Factbox: What happens with Brexit if there's no clear winner of UK election?

[citybiker]

I think the EU response is likely to be: United Kingdom: Nul points
 
However, you've steered clear of my own much more preliminary question, which is to question whether Brexit is a valid decision in the first place. Much simpler question. 

The U.K. Has been receiving nil points from Europe for as long as I remember, recall Eurovision Song Contest?

The EU response, IIRC Sad day & disappointing.

I also read the article, along with the author's background..... Summary;

Yet another academic that's surprised of the outcome, questions the Unknown territory the UK is currently in (obviously) and as were the first to challenge the EU and officially invoke and revert its membership anyone that questions the validity is simply clutching at straws for answers.....why?


Because they have none..


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[lamyai3]

10 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Ok, don't answer my question about a referendum on the EU's demands. I know it's a remainer's nightmare. I understand. Best to just keep hammering home the Project Fear myths.

You're asking me to answer a question on something you've taken to be cast in stone while at the same time dodging all of the previous questions on the premise it's based on. Are you a politician? 

[lamyai3]

9 minutes ago, citybiker said:

 

The U.K. Has been receiving nil points from Europe for as long as I remember, recall Eurovision Song Contest?

The EU response, IIRC Sad day & disappointing.

I also read the article, along with the author's background..... Summary;

Yet another academic that's surprised of the outcome, questions the Unknown territory the UK is currently in (obviously) and as were the first to challenge the EU and officially invoke and revert its membership anyone that questions the validity is simply clutching at straws for answers.....why?


Because they have none..


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Thanks for reading the link. The reason for posting it is to highlight the basis on which Brexit was sold and voted in, far from being democratic it had all the qualities of an insurance salesman's pitch. And yes, nul points wasn't a typo, it was a Eurovision quote 555 

 

I'm far from being a pro-European and I agree with many of the reasons behind wanting to leave, it's just the problems of attempting to extricate from such a long-standing and complex arrangement as the EU were not set out honestly. Where did we hear about the €100 billion divorce bill in the Brexit manifesto, and the trade penalties we'd incur in the future?

 

It seems that recent UK politicians like to show strength to the extent of acting the role of martyr based on stubborn principle (the head honchos in the EU Juncker and Tusk were equally stubborn on their side too)...  Cameron did it, and now May has done it, grandstanding their opinions as though they were invincible and getting knocked off their perches in the process. Why on earth should people's future rest on this kind of brinkmanship? If the will the British public, which is the raison d'etre behind the entire thing is so solid, why would it not be prudent to make sure it's really what they wanted? 

[Khun Han]

39 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Thanks for reading the link. The reason for posting it is to highlight the basis on which Brexit was sold and voted in, far from being democratic it had all the qualities of an insurance salesman's pitch. And yes, nul points wasn't a typo, it was a Eurovision quote 555 

 

I'm far from being a pro-European and I agree with many of the reasons behind wanting to leave, it's just the problems of attempting to extricate from such a long-standing and complex arrangement as the EU were not set out honestly. Where did we hear about the €100 billion divorce bill in the Brexit manifesto, and the trade penalties we'd incur in the future?

 

It seems that recent UK politicians like to show strength to the extent of acting the role of martyr based on stubborn principle (the head honchos in the EU Juncker and Tusk were equally stubborn on their side too)...  Cameron did it, and now May has done it, grandstanding their opinions as though they were invincible and getting knocked off their perches in the process. Why on earth should people's future rest on this kind of brinkmanship? If the will the British public, which is the raison d'etre behind the entire thing is so solid, why would it not be prudent to make sure it's really what they wanted? 

These pretend middle grounders are hilarious. It would be no less silly if they stated "I'm far from being European. But being anything less than European is idiocy." .

 

The intellectual dishonesty of remainers never ceases to be breathtaking. But, why would it be any different? The intelellectual dishonesty of the EU is breathtaking, right down to it's pretence that Germany isn't it's controlling force.

[lamyai3]

19 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

These pretend middle grounders are hilarious. It would be no less silly if they stated "I'm far from being European. But being anything less than European is idiocy." .

 

The intellectual dishonesty of remainers never ceases to be breathtaking. But, why would it be any different? The intelellectual dishonesty of the EU is breathtaking, right down to it's pretence that Germany isn't it's controlling force.

The people who you are now putting your trust in to control Britain's future were until very recently pro-remain. Most of these were against closer integration with Europe generally, but certainly not in favour of throwing the country down on it's own sword and exiting as a point of principle. Can you not see the contradiction? All I'm talking about here is that a vote ought to be based on proper information and appraisal of the consequences. If I'm guilty of anything, it's that I'm commenting almost a year after the event. 

 

Nonetheless, just read today's opinion column in the (other) daily paper which largely reiterates the point I'm making here. 

[citybiker]

The interesting element that got me is how it's thrown nearly all the so called experts, economists and majority of politicians (UK/EU) out of their comfort zone. And shown their true colours.

 

Since the June result, Mutual respect has never been the EU's strongpoint and the harsh tone still continues yet they've got the brass neck to say we'd welcome you back with open arms.

 

Wait a minute, we'll punish the UK mantra simply gets forgotten about?

 

The EU top table really do live in 'la la land'.

 

 

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[Khun Han]

13 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

The people who you are now putting your trust in to control Britain's future were until very recently pro-remain. Most of these were against closer integration with Europe generally, but certainly not in favour of throwing the country down on it's own sword and exiting as a point of principle. Can you not see the contradiction? All I'm talking about here is that a vote ought to be based on proper information and appraisal of the consequences. If I'm guilty of anything, it's that I'm commenting almost a year after the event. 

 

Nonetheless, just read today's opinion column in the (other) daily paper which largely reiterates the point I'm making here. 

 

That's why I propose that we have a referendum on the EU's proposals for us to leave. It's a simple yes or no answer. Either you agree with their "very reasonable" demands or you think we owe them Jack Sh1t". Result is binding. Have a problem with that?

[lamyai3]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

That's why I propose that we have a referendum on the EU's proposals for us to leave. It's a simple yes or no answer. Either you agree with their "very reasonable" demands or you think we owe them Jack Sh1t". Result is binding. Have a problem with that?

Perhaps you'd care to enlighten everyone on what exactly the proposals are, since both the UK government and the EU are playing cloak and dagger.

[Khun Han]

18 minutes ago, citybiker said:

The interesting element that got me is how it's thrown nearly all the so called experts, economists and majority of politicians (UK/EU) out of their comfort zone. And shown their true colours.

 

Since the June result, Mutual respect has never been the EU's strongpoint and the harsh tone still continues yet they've got the brass neck to say we'd welcome you back with open arms.

 

Wait a minute, we'll punish the UK mantra simply gets forgotten about?

 

The EU top table really do live in 'la la land'.

 

 

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Germany needs us for the ride. Otherwise, it's recession for them.  The Euro can only do so much for them. Bad cop, good cop.

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, lamyai3 said:

Perhaps you'd care to enlighten everyone on what exactly the proposals are, since both the UK government and the EU are playing cloak and dagger.

 

There have been enough leaks to give you and me a good idea. Intellectual honesty, my man. Intellectual honesty: the key to good debate on an internet message board that isn't going to change anything.

[lamyai3]

Honesty has been a problem from the beginning in this whole circus. 

 

Reading between the lines you sound like you're in favour of hard Brexit... no deal is better than a bad deal (or did you like the sound of the €100 bn penalty)? Problem now is May has created huge disarray within her own ranks and substantially weakened her ability to proceed along these lines.

 

This, along with the other lessons learned in the past year should surely be prompting people to have second thoughts. And to answer your question directly (you didn't care to answer mine) I think it would be very important for the EU's conditions for us to leave to be included in a second referendum on whether or not the British public really want to leave. 

[William C F Pierce]

On 2017-6-13 at 5:59 PM, citybiker said:

I do agree that the media have a staunch over zealous approach & influence.

Brexit wrong....aren't the British electorate allowed the choice to remain or leave?
(Genuine question)


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They are certainly allowed to make their choice, but at the same time they are entitled to get truthful facts and information. Honest politics hardly exist anymore. E.G. Boris Johnson claimed the seat that he first fought in Wales years ago was won this time by the Tories. When in fact it went to Labour. His claim that the money saved from Europe (£18 Billion a year) was enough to fund 1 new hospital a week. It is not going to happen and the country does not need 52 new hospitals. At least £60 Billion is going to be have to be paid to leave Europe. Were people told this before they voted for Brexit. The trouble is all the parties are a mess. It needs a new party to come into being in the same way as has happened in France in less than a year to gain power.

[ilostmypassword]

On 6/14/2017 at 8:46 AM, Khun Han said:

 

That's why I propose that we have a referendum on the EU's proposals for us to leave. It's a simple yes or no answer. Either you agree with their "very reasonable" demands or you think we owe them Jack Sh1t". Result is binding. Have a problem with that?

I noticed that you don't offer a third option: remain. Scared of what the inclusion of that might result in?

[Khun Han]

44 minutes ago, William C F Pierce said:

At least £60 Billion is going to be have to be paid to leave Europe.

 

No it isn't.

[William C F Pierce]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

No it isn't.

Than is the minimum for the UK's existing committments. It could even go as high as £100 million. If its debt were not paid then the UK's ability to access finance internationally would cause it to be blacklisted. Voting Brexit and walking away will not work. That is why all UK politicians are in a mess. Brexit is the final step in the decline of the British Empire like all other great empires before it. Never ever to recover again in greatness. You cannot dispute the truth of history.

[ilostmypassword]

7 minutes ago, William C F Pierce said:

Than is the minimum for the UK's existing committments. It could even go as high as £100 million. If its debt were not paid then the UK's ability to access finance internationally would cause it to be blacklisted. Voting Brexit and walking away will not work. That is why all UK politicians are in a mess. Brexit is the final step in the decline of the British Empire like all other great empires before it. Never ever to recover again in greatness. You cannot dispute the truth of history.

It's not as much as it seems since it will be paid over several years. It's not a lump sum.

[Khun Han]

Just now, William C F Pierce said:

Than is the minimum for the UK's existing committments. It could even go as high as £100 million. If its debt were not paid then the UK's ability to access finance internationally would cause it to be blacklisted. Voting Brexit and walking away will not work. That is why all UK politicians are in a mess. Brexit is the final step in the decline of the British Empire like all other great empires before it. Never ever to recover again in greatness. You cannot dispute the truth of history.

 

No it isn't. The UK's existing commitments, when balanced out against what the EU owes us, are next-to-nothing. The UK won't be blacklisted financially because the ridiculous divorce bill claimed by the EU is not legally enforcable. Even it's pet court is backing away from getting involved in this. Oh dear, off we go with the drama queenery again! The UK's empire fell long before any of us on here were born. Britain is not without it's faults, but it is a modern, vibrant, successful country. That's why so many people, from poor migrants to highly skilled/talented people want to live here. And things will remain that way if we manage to get away from Germany/the EU's clutches.

[citybiker]

They are certainly allowed to make their choice, but at the same time they are entitled to get truthful facts and information. Honest politics hardly exist anymore. E.G. Boris Johnson claimed the seat that he first fought in Wales years ago was won this time by the Tories. When in fact it went to Labour. His claim that the money saved from Europe (£18 Billion a year) was enough to fund 1 new hospital a week. It is not going to happen and the country does not need 52 new hospitals. At least £60 Billion is going to be have to be paid to leave Europe. Were people told this before they voted for Brexit. The trouble is all the parties are a mess. It needs a new party to come into being in the same way as has happened in France in less than a year to gain power.

I concur that honest politics hardly exist anymore & yes all the parties are in a poor state, I don't know where people are sourcing this Brexit figure as nobody apart from the treasury & EU will be aware.

Ever since Blair lied & the MP's expenses scandal the integrity of some of UK politics bought to account.

However, there's also an element of the electorate seeing through the political spin, and not believing everything a politician tells us.


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