sandrabbit Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said: I didn't take him that way. IMO more about rubberneckers getting in the way of emergency services. also if a fire alarm was generated the incoming gas supply would have been shutoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandrabbit Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) 20 hours ago, JamJar said: I've an idea. Why not do a big ACM cladding job, wherein you owe, say £1,000,000 to creditors? Then you put yourself in to administration; Pre-pack administration say, where you can then immediately purchase the distressed assets of the former company for a song. Therefore you have your company intact without the bothersome creditors and a lot more money for yourself. https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03244209/officers Harley Curtain Wall (Old company) https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03991613/officers Harley Facades (New company) https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3802860/couple-whose-company-were-responsible-for-cladding-at-tragic-grenfell-tower-hide-away-in-1million-home/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administration_(law)#Pre-pack_administration Pre-pack administration http://www.constructionenquirer.com/2015/09/14/cladding-firm-harley-curtain-wall-pre-packed/ Just an wild and crazy idea. No one would actually do such a thing.....even worse if something horrible, such a disastrous fire, would shine a light on such a tale of greed. Heaven forbid that such a thing could be true. are you a professional researcher by chance, the stuff you came up with so quickly the other night was impressive?. I was searching the same time as you, from Thailand but using google UK didn't turn up the things you did. Edited June 16, 2017 by sandrabbit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandrabbit Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 more leading questions from sky reporters .............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandrabbit Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) watching sky news it looks like Pakistan or Bangladesh rather than London. more protesters moving in, wait for the riots and stealing .............. Edited June 16, 2017 by sandrabbit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here It Is Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, sandrabbit said: watching sky news it looks like Pakistan or Bangladesh rather than London. more protesters moving in, wait for the riots and stealing .............. ... and the obligatory arson [oh the irony]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandrabbit Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, Here It Is said: ... and the obligatory arson [oh the irony]. and the <deleted> idiots are wasting more money by tying up public services, irony .... there will be corporate manslaughter but unlike the countries they come from it has go through law in the UK Edited June 17, 2017 by metisdead Profanity removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandrabbit Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 there will be rioting and theft tonight, police should shoot to kill catching anyone rioting and looting. this has happened so many times, the looters will be organising themselves now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) So is this the upshot of things, as reported by the BBC??? The tower was renovated in 2016, but.... Quote While fire sprinkler systems have been required in new high-rise residential buildings in England since 2007, it is not compulsory to retrofit them into existing buildings. So Grenfell Tower had none. Former chief fire officer Ronnie King, honorary secretary of the all-party parliamentary group on fire safety and rescue - which had recommended fitting sprinklers to buildings to save lives - said the regulations "badly need updating" and "three successive ministers have not done it". http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-40290158 If the above BBC info is correct, then London's fire safety laws for high rises are no better than those in BKK, and may even be worse, because BKK supposedly had some requirement to add sprinklers to older building if they eventually undergo renovation. In my experience with fire safety laws, that latter approach is an often used and common sense one -- it's not always economically realistic to simply require every older high rise to have sprinkers by a certain date. But it's certainly realistic to say to the owner that hey, if you're going to spend money to renovate other aspects of the building, then you are going to be required to add sprinklers at part of that work. Quote Originally built as municipal housing as part of the slum clearances of the 1960s, it had 120 one- and two-bedroom flats over 20 of its 24 storeys, and was renovated in 2016. It would seem some authorities there in London have a lot of blood on their hands. Edited June 16, 2017 by TallGuyJohninBKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandrabbit Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: So is this the upshot of things, as reported by the BBC. The tower was renovated in 2016, but.... http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-40290158 If the above BBC info is correct, then London's fire safety laws for high rises are no better than those in BKK, and may even be worse, because BKK supposedly had some requirement to add sprinklers to older building if they eventually undergo renovation. In my experience with fire safety laws, that latter approach is an often used and common sense one -- it's not always economically realistic to simply require every older high rise to have sprinkers by a certain date. But it's certainly realistic to say to the owner that hey, if you're going to spend money to renovate other aspects of the building, then you are going to be required to add sprinklers at part of that work. It would seem some authorities there in London have a lot of blood on their hands. and apparently the cost would have been only 200K pounds but to be fair to the council the residents wanted the new hot water boilers and some other things instead of having sprinklers, they just wanted their homes back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, sandrabbit said: and apparently the cost would have been only 200K pounds but to be fair to the council the residents wanted the new hot water boilers and some other things instead of having sprinklers, they just wanted their homes back. Either way, it shouldn't be up to the tenants to decide whether or not their building should be made to comply with normal fire safety standards for high-rises. The local authorities failed by not legally mandating older high-rises to be retrofitted with sprinklers when a certain amount of renovation work is done. Had such a law been in place, there wouldn't have been anything for the tenants to debate or discuss about it. The sprinklers would have been required, and the rest of the renovations they could discuss as they liked. But now, instead, too many are just dead. The law should have been there, and such a law would have made the tenant discussions irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandrabbit Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: Either way, it shouldn't be up to the tenants to decide whether or not their building should be made to comply with normal fire safety standards for high-rises. The local authorities failed by not legally mandating older high-rises to be retrofitted with sprinklers when a certain amount of renovation work is done. Had such a law been in place, there wouldn't have been anything for the tenants to debate or discuss about it. The sprinklers would have been required, and the rest of the renovations they could discuss as they liked. But now, instead, too many are just dead. The law should have been there, and such a regulation would have made the tenant discussions irrelevant. you are 100% correct but the sprinkler installation regulation only applies to new builds, councils and private landlords are allowed to keep the status quo. Edited June 16, 2017 by sandrabbit changing law to regulation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 1 minute ago, sandrabbit said: you are 100% correct but the sprinkler installation law only applies to new builds, councils and private landlords are allowed to keep the status quo. And that's where the local authorities failed BIG-TIME, and why I said they pretty much have blood on their hands. When government fails to take normal, reasonable measures/laws to protect the public, at some point, there's going to be a price to be paid for that failure. And that certainly has now occurred in this case. Over the years, I've seen and experienced too many high-rise fires where people were needlessly killed and injured, because the money-interests of property owners in influencing local elected officials outweighed the recommendations of local fire departments and authorities, who almost always would say that high-rises need to have sprinklers, because they simply can't effectively fight fires otherwise once the building is taller than 7 stories or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandrabbit Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 9 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: Either way, it shouldn't be up to the tenants to decide whether or not their building should be made to comply with normal fire safety standards for high-rises. The local authorities failed by not legally mandating older high-rises to be retrofitted with sprinklers when a certain amount of renovation work is done. Had such a law been in place, there wouldn't have been anything for the tenants to debate or discuss about it. The sprinklers would have been required, and the rest of the renovations they could discuss as they liked. But now, instead, too many are just dead. The law should have been there, and such a law would have made the tenant discussions irrelevant. I will point out that sprinklers wouldn't have changed much as the fire went up the outside of the building but they might have allowed more people to escape and be able to breathe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flustered Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 10 minutes ago, sandrabbit said: I will point out that sprinklers wouldn't have changed much as the fire went up the outside of the building but they might have allowed more people to escape and be able to breathe. A point that will be waisted on many FMs who only see this as a political issue and not a tragic one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here It Is Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 46 minutes ago, sandrabbit said: more protesters moving in, wait for the riots and stealing .............. There's obviously so much shit stirring going down here from Lilly Allen and the usual agitators. Didn't see any of this lot protesting after our kids were decapitated and maimed in the Manchester attack and not a peep either after Borough Market or Westminster Bridge [right on their doorstep] and all very recent events. Notwithstanding, there's a huge charity undertaking that's raised millions already for those affected. This situation needs to calm soonest as the very generous British public will soon lose faith and quite rightly turn their back. Throw in another terror attack for good measure and things could well go tits right up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Flustered said: A point that will be waisted on many FMs who only see this as a political issue and not a tragic one. Fire sprinklers obviously are designed to prevent and limit the spread of a fire INSIDE a building where the residents/people are located, and in the areas where they would need to go (inside hallways and stairwells) in the event of an emergency. Had the high-rise been fitted with a proper sprinklers system, I'm sure the casualty outcome would have been much better. But that said, there's a whole separate legal/building standards issue regarding what kind of exterior cladding was used on the building and whether that was properly handled. PS - I'm not British and I have no local political stake/interest/opinion related to all this. I do have some background in building/fire safety issues, however, and in that regard, the local authorities there seem to have failed miserably. Edited June 16, 2017 by TallGuyJohninBKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flustered Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/15/man-whose-flat-started-grenfell-blaze-packed-luggage-before-raising-alarm-6710853/ Really do not know what to say about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandrabbit Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 9 minutes ago, Flustered said: http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/15/man-whose-flat-started-grenfell-blaze-packed-luggage-before-raising-alarm-6710853/ Really do not know what to say about this. I don't think it's true from witness reports. let us stick with facts please, or at least educated guesses .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flustered Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Just now, sandrabbit said: I don't think it's true from witness reports. let us stick with facts please, or at least educated guesses .......... Witness reports in all of the papers confirm this. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/what-caused-grenfell-tower-fire-all-the-theories/ https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/jun/16/mail-online-story-about-alleged-cause-of-grenfell-fire-prompts-more-than-1100-complaints https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3805218/what-caused-london-tower-block-fire-grenfell-tower/ http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-cause-fridge-faulty-fourth-floor-london-kensington-disaster-latest-a7792566.html Sorry, I have just noticed that Lily Allen did not report this so it cannot be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandrabbit Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Flustered said: Witness reports in all of the papers confirm this. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/what-caused-grenfell-tower-fire-all-the-theories/ https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/jun/16/mail-online-story-about-alleged-cause-of-grenfell-fire-prompts-more-than-1100-complaints https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3805218/what-caused-london-tower-block-fire-grenfell-tower/ http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-cause-fridge-faulty-fourth-floor-london-kensington-disaster-latest-a7792566.html Sorry, I have just noticed that Lily Allen did not report this so it cannot be true. ok lol, let me read through them ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandrabbit Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Flustered said: Witness reports in all of the papers confirm this. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/what-caused-grenfell-tower-fire-all-the-theories/ https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/jun/16/mail-online-story-about-alleged-cause-of-grenfell-fire-prompts-more-than-1100-complaints https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3805218/what-caused-london-tower-block-fire-grenfell-tower/ http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-cause-fridge-faulty-fourth-floor-london-kensington-disaster-latest-a7792566.html Sorry, I have just noticed that Lily Allen did not report this so it cannot be true. I was quoting you talking about luggage, I know where the fire started but the the articles don't say he was running away with luggage Edited June 16, 2017 by sandrabbit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flustered Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 To quote the first hand report... The deadly fire that broke out at Grenfell Tower was caused by a faulty fridge in a fourth-floor apartment, reports suggest. The flat’s owner, said to be mini-cab driver Behailu Kebede, reportedly attempted to warn other residents about the blaze in his kitchen, potentially saving lives. Neighbours told how Mr Kebede, a father of one, immediately raised the alarm after discovering the fire in his flat, which was number 16 in the 24-story block, as well as contacting the police and fire services. Maryann Adam, 41, lived next door to Mr Kebede at number 14. She said her neighbour had woken her up to warn her about the fire. “He knocked on the door, and he said there was a fire in his flat,” She told MailOnline. “It was exactly 12.50am because I was sleeping and it woke me up. “The fire was small in the kitchen. I could see it because the flat door was open. There was no alarm.” The account appears to back up reports in the hours immediately after the fire suggesting a faulty fridge had been to blame, but investigators said their inquiries are at an early stage and have not confirmed what started the blaze. The account appears to back up reports in the hours immediately after the fire suggesting a faulty fridge had been to blame, but investigators said their inquiries are at an early stage and have not confirmed what started the blaze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandrabbit Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Flustered said: To quote the first hand report... The deadly fire that broke out at Grenfell Tower was caused by a faulty fridge in a fourth-floor apartment, reports suggest. The flat’s owner, said to be mini-cab driver Behailu Kebede, reportedly attempted to warn other residents about the blaze in his kitchen, potentially saving lives. Neighbours told how Mr Kebede, a father of one, immediately raised the alarm after discovering the fire in his flat, which was number 16 in the 24-story block, as well as contacting the police and fire services. Maryann Adam, 41, lived next door to Mr Kebede at number 14. She said her neighbour had woken her up to warn her about the fire. “He knocked on the door, and he said there was a fire in his flat,” She told MailOnline. “It was exactly 12.50am because I was sleeping and it woke me up. “The fire was small in the kitchen. I could see it because the flat door was open. There was no alarm.” The account appears to back up reports in the hours immediately after the fire suggesting a faulty fridge had been to blame, but investigators said their inquiries are at an early stage and have not confirmed what started the blaze. The account appears to back up reports in the hours immediately after the fire suggesting a faulty fridge had been to blame, but investigators said their inquiries are at an early stage and have not confirmed what started the blaze. again he didn't run away with luggage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flustered Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, sandrabbit said: I was quoting you talking about luggage, I know where the fire started but the the articles don't say he was running away with luggage You might have said that in the first place. I never commented on the luggage bit, just the report. It was his neighbour who said he had packed his clothes. Edited June 16, 2017 by Flustered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandrabbit Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Flustered said: You might have said that in the first place. I never commented on the luggage bit, just the report. sorry m8 but you started the luggage thing lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flustered Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, sandrabbit said: sorry m8 but you started the luggage thing lol Wake up and stop drinking. I never mentioned the word luggage. I linked a report that had a reference to luggage in it. I was at a loss because no one was commenting on the cause just the result. My point was the fact that the apparent cause of the fire was known so stop putting words in my mouth. Reading back you state "I don't think it's true from witness reports. let us stick with facts please, or at least educated guesses" .....What witness reports. How about a link. Edited June 16, 2017 by Flustered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here It Is Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Let's consider the seat of the fire as almost secondary to subsequent events. The block 'shouldn't have' erupted into an inferno due to a small fridge fire or even a big fridge fire. I'm sure we can agree on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flustered Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Just now, Here It Is said: Let's consider the seat of the fire as almost secondary to subsequent events. The block 'shouldn't have' erupted into an inferno due to a small fridge fire or even a big fridge fire. I'm sure we can agree on that. I completely disagree. The cause of the fire is of paramount importance as it then goes to showing why the fire spread so quickly. It all depends on the type of fire, the amount of time the fire was burning before any action was taken and were there any smoke detectors fitted in the flats or hallways. If the cause was electrical, then that requires a major review of the installations in the blocks. If the cause was gas, that's another area and so on. This investigation needs to be carried out thoroughly and not a knee jerk one as many people want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here It Is Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Just now, Flustered said: I completely disagree. The cause of the fire is of paramount importance as it then goes to showing why the fire spread so quickly. It all depends on the type of fire, the amount of time the fire was burning before any action was taken and were there any smoke detectors fitted in the flats or hallways. If the cause was electrical, then that requires a major review of the installations in the blocks. If the cause was gas, that's another area and so on. This investigation needs to be carried out thoroughly and not a knee jerk one as many people want. Flustered, my point is is that if I set my under crackers on fire in a fit of pique in my fourth floor flat then it shouldn't, regulation wise, have spread to the entire block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balo Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 23 minutes ago, Flustered said: The deadly fire that broke out at Grenfell Tower was caused by a faulty fridge in a fourth-floor apartment, reports suggest. The flat’s owner, said to be mini-cab driver Behailu Kebe How can a fridge start a fire ? Should we be worried ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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