i am not taking jobs away from thai people, thai people aren't even competitors for my job. i am ONLY bringing money into thailand.

This is very nice, and I agree with you 100%. Unfortunetaly, Thai autorities will not.

as you can see in the following links, thai authorities seem to agree with me.

I can't open the immigration link becuase of the terrible connection in the last days. Ten minutes and it's still stuck. The other link only shows that certain posters in ThaiVisa thought it's not neccesary. That hardly says anything about Thai authorities. If you are so sure, call Employment Department in the Labour Ministry and ask them if you need a Work Permit or not.

Edited December 28, 2006 by ~G~

[sbk]

It is not really our place to question Consulates decisions nor our place to presume that we know more than the Embassy that employs these consulates. The fact is that they are legally issuing valid visas. There is no argument that can be made against that, regardless of what some posters think of how the consulates choose to interpret rules. It is quite clear to all of us who have dealt with Immigration that even here in Thailand different offices will interpret rules differently. Why should consulates be any different? Their visas are no less valid than those issued by the embassy so lets just not even bother to continue with this pointless argument.

Regardless, none of this really answers girlx's question which was, quite simply, is there a consulate or embassy that will issue a non-imm o to a person (not married to a Thai) in Asia .

[LivinLOS]

OK then let me say it this way..

If there is a valid visa class for a non O for visiting friends and family why can I not get one from local embassys, or even my home embassy.. Surely under appeal I could get one if there is actually a valid reason to be issued one ??

That's why I say there is not a valid visa class !!! If there was they would have to give me one..

Just because some places are slack, doesn't make a real visa class does it ?? You may as well say that 'hey this embassy made a mistake and gave me a 3 year visa when they shouldn't have.,.. Now there's a 3 year non imm O.. There isn't !! only mistakes are made and some consuls push the envelope.

I know theres slack consuls, I use them myself.. But that doesn't mean its a real valid reason for application.

[mouse]

girlx - Basically doing the same as you. Working thorugh the net, actually work is done by me, produced elsewhere and delivered in the USA, Europe or other worldwide location. Nothing is produced in Thailand and the only labour is mine, therefore, I recently set up my Amity company.

I strongly advise you to do the same soon. It only costs about 65,000 Baht total with Visa and Work Permit. It will give you a work permit and justify your reason to get the annual Visas. In addition to the fact that you are better off paying the taxes here and then deducting it from your U.S. Tax returns, which by the way allows for a $84,000 a year exemption due to your residing abroad. In other words, if you need not pay anything else in the U.S. and will pay a much lower amount here once you break the U.S. threshhold.

It is only a matter of time before the Amity treaty option is gone and that the Thai authorities wake up and realize that there a tax source to be collected from, such as people in your and my position. It is for this reason that I did it and recommend it to everyone else.

You state why should you pay taxes here ........ You live here use all the facilities, breathe their air and drink their water and enjoy it or you would not be here, yet you do not wish to contribute a insignificant amount ...... so pay for it or come here annually and pay for it at an accelerated rate as a tourist. I gladly contribute here in the hope that things will actually get better where my family and I reside and hope to spend our lives.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

wow! I see your keyboard smoking all the way from up north! don't get angry!

Edited December 28, 2006 by mouse

[thai_narak]

girlx,

you suppose to be traveling, sightseeing, etc. since you are a tourist. it seems that you have been to every places in thailand already since you have been there for so long now. i'm sorry to say, but you are still illegal by doing some kind of work whilst on tourist visa. get legal before getting caught, it's a friendly advice...

Edited December 28, 2006 by thai_narak

[girlx]

in the 2nd link i posted up there- Sunbelt (whom I was advised to contact for advice) contacted the Labor Dept. and was told someone in this situation is exempt from needing a work permit. enough said. as for paying taxes, where i live my water supply is a waterfall, and there is no road. i pay my bills regularly, bring in cash, have no problems extending my visas- i am not worried.

[lopburi3]

As I recall the Sunbelt story it was more to the tune of "we always knock first" so "if the computer is not on the work site we would not know about it".

[girlx]

well then i will contact Sunbelt and ask them to complete the investigation so all of us will know once and for all.

[LivinLOS]

Contact the labour dept.. Work is work..

Sure its ok to 'get away with it' but being legal ?? IMO nope.. Its fine to keep trying to stay under the radar but dont kid yourself its legit.

Also surely if your in Thailand more than 183 days a year you would be 'defacto resident for tax purposes' I am told I would be by my tax advisor.