Thakkar Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, daboyz1 said: Making contributions to society is irrelevant. Making money is the name of the game. If it happens to improve society so be it. I can imagine telling the investors "I know I lost all of your money, but I made a contribution to society" That's living in fantasy land. Business is business. It's not a charity. We were talking specifically about Elon Musk. He already made his money. After that he, by all accounts, has a dual purpose: to improve society and make money doing it—if only to show others that it doesn't *have* to be either/or T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboyz1 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 We were talking specifically about Elon Musk. He already made his money. After that he, by all accounts, has a dual purpose: to improve society and make money doing it—if only to show others that it doesn't *have* to be either/or TI think you're confusing what one does with their own money versus what they do with investor money.The creator of PayPal did it to make a profit. The investors expect that. If it happened to make the world a better place. ... great. You won't have many investors if your primary pitch is making the world a better place while ignoring the bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagnabbit Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 We were talking specifically about Elon Musk. He already made his money. After that he, by all accounts, has a dual purpose: to improve society and make money doing it—if only to show others that it doesn't *have* to be either/or TActually - we are just duscussing the merits of 2 things....1 Entrepreneurs that are willing to fail and do so2 Using debt in businessPeople here argued debt was bad, failure was bad. When presented with examples of that not being so, the argument morphed into Elon vs Don.One guy here even went to the extreme of presenting himself as a financial guru after passing a beginner level multiple choice exam (series 7).I get it - you dont like Trump. Arguing that debt or failure are not a part of business to perpetuate an anti Trump agenda is silly.Sent from my SM-A720F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thakkar Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, Dagnabbit said: Actually - we are just duscussing the merits of 2 things.... 1 Entrepreneurs that are willing to fail and do so 2 Using debt in business People here argued debt was bad, failure was bad. When presented with examples of that not being so, the argument morphed into Elon vs Don. One guy here even went to the extreme of presenting himself as a financial guru after passing a beginner level multiple choice exam (series 7). I get it - you dont like Trump. Arguing that debt or failure are not a part of business to perpetuate an anti Trump agenda is silly. Sent from my SM-A720F using Tapatalk I didn't bring up Musk, you did. Anyway, there is honest use of debt and there is dishonest use of debt. Trump engages in dishonest use of debt. That is why, despite being a billionaire and name recognition, American banks refused to lend him any more money thus forcing him to, in some cases, questionable sources for funds. These sources are now under investigation—because they are questionable sources. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 55 minutes ago, Dagnabbit said: Actually - we are just duscussing the merits of 2 things.... 1 Entrepreneurs that are willing to fail and do so 2 Using debt in business People here argued debt was bad, failure was bad. When presented with examples of that not being so, the argument morphed into Elon vs Don. One guy here even went to the extreme of presenting himself as a financial guru after passing a beginner level multiple choice exam (series 7). I get it - you dont like Trump. Arguing that debt or failure are not a part of business to perpetuate an anti Trump agenda is silly. Sent from my SM-A720F using Tapatalk Nobody argued that debt is bad, a failure. People argued that trump is using chapter 11 as a means to do business in stead of helping businesses to restructure. He used chapter 11 and debt to be better of himself, not his business, and in the process he did not care a rat's ass about the people whose lives he ruined in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funandsuninbangkok Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 On 6/17/2017 at 1:26 PM, darksidedog said: So Donald said he was worth 10 Billion and this says he has assets of around 1.4 Billion. With debts of another 300 Million, making it around 1.1Billion. Not small change, but also not 10 Billion, or even remotely close to it. Methinks someone has been lying again. Or is there another 9 Billion floating about out there, he just forgot to mention? You can't read. At least 1.4 billion. Could be 10 bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funandsuninbangkok Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 34 minutes ago, stevenl said: Nobody argued that debt is bad, a failure. People argued that trump is using chapter 11 as a means to do business in stead of helping businesses to restructure. He used chapter 11 and debt to be better of himself, not his business, and in the process he did not care a rat's ass about the people whose lives he ruined in the process. Had 4 Bankrupt companies. Currently has over 500. If you had any business experience you would understand that is an amazingly good business record Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thakkar Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, funandsuninbangkok said: Had 4 Bankrupt companies. Currently has over 500. If you had any business experience you would understand that is an amazingly good business record Six bankruptcies, but who's counting? (The FBI, that's who!) His business record is so amazing, no American bank would lend him money. A multi billionaire celebrity businessman who supposedly has legendary business acumen is unable to borrow money from American banks despite being headquartered in the heart of the finance capitol of the world. Now that right there has to indicate that something's not right with this guy. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funandsuninbangkok Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 600 million in income for 2016 on loans of 300 million. 200% return. Im sure many forum philosophers here will find fault but not bad in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onthesoi Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, funandsuninbangkok said: 600 million in income for 2016 on loans of 300 million. 200% return. Im sure many forum philosophers here will find fault but not bad in my opinion Sorry to find fault, but is it not 100% return? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iReason Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, onthesoi said: Sorry to find fault, but is it not 100% return? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funandsuninbangkok Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 19 minutes ago, Thakkar said: Six bankruptcies, but who's counting? (The FBI, that's who!) His business record is so amazing, no American bank would lend him money. A multi billionaire celebrity businessman who supposedly has legendary business acumen is unable to borrow money from American banks despite being headquartered in the heart of the finance capitol of the world. Now that right there has to indicate that something's not right with this guy. T Why would you assume he cannot borrow in America? Because he has loans with a German bank? would you assume he can't get a Ford because he drives a Porsche? Married a Slovenian woman , can't get an American? how about you? Living in some third world hovel because things were so great in your home country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboyz1 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Why would you assume he cannot borrow in America? Because he has loans with a German bank? would you assume he can't get a Ford because he drives a Porsche? Married a Slovenian woman , can't get an American? how about you? Living in some third world hovel because things were so great in your home country? [emoji2] [emoji2] [emoji2] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funandsuninbangkok Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, onthesoi said: Sorry to find fault, but is it not 100% return? Only if you don't understand business. Total return is profit - expenses. Borrows 300 million @ 7%. Makes 600 million. Cost of funds 21 mill. Profit 579 mill Sorry you are right. 200% too low. Return is 2700% guy is a genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opalred Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 he is starting to believe everyone is a hillbilly to believe his b/s when the truth comes out in time will find he owes more in loans placed through Putin mob launder through Spain / Arab banks he was blackballed many years ago with USA banks after to many loan faults Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thakkar Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 18 minutes ago, funandsuninbangkok said: Why would you assume he cannot borrow in America? Because he has loans with a German bank? would you assume he can't get a Ford because he drives a Porsche? Married a Slovenian woman , can't get an American? how about you? Living in some third world hovel because things were so great in your home country? After major banks stopped lending Trump money due to his multiple bankruptcies, the desperate businessman started turning to Russian financial interests with close ties to the Putin regime in order to continue funding his various business ventures. Projects from Trump Soho to Trump’s first real estate project in Toronto were subsequently revealed to have been tied to shady Russian business interests. http://www.salon.com/2017/01/07/donald-trump-julian-assange-and-russia-how-theyre-connected-and-how-they-changed-an-election/ As to my living in a hovel, how did you know? Are you that creepy guy in the hovel next to me? If so, gimme back that road kill. I found it first and its dinner time. Thanks. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagnabbit Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 he is starting to believe everyone is a hillbilly to believe his b/s when the truth comes out in time will find he owes more in loans placed through Putin mob launder through Spain / Arab banks he was blackballed many years ago with USA banks after to many loan faultsYup - all started when that rocking horse poop deal with aliens fell through because the flying pigs ate the fairy middle men.Sent from my SM-A720F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 54 minutes ago, funandsuninbangkok said: Had 4 Bankrupt companies. Currently has over 500. If you had any business experience you would understand that is an amazingly good business record So good that had he invested the fortune he got from his daddy he would be a lot richer now than he is. Even more so if the 1.4 billion is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owl sees all Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 To be honest I couldn't give a fart what he has or what he owes. I just don't want him to start another war! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iReason Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 28 minutes ago, funandsuninbangkok said: Total return is profit - expenses. Borrows 300 million @ 7%. Makes 600 million. Cost of funds 21 mill. Profit 579 mill 200% too low. Return is 2700% You are dreaming. You're not too familiar with this huckster's "business practices" are you? Hint: The title of the thread for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler19491 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 3 hours ago, daboyz1 said: I think you're confusing what one does with their own money versus what they do with investor money. The creator of PayPal did it to make a profit. The investors expect that. If it happened to make the world a better place. ... great. You won't have many investors if your primary pitch is making the world a better place while ignoring the bottom line. And yet you are wrong once again. What a surprise. https://www.wsj.com/articles/does-socially-responsible-investing-make-financial-sense-1456715888 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Inflammatory posts and replies have been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onthesoi Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 55 minutes ago, funandsuninbangkok said: Only if you don't understand business. Total return is profit - expenses. Borrows 300 million @ 7%. Makes 600 million. Cost of funds 21 mill. Profit 579 mill Sorry you are right. 200% too low. Return is 2700% guy is a genius My understanding of business goes: £300m in, £600m out = 100% profit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iReason Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 1 hour ago, funandsuninbangkok said: Why would you assume he cannot borrow in America? Because he has loans with a German bank? From the only bank that will lend to him: (And he tried to burn them as well) This Is Donald Trump’s Go-To Lender "The corporate lending arm of Deutsche itself has been shunning him for years since the two sued each other over $334 million loan related to build the 92-story Trump International Hotel and Tower in Chicago (a deal that netted Deutsche $12.5 million in fees, according to the WSJ)." “I figured it was the bank’s problem, not mine,” Trump wrote, according to the lawsuit." “What the hell did I care? I actually told one bank, ‘I told you you shouldn’t have loaned me that money.’” http://fortune.com/2016/03/21/donald-trump-bank-loans/ How Donald Trump became Deutsche Bank's biggest headache "Trump had given his personal guarantee he would repay the $640m." "There was only one problem: the future 45th president of the United States was refusing to pay up" "In the years since then, Deutsche Bank has been hit by scandal after scandal, it was fined more than $630m for failing to prevent $10bn of Russian money laundering – and has paid $7.2bn to settle a decade-old bond mis-selling scandal." https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/feb/16/how-donald-trump-became-deutsche-bank-biggest-headache Laundering Russian money? Oh, dear... Deutsche Bank in bind over how to modify $300M Trump debt "A small detail in Deutsche Bank's loans to Donald Trump's real-estate business has turned into a headache at the bank, as its effort has stalled to restructure part of the $300 million or so in debt." "The issue is a personal guarantee Trump gave Deutsche Bank when the debt was negotiated from 2012 to 2015, according to a person with knowledge of bank discussions." "What makes matters more complicated is that the U.S. government has been investigating Deutsche Bank's failure to flag trades by wealthy Russians who spirited $10 billion out of Russia." https://www.americanbanker.com/articles/deutsche-bank-in-bind-over-how-to-modify-300m-trump-debt I venture to say it's a safe bet Special Counsel Mueller will be (is) looking into this relationship. They've already got Kushner in their sites... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler19491 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 1 hour ago, funandsuninbangkok said: Why would you assume he cannot borrow in America? Because he has loans with a German bank? would you assume he can't get a Ford because he drives a Porsche? Married a Slovenian woman , can't get an American? how about you? Living in some third world hovel because things were so great in your home country? Trump borrows from Deutsche Bank for the simple reason that American banks shun him. If that is not a fact, given his "Make America Great Again" mantra, then why isn't he borrowing from American banks to bring that business back to American shores? Hypocrisy, perhaps? Or the fact that no American bank will touch him? Additionally, Trump had to personally guarantee the loans from Deutsche Bank. If he's such a sterling business man, then why did the bank demand his personal guarantee, something he has bragged about never having to do before? On top of that, the DoJ is investigating Deutsche Bank for moving money for Russian mafia types under dubious conditions. Ah, there's the Don being in the neighborhood of criminal types again. Nothing all that unusual, though. http://fortune.com/2016/03/21/donald-trump-bank-loans/ http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/12/guide-donald-trump-debt/ https://therealdeal.com/2017/03/27/donald-trump-still-personally-guarantees-300m-in-deutsche-bank-loans/ Yes, the Donald...nothing questionable there at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funandsuninbangkok Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 1 hour ago, onthesoi said: My understanding of business goes: £300m in, £600m out = 100% profit Yes, many on this forum would agree with you. Shrewd businessmen! heres another one you'll have a hard time with. Most of Thai real estate investors don't get it either : You put 1 million baht down on a 10 million baht off plan condo. Market goes down 10% before you move in. What % of your investment did you lose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onthesoi Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) 100% Edited June 18, 2017 by onthesoi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funandsuninbangkok Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, onthesoi said: 100% Good now the other way you pay 21 mill to borrow 300 mill. You make 600 mill profit. % return ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onthesoi Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 87% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funandsuninbangkok Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Traveler19491 said: Trump borrows from Deutsche Bank for the simple reason that American banks shun him. If that is not a fact, given his "Make America Great Again" mantra, then why isn't he borrowing from American banks to bring that business back to American shores? Hypocrisy, perhaps? Or the fact that no American bank will touch him? Additionally, Trump had to personally guarantee the loans from Deutsche Bank. If he's such a sterling business man, then why did the bank demand his personal guarantee, something he has bragged about never having to do before? On top of that, the DoJ is investigating Deutsche Bank for moving money for Russian mafia types under dubious conditions. Ah, there's the Don being in the neighborhood of criminal types again. Nothing all that unusual, though. http://fortune.com/2016/03/21/donald-trump-bank-loans/ http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/12/guide-donald-trump-debt/ https://therealdeal.com/2017/03/27/donald-trump-still-personally-guarantees-300m-in-deutsche-bank-loans/ Yes, the Donald...nothing questionable there at all. Wrong oh my financial fudge cycle http://www.laddercapital.com/ Donald's biggest lender. Prime US financial company Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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