Ex-FBI head Comey accuses Trump of pressure on Russia probe

[Traveler19491]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

From the OP- he has it right.

Bruce Green, a professor of law at Fordham University School of Law, said, however, it would be difficult to show that Trump intended to obstruct justice.

 

Impeaching the president is a serious matter, and needs more than the word of a fired employee to convict, especially as it is a case of "he said" without proof.

Corroboration isn't necessary to impeach- on what planet?

The jury in this case would be the senate. Good luck getting them to uphold impeachment. That would be if it even got through the house.

 

I know the Trump haters will use this as a stick to beat Trump with, but it is nowhere near high crimes and misdemeanours, so not going anywhere, IMO.

 

Unless Comey comes up with something more significant this afternoon, this is over.

You are correct that in an impeachment trial Comey's word alone would be nowhere near enough for a conviction. However, there would be substantially more evidence needed before the House would approve impeachment articles, ergo, Comey's testimony would likely have plenty of confirmation.

 

As to your assertion that, "Unless Comey comes up with something more significant this afternoon, this is over", I would have to strenuously disagree. This investigation isn't just about Comey's testimony. There are myriad questions that are being examined. This is just one of scores. Keep in mind, the committee has heard testimony in closed-door sessions that we will likely never be privy to. It is unlikely that the committee would press to have Comey testify were there not more to it than just this one allegation. Following his public testimony, the committee will question him in private. If nothing turns up in either session, then this matter will likely be dismissed. But to think that the overall investigation will come to a close is nothing more than wishful thinking.

[Credo]

2 hours ago, 55Jay said:

When the FBI Director feels the need to start preparing memos for the record to cover his ass after private interactions with a new President of the United States, things ain't good.

The meetings and discussion related to official business so any prudent person would prepare notes.   

 

I think Trump was surprised there were notes, as he seemed to think it was recorded.   

[55Jay]

1 minute ago, Credo said:

The meetings and discussion related to official business so any prudent person would prepare notes.   

 

I think Trump was surprised there were notes, as he seemed to think it was recorded.   

I was referring to the distinction made by Comey between private meetings with Obama vs. Trump.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Traveler19491 said:

You are correct that in an impeachment trial Comey's word alone would be nowhere near enough for a conviction. However, there would be substantially more evidence needed before the House would approve impeachment articles, ergo, Comey's testimony would likely have plenty of confirmation.

 

As to your assertion that, "Unless Comey comes up with something more significant this afternoon, this is over", I would have to strenuously disagree. This investigation isn't just about Comey's testimony. There are myriad questions that are being examined. This is just one of scores. Keep in mind, the committee has heard testimony in closed-door sessions that we will likely never be privy to. It is unlikely that the committee would press to have Comey testify were there not more to it than just this one allegation. Following his public testimony, the committee will question him in private. If nothing turns up in either session, then this matter will likely be dismissed. But to think that the overall investigation will come to a close is nothing more than wishful thinking.

I was only referring to the OP, not the investigation.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, Credo said:

The meetings and discussion related to official business so any prudent person would prepare notes.   

 

I think Trump was surprised there were notes, as he seemed to think it was recorded.   

There should be notes, and preferably recordings. I was surprised that anyone would think there wasn't.

[55Jay]

T-minus 92 minutes until the hearing kicks off 1000 EST.  Would love to be a fly on the wall in the closed door session afterward though. 

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There should be notes, and preferably recordings. I was surprised that anyone would think there wasn't.

Well, Trump certainly threatened that there might be recordings. Anybody want to bet that he wasn't bluffing?

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, riclag said:

It's not obstruction "pressure on subordinates is not obstruction" according to a former federal prosecutor Andrew McCarthy.He also went on to say in the interview "the key element to prove  obstruction of justice is "corruption" and their isn't any".I posted a link to the conversation it starts  at minute  36:50.

 

It's not even "pressure". Asking someone to do something is just that. Pressure would be adding something like "I'll make you life hell if you don't" or such.

Obstruction would be "ordering" him to stop investigating Flynn.

[Credo]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's not even "pressure". Asking someone to do something is just that. Pressure would be adding something like "I'll make you life hell if you don't" or such.

Obstruction would be "ordering" him to stop investigating Flynn.

Oh, let me see, firing the guy might be construed as obstruction.   

[ilostmypassword]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

From the OP- he has it right.

Bruce Green, a professor of law at Fordham University School of Law, said, however, it would be difficult to show that Trump intended to obstruct justice.

 

Impeaching the president is a serious matter, and needs more than the word of a fired employee to convict, especially as it is a case of "he said" without proof.

Corroboration isn't necessary to impeach- on what planet?

The jury in this case would be the senate. Good luck getting them to uphold impeachment. That would be if it even got through the house.

 

I know the Trump haters will use this as a stick to beat Trump with, but it is nowhere near high crimes and misdemeanours, so not going anywhere, IMO.

 

Unless Comey comes up with something more significant this afternoon, this is over.

'According to two experts I spoke with Tuesday night, one way to show corrupt intent is to look at a pattern of behavior. A bunch of individual actions that, on their own, don't conclusively prove anything about a person's state of mind can, taken together, add up to something meaningful.'

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/05/16/how_a_prosecutor_might_use_trump_s_pattern_of_behavior_to_show_he_obstructed.html

 

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, Credo said:

Oh, let me see, firing the guy might be construed as obstruction.   

Firing Comey didn't stop the investigation. Leaving him there and ordering him to stop it would be obstruction.

The current head of the FBI has confirmed that the investigation continued regardless. Anyone should know that.

 

Regardless of all the toing and froing on here, to actually start impeachment would require a majority of the house and it will take a lot more than what there is to make it happen. Would need a proven smoking gun. So far, none.

[ilostmypassword]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Firing Comey didn't stop the investigation. Leaving him there and ordering him to stop it would be obstruction.

The current head of the FBI has confirmed that the investigation continued regardless. Anyone should know that.

 

Regardless of all the toing and froing on here, to actually start impeachment would require a majority of the house and it will take a lot more than what there is to make it happen. Would need a proven smoking gun. So far, none.

One of the keys to establishing whether there was obstruction of justice is state of mind. According to Comey, Trump asked everyone else to leave the room before asking Comey to lay off Flynn. That could be used in conjunction with other incidents to establish that Trump knew what he was asking was wrong.

[JHolmesJr]

Looking forward to the Comey…aka Nothingburger Sessions.

[55Jay]

The talking heads on MSNBC I was listening to earlier were suggesting Trump's attempts were inappropriate but may not rise to the level of obstruction. 

 

In his advance statement, Comey sounded more annoyed with Trump's attempt at saying "stop the investigation" without saying "stop the investigation".  He wouldn't even acquiesce to Trump's repeated request to tell the media he (Trump) wasn't under investigation personally.  Trump had to carry that water himself.

 

Comey's no boy scout in that town and I suspect he was nowhere near intimidated to the point of ordering his troops to back off the Flynn/Russia probe.  Give Comey a few beers, he might belly laugh at the idea of Trump "pressuring" him.  "Who? Trump?  Intimidate me?  555!"

[JHolmesJr]

22 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

'According to two experts I spoke with Tuesday night, one way to show corrupt intent is to look at a pattern of behavior. A bunch of individual actions that, on their own, don't conclusively prove anything about a person's state of mind can, taken together, add up to something meaningful.'

 

Isn't this the time the defence stands up and says "Objection…speculation"?

 

Sustained.

[55Jay]

4 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

Looking forward to the Comey…aka Nothingburger Sessions.

Whatever barn burners there are, or were, have already been "leaked". 

 

But ya' never know.  Comey could say the moon landings were faked. 

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, 55Jay said:

Whatever barn burners there are, or were, have already been "leaked". 

 

But ya' never know.  Comey could say the moon landings were faked. 

Clearly, that sort of thing is a lot more likely to come from Trump.

[55Jay]

Just now, ilostmypassword said:

Clearly, that sort of thing is a lot more likely to come from Trump.

Maybe Trump whispered it to him so the microphones wouldn't pick it up.  If you don't stop the investigation, I'm going to blow the whistle on the moon landings. 

[Traveler19491]

11 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

Isn't this the time the defence stands up and says "Objection…speculation"?

 

Sustained.

And the prosecution stands up and counters, "Goes to state of mind."

 

Overruled.

[JHolmesJr]

And the defence says but your honour many on thaivisa think my client doesnt have a mind. 

 

Sustained. 

[Rob13]

7 hours ago, riclag said:

This is a nothing burger.

Bit like a cop pulling you over for driving erratically. If you're not DUI or anything it's a nothing burger.

Pretty much shows trump's character and that he operates as if he's got something to hide. Could be a nothing burger. I doubt it though. Time will tell.

[55Jay]

2 minutes ago, Traveler19491 said:

And the prosecution stands up and counters, "Goes to state of mind."

 

Overruled.

Trump is a bumbling fool, not a secret genius though, right?

 

To be consist with the refrain, move to have him evaluated for competency instead. 

[ilostmypassword]

15 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

Maybe Trump whispered it to him so the microphones wouldn't pick it up.  If you don't stop the investigation, I'm going to blow the whistle on the moon landings. 

You think maybe he had an alien's eye view of the moon? 

[dutchisaan]

17 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

Looking forward to the Comey…aka Nothingburger Sessions.

For once we have a good discussion going on. Yes it took some time, but look at the last 10 post. We have people defending there opinion from different  sides, and you know what? They can agree to disagree. Just look at the likes on these post, they come from every corner, I even agree with thaibeachlover.

So, why don't you stop your trolling bs!

[JHolmesJr]

2 minutes ago, dutchisaan said:

For once we have a good discussion going on. Yes it took some time, but look at the last 10 post. We have people defending there opinion from different  sides, and you know what? They can agree to disagree. Just look at the likes on these post, they come from every corner, I even agree with thaibeachlover.

So, why don't you stop your trolling bs!

A respected tv commentator called it nothingburger....so he was trolling on live tv too? Are you kidding about the likes?

[55Jay]

4 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

You think maybe he had an alien's eye view of the moon? 

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's not even "pressure". Asking someone to do something is just that. Pressure would be adding something like "I'll make you life hell if you don't" or such.

Obstruction would be "ordering" him to stop investigating Flynn.

Or saying I will sack you if you don't tow the line!

[dunroaming]

Clocks ticking and it's nearly time.  BBC news covering it live, apparently all the bars in the US are going to be packed and people are stopping whatever they are doing to watch it.  Not bad for a "nothing burger"

[JHolmesJr]

13 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Clocks ticking and it's nearly time.  BBC news covering it live, apparently all the bars in the US are going to be packed and people are stopping whatever they are doing to watch it.  Not bad for a "nothing burger"

Bars will sell a lot of burgers....so not a nothingburger for them. 

[ilostmypassword]

37 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

A respected tv commentator called it nothingburger....so he was trolling on live tv too? Are you kidding about the likes?

Well, since you called this commentator "respected" that means you can't possibly be referring to Brit Hume.