New To All This And Need Advice.

[jbsears]

I would take the advice of one of the previous posters and hire a private detective. They're pretty popular in Thailand since lots of guys go back home and want to check up on their girls. It may cost a couple or few hundred US$ but it will be a great investment. It will let you know if you can truly trust her.

Oh yeah, and to back up the others, I also have met guys that come and fall in love girls in only a few days and then end up screwed. One friend came and fell in love with a girl in Phuket. Not a bargirl as he said, but a hostess at that Crocodile club (I would consider bargirl). Went home and called her and chatted online for a longtime. She said she stopped the bar scene and all and finally moved back home. He talked to her family too. Finally, one time he called and her HUSBAND answered her phone and told him to stop contacting her. Broke his heart.

[gburns57au]

It's because I'm sick and tired of being single. It's been 6 and 1/2 years since I had a failed relationship with an Anglo-Aussie girl that was, for all intents and purposes headed toward marriage before it ended up on the rocks. I'm almost 33 and I've never even tasted marriage. I want to settle down and raise a family, and I'll go to any length to accomplish this goal.

Aye Jim me Lad....well somebody had to say it....

Again dont let your own situation rule your head...you maybe eager to do all this...but keep a perspective on things...Rome was not built in a day.

What you will find is that if you take a Thai girl back to Oz...people will just assume that you have taken a mail order bride....that she worked in a bar etc... Nothing you can do or say will convince them otherwise....she will cop her fair share of innuendo and BS...these are also things you need to consider and they dont go away...you cant go around punching everyone on the nose over it...what I am saying is that all being well and good with Kai, you will find that being with an Asian girl in Oz will bring its own problems and a new level of tolerance is required.

Also start having a look around at the local Thais there....there are some that will fill her head with BS....find some good ones and they will look after her....the wrong ones will make her life and yours miserable.

You have chosen a hard road to take....done right the rewards are great...but there are many hazards yet to be faced...there are many here on TV who will assist as best they can....just ask.

[gburns57au]

I would take the advice of one of the previous posters and hire a private detective. They're pretty popular in Thailand since lots of guys go back home and want to check up on their girls. It may cost a couple or few hundred US$ but it will be a great investment. It will let you know if you can truly trust her.

Oh yeah, and to back up the others, I also have met guys that come and fall in love girls in only a few days and then end up screwed. One friend came and fell in love with a girl in Phuket. Not a bargirl as he said, but a hostess at that Crocodile club (I would consider bargirl). Went home and called her and chatted online for a longtime. She said she stopped the bar scene and all and finally moved back home. He talked to her family too. Finally, one time he called and her HUSBAND answered her phone and told him to stop contacting her. Broke his heart.

An honest Husband....how unique....

Private detective

Typical American response.....dont trust, find someone else to check it out....this from a nation that goes to a shrink with a headache to find out why.

If you have enough doubt to hire a PI.....why are you in the relationship ??? Obviously there is something that is not right with the situation to cause a third party to become involved....save the cost of the PI and bail out of the relationship...

A relationship is about trust and respect !!!

[jbsears]

I would take the advice of one of the previous posters and hire a private detective. They're pretty popular in Thailand since lots of guys go back home and want to check up on their girls. It may cost a couple or few hundred US$ but it will be a great investment. It will let you know if you can truly trust her.

Oh yeah, and to back up the others, I also have met guys that come and fall in love girls in only a few days and then end up screwed. One friend came and fell in love with a girl in Phuket. Not a bargirl as he said, but a hostess at that Crocodile club (I would consider bargirl). Went home and called her and chatted online for a longtime. She said she stopped the bar scene and all and finally moved back home. He talked to her family too. Finally, one time he called and her HUSBAND answered her phone and told him to stop contacting her. Broke his heart.

An honest Husband....how unique....

Private detective

Typical American response.....dont trust, find someone else to check it out....this from a nation that goes to a shrink with a headache to find out why.

If you have enough doubt to hire a PI.....why are you in the relationship ??? Obviously there is something that is not right with the situation to cause a third party to become involved....save the cost of the PI and bail out of the relationship...

A relationship is about trust and respect !!!

You are quite right here. If you need a PI, then you are in trouble in the first place. But with a relationship based on 4 days, I would make an exception on this one.

To the OP, I'm heading down to Patong on Monday for the week. If you want to know how she takes to another fella, let me know where she hangs out. I'M FREE, and she'll never know you are checking up on her.

[loong]

Phew quite a few comments on this post. Just checking b4 I go to bed and I think that I have something to say but will wait till tomorrow.

Must say, drunk as I am, I am impressed with the responses to this thread that initially appeared to be another troll.

There's a lot of maturity here in TV and I hope that you appreciate that you are amongst friends Jim Lad, ( well maybe there was one post not so mature)

Good night JimLad and everyone else - will talk to you tomorrow...................

[britmaveric]

To the OP, I'm heading down to Patong on Monday for the week. If you want to know how she takes to another fella, let me know where she hangs out. I'M FREE, and she'll never know you are checking up on her.

Did this myself for a lad from TV who was smitten with a massage lady in Patong, he sent me her details and I went in for a massage. I was happy to report she was above board and very nice lady.

[Mighty Mouse]

If this girl possesses a jealous streak, it will take a long time for her to lose it, if she loses it at all.

Jealousy is a sign of insecurity and could lead to many unpleasant situations.

You have only been together for such a short time and already you have experienced the silent treatment because of what she imagines is happening back in Australia.

That is not a good sign.

There is some excellent advice given in these posts to date, particularly the advice given by Britmaveric re the dowry and his experience with a hairdresser, who is not a bar girl but who is in close regular contact with farangs.

I suspect that your girl is in a similar occupation which may explain her eagerness for you to whisk her away to your homeland.

She probably imagines you to be mega rich as compared to Thai boys and her eyes won't be opened to reality until she visits Australia and realises that our income may be higher as compared to wages in Thailand, but our expenses are also much higher.

I trust that you have fully explained to her that your living standard in Australia may not be as luxurious as she may imagine.

You seem determined to pursue this relationship and I sincerely hope that it has a happy ending for both of you. In reading your responses to the various posts I now believe that you have your head screwed on and won't rush proceedings.

Your initial post was to inquire about a visa.

Consider only a tourist visa at this point in time. By now you should be fully aware of all the requirements. Good luck.

As an aside, have you been to any of the Thai functions in Australia? In Sydney there are many gatherings for the Thai community with thousands of single Thai women in attendance.

If Aussies want to marry Thai women, there is no need to travel to Thailand to find romance.

[oxymoron]

Sorry, forgot to answer your question.

you said you dont have a lot of time to waste, is there a reason for that ??....I am about to marry my girl and I am considerably older than you are.

It's because I'm sick and tired of being single. It's been 6 and 1/2 years since I had a failed relationship with an Anglo-Aussie girl that was, for all intents and purposes headed toward marriage before it ended up on the rocks. I'm almost 33 and I've never even tasted marriage. I want to settle down and raise a family, and I'll go to any length to accomplish this goal.

Dont you just love it when you meet a Thai girl everyone assumes that you met her in a bar or that she is of ill repute...trust me you will get that from a lot of people back in Sydney also....it can be a pain.....

Very true...

I also cop flack from my married friends/work friends for going over to Phuket in the first place. Without any proof whatsoever they automatically assume that because I'm single I go over there for the sole purpose of having a cheap root-fest.

There the very same sort of people who want me to get married, but they also want me to marry an Anglo-Aussie girl who is not attractive, all because; "Let's face it, you're no Brad Pitt yourself and hence, can't afford to be picky!"

jimlad I wont rain on your parade as I can see you feel others may be. Although I assure you they are not it is just that they are offerring the benefit of their experience.

I wish to offer you another point, you say your lady has a child, I assume she was married before. If this is the case you need her to send you a copy of the divorce papers, get them translated in Oz and be sure she has sole custody of the child. Tell her you need them to work on her visa, you have to learn to lie like Thai's do.

If after this you find all is sweet and she does have custody of the child push on. If she does not have legal custody and was not legally married "run like hel_l" because in this Thai society the law is biased towards the registered father.

I tell you this because I am one of the 0.01% of lucky farang and have been happily married for 20 years now. But even though my TW was divorced she did not have custody. It took 7 years and $50,000 AUD to get the child and make her happy.

[gburns57au]

jimlad I wont rain on your parade as I can see you feel others may be. Although I assure you they are not it is just that they are offerring the benefit of their experience.

I wish to offer you another point, you say your lady has a child, I assume she was married before. If this is the case you need her to send you a copy of the divorce papers, get them translated in Oz and be sure she has sole custody of the child. Tell her you need them to work on her visa, you have to learn to lie like Thai's do.

If after this you find all is sweet and she does have custody of the child push on. If she does not have legal custody and was not legally married "run like hel_l" because in this Thai society the law is biased towards the registered father.

I tell you this because I am one of the 0.01% of lucky farang and have been happily married for 20 years now. But even though my TW was divorced she did not have custody. It took 7 years and $50,000 AUD to get the child and make her happy.

Why assume she was married before, many Thai couples have children without a legal marriage. The OP has said that Kai told him she was not married to the guy.

From the OP's post it is fairly clear that the child is staying with Kai's mother, another common practice, and the ex partner abandoned her and the child, very few Thai men would take a child with them in these circumstances unless they felt that the mother was unfit.

If she was legally married to her ex then yes she will need divorce papers if Jimlad decides to bring Kai to Oz on a spouse visa. Proof of custody will be required if Jimlad brings the child to Oz for a holiday or to live here, This can be done with a letter from the ex giving permission for the child to be taken to another country or in the case where the father cannot be found, a letter from the courts giving Kai sole custody rights. Jimlad will find help here when that time comes for him and Kai.

Interested to know why it took so long and so much to get the child from your wifes ex...perhaps another topic ??

Edited December 31, 2006 by gburns57au

[oxymoron]

jimlad I wont rain on your parade as I can see you feel others may be. Although I assure you they are not it is just that they are offerring the benefit of their experience.

I wish to offer you another point, you say your lady has a child, I assume she was married before. If this is the case you need her to send you a copy of the divorce papers, get them translated in Oz and be sure she has sole custody of the child. Tell her you need them to work on her visa, you have to learn to lie like Thai's do.

If after this you find all is sweet and she does have custody of the child push on. If she does not have legal custody and was not legally married "run like hel_l" because in this Thai society the law is biased towards the registered father.

I tell you this because I am one of the 0.01% of lucky farang and have been happily married for 20 years now. But even though my TW was divorced she did not have custody. It took 7 years and $50,000 AUD to get the child and make her happy.

Why assume she was married before, many Thai couples have children without a legal marriage. The OP has said that Kai told him she was not married to the guy.

From the OP's post it is fairly clear that the child is staying with Kai's mother, another common practice, and the ex partner abandoned her and the child, very few Thai men would take a child with them in these circumstances unless they felt that the mother was unfit.

If she was legally married to her ex then yes she will need divorce papers if Jimlad decides to bring Kai to Oz on a spouse visa. Proof of custody will be required if Jimlad brings the child to Oz for a holiday or to live here, This can be done with a letter from the ex giving permission for the child to be taken to another country or in the case where the father cannot be found, a letter from the courts giving Kai sole custody rights. Jimlad will find help here when that time comes for him and Kai.

Interested to know why it took so long and so much to get the child from your wifes ex...perhaps another topic ??

GB everything you say is correct, however I feel you are confirming the theory of this type of exercise. Possibly you have not lived through it.

Like the OP we lived far from Bangkok but all the paperwork had to be be done in Bangkok.

Things that really happen are:

The father buzzes off or is put in jail and gives the "legal custody to his parents"

All Thais use a nick name so after the lawyers. amphurs prepare documents they sign with their nickname which is normal practice but unacceptable at Thai Law.

Grandparents (on the male side) are typical patriotic xenophobic Thais and block every step.

Grandparents see the "gravy train" drying up or them being lonely when the child leaves.

I made the post in good faith because the OP said he was 32 has a mortgage and gave me the opinion he is an average middle class good guy with limited funds. Because of this the child situation is very real and making a cross cultural marriage work after the "heat wears off" is a real challenge without the stress of this issue.

[gburns57au]

GB everything you say is correct, however I feel you are confirming the theory of this type of exercise. Possibly you have not lived through it.

Like the OP we lived far from Bangkok but all the paperwork had to be be done in Bangkok.

Things that really happen are:

The father buzzes off or is put in jail and gives the "legal custody to his parents"

All Thais use a nick name so after the lawyers. amphurs prepare documents they sign with their nickname which is normal practice but unacceptable at Thai Law.

Grandparents (on the male side) are typical patriotic xenophobic Thais and block every step.

Grandparents see the "gravy train" drying up or them being lonely when the child leaves.

I made the post in good faith because the OP said he was 32 has a mortgage and gave me the opinion he is an average middle class good guy with limited funds. Because of this the child situation is very real and making a cross cultural marriage work after the "heat wears off" is a real challenge without the stress of this issue.

Currently my fiance and I are in the process of getting a visa for her son so he can come to Oz for a few weeks, she was abandoned by her common law husband. So I have been looking into the custody issue quite a bit. Luckily for us the ex has disappeared and had no contact since the day he left so she will get the relevent documents from the amphur or court. If the ex was still around then he could complicate things a little. I have heard of situations where the Thai father wants some financial reward for granting permission for a child to leave the country.

I agree that the situation you put forward can occur in regards to the Thai man taking the child....but it is far more common for the child to be left with the mother...most Thai men dont want the responsibilty of having to provide for the child or have the child getting in the way of future dalliances.

The child custody issue for Jimlad is going to be down the track a bit...he has some time to check it all out before he needs to concern himself with that issue. By then his relationship with Kai should have sorted itself out.

[loong]

Helllo there Jimlad, been reviewing this topic again.

This post has taken some time to write so I hope you and others in a similar position take the trouble to read it

I'm comming back in early June next year to meet her Parents in Kalasin. I've spoken to her parents (briefly because they don't speak much English) and her sister on the phone and they all seem nice people. Kai also has a 2 and 1/2 year old Daughter from a previous relationship. Kai tells me that her Mother wants me to marry her in June

Kai has already told me about the unfortunate Dowry that I'll have to haggle with her folks and I've already let her know about my probs in getting the funds for the dowry. (I'll probably end up having to get a personal loan)

her mother has suggested that we marry in June. Kai has also told me before that according to Thai custom, her parents seek the advice of buddhist monks as to when the best date (day, month etc) to get married for luck and prosperity purposes for the marriage

It seems to me that after spending 4 days with a girl, you are considering not returning until June and then getting married straight away. The luck and prosperity you refer to applies to the family in this case - not the marriage

Do not put yourself in debt to pay the SinSod. Have you actually discussed an amount? I can't imagine that it would be any more than 50,000 Baht and if you cannot afford this, you cannot afford to get married!

Consider the realities of the situation. Your girl has told you that if you can't afford to send her money that you don't have to.

If you are not sending her money now, that will change immediately you get married. It would be unacceptable that you do not support her after marriage.

I think it very unlikely that you could get a Visa for her after actually spending only a few days together, married or not, so she will be in Thailand and you will be working in Australia. Expect a long wait before she is able to join you in Australia.

How much money will you send her each month? She has a child and a Farang husband, so I would expect a minimum of 10,000. I know a lot of girls get between 20 and 30,000, but hopefully the demands will be lighter on you.

Now get a pen and paper or calculator......add together

Your mortgage repayments

Your living expenses in Australia

Loan repayments for the Dowry (SinSod)

10,000 Baht minimum for your wife

one 6th of the total cost of 6-monthly trips to Thailand

Now deduct this from you monthly net income - how does it look? As you have been unable to save money up to now, you must be spending all of your income. So can you afford it?

Take into account that there will be regular family emergencies that will require cash of 30 to 100,000 Baht.

Of course none of this would apply if the family are rich. But if this is the case the Mother would never allow her to marry you. A rich Thai family would only consider a very rich Farang as suitable.

QUOTE(pumpuiman @ 2006-12-29 21:36:46)

2. She never asked for anything....."It's up to you"

She has never pressured me into anything. She's even stated that if I can't afford to send her money or buy her things it's O.K. at the end of the day, she still wants to be with me.

QUOTE(pumpuiman @ 2006-12-29 21:36:46)

3. You offered to send her money...your idea...every month.

No.

Something not quite right here! She's stated that "if I can't afford to send her money or buy her things it's O.K.". You didn't offer to send her money, but someone had to bring up the subject for her to make this statement.

.

I love her dearly, but I am proceeding with caution, don't worry. I've had many failed relationships in the past, at 32 I'm not getting any younger. The slightest notion I get that I'm wasting my time with Kai, and I'll be bidding her "Goodbye" I can't afford to waste much more time on women. But at this stage, all vibes and evidence that I'm getting would suggest that she is genuine

You've had a lot of failed relationships in the past. During the early days of these failed relationships did all the vibes and evidence suggest that she was genuine? If they did, you should learn from your errors and take things slowly.

So in other words I should dump her now because, as you put it.... it's consistent with a ploy that's characteristic of every farang-bar gir relationship?

I'm sorry, I stand by my conviction... why would any Thai girl that just wants to milk money out of me give a rats rectum if I was sleeping with other women at home?

For me, there's just too much evidence that she is genuine. I've spoke to her older Sister three times, and her parents etc. all are excited that I'm comming to see them in June. She's told me about Tahi wedding customs and been totally up-front and honest with me about the dowry etc.

Nobody suggests that you dump her, just be aware of the pitfalls and take your time.

A Thai girl who wants to milk money from you would not want you to see other girls because you could forget her and money you spend on the other is money she can't get her hands on!

I reiterate, I'm sure that the evidence was overwhelming with your previous failed relationships.

Loong, I don't believe that you are raining on my parade, and I appreciate the fact that you are trying to warn me, however I've heard all the negativity before.

Believe me Loong, I am proceeding with extreme caution. I've been the victim of Bad relationships in Australia, which is why I'm looking for love Overseas. I get the picture that Thai women, (In this case, Kai) will be more loyal, honest, devoted and faithful than Australian women and I only hope to God that I'm right!

At the first sign that she's not genuine, don't worry, I'm pulling the plug. As I've said, I've little enough precious time to waste on women who aren't genuine as it is.

I would say that you honestly have a better chance of a good relationship in Australia than here in Thailand.

If you think that Thai women, (In this case, Kai) will be more loyal, honest, devoted and faithful than Australian women, the reality is that they are probably not too different, some good , some bad. A lot of westerners have the misconception that Asian ladies are subservient and devoted to their men. Probably true a few generations back, but very rare now.

It's because I'm sick and tired of being single. It's been 6 and 1/2 years since I had a failed relationship with an Anglo-Aussie girl that was, for all intents and purposes headed toward marriage before it ended up on the rocks. I'm almost 33 and I've never even tasted marriage. I want to settle down and raise a family, and I'll go to any length to accomplish this goal.

Being sick and tired of being single is no reason to get married in fact more a recipe for disaster. It seems that you came here to seek love and marriage. You cannot search for love, love will find you in time. People who are desperate to get married are usually blind to the realities of life and love.

There the very same sort of people who want me to get married, but they also want me to marry an Anglo-Aussie girl who is not attractive, all because; "Let's face it, you're no Brad Pitt yourself and hence, can't afford to be picky!"

Do you only expect to fall in love with a woman that is physically attractive??

Now we are getting to what may be the root of your past problems.

Having a beautiful exterior is totally unimportant when it comes to love. You have heard the expression "Beauty is only skin deep"? This is very true. It is what's inside that counts. You will only find true love if you stop being so shallow (sorry, I don't mean to insult you). Take a good long hard look at yourself and think about how much you contributed to your past failed relationships.

I'm not looking for a relationship at the moment but a few weeks back, I met this stunningly beautiful girl. Guess what, she's not at all attractive facially! Maybe not too good to look at, but an absolute delight to talk to and to spend time with. She's not been in Pattaya long and speaks no English at the moment so has not yet made the transition to Bar Girl mentality. If I was looking for a relationship, this is the type of girl I would go for. A beautiful face would be a bonus but not really important.

Yes I met her in a bar.

Just remember, don't rush into anything. You still have plenty of time, you're only 32

Don't borrow money. If you have to borrow money, then you can't afford it!

A couple more things to add..

Some time ago, I was staying in Chiang Rai, went to a restaurant and got chatting to the waitress. She had just returned from spending 3 months in Germany with her new husband. She was waitressing while trying to sort out a visa based on marriage to allow her to go back to Germany. We went for a drink after she finished work and despite constantly telling me how much she loved her "Jai Dee" husband we had one h**l of a time in bed that night.

She wasn't a bar girl

Recently, I' had been enjoying the company of a lovely young lady. We connected on many levels, not just sexually. We had a great time together, but eventually she had to tell the truth. She had a Norwegian fiancée and now had a 3 month visa to go to Norway to see her husband to be. She made it clear that she would rather stay with me here in Thailand, but I was unwilling to make that commitment. This Norwegian had sent the money for her Visa and air ticket and she was quite prepared to dump him with hardly a second thought. He, of course thinks that she has been true to him and that they totally love each other. She's in Norway now.

She doesn't work in a bar either Right little goers, these cleaners

I have over the last few years made friends with a guy from Denmark and he has this beautiful young girlfriend. I actually knew the girl first as she is an ex of a mate and she introduced me to the Danish guy. He has been sending her money every month and visits twice a year. They intend to get married, but have not set a date.

The problem is that she brings her temporary Farang boyfriends to eat at the same place as me and I have had to say to her that if her fiancée ever asked I would tell the truth, but I would not offer the info unasked. She was horrified and I have not seen her since.

Guess what - she was a cook, not a bar girl

These girls have two things in common, they are not bargirls and their Farang boyfriends believe that this is the love of their lives.